Author Topic: Recording MIDI revisited  (Read 4424 times)

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Recording MIDI revisited
« on: February 21, 2018, 04:44:58 AM »
Hi team,

I finally bought a very good computer for running Cubase Artist 8. I want to record some MIDI tracks on my T5 for eventual conversion to audio tracks. Is it just best to perform a multi track recording (Channels 1 to 16) of the style on the T5, and then import the tracks into Cubase for editing? I've done that before.

What I have never been successful at is adding more tracks for piano, strings, brass, and other melodic or backup instruments. How the heck do you do that, since Yamaha refuses to provide T5 specific DAW software. I've never had luck with that. It was so much easier on the old keyboards that only had 100 voices!!

Thanks!
 

Online panos

Re: Recording MIDI revisited
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2018, 05:10:15 AM »
I don't use Cubase Lee but
Why don't you insert the 16 tracks to cubase as midi files and then keep all channes ON on your T5 except channels R1+R3 which are at REC position and play other melodies too.
Lets say the brass+something else.
Then to allready existed 16 channels to Cubase add the new Voices of brass+something else.
so now you have 18 recorded midi channels on Cubase and so on.

The problem(if it is a problem for you) with this method is that you have to revoice and edit on cubase all midi trucks one by one.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 05:12:11 AM by panos »
 

Offline emasters

Re: Recording MIDI revisited
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2018, 05:49:33 AM »
I use Cubase Pro 9.5, and the way I do it is use all 32 midi channels from the T5 recorded on separate tracks in Cubase.  In effect, the T5 becomes a (fancy) sound module.  The challenge as you quickly find, is getting each of the 32 channels you want, setup with the appropriate instruments.  Not easy to do from the keyboard.  So I created a Cubase instrument definition file for all the T5 voices and all the T5 expansion packs.  In effect, it lets Cubase tell the T5 for each MIDI channel, what instrument to load.  In addition, in the first bar of the song in Cubase, I send MIDI setup data, that gets the T5 into a known state/configuration.  Steinberg provides a similar instrument definition file with Cubase, that you can setup in the MIDI Devices section.  Clearly, this is not beginner level stuff -- but it does provide one approach to your question.  Cubase does come with a T5 instrument definition file, that can be setup for each of the two T5 MIDI ports, that let's you select your desired instrument on each T5 MIDI channel, which can then be recorded into each Cubase track associated with the T5.  If you're just starting out, may be best to do some reading in the Cubase manual (MIDI Devices section) and checkout YouTube for folks that have already done this.  It works, but takes some time and effort to configure.  Good luck!
 

Offline emasters

Re: Recording MIDI revisited
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2018, 05:51:42 AM »
BTW, once the tracks are in Cubase, you can do anything in terms of converting to Audio, adding effects, editing, etc.  It's just so much easier in the computer.  I know you were asking about this functionality on the T5.  But if you're using Cubase, it's really much easier in a DAW.
 

Offline Cosmorot

Re: Recording MIDI revisited
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2018, 11:25:07 PM »
 

Re: Recording MIDI revisited
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2018, 02:58:36 AM »
Many thanks, guys! Sorry for the late reply. Ironically, I've been knee deep in live rehearsals, but I will give these pointers a try soon. Many thanks again!

- Lee
 

Re: Recording MIDI revisited
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2018, 03:26:26 AM »
Okay, I recorded a brief MIDI file on my T5, and then imported it into Cubase 8. It plays fine, after hours of cursing at Steinberg for treating all clients as though we are all seasoned recording engineers!!!!!!!!!!! Where the hell is the Glossary for us novices. If the damn program is ONLY MEANT FOR PROS, say so!!!!!!!!! But I digress.

I assume Channels 9 through 16 are dedicated for all things in the Style. That leaves me with Channels 1 through 8 for everything else. I managed to get the Script file to appear in each channel, but when I select an SA Trumpet (for example), the trumpet sounds and so does the piano Ė even though I have the new MIDI Channel set to #3.

Questions:

1. How do I record the other eight channels individually without everything else sounding at the same time. Do I need to configure the Tyros 5 in some way? As emasters mentioned, I should be able to treat the Tyros 5 as a sound module.

2. Channels 5 through 8 are dedicated to Multi Pads, but do they have to be? Can't they just be used for more instruments? Surely to God, Yamaha didn't sell me a $6,000 keyboard where I could only play three solo instruments per score? Perhaps I use Channels 1 through 3 on several different tracks with different Program changes instead??

3. Re: question 2. I tried editing the Program Change with the LSB and MSB values from the Data list, and no matter what I did, my Channel 3 notes all came out as drum voices. What's with that?

Iím ready for Lesson 2.

ThanksÖ
 

Re: Recording MIDI revisited
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2018, 04:28:33 AM »
Another question:

Iím doing MIDI Program and Controller changes in Cubase. In the picture (List Editor), I canít seem to delete the first entry. Iíve tried the Eraser tool or selecting the entire line and pressing Delete. The line stays but Line 2 moves up and is deleted - not what I want. I assume I need to do this for each channel after I get answers to my previous questions :).

Better still, perhaps someone can provide step by step instructions for Dummies on how to insert a Program change to the beginning of any track, since Steinberg refuses to write a manual to stupid people - only seasoned vets of the recording industry.

 

Online panos

Re: Recording MIDI revisited
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2018, 04:36:44 AM »

The default recording parts for each channel are:

Channel 1   :   Right 1
Channel 2   :   Left
Channel 3   :   Right 2
Channel 4   :    - Right 3 for Genos-Tyros 5
Channel 5   :   Multi Pad 1
Channel 6   :   Multi Pad 2
Channel 7   :   Multi Pad 3
Channel 8   :   Multi Pad 4
Channel 9   :   Rhythm 1
Channel 10 :   Rhythm 2
Channel 11 :   Bass
Channel 12 :   Chord 1
Channel 13 :   Chord 2
Channel 14 :   Pad
Channel 15 :   Phrase 1
Channel 16 -   Phrase 2


Regards

Ian

Online panos

Re: Recording MIDI revisited
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2018, 04:49:57 AM »
I don't use Cubase but you could try this,unless someone familiar with the program suggests  an easier way

a)when you record you can press the small buttons under your screen
for each channel to
a)REC position to record everything

b)to ON position to record lets say only R1 channel again and just listen to every other channel which will be at the ON position

c)to OFF position to record lets say only R1 channel again and DON'T listen to every other channel which will be at the OFF position

Then you take just the NEW channel that you have recorded (R1) and put it in cubase.
This way you can record more patterns and sounds in case you record to your keyboard first and then take the midi file and put it on Cubase.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 04:51:08 AM by panos »
 

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: Recording MIDI revisited
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2018, 04:52:59 AM »
Why don't you simply import the Tyros5 Cubase 'patch' voice file which contains all the T5 preset voices plus the voices from all the Yamaha Premium Packs that were available at the time the patch file was produced?

You could then simply select the voice by name for each channel from the standard Cubase menus, and Cubase will insert the necessary MIDI CC and PG events.

You can download the Cubase 'patch' from the page at the following link.  Scroll down to the page to 'Other Downloads'...

https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/arranger_workstations/tyros5/downloads.html#product-tabs


Regards

Ian
 

Re: Recording MIDI revisited
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2018, 04:58:11 AM »
Thanks for the response, Panos.

I'm still very confused. It sounds like you record everything on the T5 and use Cubase only for editing? That doesn't answer how I actually do that. I'm willing to try your method, but I hear of guys who after they record the initial rhythms on the T5 and import them, add a MIDI track and play the trumpet, add another MIDI track and play the strings, add another track and play the guitar, add another MIDI track and play whatever. How the hell do they do it???

If I were to do it your way, can you provide exact steps? Many thanks for your efforts.

There's nothing in this world that crushes the creative mind than those evil souls who create programs only for the top feeders!!!!!!
 

Re: Recording MIDI revisited
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2018, 05:05:32 AM »
Yep, did that Ian and the patches appear perfectly. It's when I try to record a new MIDI track is when everything goes wrong. Here's what I've done:

1. Created a new MIDI track.
2. Used the Programs Bank/Patch to select a SA2 Muted Trumpet.
3. Set the MIDI Channel to Channel 3 (Right 2).
4. Armed the track for recording.
5. Pressed some notes on the T5 - NO SOUND. Tried clicking the Monitor button on the track. NO SOUND. All the other tracks from the style play back perfectly.

What am I doing wrong? At least with your method, I don't need to play in the List Editor anymore. Thanks for that!

UPDATE

As mentioned, I selected the Muted Trumpet. Now when I press the T5 keys, I get drums!! The Channel is still set a #3? On the T5 MIDI page, the lights are coming on for Channel 3 as I play the keys.

« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 05:08:04 AM by Lee Batchelor »
 

Re: Recording MIDI revisited
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2018, 05:13:48 AM »
Something else...the Script file I'm using was in Cubase when I bought it two years ago. I'm sure it is accurate.

There must be other configurations either in Cubase or on the T5 that need to be done. God only knows what they are?
 

Re: Recording MIDI revisited
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2018, 05:47:31 AM »
Hi Lee, how have you got the Tyros configured? In functions, Midi, which template are you using?

Christopher.
If you be a real Seeker after Truth.
It is necessary that at least once in your Life,
You doubt, as far as possible, all things.
_________________________________________________ _______________________
Tyros 5, HS5's, HS8S, Cubase 9.5
 

Re: Recording MIDI revisited
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2018, 06:11:28 AM »
Hi Christopher,

I haven't touched anything on the MIDI page. I tried but just messed things up. Currently, I'm using the All Parts setting (default, I assume). Thanks for chiming in.

To add, I just learned how to do a multi-track MIDI recording on the T5. I saved it, loaded it into Cubase, and of course Cubase crashed as soon as I pressed play. More issues!!!!!
 

Re: Recording MIDI revisited
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2018, 06:19:04 AM »
Okay, progress report - I opened my newly created multi-track MIDI recording in Cubase, and it plays back perfectly - mistakes and all :)!

Sounds like the easiest way to do all this is to just record everything on the T5, and then import it for editing. After all, editing on the T5 is pathetic compared to a DAW.

Thanks to all, and if you have anything to add, please feel free....
 

Online panos

Re: Recording MIDI revisited
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2018, 06:50:21 AM »
Using a DAW is not so easy as like using a Yamaha Arranger,Lee.
Likely Yamaha is co-operating with Cubase to make things easier for Yamaha users.

When I had to use Fl studio (similar to Cubase) before purchasing the s750,
I just inserted the midi file from my Dgx 305 there
and then everything else I was editing them on Fl studio just using my pc's mouse and keyboard to edit the midi and even right extra patterns and music.

Very time consuming, so when I got the s750 with all those styles and voices I didn't need the sounds of a DAW so much, as long as I am not a producer or a composer.

When I have dowloaded Fl studio for first time, I thought I should record a new melody for making things more ineresting.
Took me just an afternoon to think of a simple 6 chords melody that sounds good to me,
but a week of editing and watching videos on youtube to learn how the heck that program works and just the basics.

Cubase suppose to be more easy to learn from fl studio but still needs a lot of time learning on how things can be done.
First time is hard but once you have learned,things are a lot easier.
So be patient Lee, these things are not easy for nobody and there are a lot of ways for doing them.


 
 

Re: Recording MIDI revisited
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2018, 07:43:40 AM »
Good words, Panos - thanks.

At this point, I don't see any other way to work with T5 MIDI in Cubase, other than to record everything on the T5 first, and then import the file to Cubase for editing. If anyone out there is recording perfectly from the T5 to Cubase using the script patch, I'd love to know how the heck they're doing it. There are SO many settings in Cubase and the T5 that must be perfect, otherwise the whole process falls apart.

I know there are lots of people on this forum who would love to be able to record in Cubase without all the hassles! Yamaha designed a recording interface for the Motif series. Why not the Tyros series? I'll tell you why - they still think the vast majority of T5 users sit in their living rooms as hobby players. I respect that idea and those who enjoy the T5 just at home. On the other hand, Yamaha touts the T5 as a pro level keyboard and it is. Then, start treating the rest of us users like the professionals we are and design software (or at least a template) that works in their own software without all the damn hassles!!! This is my sixth attempt over the years at trying to get Cubase to talk nice to an arranger by Yamaha. As for Yamaha, listen to this, "Start speaking plain English and produce a decent tutorial on how this is achieved!"
 

Re: Recording MIDI revisited
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2018, 07:43:56 AM »
Hi Lee, a lot of the problems you had would have been using All Parts. :) The way you are doing it now is actually one of the best and quite powerful. The Midi recorder in the Tyros is set up to record everything you do and in 16 tracks. So recording and then transferring to Cubase and then Dissolving the track is a very good workflow. Remember have fun! This link has a lot of good information;  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57_WBmM6b1w&list=PLeAGmrQnjblYK7vXSsQ4O5EjnrEcndoPV


Christopher.
If you be a real Seeker after Truth.
It is necessary that at least once in your Life,
You doubt, as far as possible, all things.
_________________________________________________ _______________________
Tyros 5, HS5's, HS8S, Cubase 9.5
 

Online panos

Re: Recording MIDI revisited
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2018, 08:11:24 AM »
Lee I can see that Yamaha trying to keep up with the new technologies.
Watch the sliders and arpeggiators in Genos or the  features of new models as s770/970 and s775/975.
In my humble home user's opinion synthesizers are good for live playing and gigs cause they are more reliable than a pc.
But for using just to produce new sounds in a studio I see an advantage in DAWs.
And actually you don't need a studio.A pc and a cheap midi keyboard is enough.

JM Jarre was a pioneer in the usage of synthesizers from the '70s.
Do you remember the stage full of synthesizers combined together with dozens of meters of cables just to produce the sounds of the 6-8 Trance style that we now have on our Yamaha Atrrengers?
Now he uses a DAW to record his music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBMNRqltnRI

As for the sounds...https://refx.com/artists/

« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 08:16:09 AM by panos »