Author Topic: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700 >>> And now, CTX-3000!  (Read 4961 times)

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Offline SciNote

Okay, so I know this is "PSR" Tutorial, and not "CTX" Tutorial.  But I think it's good to see what else is out there and how it compares to our Yamaha keyboards for anyone getting ready to make a purchase.  And, if Yamaha does review this board, I think it's good for them to not only see what else is out there (as they probably have people employed who do that research, anyway), but also for them to see what else is out there that may be important to their customers.

So, I went back to the music store, and this time, there was something to see!  No PSR-E463 yet, which, as previously noted, probably won't be available for a couple months.  But they did have the new Casio CTX-700, and I was able to get my paws on one to see what it could do.

So, first, the good...

As previously noted, this bugger has portamento!  Maybe I put an overemphasis on that.  Perhaps it was because when, as I was growing up and first getting interested in keyboards in the 1970's, synthesizers were getting more common in popular music, and they'd often include that classic sliding buzz of analog synth portamento.  And while I have had a variety of portable keyboards from both Yamaha and Casio since the 1980's, this is the first time I've ever seen portamento in a keyboard remotely near this price range (this keyboard is supposed to sell for about $180).

I didn't go through each and every sound, but for what I did check out, I saw portamento in about ten sounds.  Of course, it is preprogrammed into the sound.  You cannot switch it on and off, and you cannot adjust the speed of the portamento.  But interestingly, it only works with mono-playing.  If you play chords, such as playing a chord in one octave, then releasing that chord and playing another chord in a higher octave, there will be no portamento effect.  But if you play single notes (and it appears to not matter whether you play legato or whether you release the first note before playing the second), you'll get portamento from the first to the second note.

The overall quality of the sounds are quite good, especially for its price.  As the PSR-E400 series pianos aren't great (unmodified), I would say that the acoustic pianos on this keyboard are at least on par, if not better, than those on the PSR-E400's.  Other sounds I tried, which include the organs, synths, and choirs, sounded, in general, on par with the PSR-E400's.  I did not have a lot of time, so I did not try brass, reeds, or other instruments yet.

There is a wide variety of reverb and chorus selections, including 4 flangers, but I did not see a way to adjust the intensity of these effects.  Certain sounds have preprogrammed DSP effects, like distortion.  And with the distortion that I saw on one sound, it is a true distortion, where playing more notes at once increases the overall intensity of the distortion.

The styles have two parts, like with the PSR-E400's, and like I've been asking Yamaha to do for four years now, they have two distinct buttons for each part.  If you are on the "A" part (I believe they label it "main"), and just want a drum fill without switching parts, you just hit the "A" or "main" button.  If you want a drum fill and also want to switch to the "B" part, then you hit that button, which I believe is labeled "var", as in "variation".

Now, for the not so good...

While the above features are very impressive for a keyboard in this price range, and it looks like a great keyboard for a beginner or for someone who wants to add an auxiliary keyboard to a set-up, it is no replacement for the PSR-E400's.  Of course, it is about $100 less than a PSR-E453.  It might be a more fair comparison to compare it to a PSR-E363, which I am not as familiar with.

But to touch upon some important limitations... First of all, Casio still needs to work on the keybed, or key-feel for these instruments.  While the feel is an improvement over some of their older models, it still felt kind of spongy to me.  I think they're trying to give it a little bit of resistance to more closely approximate the feel of an acoustic piano, but it certainly does not have a hammer-action feel to it.  And I could definitely feel the difference from playing this keyboard, to walking over a few feet and playing the PSR-E453 they also had on display.  In my opinion, Yamaha's key-feel allows me to play more quick and precise than on the Casio's keyboard.  As higher-level lines of this series (CTX-3000 and CTX-5000) become available, it will be interesting to see if the key-feel improves.

Like the PSR-E400's, this keyboard can layer two sounds on the right-hand side and split the keyboard for one additional sound on the left-hand side.  But unlike the PSR-E400's, I did not see a way to adjust the volume of the two right-hand parts independently (which is very similar to how an inexpensive Casio stage piano that I own works -- you can layer two sounds, but not adjust their volumes independently).  This, to me, is a major limitation.  Just as a Hammond organ's drawbars are so popular because you can so easily fine-tune the sound by adjusting the volume of each component, the ability to adjust the volume of the main and dual voices gives you much more control over the overall tone of the keyboard than just being able to layer the sounds at a preset volume.  Also, I did not see a way to change the octave of the layered voice, though the main voice can be adjusted up or down an impressive 3 octaves.

Additionally, other than the above-mentioned reverbs and choruses, there is no way to really modify the sound.  No filters or envelope generators.  But again, this is a much less expensive keyboard then the PSR-E400's.

So, overall, while it is no real substitute for the PSR-E400's, it is still quite an impressive keyboard for the price.  It will be interesting to see how the higher-level models of this series stack up.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 12:00:17 PM by SciNote »
Bob
Yamaha PSR-E433
Yamaha PSR-520
 
The following users thanked this post: Practical Senses

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2018, 12:34:35 PM »
I didn't go through each and every sound, but for what I did check out, I saw portamento in about ten sounds.  Of course, it is preprogrammed into the sound.  You cannot switch it on and off, and you cannot adjust the speed of the portamento.

Additionally, other than the above-mentioned reverbs and choruses, there is no way to really modify the sound.  No filters or envelope generators.

You should be able to turn portamento on/off, adjust the portamento time, and modify the envelope and filter parameters (the attack/decay/release times, cutoff frequency, and resonance amount). However, you can do that only through MIDI messages sent to the keyboard, or played in a song or accompaniment, and I'm pretty sure those messages will not affect the three keyboard parts (Right1, Right2, and Left, or whatever they're called on the CT-X700). But if you're willing to pipe the MIDI to a computer and then echo it back to the keyboard, you can turn off the Local Control and use MIDI software (DAW or whatever) to merge the desired CC messages with the Note On/Off messages being bounced back to the keyboard, thereby letting you modify those parameters-- including the channel volumes for the Right1, Right2, and Split tones.
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
Current controllers: M-Audio Axiom 61-II
Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador; Casio CTK-710
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2018, 08:06:43 PM »
The User's Guide and Appendix for the CT-X3000 and CT-X5000 have now been posted, if anyone wants to look at them. I've only just grabbed them myself, and haven't looked at them yet.
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
Current controllers: M-Audio Axiom 61-II
Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador; Casio CTK-710
 

Offline Jay B.

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2018, 01:03:39 AM »
Michael, can you have a look at the polyphony on the 5000 and post here, kind sir?
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2018, 07:01:24 AM »
I think that screenshot is from a manual for two older CTK models, the CTK-4000/CTK-5000.

The manual for the new CT-X3000/CT-X5000 models says their polyphony is a maximum of 64 notes, or 32 for certain tones.
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
Current controllers: M-Audio Axiom 61-II
Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador; Casio CTK-710
 
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Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2018, 10:55:51 AM »
That was my mistake, I posted in a hurry. :)  Which website has got the correct manual links, sir ?
Anupam
Yamaha PSR-E453, Casio SA 21
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2018, 03:43:22 PM »
I got them from Casio's Support page by searching for "CT-X":

http://support.casio.com/en/manual/manualresult.php?cid=008&keyword=CT-X
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
Current controllers: M-Audio Axiom 61-II
Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador; Casio CTK-710
 

Offline SciNote

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2018, 04:58:25 PM »
That CTX-5000 looks very impressive.  Tones can be edited, and while the main parameters are not much different than what is on the PSR-E400 series (attack, release, filter cutoff, resonance), they do also include a comprehensive vibrato feature (speed, depth, waveform, delay).  If I'm interpreting the manual correctly, the portamento effect is not only switchable for any sound, but can be applied independently to the two upper voices and the two lower voices (yes, they include a what Yamaha would call a dual voice for the split section of the keyboard), and the speed of the portamento can be independently set for each part.  There are various DSP effects with detailed parameters for each effect.  It appears that all of this can be saved in a registration.  Also, each of the four keyboard parts (the two upper parts and the two lower/split parts) can be tuned independently.

And this doesn't even touch upon the multi-track capabilities and rhythm editor that I've seen mentioned.

However, at least based on the pictures I've seen, I don't see any live control knobs, though there is pitch bend and modulation control, and there appears to be the ability to hook up two pedals to control certain effects, as well as an expression pedal.

I'm curious as to what the street price will be and how the key feel will be.
Bob
Yamaha PSR-E433
Yamaha PSR-520
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2018, 11:51:07 PM »
I'm also very curious about how much the CT-X5000 will cost! The CT-X700 is the only CT-X model listed at the online stores at the moment, even though the manual for the CT-X800 was posted last month, so there's no telling when the other models will be listed for preorder.

Speaking of the CT-X800, I'm not even sure it's going to be available in the USA. From what I was told by the admin of a UK site, Casio told him that the CT-X800 wasn't going to be available in the UK, although no reason was given why not.
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
Current controllers: M-Audio Axiom 61-II
Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador; Casio CTK-710
 

Offline keyboardmaestro

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2018, 11:56:48 PM »
In The Netherlands the 5000 will cost around 450-500 euro's..
I believe it's about $500-600 dollars..
 

Offline SciNote

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2018, 06:24:44 AM »
Yeah, that's about what I was thinking.  Maybe a little less, at around $450, but it could be $500 or so.  Makes me wonder how Casio is positioning this line of keyboards.  They have their CTK-7200, which has been their top-of-the line portable keyboard for several years, and I usually see it for about $350 or so in stores.  This new keyboard (CTX-5000) seems to be positioned above that, but curiously, Casio isn't providing (at least that I can see), any live-control slider controls, like what is on the CTK-7200.  On the 7200, those sliders can act as organ drawbars, and I believe they can also live-control certain levels like a mixer, and possibly they may be able to be set to control the level of certain effects, but I don't think they can live-control filter or envelope generator settings (though those features are available through menu selections).  It's surprising that Casio would not include something similar on a keyboard costing $100-200 more.

However, it seems like Casio is promoting the new keyboards as having a more advanced sound source, the portamento feature is new, and the manual linked above indicates that the filter feature now has resonance, whereas I do not believe the CTK-7200 has resonance -- I think it just has cut-off frequency.

And I'd really like to see what the E463 is going to be fully capable of.  We have some basic facts so far, but no details on specifics.  The sampling feature is nice, and so far, I don't see any reference to sampling on the new Casios.  Live control of filter, envelope, chorus, and reverb has always been a great feature -- not just for live playing, but also to more easily "tune in" to a custom sound you may want to save to a registration without having to keep going into a function menu.  And historically, the Yamaha's key feel just simply blows away the Casios -- no comparison.  Indeed, I would really hope that these new Casios have a better key feel than any of the recent models I have seen from them so far, including the new CTX-700.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 06:27:04 AM by SciNote »
Bob
Yamaha PSR-E433
Yamaha PSR-520
 

Offline Jay B.

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2018, 09:34:37 AM »
On the 2018 NAMM Vids on YouTube, Rich Formidoni said the CTX5000 would be $450 in the US. CTX700 will be $179.
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2018, 09:38:38 AM »
The actual price of the CT-X700 is $175, or about $5 less than was estimated. Perhaps the CT-X5000 will also be a little below its estimated sales price? :)
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
Current controllers: M-Audio Axiom 61-II
Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador; Casio CTK-710
 

Offline Robert van Weersch

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2018, 04:15:00 PM »
Some stores in the EU already list it, although it won't ship until the end of April. The listed price (including VAT) is around EUR 450.
The German MusicStore(.de) lists it for 449,-
---
Yamaha Tyros 5 76
 
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Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2018, 05:01:14 PM »
The CT-X800 and CT-X3000 are also listed for about the same date:

CT-X700 | Now | 249 Euros = 305.57 USD (at current exchange rates)
CT-X800 | Apr 21 | 299 Euros = 366.93 USD
CT-X3000 | Apr 21 | 349 Euros = 428.29 USD
CT-X5000 | Apr 22 | 449 Euros = 551.01 USD

Since the actual price of the CT-X700 in the USA is $174.99, I'm guessing the prices of the other three models might also be a good bit less than shown above.

As for the lack of any "live control" knobs, the CT-X5000 has a MODULATION/ASSIGNABLE button that changes the pitch bend wheel into a modulation (vibrato) wheel or assignable DSP wheel, which is something already seen on certain CTK/WK models.
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
Current controllers: M-Audio Axiom 61-II
Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador; Casio CTK-710
 

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2018, 08:10:19 PM »
But they did have the new Casio CTX-700, and I was able to get my paws on one to see what it could do.


Hi! Thank you for your review, it was very helpful!
What is the quality of built-in speakers of this Casio? Casio's speakers always sounded a bit thinner and bottom-less to me compared to the Yamaha's of the same price-range, has something changed now?
And how is the overall build quality of CT-X700 compared to Yamaha?
I'm planning to get PSR-E363 now, so I'm a bit confused with this new Casio (unfortunately, it is still not available in our stores)
« Last Edit: April 01, 2018, 05:03:01 PM by Practical Senses »
Long-term Yamaha user and synth player since 1999
My music on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/PracticalSenses1/videos
 

Offline SciNote

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2018, 06:35:03 PM »
I did not notice anything that stood out, either positive or negative, about the speakers or build quality of the Casio CTX-700.  It had an overall good sound quality, especially for a $180 keyboard.  And I am still impressed with the inclusion of portamento with some of the synthesizer sounds.  But, in my opinion, the key feel was subpar.  It wasn't bad, and is better than some other Casios of the recent past, but is not up to the quality of the Yamaha PSR-E400 series keyboards I've tried.  However, I have not played the PSR-E363, so I could not currently compare the key feel of the two keyboards (Casio CTX-700 and Yamaha PSR-E363).  I would definitely recommend playing both personally, if possible, before making a purchase.
Bob
Yamaha PSR-E433
Yamaha PSR-520
 
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Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2018, 11:17:42 PM »
Found another one review here:
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=nl?sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A//www.bonedo.de/artikel/einzelansicht/casio-ct-x700-test.html

Seems my thoughts about speakers and keybed are unfortunately true.
About speakers: "is quite centered, low-bass and in places a bit tinny, especially at high volume. Here, Casio still has some catching up to do compared to the competition. With the built-in equalizer, which has ten presets, you can adjust the sound within certain limits. However, this can not be enough to console you for the fact that the speakers of the CT-X700 are a bit short of expectations."
About keybed: "The feel is typical for this class. Personally, I find it a bit more spongy than I would like; The keyboard feels a bit dull, especially with strong attacks. "
« Last Edit: April 02, 2018, 11:20:41 PM by Practical Senses »
Long-term Yamaha user and synth player since 1999
My music on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/PracticalSenses1/videos
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2018, 01:58:42 AM »
Unfortunately, I don't think you're going to find a decent keybed at this price point, regardless of who the manufacturer is.

As far as the onboard speakers, I suspect that built-in speakers will always be inferior to a good set of external speakers. Even the PSR-EW400 and PSR-EW410 are lacking in sufficient bass, which is presumably why Yamaha came out with the KS-SW100 (which is not specifically for those two models), and might be a large part of why the highest-end keyboard models (Tyros and Genos) don't even have any built-in speakers. If you think about it, built-in speakers are a way for keyboard manufacturers to give budget-minded consumers an "all in one" solution, where additional accessories (aside from batteries) are optional rather than essential. It's true that the more expensive PSR-S models have built-in speakers, but this might be more to keep in line with what consumers have come to expect from a PSR keyboard regardless of its price point. After all, the "PS" stands for "PortaSound," so a PSR keyboard is a "portable keyboard," which generally implies that you can go busking in the park with it without needing external speakers and a power source to plug into.
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
Current controllers: M-Audio Axiom 61-II
Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador; Casio CTK-710
 

Offline vbdx66

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2018, 02:46:49 AM »
Hi guys,

A new demo video of the ctx 700:

https://youtu.be/aIPXoIc1eVI

The sound quality of the video is rather good. As for the sounds of the ctx 700 itself, I am impressed by the drums, which are far better I think than on the PSR E3xx and 4xx. As for the piano, it is nice, but I like the Yamaha sound better, although on the E3xx and E4xx there is some noise because of the lower quality of the sample. But Iíd say that the Live! Piano of the EW400/410 and the Natural! Piano of the DGX650/660 are better. The audio quality of the styles on the ctx 700 is great, but so far I still like the PSR E styles better than the Casioís.

As for the trumpet, I like the Casio better, but I still prefer the PSR E Tenor sax over the Casioís.

It would be nice if the PSR E463 had pads (multi pads?) like the ctx 3000 and 5000, but there is a feature that I immensely like on the PSR E433 and itís successors: the possibility to mute style tracks live while playing. This gives the possibility to slowly enhance the style, and this compensates in a way the fact that the PSR E series of keyboards only have 2-variations styles (A and B).

For the time being, my opinion is that the sound chip of the ctx series is a winner, but unfortunately Casio keyboards are poorly built in comparison with the Yamahaís. Also, the two live knobs on the Yamaha are great for live playing and they cannot IMHO be replaced solely by the pitchbend wheel (which the Yamahaís also have anyway) and the modulation button of the Casioís.

This is strange, but from time to time another entry level keyboard comes out with some features which the PSR E donít have, but eventually I always come to the conclusion that Yamaha wins in the end. And also, Casio users donít have this wonderful Forum and community of users to help them, as well as the bunch of styles we can dig into here.  8)

To summarise: my next keyboard, on top of my DGX 650 which I will keep for proper piano playing, will probably be the PSR E453 now that itís price has dropped with the arrival of the PSR E463 (I am not very interested in the E463 sampling capabilities, since I am doubting that the samples will be really usable for keyboard playing since for the same sample, higher pitches will be shorter than lower pitches etc.).

The only other keyboard that I would consider if not buying a Yamaha is the Korg PA 300. It came out at a price of about 750 Ä but can now easily be found second-hand for about 350 Ä. And except for is limited set of outputs (it has no proper audio outputs, only the same headphones out socket as the PSR E series, excepted for the PSR EW400/410 which have proper stereo audio outputs), it is a pro keyboard with sounds editable down to oscillator level, as well as pro, realistic styles with 3 intros, 4 variations and 3 outros. And itís sound quality is outstanding, comparable to that of the PSR S770/775 I would say.

So for me as far as entry level boards are considered, Yamaha wins over Casio, at least this time. I would reconsider my thinking if Casio put this new sound chip in a better keyboard with a nicer key bed, track-muting pads and live knobs.... Now, who said PSR E473...?  ;)

Huw, and a last thought about keybeds: at one point I had a PSR E433 and it has a great keybed (I think I know what I am talking about since I played a variety of acoustic pianos and electronic keyboards over the years and I HATE a bad key bed). Interestingly, the key bed of the PSR E343 was also great (one of my nieces owns this keyboard and I played it during one week). I found that the E443 and E353 did not have the same quality of keybed. Interestingly, here where I am living in the South of France, you will very rarely find a PSR E433 for sale, I think people are keeping them because they were really nice keyboards.

Best Regards,

Vinciane.
Past keyboards: PSR E313, PSR E413, PSR S550, DGX 640, upright piano.
Now: DGX 650, PSR E433.
 

Offline SciNote

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2018, 02:49:26 PM »
Yep, pretty much my feelings exactly, though I didn't take too close of a look at the CTX-700's styles.  You are right about the live knobs.  Not only for live playing, but also just for tweaking sounds.  Not to sound like ad copy, but it is just like setting a patch on an analog synth to dial in filter, envelope, and effects settings, and makes it easy to zero in on the sound you're looking for.  And then, you can use the function menu selections to tweak the settings of the individual voices (main and dual), if needed.

And you'll certainly get no argument from me about the keybed of the E433.  I have also played a variety of keyboards, including a Yamaha D80 home organ and DX7 synth, and the E433 stands on its own with no apologies.  I am keeping an eye out for a used one to have as a spare in case I start gigging at some point (and it would have to be exactly an E433, so that if my existing one stops working before a gig, I could easily load my data from a USB flashdrive into the back up -- as you likely know, the USR-file formats are not compatible between the E433, E443, E453, and likely the E463).  There is one on Craigslist in my area, but for $250 US!  C'mon!  That's what they went for brand new five years ago!  And that's after dropping the price from $300!  Yes, it comes with a few accessories, but still... We'll see if he drops the price any more.

And, yes, the keybed of the CTX-700 has nothing on the Yamaha PSR-E400 series.  A little better than before, but still pretty springy and spongy.  I hope they improve the feel on their more expensive models (CTX3000, 5000).  But still, no live control knobs, and not even any drawbar sliders, like on the CTK-7200, so I'm not sure where and how these new keyboards will fit into their lineup.

But, hey, I may wait for the E473, as well!  I'm hoping that, now that Casio has put portamento into a $180 keyboard, Yamaha will get the hint and include it in some of the sounds on their next E400 series keyboard, as I seriously doubt it is included in any of the sounds on the E463 -- but we'll see!
Bob
Yamaha PSR-E433
Yamaha PSR-520
 

Offline vbdx66

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2018, 06:18:16 PM »
Hi Bob,

Yes, same thing I here in France, the few E433 which do come back on the second-hand market get traded for about 200 Ä... seems that this board is slowly becoming vintage  :o

If I cannot find one on Leboncoin (our local Craigslist so to say) at a reasonable price, since I am not tied as you are by proprietary file format issues, Iíll go in a music store to check the quality of the E453/463 keybed (Iíll probably go for the E453 though, because itís price has been dramatically dropping during the last few weeks, and I donít care much about sampling anyway - when a new keyboard comes on the market, on top of the key bed quality, I rather look at the new sounds (esp. Cool! and Sweet! voices) and styles.).

I quite like the DGX 650, notably for its 88 weighted keys and its  Natural! Grand piano voice, but I deeply miss the portability of the E433, as well as its sounds/styles editing capabilities. I am wondering if the DSP section is enough to prefer the E453 over the older E433. I will probably go for the E453 if I like the key bed. I find it sad, though, that a more recent keyboard should have a lesser quality key bed than an older keyboard...

Well, maybe the E473 when it comes out in 2 years will fulfill all our expectations: a nice keybed, plenty of new styles and voices, portamento among the DSPís, editable DJ patterns...  8)

Best Regards,

Vinciane
Past keyboards: PSR E313, PSR E413, PSR S550, DGX 640, upright piano.
Now: DGX 650, PSR E433.
 

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2018, 08:23:21 PM »
Honestly speaking, I am confused right now. The latest video makes me believe that the onboard sounds other than Piano, are somewhat good but also average. I might be expecting too much from this beginner's board, but it is overhyped a lot. :(
I think there is a lot more to come untill we arrive on a conclusion.
Even the LCD now seems to be of a bluish hue, rather than a pure white screen.
Update : Here is a video from Popmusic.ru, they post legit good reviews.
https://youtu.be/yh8M50qht2c
After watching this review, I can clearly say this instrument won't entertain even a intermediate musician. The Acoustic Piano and Guitar sounds good. Styles are above average, but this keyboard definitely outperforms the CTK series lineup
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 09:29:07 PM by AnupamEnosh »
Anupam
Yamaha PSR-E453, Casio SA 21
 

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2018, 06:36:06 AM »

Huw, and a last thought about keybeds: at one point I had a PSR E433 and it has a great keybed (I think I know what I am talking about since I played a variety of acoustic pianos and electronic keyboards over the years and I HATE a bad key bed). Interestingly, the key bed of the PSR E343 was also great (one of my nieces owns this keyboard and I played it during one week).

So, is it better to go with E343 instead of buying E363?
Seems E363 have USB-Audio (only 16bit 44khz anyway) and +20 arpegio's voices but far worse keybed? (plus E363 costs 50$ more). Am I right that they both identical in terms of sound and build quality?

I can clearly say this instrument won't entertain even a intermediate musician. The Acoustic Piano and Guitar sounds good. Styles are above average, but this keyboard definitely outperforms the CTK series lineup

After trying both PSR-E and CT-X in a store, I have feeling, that inbuilt speakers of Yamaha is still better. All video reviews recorded using line-out of keyboards, so you'll probably need addition quality external speakers for Casio to hear all this new sounds.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 06:44:08 AM by Practical Senses »
Long-term Yamaha user and synth player since 1999
My music on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/PracticalSenses1/videos
 

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2018, 07:01:54 AM »
So, is it better to go with E343 instead of buying E363?
Seems E363 have USB-Audio (only 16bit 44khz anyway) and +20 arpegio's voices but far worse keybed? (plus E363 costs 50$ more). Am I right that they both identical in terms of sound and build quality?
If you are a professional keyboardist, and planning to buy some Casio gear, then you should NOT go for any keyboard except the Privia Series. Casio focuses on low cost featured boards, but Privia series has been the best from them till date.

After trying both PSR-E and CT-X in a store, I have feeling, that inbuilt speakers of Yamaha is still better. All video reviews recorded using line-out of keyboards, so you'll probably need addition quality external speakers for Casio to hear all this new sounds.
Actually I got myself a Yamaha instrument only 6 months back, but since last seven years I have been playing around with these machines, and comparing these stuff present in the market. Back in 2013, I was a big fanboy of CTK 4200, which really had a poor sound when compared to Yamaha's lineup. Well, I still today love its design and build, and wish if I could get one for myself, though I admit its voices were too low quality.
Anupam
Yamaha PSR-E453, Casio SA 21
 

Offline vbdx66

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2018, 04:25:32 PM »
@Practical Senses: I see that you have the PSR E363 and I think that for its features it is a very nice keyboard. My advice is more for people wanting to buy a second-hand keyboard as a backup or for a child learning music. I did not try the E363 so I  cannot judge its keybed. But for people wanting a portable instrument to take with them on holidays etc. I think that a second-hand PSR E433 or E343 is an interesting choice.

What do you think of the E363 keybed yourself in comparison with other Yamaha keyboards? I am curious to know.

Best Regards,

Vinciane.
Past keyboards: PSR E313, PSR E413, PSR S550, DGX 640, upright piano.
Now: DGX 650, PSR E433.
 
The following users thanked this post: Practical Senses

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2018, 11:53:47 PM »
What do you think of the E363 keybed yourself in comparison with other Yamaha keyboards? I am curious to know.

I'm keep hearing that keybeds of new Yamaha's (E353 and above) are not so good as before (E333 and below). I didn't have an opportunity to try E343 so can't compare. The keybed of E363 is somehow springy and not close to piano action at all (obviously), not so soft as on PSR290 also. I think the quality is a little bit better than on Alesis Q49 midi-board, which is not so bad concerning the price point:) It can be comparable to Yamaha DX11 but with less tension on the keys and nice response to the touch. The best synth-like keybeds I've ever played in my life were Nord Wave and DSI Mono Evolver, but it's another league :)
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 07:00:55 AM by Practical Senses »
Long-term Yamaha user and synth player since 1999
My music on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/PracticalSenses1/videos
 

Offline pquenin

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2018, 12:05:16 AM »
Hi Bob,

Yes, same thing I here in France, the few E433 which do come back on the second-hand market get traded for about 200 Ä... seems that this board is slowly becoming vintage  :o

If I cannot find one on Leboncoin (our local Craigslist so to say) at a reasonable price, since I am not tied as you are by proprietary file format issues, Iíll go in a music store to check the quality of the E453/463 keybed (Iíll probably go for the E453 though, because itís price has been dramatically dropping during the last few weeks, and I donít care much about sampling anyway - when a new keyboard comes on the market, on top of the key bed quality, I rather look at the new sounds (esp. Cool! and Sweet! voices) and styles.).

I quite like the DGX 650, notably for its 88 weighted keys and its  Natural! Grand piano voice, but I deeply miss the portability of the E433, as well as its sounds/styles editing capabilities. I am wondering if the DSP section is enough to prefer the E453 over the older E433. I will probably go for the E453 if I like the key bed. I find it sad, though, that a more recent keyboard should have a lesser quality key bed than an older keyboard...

Well, maybe the E473 when it comes out in 2 years will fulfill all our expectations: a nice keybed, plenty of new styles and voices, portamento among the DSPís, editable DJ patterns...  8)

Best Regards,

Vinciane

You are french ? Do you know that I can sell you my new E453 for 200Ä ? I love this keyboard but don't have the place to keep it, since I bought the CAsio MZ-X300...
 
Yamaha PSR-S670
 

Offline pquenin

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2018, 01:39:13 AM »
This afternoon I gone to the local store where they sell Yamaha arrangers, and I was surprised to see a Casio CT-X800.
So I have test it my conclusion is :
- the sounds are great but not "fantastic" as it has been said here and there, a lot remind me of the MZ-X300, I think it's the little speakers that don't show their inherent quality, the 2x15W of the 3000/5000 will be welcome.
- they cost too much here in France (the CT-X800 is at 299 Ä)
- the keys are great, love the touch, better than the PSR-E363.
Yamaha PSR-S670
 

Offline vbdx66

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2018, 03:09:58 AM »
Hi,

Yes, I agree with you, Ä 299 is way too much when the E363 costs Ä 175 and the E463 Ä 250.

Speaking of the keybed, would you say that the keybed of the CTX 700 is better than that of the E453, too?

Regards,

Vinciane.
Past keyboards: PSR E313, PSR E413, PSR S550, DGX 640, upright piano.
Now: DGX 650, PSR E433.
 

Offline pquenin

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2018, 05:01:24 AM »
Well it's difficult to say because everyone has its own preferences.
The Casio keybed is smoother, more "shiny" as AnupamEnoshand would say, and the keys have a slightly longer "travel" (don't know exactly how to say in English). Maybe I would prefer the Casio keybed a little, but I have no problem with the E453, I feel right with it.
Yamaha PSR-S670
 

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700
« Reply #31 on: May 01, 2018, 05:17:14 AM »
I won't assume anything before I actually see the keybed. Right now, the Casio CTK Keyboards have a cheaper keybed than Yamaha, but have a smooth finish. I would still prefer a Yamaha Keyboard over a Casio keyboard anytime.
Anupam
Yamaha PSR-E453, Casio SA 21
 

Offline SciNote

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700 >>> And now, CTX-3000!
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2018, 12:23:00 PM »
As my updated title now indicates, I have now seen the CTX-3000 in person.  Still waiting for that music store to display the PSR-E463, but they told me today they are waiting until the E453 sells out (even though the E463 is right there, bulk displayed in boxes).  So, I may have to see if I can find the E463 elsewhere, for the time being.

Anyway, back to the CTX-3000... It's a very interesting keyboard.  Kind of a mixed bag.  It doesn't make me want to trade in my E433, nor would I immediately recommend it over an E453 or E463.  But, if you are getting ready to buy a keyboard and don't have any existing preference for one brand over another, the CTX-3000 is worth a look.

It's about $300 US street price, so it's about $20 more than an E453/463.  The sound is very good -- I would say on par with the PSR-E400 series keyboards.  Especially the electric guitars -- and there are dozens of them -- very good rock/distortion guitar sounds.  Portamento is available and can be switched on or off for almost every sound, except those sounds that have it pre-programmed in -- with those sounds, I did not see a way to switch it off.  Unfortunately, there is no speed control for the portamento -- it is just one setting -- but it is a useful setting.

There are 16 banks of 8 registrations -- for a total of 128 registrations.  Are you listening, Yamaha?  The styles also have four variations, and they can be selected directly by pushing one of four buttons.  I did not experiment with the styles too much, but I checked out a rock style that had great drums and had those great electric guitars backing it up.  There are also "phrase pads", but I did not experiment with them.  There are no DJ or Groove patterns.

From what I can tell, any sound I selected was all on one "voice" -- in other words, none of the ones I checked had to turn on the dual voice to get the desired sound (which is something that happens with a couple dozen or so sounds on the PSR-E400 keyboards).  And, you can save 100 of your own sounds.

This is where it gets interesting.  There are all of the expected sound editing parameters that you'd find on the PSR-E400s -- filter cutoff, resonance, attack, release, chorus, reverb, DSP, and even vibrato and delay.  However, all of these effects can only be accessed through menu selections, which limits any live control of the parameters.  With the PSR-E400s' knobs, even when not adjusting the sounds "live" during a performance, I find that those knobs make it much easier to come up with a custom sound.  Yes, you have to go into the menus to adjust the parameters for main and dual voices individually (as using the knobs adjusts them for both simultaneously), but it is still very nice to be able to tweak the sounds with the knobs.  Also, with the DSP, from what I could tell, you can either switch it on or off, and you can select a type of DSP, but you cannot "fine tune" the DSP, like adjusting the speed and depth of a phaser or rotary speaker effect, for example.  The reverb and chorus, however, can be adjusted, and there are more reverb and chorus selections than on the PSR-E400s.

I did not experiment with combining sounds, but the keyboard appears to have dual voice for both the upper part of the keyboard and the lower/split part of the keyboard.  I also did not experiment with the sequencer, but I recall the specs indicating it being superior to the PSR-E400s' sequencer.

The key feel is another touchy area -- no pun intended.  When I first started playing it, I thought to myself that it felt very spongy.  However, as I was messing around with it, I got used to it.  However, I still feel that the E400's are significantly better.  But it is possible that someone more used to a weighted piano feel might like this keyboard better due to the increased resistance of the keys -- but it is definitely not a hammer-action weighted key feel.  Definitely play it before buying.

So, that's where we are, so far.  There is a CTX-5000 out there that I have not seen yet.  From what I've read, it includes a modulation control button that is not on the CTX-3000, but I don't know if there are any other differences.  In any case, if you're looking for a lower-priced keyboard, these keyboards are worth checking out.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 12:33:20 PM by SciNote »
Bob
Yamaha PSR-E433
Yamaha PSR-520
 
The following users thanked this post: vbdx66

Offline SciNote

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700 >>> And now, CTX-3000!
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2018, 05:38:06 PM »
I've done some more research online and learned a few more details.  First of all, the specs do mention "DSP editing", so maybe the DSP effects can be customized?  I don't know -- when I selected the option to edit a tone, and then selected DSP, other than turning the effect on and off, the only other thing I saw was a setting for a single parameter to select the type of DSP.  And even that was kind of weird -- it wasn't like there were, say, 100 types of DSP logically numbered from 1 to 100.  They seem to have numbers and labels related to the preset sounds that utilize that type of DSP from the factory.  Like if (and these are just made-up, hypothetical numbers) sound number 150 is a distorted electric guitar, you would select DSP type number 150 to get that effect, regardless of whatever the number is of the sound you are applying it to.  And just because there is a "DSP 150", doesn't mean there is a "DSP 151" -- as you turn the data wheel, the next one up may be "DSP 156" or whatever.  I did not see any provision to actually go into those DSP selections and change their parameters, but maybe it is buried in a submenu somewhere.  Or maybe, by "DSP editing", Casio simply means that you can change the DSP setting of a sound.

The specs also mention an arpeggiator with 150 selections (like the PSR-E400's), but I didn't see any controls for it.  Again, maybe in a menu -- or maybe I just didn't notice it.

And, my research does indicate more of a difference between the CTX-3000 and the CTX-5000 other than just a modulation button -- which I would hope is the case, as the CTX-5000 is going for about $150 more than the CTX-3000.  Differences include more reverb, chorus, and delay types.  That modulation button, which can be assigned to different parameters.  It has a set of category buttons that apparently allow you to jump right to a particular category of sounds and styles.  Also, it has a more powerful amplifier.  Maybe there are more differences -- I'll have to see it in person to tell.

One more interesting point -- the CTX-3000 and CTX-5000 both have rhythm editors on board.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 05:40:40 PM by SciNote »
Bob
Yamaha PSR-E433
Yamaha PSR-520
 

Offline vbdx66

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700 >>> And now, CTX-3000!
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2018, 06:30:59 PM »
Hi Bob and thanks for this review.

These keyboards sure look interesting but I am not sure that I would trade Yamaha for Casio. I remember that the previous line of Casio arranger keyboards generated some kind of hype about 4 or 5 years ago (with the CTK and WK), with some of them having a rhythm editor, drawbars etc. But in the end I sticked to Yamaha for two reasons:

1) I always felt that Yamaha was superior soundwise, esp. with the Cool! and Sweet! sounds, even if there is only a handful of them on the PSR E4xx series (albeit a few more since the PSR E453 and 463: Sweet! Trombone, Sweet! Harmonica and Sweet! Classical flute), I notice that I am coming back to these sounds ever and ever again.

2) As far as styles are concerned, Yamaha is a winner, even with only one Intro, two Main and one Ending. Unfortunately the people demoing the CT-X line of keyboards have only demoed styles emphasising todayís hit songs. The problem with this type of styles is that you can use them only for the song they were made for. Iíd like to hear more CT-X demos with pop, Ballad, jazz and rock styles. But I am wondering if Casio will surpass Yamaha in that matter, I strongly doubt it. I very much like the styles of the PSR E4xx series (at least some of them, I reckon some styles are cheesy), esp. in the Jazz, Pop, Ballad and Dance category.

On the other hand, where Yamaha should really pay attention, is the onboard sequencer and rhythm editor. The PSR E4xx and EW4xx should have a 16 tracks sequencer and an onboard rhythm editor, even if only for minor modifications (like changing the main voice in the style, or the volume of the different tracks, of maybe the drum kit). More DSP would also be nice. The DGX 650 has a very nice DSP module and I notice that since I have a PSR E433 again, I am still looking for the non-existent DSP module to tweak my sounds. I know there are a few DSPs on the PSR E453/463 but they certainly not are on par with the DGX 650/660 (even though you can tweak them with the Live knobs of course).

With the CT-X 3000 and 5000 now hitting the shops, we can hope to listen to some nice demos in the forthcoming weeks. Maybe this will help clarifying things about the real quality of these keyboards. I hope we will also see more demos of the PSR E463. My next move will probably be for the PSR E463. The Audio USB recording on an USB stick just seems so handy.

And one question: what makes you like your old faithful PSR E433 better than the CT-X 3000? I am really curious.

Best Regards,

Vinciane.
Past keyboards: PSR E313, PSR E413, PSR S550, DGX 640, upright piano.
Now: DGX 650, PSR E433.
 

Offline SciNote

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700 >>> And now, CTX-3000!
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2018, 08:38:48 PM »
On the PSR-E433, the key feel is second to none in its price range, and the live control knobs give easier access to the reverb, chorus, filter, and envelope generator -- not just for live playing, but also for sound creation.  Those features are important to me.  With the key feel, especially.  The Casio just seems to have a spongy feel to me, though it least it feels of higher quality compared to their older models and doesn't make the cheap plastic sounds that their earlier models did.

But honestly, that CTX-3000 has some very impressive sounds, and I love that portamento feature.  If I didn't have any keyboard and was shopping for the first time, and if the E433 was a current model, I would have to give it some thought as to which one to buy, though I think the key feel and knob control would still win me over on the E433.  Since the E453 and E463 add DSP, as well as additional polyphony and (on the E463) sampling, the scales probably tip to the Yamahas more easily there.
Bob
Yamaha PSR-E433
Yamaha PSR-520
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700 >>> And now, CTX-3000!
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2018, 10:49:35 PM »
I haven't watched it yet, but there's a 3-hour (yes, hour) video of someone unboxing and demoing a CT-X5000 here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFtf-vR7IZg
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
Current controllers: M-Audio Axiom 61-II
Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador; Casio CTK-710
 

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700 >>> And now, CTX-3000!
« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2018, 02:55:18 AM »
I skipped that 3hour long video for most of the part to watch the styles, and after watching that I conclude that Yamaha gigs are still unmatched.
Anupam
Yamaha PSR-E453, Casio SA 21
 

Offline SciNote

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700 >>> And now, CTX-3000!
« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2018, 04:15:47 AM »
Remember when YouTube videos were limited to ten minutes (lol) ?

Anyway, I realized something else about that Casio.  As I was making edits to the selected sound, such as changing filter and envelope settings, I had to do so from a menu.  When I was done, I had to hit an "exit" button, and when I did, it asked me if I wanted to save my settings.  I selected "no", but upon thinking about it, I believe that the only way to save these types of changes to your sound is to save the new, edited sound into one of the 100 available user tones.  And, if I am not mistaken, my old Casio CTK-691 works the same way.

Why is that important?  Well, on our Yamahas, when we make changes to the filter, envelope, and other settings, we can do those changes to the main and dual voices that are selected (and to a lesser extent, also the split voice), and then save all of those changes to a registration without having to create a special user tone for each edited sound (which is not possible on our keyboards, anyway).  So, imagine that you want to make four registrations, each involving, say, a piano sound with different filter, envelope, chorus, and reverb characteristics.  On our keyboards, we call up the piano sound (along with any other dual or split sounds we want), make the tonal changes, then save it all to a registration.

On the Casio, you first have to create new user tones for each new piano sound, with the new filter, envelope, etc. parameters, that you want.  And then, you store those new user tones as part of your registrations.  In this example, that would mean that you would need to use up four of the available 100 user tones for this purpose.  If your registrations had any other sounds that you wanted to customize (meaning if you also wanted to combine these piano tones with other tones that you also want to edit), then each of those tones would also require their own user tone, using even more of the 100 slots that are available.

That may or may not be a big deal, but it would seem like -- especially with 128 available registrations -- you would quickly use up the available user tones, unless the majority of your registrations were using the factory tones with no edits.  And if you ran out of user tones and starting writing over existing ones to save new user tones, then of course, any registrations using the existing tones (that you are now changing) would also be changed.

I may have to take another look at this, but I did not see any way to just simply alter the tonal characteristics of voices in registrations and simply store those changes to a registration without needing to make new user tones.  If this is as it seems, then that seems like a disadvantage to me.  However, I know there is a mixer function, and I think that certain functions, like the amount of chorus and reverb, can be adjusted on the mixer (but I don't believe filter or envelope can be adjusted on the mixer).  If the mixer settings can be saved to a registration, that would at least give some limited way to save some tonal adjustments without having to create new user tones, but it would be limited -- kind of like what we can adjust with a PSR-E400s' split voice.

Of course, the advantage of all this is that these new user tones, with filter, envelope, and other edits, could also be used as split voices, whereas our keyboards do not allow any filter or envelope changes for the split voice.  It's a tradeoff!
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 04:33:07 AM by SciNote »
Bob
Yamaha PSR-E433
Yamaha PSR-520
 

Offline pquenin

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700 >>> And now, CTX-3000!
« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2018, 08:50:30 PM »
I'm not sure that you have to store the edited tone on the Casio before saving a registration... But you may be right...
I prefer store edited tones as tones rather that registrations.
I have played in a shop in Lyon with the CT-X5000 and having owned a Casio MZ-X300 I can say that the news sounds of the new CT-X line come from the MZ-X line, with the same conclusions for me :
- better sounds on the Casio that on the PSR-E serie,
- better sound on the PSR-S that on the Casio (in particular the guitar sounds) but the synth sounds are still better on the Casio.

The keybeb what great on the CT-X5000 (smoother and less noisy that on my Yamaha PSR-E453 and PSR-S670).
The speakers are more powerfull than on the PSR-S670.
But the body of the instrument gives the impression of a cheaper keyboard.

Regarding the CT-X3000 I think it can be compared to the PSR-E453/PSR-E463, but is overall a better choice than the Yamahas.
Yamaha PSR-S670
 

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700 >>> And now, CTX-3000!
« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2018, 02:29:04 AM »
CT-X 5000 is here, and well, being an arranger keyboard, it fails to deliver a decent accompaniment section. The best feature of the keyboard is its new Piano patches. Sadly, it is the only good feature in this keyboard. But definitely it is a step over CTK series. Definitely Yamaha needs to work on its EP section of PSR Exxx keyboards.
 Also I found that the design is much better than before, but would that help much in sales ? I found people confused with this keyboard, they showed mixed reactions on social platforms. Waiting for the global launch of this awesome gig though.
Anupam
Yamaha PSR-E453, Casio SA 21
 

Offline SciNote

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700 >>> And now, CTX-3000!
« Reply #41 on: June 09, 2018, 04:19:08 AM »
I actually found the CTX-3000/5000 manual online, and it looks like I was wrong about a couple things.  First of all, it IS possible to edit the DSP's and create your own settings.  I still don't fully understand the process, but it looks like there are 28 basic DSP features, such as phaser and rotary speaker, and you can edit quite a few parameters related to each feature.

Also, the speed of the portamento CAN be changed.  And in fact, it appears that all of the different parts you're playing -- the two upper voices and the two lower (split) voices -- can have their own portamento speeds.

However, the built in sequencer has an important limitation.  It has 17 tracks -- they're labeled as one system track, and 16 solo tracks.  With the system track, it basically records what you're playing on the keyboard, including the two upper voices and the two lower/split voices, which is great and something we cannot do with the PSR-E400s' sequencer.  But with the 16 solo tracks, they only record what is set as the Upper 1 voice, which is like the PSR-E400s' main voice.

This means that, if you set up an intricate orchestral patch/sound using the Upper 1 and Upper 2 voices, like we would do to combine different sounds using main and dual voices to get a more lush and complex sound, and save it to a registration, you can only record that entire sound on the one system track.  The 16 solo tracks would only record the Upper 1 part of the sound.

Clearly, Casio is treating the registrations more as a performance feature than as a way to store complicated patches used for recording.  So, except for recording to the one system track, if you did have a sound with Upper 1 and Upper 2 (like main and dual voice) components that you wanted to use while recording a multi-track song, you would either have to set up the two components of the sound (the sounds you'd want for Upper 1 and Upper 2) separately as user tones, and then call those user tones up one at a time, and then record yourself playing the same melody twice, once each on two separate sequencer tracks with the two user tones, so that the playback would have both sounds playing together.  Or, you'd just have to incorporate a DAW and just record tracks using the complex registrations to the DAW.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 04:22:55 AM by SciNote »
Bob
Yamaha PSR-E433
Yamaha PSR-520
 
The following users thanked this post: vbdx66

Offline vbdx66

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700 >>> And now, CTX-3000!
« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2018, 09:06:19 PM »
Hi to all,

Here is another video by Jeremy See where he is comparing the CT-X 700 with the PSR E363 and E 463:

https://youtu.be/eB3un92Rfbs

He got an interesting idea for this video: he is using the Yamaha Grand Piano CFX piano sample of the Yamaha Clavinova CLP 675 as a reference point for the CT-X 700 and the PSR E363 and E463 piano voices.

Needless to say, the Clavinova kills the three smaller keyboards. But IMHO the PSR E series beats the Casio CT-X 700 as far as acoustic pianos are concerned.

Where I was surprised is that to my ears at least, when digitally recorded, the PSR E363 grand piano voice sounds as good as the PSR E463 patch, so Iíd like to get your opinion about that (needless to say the PSR E463 has much better speakers than the E363 so when played through the onboard speakers the E463 piano sounds better than on the E363).

I also find that although there was much ado about the CT-X aix soundchip, the Sweet! Saxophone of the Yamahaís, for instance, sounds much better than the saxophone of the Casio.

I am very curious to hear what other forum members are thinking about this video  8)

Regards,

Vinciane.
Past keyboards: PSR E313, PSR E413, PSR S550, DGX 640, upright piano.
Now: DGX 650, PSR E433.
 

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700 >>> And now, CTX-3000!
« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2018, 03:53:09 AM »
Grand piano sample of E363 and E463 sound quite distinctively different, I believe the parameters for the factory preset voice have been tweaked, perhaps the attack and release. And I strongly feel, this is a case for most of the preset voices as shown in the video, even though it is a minor difference. But the E463 sounds more realistic than E363 and E463 has got this extra bass. (I was not expecting this comparison, though)
Definitely Casio has an edge over Yamaha for putting in some great EPs, but no good styles at all !
Anupam
Yamaha PSR-E453, Casio SA 21
 

Offline vbdx66

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700 >>> And now, CTX-3000!
« Reply #44 on: June 19, 2018, 04:52:52 AM »
@Anupam:

Well, this is exactly the point. What is the use of an arranger keyboard if the styles are of poor quality?

I personally feel that Casio EPs are punchier and Yamaha EPs mellower ; I still like the Yamahaís better, but my opinion might be biased from having played Yamahaís for too long.

Best Regards,

Vinciane.
Past keyboards: PSR E313, PSR E413, PSR S550, DGX 640, upright piano.
Now: DGX 650, PSR E433.
 

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700 >>> And now, CTX-3000!
« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2018, 06:52:38 PM »
Casio really should reconsider price point of CTX-700 in Europe.
With a price similar to PSR-E453and sound/functionality like PSR-E363 there's no point to buy CTX-700. 
Long-term Yamaha user and synth player since 1999
My music on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/PracticalSenses1/videos
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700 >>> And now, CTX-3000!
« Reply #46 on: July 04, 2018, 11:52:42 AM »
I was just downloading the CT-X documents to my iPad when I saw that Casio had released the MIDI Implementation for the CT-X700/800 and CT-X3000/5000 since I'd last checked (which was a month or two ago). And judging by the titles of the MIDI Implementation documents, there will be at least nine CT-X models:

CT-X700
CT-X800
CT-X870IN

CT-X3000
CT-X8000IN
CT-X3100
CT-X5000
CT-X9000IN
CT-X5100

I grouped them based upon their shared MIDI Implementation documents (i.e., one covers the CT-X700/800/870IN, and the other covers the rest), and listed them in the order they're given in the titles. The implication appears to be that the CT-X870IN will be like the CT-X800, the CT-X8000IN will be like the CT-X3000, and the CT-X9000IN will be like the CT-X5000, but with additional Indian tones and rhythms.
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
Current controllers: M-Audio Axiom 61-II
Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador; Casio CTK-710
 
The following users thanked this post: AnupamEnosh

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700 >>> And now, CTX-3000!
« Reply #47 on: July 04, 2018, 02:09:52 PM »
Indian models :-)
CT-X870IN will be like the CT-X800, the CT-X8000IN will be like the CT-X3000, and the CT-X9000IN will be like the CT-X5000, but with additional Indian tones and rhythms.
Absolutely hate the fact that now they will bring the same CT-X models with a few Indian voices/styles. This is a kind of Casio's strategy to sell their keyboards in India, because Yamaha has gone outdated in this field. If Yamaha by chance, brings a successor to I455/I425, then it would take over the market by storm, but they aren't interested as it seems !
A lot of Indians on internet ask about the successor of I455, which Yamaha isn't listening to, and this has made Casio a good survivor in market. I don't understand why Yamaha India is still manufacturing I455, because its styles and hardware are outdated and when compared to E453, sound not-so-good enough.
Anupam
Yamaha PSR-E453, Casio SA 21
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700 >>> And now, CTX-3000!
« Reply #48 on: July 04, 2018, 06:06:47 PM »
If the existing pattern holds true, we could possibly see a new PSR-I model this year:

PSR-E403 (+ 22 =) PSR-I425
PSR-E433 (+ 22 =) PSR-I455
PSR-E463 (+ 22 =) PSR-I485 ???
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
Current controllers: M-Audio Axiom 61-II
Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador; Casio CTK-710
 

Offline vbdx66

Re: Update on the competition -- Casio CTX-700 >>> And now, CTX-3000!
« Reply #49 on: July 04, 2018, 06:28:18 PM »
Well spotted Michael  8)

That said, this seems rather strange. Do you think that Yamaha would really stick to the maths? If they are business minded, would they not rather look at the sales projections on the Indian market before releasing a new product?

Also, what would a new PSR i485 have which is not already in the E463?

Regards,

Vinciane
Past keyboards: PSR E313, PSR E413, PSR S550, DGX 640, upright piano.
Now: DGX 650, PSR E433.