Author Topic: Balanced ver unbalanced wires for genos speakers  (Read 1179 times)

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Offline mrkim

Balanced ver unbalanced wires for genos speakers
« on: April 22, 2018, 08:17:18 AM »
balanced ver unbalanced wires for genos speakers pro & cons what do you think Kim
 

Offline MarkF_48

Re: Balanced ver unbalanced wires for genos speakers
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2018, 09:56:12 AM »
The I believe the Genos and most keyboards have unbalanced outputs, so using a balanced cable will be of no advantage, even though many monitors they are connected to have balanced inputs available. The only keyboard I'm aware of having balanced outputs available is one of the Kurzweil models.
 

Offline Lee Batchelor

Re: Balanced ver unbalanced wires for genos speakers
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2018, 09:42:57 PM »
Quote
The only keyboard I'm aware of having balanced outputs available is one of the Kurzweil models.

...and the Roland RD series. Also, any keyboard with XLR outputs :).
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Re: Balanced ver unbalanced wires for genos speakers
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2018, 04:49:07 AM »
Genos outputs are for unbalanced standard guitar plugs. Balanced 3 wire cables with XLR plugs only make sense if you are not on line level and also in case you have very long cables  (more than 15 m) and are in an environment with "electronic smog".  Mic levels are far below line levels so that is why the mic in on Genos and most other units are XLR/3 pin plug. The innovation of being able to use the same input socket for both types that came years ago was very welcome for many users.

Cheers

Kaarlo   
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline mrkim

Re: Balanced ver unbalanced wires for genos speakers
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2018, 05:21:18 AM »
Hi thanks all i think i got it now thanks kim
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: Balanced ver unbalanced wires for genos speakers
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2018, 04:36:44 PM »
I have tried the balanced XLR outputs on my Kawai MP11 Stage Piano, using a 5 metre cable,
and I perceived no difference at all, other than having 30 less in my pocket.

Like Kaarlo said, they're probably useful for cables longer than 15 metres.

Best Regards.
Abby.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 04:37:46 PM by Pianoman »
Musicians don't retire; they stop when there's no more music in them.

Louis Armstrong.


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Offline MarkF_48

Re: Balanced ver unbalanced wires for genos speakers
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2018, 08:44:32 PM »
I have tried the balanced XLR outputs on my Kawai MP11 Stage Piano, using a 5 metre cable,
and I perceived no difference at all, other than having 30 less in my pocket.

Like Kaarlo said, they're probably useful for cables longer than 15 metres.

Best Regards.
Abby.
With the balanced XLR's you likely wouldn't notice any quality difference in the audio, but the signal level would be approximately 6dB hotter with the balanced versus the unbalanced. The XLR's on pro level keyboards are somewhat intended to accommodate mixing board connection in a recording studio where the keyboard may be a bit of a distance away from the desk and it is run through a snake. Otherwise a DI box might be used with an unbalanced keyboard to make the conversion to XLR balanced.
 

Offline Lee Batchelor

Re: Balanced ver unbalanced wires for genos speakers
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2018, 11:26:28 PM »
With XLR cables, there's also less chance of hum interference and other nasty noise sources.
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline pjd

Re: Balanced ver unbalanced wires for genos speakers
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2018, 02:39:43 AM »
I'm using an ART DUALZDirect 2-channel Passive Direct Box with Genos, but out of necessity -- the Mackie HRM 824 monitors in my studio have only balanced XLR inputs.

The quality of a direct box depends quite heavily on the quality of the transformer within. Using a low quality direct box may artificially color the sound of the input signal.

There are both active and passive direct boxes. The active electronics make up the signal level lost through the passive components. If you go active, then it might be worth considering a small mixer with balanced outputs (more bang for the buck).

All the best -- pj
 

Offline MarkF_48

Re: Balanced ver unbalanced wires for genos speakers
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2018, 04:06:18 AM »
I'm using an ART DUALZDirect 2-channel Passive Direct Box with Genos, but out of necessity -- the Mackie HRM 824 monitors in my studio have only balanced XLR inputs.

The quality of a direct box depends quite heavily on the quality of the transformer within. Using a low quality direct box may artificially color the sound of the input signal.

There are both active and passive direct boxes. The active electronics make up the signal level lost through the passive components. If you go active, then it might be worth considering a small mixer with balanced outputs (more bang for the buck).

All the best -- pj

Very nice set of monitors you have there. I took a peek at the manual and it does seem to show those monitors as having 1/4" inputs which will accept either balanced or unbalanced cables and actually with a properly re-wired cable a 1/4" TS to XLR cable could be used. It would be interesting to try a set of the 1/4" TS cables and see if there is any difference in the audio to using the DI box.
 

Offline pjd

Re: Balanced ver unbalanced wires for genos speakers
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2018, 05:27:44 AM »
Hi Mark --

Thanks for the picture. You're right. I could try an unbalanced cable into the phone jack as long as its a TS plug. I don't know why I thought it was only balanced... I know that I had a noise issue at one point and decided to go with a balanced connection from mixer to monitors. (Possible interference from power cables running nearby?) Now the Genos is the only thing going into the HRs and I could go with unbalanced cables directly from Genos to the monitors.

My HR824's are so old, they don't have the RCA jacks mentioned in the manual. I've had the HRs a looooonnng time.  :)

Take care -- pj
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 05:32:38 AM by pjd »
 

Re: Balanced ver unbalanced wires for genos speakers
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2018, 05:40:32 AM »
With XLR cables, there's also less chance of hum interference and other nasty noise sources.

You are correct, and XLR  connectors (even Chinese ones for  1,50 $ postage included in case they are the type held together with a metal clamp with two screws on the clamp and a third going into the part with the pins) are likely to be a little more rugged than most RCA and guitar plugs. As a fact most famous brand German and US connectors are manufactured in China. I just to day as a precaution soldered new XLR connectors to my speaker cables. I always use L shaped XLR connectors to have the cable coming out downward instead of horizontally. BTW  I always keep a small gas soldering iron in my bag to be able to repair a connector. It is the size of a big marking pen.

Cheers

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting