Author Topic: Fingering settings  (Read 864 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline sugarplumsss

Fingering settings
« on: March 14, 2018, 08:47:39 AM »
I have had T4 five years and have never used the T4 in the manner it was designed.. using Accompaniment mode, and allowing the T4 to play bass lines, and other parts.
I have only used the keyboard with zero ACMP or with just the drum part.

Well I am finally trying the ACMP .. I notice the full keyboard mode

Playing chords with left hand and right hand, I notice there is a limit to what the Yamaha chord coding can pick up.

I tried a 5 and 6 note chord, and noticed the extensions of the chord played in the right hand, were not present in the auto acmp.

This points to Fingering settings,  there are two full keyboard modes,
Full Keyboard  and A1 Full Keyboard.

I am not sure if one of these modes are better for two handed chords

the other thing that may be a factor is the Split Point settings

Any info on this would be helpful .

I use T4 as a drum machine. Playing my own acmp and bass. MIDI songs are my latest interest. If anyone wishes to share knowledge on MIDI songs let me know.
 

Offline mikf

Re: Fingering settings
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2018, 09:33:04 AM »
I use  AI fullkeyboard
 

Offline sugarplumsss

Re: Fingering settings & Split point
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2018, 12:50:50 PM »
Any reason for A1 Full keyboard versus  Full Keyboard?

The Split point dialogue is confusing.. but gradually unfurling.

The S stands for Style.  Is it difficult to explain why there
is Both S+L as one controllable group AND  L ( Lower ) by itself as well as S by itself?
Why do we need the S+L grouped as one.. for convenience mainly?

If using full keyboard mode ( either of them )  what role do Split points of
S  Play?  Seems like a dumb question, BUT  The FULL KEYBOARD Mode suggests
well, the WHOLE keyboard. Do you see what I am struggling to open up for explanation ? :) ;D
I use T4 as a drum machine. Playing my own acmp and bass. MIDI songs are my latest interest. If anyone wishes to share knowledge on MIDI songs let me know.
 

Offline mikf

Re: Fingering settings
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2018, 07:22:58 PM »
AI  generally provides better chording and recognizes inversions better. These keyboards are pretty good on chord recognition but not always perfect. But I have generally found AI to work well enough, as long as you follow my tip below.
 When you use full keyboard settings the split for S is ignored.
You kind of answered your own question on S and L split. Most times people want them to be the same but there can be situations where itís useful to separate.
Like many people I think you may have found your way to the forum without realizing that the home page has a wealth of information - worries through dozens of pages of lessons, tips, etc. You should go to the home page If you donít know how to get there hit the reply button then look top left for the link and a whole world of info opens up. Start with the lessons section and work through some of the lessons  to get a better understanding of the keyboard and how it works. It is much more logical than you seem to think and might unravel some if your confusion. There is no need for example to try to guess what things mean like S and L. Itís all there in lessons or also in the manual. But frankly the lessons on this site are better than the manual for getting to grips with the basic operation except for very advanced data on deep system operation - which you may never need.
You give no info about your playing skill but one tip that you will not find in lessons or the manual - although this keyboard is very sophisticated in its chord response, if you play Ďfull keyboardí you should recognize that these keyboards need good chord information and you need to develop a playing style that provides that. Many people try to play full keyboard reading typical piano score and are disappointed with the result. That is often because simple piano scores are not always great for this. Fake books are better if you need music. The fake book used to mean for keyboards that the basics chord and melody is there and the player has to use their skill and experience to Ďfakeí the arrangement. This meant they were mostly only useful to pros but with an arranger the keyboard fakes the arrangement for you so they work well for all standards of player.

Mike

Offline sugarplumsss

Re: Fingering settings
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2018, 09:46:20 PM »
Thank you for the extensive response.
In my signature it says, I use the T4 as a drum machine - which means I play the T4 as a keyboard player- ignoring the ACMP entirely except the drums. I am a long time, full time professional musician. Comparatively speaking, musical skill ( not computer ) is very high.
After 5 years with T4 I am considering using it as it was designed to be used.

I spoke to yamaha the support and asked can I save in a folder all voice combinations that I discover among the styles. Many COMBINATIONS of Voice R1 through R3  ( I assume Style and Lower would be saved as well... but my purpose is the Voice COMBINATIONS... formerly called Orchestration.) are very brilliantly found in our Tyros.

There are various brass sax Guitar Vibe pad combinations of the three voices, that would take a long time ( if ever ) to reproduce. Yamaha did an excellent job here.
But I do not use OTS, and am an independent sort of musician who wants to control the sounds in the T4, my own way, if at all possible. I know my approaches are against the grain of the Tyros design, but I am hoping for work arounds.

Unfortunately the Yamaha tech fellow seemed to discourage this.
So I am asking here.. I do not believe the Lessons address this.
If this question requires its own New thread category, you are welcome to move it.

For instance
I create a Folder called Voice Combi
When I come upon a style that contains 3 voices that combine beautifully, I want to extract those Voices and Save them to Folder, while presumably ignoring the Rhythm part of that style.  The Lower voice presents some confusion... as I generally use bass in left hand, and play the bass lines myself.
So I am not sure about left hand extraction of the whole style- which contains the much cherished 3 voice combinations.

Then when I am creating my own Registration.. I can pick and choose from this folder a voice combination that I like... actually many choices for that bank.

I am unclear how to do this.
Thank you for your patience with this renegade musician doing things a bit against the grain.

I use T4 as a drum machine. Playing my own acmp and bass. MIDI songs are my latest interest. If anyone wishes to share knowledge on MIDI songs let me know.
 

Offline mikf

Re: Fingering settings
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2018, 12:41:32 AM »
I donít think I understand your question. All the voices used in styles exist in the keyboard so of course you can access and save them. And save them in registrations. You donít need to find them in styles  , they are right there already in the voice section. Nor do you need to use OTS - I never do.   If you are talking about voice editing that is also possible but a pretty advanced function. But I think you are asking something different because putting them in registrations doesnít make them part of the accompaniment and my guess is that when you say  pick  combinations you want the voices to play notes you assign or play. But you donít want the style which uses them? Well that would be still be a style, but a style you have adjusted, created or edited. You can do all this on the keyboard but it is an advanced function. A style is just a midi loop which is adjusted  by the onboard intelligence to different notes by the chords you play. But it is always a repeating loop.
I know you are saying you donít think the answers to your questions are in the lessons, but I get the feeling you need to spend a little time working through what the keyboard does and then you may better understand how to ask you questions. To be frank your questions at the moment donít make too much sense because you need at least a basic grasp of terminology and how the keyboard functions. It might even already do what you want.
Many pro level players use these keyboards, and sound great even without editing styles or voices. Take a listen to some of the songs posted by pianoman to hear different ways. You might also consider starting with very cut down styles - just say bass and drums, maybe guitar and a string pad. Itís easy to strip styles down to basics.
If you are a good player you can very quickly learn how to use this keyboard to raise your game. Donít get intimidated by its apparent complication. I had zero modern synth knowledge but was playing the keyboard pretty well in a day or two.
Mike
 

Offline sugarplumsss

Re: Fingering settings
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2018, 12:52:28 AM »
I was referring to extracting all 3 voices which includes the eq, and FX and volume mix between the 3 voices.
I know I can individually re-save each voice. But it is about the combinations of balance, eq, and FX maybe even Panning... The designers put a lot of attention in these creations.. and that is a part of what we pay so much for these instruments

You are saying you are low in computer aptitude yet played Tyros in a few days well.
I too play it more than well.  I am just trying to expand my knowledge.

I will return to lessons.
Thanks
I use T4 as a drum machine. Playing my own acmp and bass. MIDI songs are my latest interest. If anyone wishes to share knowledge on MIDI songs let me know.
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Fingering settings
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2018, 12:56:55 AM »
I was referring to extracting all 3 voices which includes the eq, and FX and volume mix between the 3 voices.
I know I can individually re-save each voice. But it is about the combinations of balance, eq, and FX maybe even Panning... The designers put a lot of attention in these creations.. and that is a part of what we pay so much for these instruments

You are saying you are low in computer aptitude yet played Tyros in a few days well.
I too play it more than well.  I am just trying to expand my knowledge.

I will return to lessons.
Thanks

I think Mike is trying to steer you in the right direction.  You say you don't use OTS... but that's exactly how you can save the layered Voices or another option is to use registrations.  If you don't want to learn how the keyboard is designed then you will get very frustrated trying to do things your own way.

Regards,
Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline mikf

Re: Fingering settings
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2018, 02:55:18 PM »
Although these keyboards have a lot of functionality, the heart and soul is the auto accompaniment. You started out by saying that was what you wanted to start using and my posts were to help you move in that direction. And this the right direction. If you have had this keyboard for years without scratching the surface of the auto accompaniment you are missing 90% of what these keyboards are about. The rest is top dressing. You went off in a different direction with saving voices from styles so you can layer them in the RH which I think should be a low priority at this point for several reasons :
-Using these voices in a style where they play different parts is not the same as layering them on the same note and even if you could discover any effects Yamaha may have used you may not find the finished effect all that different to layering the stock keyboard voices.
-Discovering the effects applied to a voice and reproducing them is a pretty advanced step on these keyboards and something most people would not do early in learning the keyboard and maybe never find necessary.
-I personally think you are giving Yamaha more credit than I would for work they do to alter the stock voices. Maybe they sometimes do, but itís not easy to work this out nor a key to making the keyboard work for you. If voice editing is the primary aim there are frankly better keyboards for this.
But mainly I think you should put this to the side until you get a reasonable expertise on using the primary keyboard functions like auto accomp. because there are so many other things to gain before worrying about that.
My comment about how fast you can get to grips with all this is because you can already do the really hard part - which is play. That takes years and years for many people coming to these keyboards, while mastering  the basic operation may seem complicated initially but really takes a very short time compared to this.

Just trying to help.
Mike