Author Topic: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard  (Read 3112 times)

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Offline Bachus

Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« on: April 30, 2018, 07:14:41 PM »

The yammex module comes with 720 sounds, 256 voice polyphony and 4GB of samples..
It adds new sounds to any Yamaha keyboards using Yem..

All you need to do is connect the midi to the Yammex
And connect the audio out to the audio in of the Genos
And then import the accompanying ppf file in YEM

This allows you to play the external sounds in the module the same way as if you would play imternal yamaha sounds..  the sounds are of the highest quallity... just listen to the demo i added to my site..also there is a huge amount of info added translated from German in the first reply.

http://keyszone.boards.net/thread/632/yammex-expander-genos-psr-keyboards

Very very promissing.

All this leaves me with one question..
How can you create a ppf file (which is mostly a kind of XML wrapper) from a module..
Because if we can do this, you can add any module you own and select sounds directly from the Genos screen.
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Offline voodoo

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2018, 08:31:31 PM »
Hi Bachus,

I have seen this V3 Yammex live last weekend. My impression was the follwing:

* It is a normal midi expander sound module as there are many others available
* It has 4 GB of sample rom and 256 voices of polyphony
* It has velocity switching, round robin samples (wavecycling like revo drums) and note off samples
* But it is very weak concerning DSPs, so no good amp sim or rotary speaker effect

The idea of the integration using dummy voices for the Genos is very clever:

* Just build a PPF pack containing empty dummy voices
* When selecting such a user voice, the Genos sends a MSB/LSB/PC command to the midi output
* Now the Yammex is programmed to react to program changes for MSB 063, which is used by YEM for user voices
* The Yammex even understands voice editing messages, so you can tweak voice set parameters on the Genos (like volume, pan, effect send, filter or envelop), and the Yammex makes use of this.

So when you have an external sound module and you know the PC numbers of its voices, it is easy to make a PPF containing just dummy voices that carry the names of the external voices.

Yesterday I made two PPF packs, one for "iGrand Piano" for iPad, and one for "iLectric Piano" for iPad. Now I can select piano and e-piano voices on my iPad easily from my Genos.

If the sound module listens to bank numbers, it is getting interesting, since user voices in YEM are bound to MSB 063, while the LSB is assignable. But I have no iPad sound program that listens to bank numbers, so I did not try to solve this.

Uli
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 08:41:53 PM by voodoo »
Yamaha Genos
Yamaha MODX7
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline soryt

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2018, 08:53:56 PM »
I heard nothing new what isnt possible to reproduce on the Genos . with some "tweaking" and the Gns Dsp's  you get a better sound .
i better invest in original Yamaha voices . ( and i have a Nord 5d too :-)


Soryt  :)

Offline voodoo

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2018, 09:00:57 PM »
All this leaves me with one question..
How can you create a ppf file (which is mostly a kind of XML wrapper) from a module..

Here is a screen shot of the Yammex PPF, which is a normal PPF with self made user voices.

For example: "V3 EP-Dyno54.01" sends MSB=063, LSB=54, PC=01. That's all.

« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 09:02:10 PM by voodoo »
Yamaha Genos
Yamaha MODX7
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2018, 12:22:21 AM »

... The idea of the integration using dummy voices for the Genos is very clever:

* Just build a PPF pack containing empty dummy voices
* When selecting such a user voice, the Genos sends a MSB/LSB/PC command to the midi output

So when you have an external sound module and you know the PC numbers of its voices, it is easy to make a PPF containing just dummy voices that carry the names of the external voices...


Uli

Uli,

Can you explain how to make a "dummy Voice" pack in YEM to install in our keyboards?  I have been thinking of this to call-up the Motif Voices when I want to use the Motif sounds for R1/R2.  In other words, I want to create a dummy Voice pack for the Motif that I can install in my S970.  This dummy pack would have the Motif Voice names and LSB.  Motif uses the MSB 063 for it's Voices and Multis (Performances).

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2018, 12:32:27 AM »
Uli,

Looking at you example: you say you can create a Voice without a sample in the YEM Editor and just assign the Voice a name and LSB # and PC#?  Is that correct?

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline soundphase

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2018, 01:33:41 AM »
 ??? It sounds like : "there is a way to expand Genos sounds beyond 1.8GB expansion limit"
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2018, 01:45:56 AM »
OK,

I have done a test.  It is possible to create a "dummy" Voice bank in the following way:

1. Top Menu:
    Create New Pack
    Change LSB

Click New Pack and give it a name and select an image

Bottom Menu:
    Create Normal Voice
    Select the new Voice and Rename

Repeat bottom menu to create as many Voices as you like.  You can change the PC number if you like to select just your favorite Voices. They don't have to be in the order of Voices 000 - 127

In my test I created 7 Multis for the Motif Rack XS.  Since the Motif uses the same MSB 063 for  all Voice banks and the Multi bank (LSB 68)  this works great for me.  Personally, I would rather have the 1100 Voices, 128 Multis, 6630 arpeggios, and multiple DSP processors on the Motif than the Yammex... which is far more limited.

The one thing that is is important is to create a custom MIDI configuration when you use an external keyboard or sound module.  I'm still working on that and will post the settings here once I've go it figured out.  It involves Local Off, send receive messages, etc so we can use the external Voices with styles or MIDI song files.

More later,
Joe H

PS: There is always something new to learn!

« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 01:50:18 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 
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Offline Tankdave

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2018, 01:48:25 AM »
??? It sounds like : "there is a way to expand Genos sounds beyond 1.8GB expansion limit"


It sure does, but if you don't even know what an LSB is...  :(

I am following though because my 1.8GB is already full.  :-\

Need a cheaper way than this V3 box too.  ;)
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 01:52:13 AM by Tankdave »
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2018, 02:38:14 AM »

... The one thing that is is important is to create a custom MIDI configuration when you use an external keyboard or sound module.  I'm still working on that and will post the settings here once I've go it figured out.  It involves Local Off, send receive messages, etc so we can use the external Voices with styles or MIDI song files.

More later,
Joe H

The Motif has become a very powerful extension of my PSR S970.  I have been working on the integration of the arranger (S970) and the Motif for some time.  There are many things we can do using the 2 instruments together (as one instrument).  The dummy Voice bank was holding me up.  So I will produce a document: "Integration of the Motif and Arranger - A Users Guide.

This will include screen shots of the keyboard and YEM and in-depth details on setting things up via MIDI and a custom MIDI configuration for the arranger. Other topics will include:

- Creating a dummy Voice bank for the Motif Voices and Performances
- Using the Left Voice and OTS with the dummy bank when playing Performances
- Using the Motif Voices for R1 / R2
- Playing the Motif Arps using the Arranger Voices
- Playing the arranger Arps using the Motif Voices
- Using the Motif Performances in place of the Multi Pads
- Other (yet to be determined)

The techniques I will outline will apply to other external sound sources as well (with some limitations)

Joe H
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 03:34:06 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2018, 03:08:00 AM »
??? It sounds like : "there is a way to expand Genos sounds beyond 1.8GB expansion limit"

Exactly, which is much much more important then this specific module (which still sounds great, ad does have some great sounds out of the box)

I own a few modules (motif xs, gemini, integra7 and Prophet 8)..
And i use them way less then i would want to..
If you could set up the arranger to choose voices by name on the arranger this would be great..
And incredible user friendly..

So i am much more interested in the procedure Uli discribed then in the module itself..
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Offline Joe H

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2018, 03:31:25 AM »
Bachus,

Keep in mind that YEM only supports a MSB of 063 for normal Voices and 062 for Drum Kits.  The folks who designed the Yammex sound module with support for these MSB and LSB messages.  As I mentioned above, your Motif XS will work just great but the other instruments may not because of this limitation.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2018, 04:43:56 AM »
Keep in mind that YEM only supports a MSB of 063 for normal Voices and 062 for Drum Kits.  The folks who designed the Yammex sound module with support for these MSB and LSB messages.  As I mentioned above, your Motif XS will work just great but the other instruments may not because of this limitation.

If the convenience of selecting external voices from the host keyboard is of enough importance to you to spend a bit more money, presumably you could use a device such as MIDI Solutions 'Event Processor', which could change the MSB transmitted from the host from 063 (or even 062) to whatever value your external equipment uses, and pass this on to it instead.  It could also filter out any channel or global events that you might not want to send with the note data from the host keyboard.

Regards

Ian
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2018, 04:44:46 AM »
Bachus,

Keep in mind that YEM only supports a MSB of 063 for normal Voices and 062 for Drum Kits.  The folks who designed the Yammex sound module with support for these MSB and LSB messages.  As I mentioned above, your Motif XS will work just great but the other instruments may not because of this limitation.

Joe H

Thanks Joe, makes me wonder why things like this are often limited in usefullnes by the creators..

When you look imside the ppf files, you can see that all the real configuration information is written in XML..  it would be possible to edit this part of the files with an editor...  looks like all thses ppf files do is wrap a shell around the core XML part..

With the right editor, you can edit these files.. takes time tough..
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2018, 04:50:48 AM »
If the convenience of selecting external voices from the host keyboard is of enough importance to you to spend a bit more money, presumably you could use a device such as MIDI Solutions 'Event Processor', which could change the MSB transmitted from the host from 063 (or even 062) to whatever value your external equipment uses, and pass this on to it instead.  It could also filter out any channel or global events that you might not want to send with the note data from the host keyboard.

Regards

Ian

That can also be dome with several PC programs.. 
currently i use mainstage as host for the modules..
Which also works..

But what i would love to see is that the arranger itselves becomes the true center of the setup
Like one would expect from a workstation in 2018..

On top of that as allways i am very interested in the technollogy, and its possibilities
Incurrently donít own a yamaha arranger..  but then, thats not a reason for not being interested.


Thanks for your tip, i think it indeed would work.
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline pjd

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2018, 05:37:36 AM »
With the right editor, you can edit these files. Takes time though.

Amen!

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/genos-voice-editing-yem/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/genos-voice-editing-xml-notepad/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/genos-voice-editing-blending-the-split-point/

Part 2 demonstrates using XML Notepad to edit Genos (UVF) voice files and where to find them.

All the best -- pj

 
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Offline Joe H

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2018, 05:38:32 AM »
Thanks Joe, makes me wonder why things like this are often limited in usefullnes by the creators..

When you look imside the ppf files, you can see that all the real configuration information is written in XML..  it would be possible to edit this part of the files with an editor...  looks like all thses ppf files do is wrap a shell around the core XML part..

With the right editor, you can edit these files.. takes time tough..

Yamaha has used the MSB 063 for many instruments other than the Motif as far back as the 1990s.  Instruments like the CS6x keyboard and  the hardware dance pattern generator RM1x Sequencer- Remixer are examples.

If what you say is correct, then there would be no limitations for certain .ppf files loaded into YEM but we are talking about creating a new pack from scratch within YEM.  If it is possible to edit the .ppi file in the same way you are suggesting, then that would be a possibility.  Otherwise Ian's idea would be best solution... but would not work for multiple external instruments which use different MSB- LSB meassages.

Joe H
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 05:56:58 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2018, 02:12:27 AM »
I made a Dummy Voice file for YEM (attached) with instructions on how to make your own and used the dummy Voice template I created.  Remember this can only be used for external instruments like the Yammex module or the  Motif line of keyboards and sound modules that use the MSB 063 LSB xxx in the Voice message.

It is important to set the LSB right away before you start editing Voice names. and you may want to "Export the file each time you work on it so you don't loose your work.

Joe H
« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 02:47:29 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2018, 02:20:42 AM »
Here's  a screen shot of the Dummy Pack in YEM.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Jamist

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2018, 11:37:06 AM »
This is interesting.  Thereís nothing new about controlling other stuff via midi, of course.  And with the explosion in virtual instruments, if you have a reasonably powerful laptop, you can do amazing stuff without spending tons of money.  BUT this goes a step further, by letting you integrate the voices into the keyboard via a neat bit of razzle-dazzle with YEM.  Very cool.


Of course, $600 isnít cheap.  And the US presence for this seems to be pretty small.  Itíll be interesting to see how it works out.
Thanks!

Jim Dunne
PSR-S970. AKAI Advance 61, Korg Karma, etc. etc.
Oh... and a grumpy old English Bulldog, too.
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2018, 01:44:10 PM »
I only paid $700.00 USD for a good condition used Motif Rack XS, which in my opinion goes far beyond the Yammex module in terms of Motif's legendary Voices, DSPs, 4 live arpeggiators running in a (up to) 16 part Performance.  Lots of good sounds and a full blown Voice Editor allows me to get at the Element level for editing sounds (if I choose to do that). And last but not least, I now can create a dummy Voice bank that I can load into my S970 to call up Motif Voices to play in place of S970 Voices and apply those Motif Arps to boot.

It's a bigger bang for the buck.

Joe H
« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 01:48:02 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline voodoo

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2018, 03:55:57 PM »
Here is my example for the integration of the iPad apps iGrand and iLectric. Works very well.

(In this case, the bank change messages are not relevant. Only the program change messages are used by the app.)

Yamaha Genos
Yamaha MODX7
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2018, 06:36:03 AM »
I made a Dummy Voice file for YEM (attached) with instructions on how to make your own and used the dummy Voice template I created.  Remember this can only be used for external instruments like the Yammex module or the  Motif line of keyboards and sound modules that use the MSB 063 LSB xxx in the Voice message.

It is important to set the LSB right away before you start editing Voice names. and you may want to "Export the file each time you work on it so you don't loose your work.

Joe H

Oops!  I took a look at this file again in YEM... the Voice numbers were NOT in order.  I have corrected the error.  Attached is a new Dummy Voice Template with all 128 Voices in the correct order. Sorry for the inconvenience for those you downloaded the first file.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline markstyles

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2018, 12:46:19 AM »
It looks promising. However I tried to contact them via their link on the site.. I got the message, 'invalid email address'.  This is a big WARNING sign.
Also the fact there is so little info on their site, no demo sounds..  I'm not saying it is not what it is presented as.. But I have been burned over the years, by 'vapor ware'. or by sites, that could not deliver what they presented.

I am somewhat unclear. Does anyone here actually have one?  Anyone who buys this, I would love to hear your evaluation of it. 

Over the years, I have also used a number of external MIDI hardware, Integra - 7, Motic XS rack, Korg M3. While I love the variety.. something, wired into Genos, has it's appeal..  Using external devices, and virtual instruments (thru DAW), is very helpful, but it is extra work and does slow down the creative flow a bit..
 

Offline Marty

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2018, 01:20:14 AM »
Hi,

A German presentation of the Yammex module. Unfortunately mostly speech.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD18Eb8F3tQ
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2018, 04:59:11 AM »
I have working on my Motif Rack XS dummy User Voice bank and so far I pick out about 40 of my favorites.  I've updated the dummy bank in YEM writing the correct Voice names.  I just installed this pack along with my other packs and can say that when I select a Motif Voice to play along with my styles it works flawlessly as if the Motif Voices are part of the S970. Having a Voice Bank installed on my S970 is so much easier than selecting the Voices from the Motif Rack front panel.

   8)  :)

Joe H

Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline voodoo

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2018, 03:43:04 PM »
Hi,

A German presentation of the Yammex module. Unfortunately mostly speech.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD18Eb8F3tQ

I have been there at this workshop. The Yammex does exist and the developer is a serious person. The delivery is scheduled starting at July 2018. So I think we can trust in the product. ;)
Yamaha Genos
Yamaha MODX7
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline soundphase

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2018, 04:37:32 PM »
Here is a screen shot of the Yammex PPF, which is a normal PPF with self made user voices.

For example: "V3 EP-Dyno54.01" sends MSB=063, LSB=54, PC=01. That's all.
So MSB is fixed, LSB from 0 to 127 and PC from 0 to 127 ?

So 128 assignable banks of 128 sounds ? (16384 external sounds ?)

Am I right ?
 

Offline voodoo

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2018, 04:45:04 PM »
Yamaha Genos
Yamaha MODX7
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline Kokoriz

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2018, 10:45:02 PM »
So this YAMMEX thing is a sound module only and does not have styles right?
 

Offline voodoo

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2018, 10:48:56 PM »
Yes. Only sounds.
Yamaha Genos
Yamaha MODX7
Nord Electro 5D
 
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Offline Kokoriz

Re: Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard
« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2018, 09:26:05 AM »
Yes. Only sounds.

Thank you voodoo!