Author Topic: Genos reference manual UPDATE  (Read 5383 times)

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Offline franksboard

Genos reference manual UPDATE
« on: April 03, 2019, 03:44:57 PM »
the Genoes comes with the owners manual and does not cover the most important things to know. yes you can down load it and for me a pain in the neck to keep running to my pc to look things up.and to print it out is 155 pages,which i am in the process doing now.for what the keyboard cost this manual should be included
with this keyboard because the information in this manual is more important than the owners manual.and it is really should be a part of the owners manual as it deals with operation of this board.what do you think????? and not having to pay for someone else to print it for you.call me old fashion but hate going to my pc all the time and sometimes one is not available close to me and like to grab a manual and when i sell this instrument most poeple want manuals and not giving them a pdf cd. there are still some people that do not own pc's and ipads .i purchase a binder machine now and printing my own book  as i have many items missing manuals and can download and print out in a nice binder book and you can always add any new updates in back of book. i feel its always nice to have a book as a backup and even though Yamaha provided the owners manual the reference manual should come with it as all my Technics kn keyboards came with them up to my KN7000        Please note i do not want to be offensive to anyone.just wish Yamaha would put all the info needed in one user manual to help everyone
and would like to thank all the people on this forum the help they provided me with their knowledge to be greater than mine on this great keyboard and i guess keyboards are more advanced today and need several manuals to operate them and all the members on this forum provide the missing parts of knowledge to operate them  I find utube videos on this board help me more than the manuals

Contact Yamaha and they will send you one free.i had sent them an email and they agreed to send reference manual
« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 01:33:32 PM by franksboard »
 

Offline Roland

Re: Genos reference manual
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2019, 04:32:15 PM »
No way - what a waste of paper ::)

I prefer all documentation in PDF format. The iPhone didn't come come with a 600-page manual either - but just a credit card-sized short instruction and pointers to where to find the details online.
 
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Offline tyrosaurus

Re: Genos reference manual
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2019, 05:34:36 PM »
Not supplying the Reference Manual and Data List in hard copy format along with the keyboard has been the norm for Yamaha for many years, so I can't see them changing now!

When I brought my Tyros4, I downloaded these manuals and had the Reference Manual professionally printed.  Since then I have hardly opened the printed copy! 

Instead I prefer to use the PDF versions because you can use the search function in a PDF reader, rather than rely on Yamaha's often poor indexing.  Often the information that you are looking for is there, but not adequately indexed, so people don't find it!  Searching the PDF can prevent this.

PDF manuals also allow changes to be made at minimal cost, allowing for errors and firmware updates to be taken into account.  For example, the Genos Reference and Owner's Manuals and the Data List are currently on release PO-D0, so if you are currently using PO-C0 or earlier, you should probably upgrade.

Of course it may be that Yamaha are well aware that many owners never even open the Owner's Manual, so providing the others in hard copy would be a waste of trees!   ::) :'(


Regards

Ian

Offline valder

Re: Genos reference manual
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2019, 06:04:41 PM »
So far so good to download the pdf on the internet but it is disgusting you buy the keyboard in Brazil that is a great consumer of Yamaha and in addition to searching the manual through the Internet have to translate to Portuguese which is our language. Anyway, that's it.
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Genos reference manual
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2019, 09:00:15 PM »
Might as well get an ipad and then you have an electronic book that can store millions of books and the rest.
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Re: Genos reference manual
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2019, 11:54:11 PM »
As a technical writer and college technical writing instructor, I agree that a printed version is a total waste of paper and toner. As was mentioned, the word search function in a PDF is far more accurate than the best Table of Contents or Index.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 07:03:31 PM by Lee Batchelor »
 

Offline Gloria

Re: Genos reference manual
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2019, 12:04:12 AM »
AS ANOTHER GENOS OWNER, I AGREE WITH YOUR COMMENTS 100% !  FOR A "TOP OF THE LINE" INSTRUMENT, IT'S DISAPPOINTING AND DISGUSTING!    :(   >:(

GLORIA
"Music is the Universal Language"
PSR Performer Page
 
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Online Bill

Re: Genos reference manual
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2019, 11:10:42 AM »
If they do use a technical writer, they need to replace him or her with a North American writer because we know how to write to a global audience.

Hi Lee

Your Statement is a bit Elitist  :) :)

However why should those people who do not want a printed copy (which will go out of date very quickly) have to pay for it.
These things cost a fair amount of money to print and bind.   Anyone that whats a copy can simply request one from Yamaha and they will receive for free or for a small sum of money.

PDF format is far easier to use.  Look at the Index and click on something of interest and the program will take you directly to the page.  You can annotate things as you choose.  If you wish to have a hard copy of any section or page it is easy to do.

If anyone has strong views why not send them to YAMAHA Direct.

Bill
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 11:34:22 AM by Bill »
England

Current KB:  YAMAHA GENOS
 
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Offline Bachus

Re: Genos reference manual
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2019, 02:47:08 PM »
Hi Lee

Your Statement is a bit Elitist  :) :)

However why should those people who do not want a printed copy (which will go out of date very quickly) have to pay for it.
These things cost a fair amount of money to print and bind.   Anyone that whats a copy can simply request one from Yamaha and they will receive for free or for a small sum of money.

PDF format is far easier to use.  Look at the Index and click on something of interest and the program will take you directly to the page.  You can annotate things as you choose.  If you wish to have a hard copy of any section or page it is easy to do.

If anyone has strong views why not send them to YAMAHA Direct.

Bill

PDF is the only way to go..
If only because it saves trees..

And if you really need a printed version, there is allways the do it yourself..

But ever since i got an ipad, i prefer reading digital
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Offline ugawoga

Re: Genos reference manual
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2019, 05:39:06 PM »
If it saves trees ,you can make plenty of logs!! ;D

All the best
Special Branch :)
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline Al Ram

Re: Genos reference manual
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2019, 06:24:17 PM »
If they do use a technical writer, they need to replace him or her with a North American writer because we know how to write to a global audience.

Lee,
I know you did not mean to minimize other people.   However, your statement sounds a bit patronizing . . .. it seems to imply that people other than North American do not know or cannot write to reach global audiences. 

Again, i know you did not mean it that way and that it can be taken out of context . . . but that is the first impression.

thanks
AL
San Diego/Tijuana
 

Re: Genos reference manual
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2019, 07:04:21 PM »
I fixed the post. No offence to anyone :).
 

Offline Roland

Re: Genos reference manual
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2019, 07:15:04 PM »
Lee mentioned earlier that the manuals could use some improvements. For myself, I find the owners manuals, reference manuals and data lists OK. But only because I can supplement them with help from forums.

Somehow I feel that the current manuals are a result of years of piling and adding information to an existing manual.

My suggestion to Yamaha would be to review that and plan for a fresh start at some point. One manual I really like is Steinberg's Online manual for Cubase. Yes, it is very technical - but I like its approach (also comes in PDF format which is written quite well.) Another help source I like by Steinberg are their own YouTube videos. Using those together with their Online manuals - I have never been stuck.

Maybe here is a good opportunity for Yamaha to work with their Steinberg partner for that.

Cheers, Roland
 

Offline pjd

Re: Genos reference manual
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2019, 09:09:14 PM »
Somehow I feel that the current manuals are a result of years of piling and adding information to an existing manual.
My suggestion to Yamaha would be to review that and plan for a fresh start at some point.

+1

I worked for a software group who just did incremental updates to the user documentation. At some point in time, the team needed to ask "Are our customers still being served by the documentation?" We were fortunate to have enthusiastic tech writers to help us out. Yamaha?

-- pj

 
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 12:51:36 AM by pjd »
 

Re: Genos reference manual
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2019, 09:57:25 PM »
Good point, PJ.

The Genos manuals are not too bad, but I doubt they are written by qualified technical writers. If Yamaha is using a technical writer, then we need to talk! I would welcome the opportunity to speak with Yamaha about this. I'm not only a technical writer and technical writing instructor, but also a Genos user. Yamaha should hire me. They would get a two for one sale ;D.

There is an inherent accounting problem with using qualified technical writers. Management does not see an immediate return on investment (ROI). It's only when the Help desk phone stops ringing off the hook that they see their money well spent. My latest project was with a tech company in Toronto. It took me one year to rewrite all their manuals, which had been written by the engineers and a secretary. Prior to me being contracted, approximately 50 percent of the engineering time was devoted to customer support! After one year, I managed to reduce that to 10 percent. It is a dismal waste of money having your engineers answer product questions that should be crystal clear in the manuals.

I’m not blowing any horns here, but properly written manuals help with customer retention. It probably cost millions of dollars to develop the Genos. I good technical writer can be hired for about $50,000 per year - even less on contract. I bet Yamaha spent far more than that having their engineers write their "slightly less than adequate" manuals.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 09:59:35 PM by Lee Batchelor »
 
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Offline Roland

Re: Genos reference manual
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2019, 03:01:28 PM »
For Lee: During the times I was writing software, we used to say "it was hard to write, it shall be hard to understand" :D  ;D ;D
 

Re: Genos reference manual
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2019, 03:37:50 PM »
Truer words were never spoken, Roland ;)!
 

Offline valder

Re: Genos reference manual
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2019, 06:06:28 PM »
Que os manuais não venham impressos eu aceito mas que venham nas línguas das regiões que os teclados são comercializados.
Todas as minhas postagens aqui são antecipadamente traduzidas pelo Google menos esta para vocês sentirem como é para nós brasileiros receber um manual de mais de 150 folhas em inglês.
That the manuals do not come printed I accept but that they come in the languages ​​of the regions that the keyboards are commercialized.
All my posts here are in advance translated by Google except this for you to feel how it is for us Brazilians to receive a manual of more than 150 sheets in English.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 10:41:04 PM by valder »
 

Offline pjd

Re: Genos reference manual
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2019, 09:35:53 PM »
The Genos manuals are not too bad, but I doubt they are written by qualified technical writers.

Hi Lee --

Thanks!

People on Yamaha forums often complain, "Gee, the manual seems to be written for engineers."

They may be right. As a (now retired) software developer, I sometimes think that the manuals are really the specifications to which the engineers write code.  :-\  Specifications are most certainly not meant as end-user documentation.

Thanks for all of your insights as a pro tech writer.

-- pj
 

Offline Lloyd E

Re: Genos reference manual
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2019, 10:01:09 PM »
Of course it should be included. Price of Genos demands it. Who cares about people who dont read manuals, we are those who do.  Lloyd
Music is the way to go
 

Re: Genos reference manual
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2019, 10:32:54 PM »
Thanks PJ. I think the audience analysis is inadequate for these manuals. Our creed, "Know thy audience" speaks volumes and means, "It's easier for an expert audience to read and understand a novice's manual than it is for a novice audience to read and understand a manual written to an expert audience." (Give me a week and I'll have that last sentence pruned down to an understandable form :)!)

To be fair, the Genos User Manual attempts to address a "novice to intermediate" audience, where as, the Reference Manual is for an expert audience. That's all well and good until the novice wants to jump into the deep end with minimal experience. There's definitely room for improvement.
 
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keyboardpal

  • Guest
Re: Genos reference manual UPDATE
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2019, 08:06:48 PM »
Mabe.................this "magical" new June OS update will include a PDF reader so we can read the manual from a USB stick on the GENOS screen!  There's a novel thought.

I am not holding my breath.

KP
 

Re: Genos reference manual UPDATE
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2019, 01:19:38 PM »
Excellent suggestion, KP, however, a PC screen size is more desirable for the way Yamaha writes their procedures. The Genos would have to recognize PDF formats as well.

I'd love to see PDF recognition for my scores. I do them all in Musescore and then distribute them to the other musicians as PDF formats. I only write chords in, so the scores are compact. If I were to add several lines of musical notes and lyrics, the Genos screen would be too small for large scores. I would need to attach a remote monitor of respectable size, which I believe will be possible after this update?

 

Offline Bachus

Re: Genos reference manual UPDATE
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2019, 02:29:37 PM »
Mabe.................this "magical" new June OS update will include a PDF reader so we can read the manual from a USB stick on the GENOS screen!  There's a novel thought.

I am not holding my breath.

KP

Pdf is not the right format, takes to much resources from the Genos processors who are not meant to do things like this..

However, a fully text based format, could add something
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Re: Genos reference manual UPDATE
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2019, 09:59:05 PM »
Bachus, the Genos already recognizes .txt files. They are inadequate for lyrics, chords, notes, key signatures, and time signatures. Even if text files were adequate, the Genos screen is too small. The PDF file format for a complete two-page score is still very small. Besides, memory is dirt cheap these days.