Author Topic: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing  (Read 8349 times)

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rickbrenner

  • Guest
Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« on: April 19, 2018, 02:00:29 AM »
I am having a problem where the song I'm playing comes to a screeching halt at certain chord changes.  It's only been happening this week, so I haven't done extensive testing to see if it happens with different voices and effects.  The particular voices that I'm using in this case are three different guitars - a concert, 12 string and one other - and a tremolo DSP effect. 

I have a call in to Yamaha - waiting for their expert to call me back.

Wonder if anyone has ever had this happen on Genos or Tyros.  I'm new to Genos in the past month.  Previously used MotifXS.

Rick Brenner
 
 

Offline pjd

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2018, 02:40:48 AM »
Hi Rick --

Welcome to the Forum!

Any more details that would help someone to reproduce the behavior? What are the changes? What is the fingering mode? Which style? Any other button pressing or user gestures when the Genos stops playing? What version of the Genos software?

I know you're frustrated, so I suppress the urge to make comments about jazz chords...

All the best -- pj
 

rickbrenner

  • Guest
Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2018, 10:16:36 AM »
Thanks so much for the welcome.   Frustrating problem.  Yamaha's tech never called me back today - hopefully tomorrow.  I was able to recreate the problem tonight using different voices.  It happens when I have three instruments turned on - right 1, 2 and 3 - with or without accompaniment - as long as I play full chords (four notes on each hand).  If it just play the melody note on the right hand, it doesn't happen. 

The song I was playing around with was "To Know Him is to Love Him" (Parton/Ronstadt/Harris).  It's happens easily in the bridge - E - B - A - Ab.   Right now I have CFX concert grand on 1, D Folk guitar on 2 and Concert guitar on 3.  No special effects.  Previously I was using Concert Guitar on 1 with guitar tremolo 1, 12 string picked with guitar tremolo 2 and steel acoustic finger on 3 with rotary speaker 2.  (Gorgeous sound, by the way).  It happens in either case.

I did a quick midi recording so I can have it for the tech if he calls me.

When I got home tonight the first thing I did was upgrade from 1.2 to 1.3.  Didn't make a difference.

The book says that if some notes don't sound when you play its probably because you've exceeded the maximum polyphony of the instrument.  But it says, 'When the maximum polyphony is exceeded, the least important notes (such as soft notes and notes currently decaying) will stop sounding first."  (Troubleshooting section - P120).  It doesn't say that when you exceed the maximum polyphony that the **** thing quits entirely - which is what happens.

I'd be interested in anyone else can duplicate this.  You don't need to have accompaniment on.  Just play around with with three voices active and play chords and inversions with all four or five fingers on each hand playing notes simultaneously and with sustain.

Many thanks,

Rick Brenner
 

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2018, 11:09:04 AM »
Wild guess here - is that particular setup and chord sequence maxing out the CPU? Doesn't seem likely. This beast is made for multi-tasking in the extreme!

Asked and answered?
 

Offline panos

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2018, 02:13:57 PM »
Hi Rick,
Can you try the same without the sustain button on, to see if this problem will still be happening?
The sustain maybe will make the notes to play for several bars,
so after some bars maybe there are still lots of notes playing in the backround without you being able to hear them.
For example, when you are playing at bar 10, maybe all or some notes from bars e.g 4 to 9 are still playing also and the keyboard cannot produce more notes simultaneously.
Just a guess...

Offline EileenL

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2018, 06:56:00 PM »
I have just tried out these setting and you are right it is a lovely sound. I have had no problem playing four cord notes on both hands and to me all sounds fine. With or without Accoump. What do you have your split point set to.

Offline jwyvern

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2018, 07:49:30 PM »
Hi Rick,
Just to provide further evidence, I have repeated the experience noted in Eileen's post. Meaning no problem with 4 note chording in both hands with and without accompaniment, sustain or auto harmony.
I often play as above with Strings and BigBand  voices so I'd have had some opportunity to run into difficulties before if any fundamental problems existed.  :)
I am puzzled what we are looking for though. What do you mean where you say the song comes to a screeching halt, doesn't that depend on whether you keep playing or perhaps you are playing to a midi song and it's the latter that stops?
Or do you mean all keyboard voices suddenly go silent or maybe just some of them? It would help to clarify. 

John
« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 08:22:34 PM by jwyvern »
 

rickbrenner

  • Guest
Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2018, 08:34:53 PM »
Yes - suddenly go silent.  I'll try uploading a recording.
 

Offline Tankdave

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2018, 08:56:56 PM »
And its going dead "without" any button or pedal being pressed or prodded?

Reason for asking, is I had a host of issues with pedals causing this same issue
Genos, GNS-MS01 Speakers, Rubicon R10s Sub.
 

Offline jsb1999

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2018, 10:19:51 PM »
I had a similar issue, which we discussed on this forum last October, as illustrated by the attached mp3. When lifting the sustain pedal, the currently held keys stop sounding. As best we could determine certain voices (some guitars and EPs for example) have a 'note-off' sound. A sound which plays when the note is released, often very subtle. When the sustain pedal is released the note-off sound plays for any notes which were being sustained. Since these sounds just occurred, they are given a higher priority than any previous sounds, (including the notes that you are currently holding down on the keyboard!) and can max out the polyphony.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 10:22:28 PM by jsb1999 »
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2018, 10:49:24 PM »
I set your sounds up with the Sustain button pressed on the keyboard and did not have a problem at all.

Offline jsb1999

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2018, 11:14:52 PM »
Actually, it's not related to the Sustain button, it's the Sustain pedal.
To reproduce the problem:
1. Select a String sound as R1, a 70s Suitcase EP as R2, and another 70s Suitcase EP as R3.
2. In Assignable - Foot Pedals - Sustain, place a check in the boxes for R2 and R3 but not R1
3. Press the Sustain pedal and keep is depressed.
4. Play every white key from the bottom of the keyboard to the top. (keep the Sustain depressed)
5. Play a chord (keep the Sustain depressed and your fingers on the keys) The strings will play the chord.
6. While your fingers continue to play the chord, release the Sustain pedal.
7. The sound disappears, even though you are still holding down the notes.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 01:18:56 AM by jsb1999 »
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2018, 12:59:00 AM »
The only pedal I can see that you can turn off a part is the Volume or Swell pedal. It is Marked Pedal3 and here you can turn parts on and off. This is not used for sustain. You need to use Pedal 1 or 2 and Pedal should just click on and off and not a latching operation. With this type you can not turn parts on and Off.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 09:04:30 PM by EileenL »
 

Offline jsb1999

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2018, 01:39:30 AM »
Step 2: By 'turn on' I mean check the boxes for R2 and R3 but not R1 in the Assignable - Foot Pedals - Sustain screen.
So that the Sustain pedal sustains voices 2 and 3, but not 1.
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2018, 02:20:34 AM »
Rik,
When everything goes silent how do you get the sound back, does it return without you doing anything after a minute or so or is there something more drastic you have to do?
I had about 3 occasions with version 1.2 where all sound went off seemingly related to a lot of editing and complicated playing activity to check it out. Also I noticed a stack of screens had built up in memory because I kept flipping around from one function to another. On 2 occasions the sounds returned after a short time. On the third they did not. Restarting and resetting did not help. What I then did was turn my separate speaker system off and then back on, and lo and behold the sound was back.
I haven't made much of this because of the lack of detail and I haven't experienced anything similar so far with version 1.3 (and you say you recently updated to v1.3). But feel free to make of it what you will :)
John
 

Offline XeeniX

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2018, 02:24:21 AM »
I think it is not "genos" related, same "problem" occurs every now and then on my Tyros 5. At first I thought it was the (cheaper) M-Audio sustain pedal that I use. But following the instructions from several posters in this topic I can reproduce the same thing,

This post doesn't solve anything of coursed but I thought you guys would like to know it's not only happening on a Genos.

best regards,
Peter
 

rickbrenner

  • Guest
Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2018, 02:26:28 AM »
JS - you are 100% correct.  I'm repeated testing, the problem is definitely caused by the sustain pedal - not the sustain button.  If I turn the sustain button on and keep my foot off of the sustain pedal, the problem goes away, but my ability to control sustain goes away.   The problem occurs with the sustain pedal whether or not I have the sustain button on.  (To be honest, until I started this thread, I had never even noticed or used the sustain button). 

Another crazy thing is that while it happens more often the more notes I am holding down, it does happen sometimes when I don't have many.  And it always happens on a pedal up  (turning off the sustain). 

It's challenging because for the voices where it occurs, I have to learn a new way to play to avoid it. 

Rick

(BTW - 26 hours and counting - no call from Yamaha Tech)
 

rickbrenner

  • Guest
Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2018, 02:29:41 AM »
JS - I downloaded your MP3 and it's the exact same issue.
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2018, 06:52:49 AM »
While JS's test shows an interesting limitation it is very severe and "should"  not be representative of how the sustain pedal is used for musical effect. Normally the pedal is used intermittently and released without eating severely or totally into the available Polyphony of the keyboard as in the test. Even on an acoustic piano, while the notes won't cut out ;), if you apply the sustain pedal for too long while chords and melody are continuing to be played you will end up with a non musical cacophony as all the notes run into one another. So the pedal needs to be used judiciously on the keyboard too. I use the pedal regularly for piano, also Mantovani effects on strings occasionally, sometimes too much when experimenting, but have not had all notes cut out as a result.
John
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2018, 08:23:29 AM »
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and take a wild guess based on my own experience  many years ago. I created a registration where I had ticked the wrong box for the Pedal. Instead of sustain, I had inadvertently clicked Volume. The second I stepped what I thought to be a sustain pedal, all sounds instantly stopped. Might want to check out your pedal settings.

Good luck,

Gary  8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

rickbrenner

  • Guest
Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2018, 11:29:20 AM »
Gary - where would I check the setting you're referencing?   The only settings I made were to choose the voices and add certain DSP's to each voice - and change the tempo.

Rick
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2018, 04:03:52 PM »
Gary - where would I check the setting you're referencing?   The only settings I made were to choose the voices and add certain DSP's to each voice - and change the tempo.

Rick
With your set up in place press direct access, then move the pedal and see what function is displayed on screen for that pedal. Sustain or volume? Also see what voice parts are ticked for it. Normally you would only want the piano part active if a number of voices are playing together.

John
 

Offline keynote

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2018, 08:31:18 PM »
First of all I don't think the problem is a result of running out of polyphony. I also tried to replicate the "problem" but was unable to do so regarding the first setup i.e. CFX concert grand on 1, D Folk guitar on 2 and Concert guitar on 3, no special effects. The CFX concert grand is configured to utilize sustain. So when you let your foot off the sustain pedal all the sound(s) continue to play while the CFX concert grand utilizes the sustain function.  At least so the theory goes anyway. That was my experience regarding the first setup. All the voices continued to play after the sustain pedal was released.

In the second setup i.e. Concert Guitar on 1 with guitar tremolo 1, 12 string picked with guitar tremolo 2 and steel acoustic finger on 3 with rotary speaker 2, I was able to replicate the "problem" and that is because all three voices are guitar(s) which have key-off (note off) effects - when you hold a note over a certain time - when you let your foot off the sustain pedal while the keys are pressed the key off (note off) is engaged and the sounds stop which is a normal occurence in certain situations for a guitar Super Articulation voice. So this is not a 'bug' it is a feature. PS: I'm not sure why the "problem" occurs for you in both instances since I could not replicate the "problem" when using the CFX concert grand on R1.

This is my take on it anyway. It would be nice if a Yamaha representative chimed in to clarify any possible misconceptions we might have.

Mike 
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 08:34:57 PM by keynote »
 

Offline Tankdave

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2018, 09:38:55 PM »
When this was happening to me, it was because a pedal that I believed was NOT a volume pedal was being changed to a volume pedal by what I'll call a "rogue" registration

This "change" was happening way ahead of what I was doing at the time, it was just sitting there like a time-bomb.

i.e. It was not causing an issue until I operated the sustian pedal and then all sound stopped, it drove me nuts for weeks

« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 09:24:00 PM by Tankdave »
Genos, GNS-MS01 Speakers, Rubicon R10s Sub.
 

rickbrenner

  • Guest
Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2018, 09:19:33 AM »
Mike,

First of all, thanks a million to you and to everyone else here who has duplicated my settings and tried to help.  I think you are 100% correct in what is happening to me.  It definitely is caused by my releasing the pedal - essentially trying to use the pedal as I have as a pianist.  Clearly I have to learn a new paradigm for this instrument. 

Since I posted this, and everyone has chipped in with tips and insight as to the problem, I have been using the sustain button next to the arpeggio key and the issue has disappeared.  I still don't feel 100% comfortable not using the pedal but hopefully that will come in time as I learn to sustain more with my hands and with the sustain button.

Thanks again,

Rick
 

Offline Ed B

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2018, 11:04:12 AM »
Rick
You should be able to use the sustain pedal the same as you have for a piano. I think if you use a Yamaha FC4 pedal and assign it to pedal position "one" it should be fine. Use the other pedal positions for volume or other features.
Regards
Ed B
Keep on learning
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2018, 04:26:22 PM »
Rick
You should be able to use the sustain pedal the same as you have for a piano. I think if you use a Yamaha FC4 pedal and assign it to pedal position "one" it should be fine. Use the other pedal positions for volume or other features.
Regards
Ed B
Yes that's a point. What is the type of pedal you are using? It should be a straight on and off switch. Press down and sustain goes on, raise your foot a beat or so later and the sustain goes off. Playing a piano voice like that should result in no problem at all. However if the pedal is a latching type, once the sustain goes on it will not go off when you first release the pedal! You have to press it a second time. There is plenty of opportunity to over sustain if you do not realise this and perhaps run into the problems you encounter. (Do not use a latching type for sustain).

John
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 04:30:14 PM by jwyvern »
 

Offline Lloyd E

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2018, 08:58:04 PM »
Have you transferred Expansion Packs or styles from the Tyros  5 to the Genos. If you have then perhaps some of the presets have these expansion voices on board and if
you do some of them will not play at all because these voices are not in the Genos.  You will see a grand piano listed in voices 1,2, and three. I have had this happen to me
and hopefully this may be the problem with some of your presets. Hope this might help you. Sincerely, Lloyd
Music is the way to go
 

rickbrenner

  • Guest
Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2018, 04:04:08 AM »
Have you transferred Expansion Packs or styles from the Tyros  5 to the Genos. If you have then perhaps some of the presets have these expansion voices on board and if you do some of them will not play at all because these voices are not in the Genos.  You will see a grand piano listed in voices 1,2, and three. I have had this happen to me and hopefully this may be the problem with some of your presets. Hope this might help you. Sincerely, Lloyd


Thanks Lloyd.  I have installed the expansion pack that Yamaha offers for free but none of those voices were involved.  I Think it's the note off issue with certain voice.
 

rickbrenner

  • Guest
Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2018, 04:06:35 AM »
Yes that's a point. What is the type of pedal you are using? It should be a straight on and off switch. Press down and sustain goes on, raise your foot a beat or so later and the sustain goes off. Playing a piano voice like that should result in no problem at all. However if the pedal is a latching type, once the sustain goes on it will not go off when you first release the pedal! You have to press it a second time. There is plenty of opportunity to over sustain if you do not realise this and perhaps run into the problems you encounter. (Do not use a latching type for sustain).

John

I have two sustain pedals - Old FC3 pedal I've had for years and a new FC4A that I bought with the Genos.  Same result with both. 
 

rickbrenner

  • Guest
Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2018, 04:08:46 AM »


In the second setup i.e. Concert Guitar on 1 with guitar tremolo 1, 12 string picked with guitar tremolo 2 and steel acoustic finger on 3 with rotary speaker 2, I was able to replicate the "problem" and that is because all three voices are guitar(s) which have key-off (note off) effects - when you hold a note over a certain time - when you let your foot off the sustain pedal while the keys are pressed the key off (note off) is engaged and the sounds stop which is a normal occurence in certain situations for a guitar Super Articulation voice. So this is not a 'bug' it is a feature. PS: I'm not sure why the "problem" occurs for you in both instances since I could not replicate the "problem" when using the CFX concert grand on R1.

This is my take on it anyway. It would be nice if a Yamaha representative chimed in to clarify any possible misconceptions we might have.

Mike

This makes a lot of sense.  I will try to find out more about it.  One thing is for sure - if I keep my foot off the **** pedal it doesn't happen!

Rick
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2018, 05:18:10 AM »
Rick,
Having seen your reply to keynote I have revisited your setups.
I can get the abrupt cutoff with 3guitars with effects, and also the 2guitars plus piano with no effects.
With the former I can still get it with 1 or 2 guitars active.
Similar results with the other setup although if the piano is the only voice active it behaves (no abrupt cutoff).
So the guitars appear to be instrumental in the problem (pun intended?).
But the message continues to be "don't use the sustain pedal for those situations"  :)

John
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 05:24:57 AM by jwyvern »
 

rickbrenner

  • Guest
Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2018, 05:27:52 AM »
Rick,
Having seen your reply to keynote I have revisited your setups.
I can get the abrupt cutoff with 3guitars with effects, and also the 2guitars plus piano with no effects.
With the former I can still get it with 1 or 2 guitars active.
Similar results with the other setup although if the piano is the only voice active it behaves (no abrupt cutoff).
So the guitars appear to be instrumental in the problem (pun intended?).
But the message continues to be "don't use the sustain pedal for those situations"  :)

John


John - thanks so much for taking the time to duplicate my settings and the cutoff problem.  Glad to know it isn't because I have a defective Genos.  It seems to me that there should be a more elegant and intelligent way for Genos to behave in such a case.  It was be awful if that happened at a gig.

Rick
 

Offline rcyeager

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2021, 09:16:55 PM »
Hi,

I have been experiencing this same issue with certain built-in sounds:

1. Select the built-in 70sSuitcaseBallad voice

2. Hold the sustain pedal down and play a bunch of notes, enough to hit the polyphony limit (256)

3. Hold down a final chord of keys and lift the sustain pedal.

Instead of the expected behavior that the final chord of keys sustains their sound b/c they are depressed, the Genos instead will go totally quiet.  That's bonkers!  It's clearly a flaw somewhere in the Genos.

This has been driving me nuts since I got my Genos over a couple of years ago.  I guess I just learned to live with it b/c it doesn't happen with every voice, plus you have to seemingly hit the polyphony limit.  But lately I've been playing more electric piano voices and this behavior makes some of them unplayable.

Finally took some time to try to figure out what the problem was.  Repeating the same experiment above with the Chorus effect turned off fixes the problem.  I guess this is equivalent to playing the 70sSuitcaseClean voice which also doesn't have the problem.  So maybe that means that the issue is caused by certain effects.  I experimented with varying effects and found that chorus and some other effects cause the problem, while other effects don't.  But the effects by themselves aren't the issue b/c other voices work ok with them.

Last night I discovered that Yamaha is now offering Genos expansion packs for free at their online store.  So I downloaded this pack that contains electric piano voices: https://shop.usa.yamaha.com/en/downloadables/sound-expansion-library/premium-packs-voices/vintage-keyboard.html

When I tested the voices, none of them had this sustain issue.

I've found several built-in voices in Genos experience this issue...various electric piano, guitar, and string voices.

The workaround seems to be to find expansion voices and load them as replacements to the built-in voices.  I'm now scouring eBay and other online stores to find replacements for the voices I most commonly use that have this issue.

Hope this info is helpful.  The Genos is a wonderful instrument, but this issue has been driving me nuts and causing me lots of anger when I play...nothing worse than the instrument cutting out and ruining an otherwise beautiful performance.
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #34 on: August 03, 2021, 08:28:13 PM »
Hi
 I tried that
Play a bunch of notes then lift the sustain and the sustain cuts completely off and does not carry on.
Play a bunch of notes and make sure you hit the notes and leave your hands on a little longer as it is sustain and then it carries on. During that slowly lift you foot off the pedal. That worked for me.
I think that we all have to learn nuances similar to bending guitars and making the resonator guitar slides and sax trills. All takes time.
I think the main man here may be getting nasty problems which Yamaha can sort out for him
Sustain has to be what it says or notes will get jumbled in the musical sense.
The style is unaffected. The band plays on!! ;D


All the best
John :)
« Last Edit: August 03, 2021, 08:34:08 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline tyros2009

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2021, 02:54:32 AM »
Seems to me that Genos has a lots of software bugs (my career was in software / firmware development, i.e. writing codes to run machines). I have plays a lot of Yamaha keyboards from cheap ones to Tyros3 / Tyros4 and NEVER had this kind of issues. Genos software is getting more complex. However, any bug like this is not acceptable.
I ordered a Genos few days ago, but the store tries to ship to me an open box Genos with missing parts. So I cancelled that order.
Reading these posts about Genos issues, I have to think twice before order it again from a different source.
Korg PA-50, Yamaha YPG-235, E443, EW410, YPT400, Tyros3, Genos
 

Offline PierreSW

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2021, 07:59:29 AM »
Seems to me that Genos has a lots of software bugs (my career was in software / firmware development, i.e. writing codes to run machines). I have plays a lot of Yamaha keyboards from cheap ones to Tyros3 / Tyros4 and NEVER had this kind of issues. Genos software is getting more complex. However, any bug like this is not acceptable.
I ordered a Genos few days ago, but the store tries to ship to me an open box Genos with missing parts. So I cancelled that order.
Reading these posts about Genos issues, I have to think twice before order it again from a different source.

I completely agree that Genos has a lot of bugs left to fix.
Have never had as much trouble with all the Tyros as I have had as with Genos.
But maybe it's just my Genos that is in trouble, and then Yamaha thinks that an update is not necessary.
YAMAHA Genos, YAMAHA MFC10, Bose L1 II-pa,Mixer T1 ToneMatch, ZUM STEEL.
 

Offline Amwilburn

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2021, 10:01:05 PM »
JSB is correct, this is polyphony limit, with a key off sound sample that's basically overriding the held note. This is because Yamaha was using a last note priority in the OS (that would be correctable) instead of held as the priority.

You do *not* need to download new samples to bypass (not fix, until Yamaha has an option for polyphone note priority); just use the Legacy versions with no key off sample. It's not a bug with the Genos itself per se; it just hasn't shown up because there's no S.Art EP with key off sample on any of the other boards (and if we put that exact sound there, the same problem would arise)

Anyway, for now, just grab the legacy versions. Yes the problem is exacerbated when you have 3 sounds with 'key offs' (which the new acoustic guitars on the Genos also have).

I know we shouldn't have to. I've let them know.*



*Who am I? Believe it or not, before the CVP309 series was released, Yamaha Canada had flew out a couple of the Yamaha Japan staff to meet with me, and we sat down for a few hours, and I sketched the flip up lid with the screen on the inside. I also demanded USB A ports, stop with the Smart Media cards and floppy (they ended up putting all 3 in). If you think I'm joking, you can ask Yamaha Canada or Japan. Peter Baartmans knows who I am; and I'm happy to say he's one of the nicest, talented and funniest people I've ever met).

I had *nothing* to do with the chipset (that was simply ported from Tyros 1, with some CVP specific sounds added). But prior to that CVP's used an apothecary table style, multi slat lids (which often jammed, and I thought inelegant) with the screen very far away on a slope on the inside. Yamaha just wanted my opinion on the physical cabinet. And flew me out to Toronto for the product launch of 'my baby'

Mark

Offline Amwilburn

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2021, 06:40:03 PM »
Well, they've replied back to me, asking me for a video of the notes stopping. It's *very* hard to catch; has anyone already filmed this?

thanks.

*Update: (I sent them the mp3 from earlier in this thread; I couldn't catch myself doing it, even though I did manage to break polyphony about 3 times in 30 minutes)

They asked me why this hadn't been encountered before (in 3.5 years); I replied that it would never occur during 'normal' playing: "The reason I suspect it’s not been documented before, is when I’m actually playing I would never play that way (I tap the sustain every bar regardless). But yes, if you intentionally try to ‘break’ the e.piano by overloading the poly, you certainly can. However, the simple fix would simply be to change note priority to held down as top priority (and that only matters because of the key off sample of the new e.pianos and some of the new guitars)."

to which they replied that they'll let this go until Yamaha Canada receives an actual customer complaint (there hasn't been one in Canada yet). Playing to intentionally break poly is different from regular playing.




*Anyone* in Canada actually get this to happen without trying?

Mark

*edit again 8/13/2021
I was using just R1. Using R1 + R2 + R3, I can get it to happen frequently, and I've sent them a video of it. We'll see if that's enough.


But complaining to Yamaha on a forum does nothing. You need to contact your local dealer (we're a dealer across Canada, HK & China) and have *them* contact Yamaha. Proper channels.

Offline tyros2009

Re: Genos Abruptly Stops Playing
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2021, 07:33:39 PM »
I don't know if this helps: I had weird issues with my SX600 when it is connected to my Windows 10 PC with an USB cable.
The PC seem to do something to the keyboard thru the USB cable. So when I play a style (any style), it could sound fine then suddenly the bass part of the style sounds staccato !! Unplugging the USB cable and the keyboard get back to normal.
BTW, I returned the SX600 , not happy with sound quality, went ahead to order a Genos.
Korg PA-50, Yamaha YPG-235, E443, EW410, YPT400, Tyros3, Genos