Author Topic: Style Creator Question - Bass line run  (Read 4791 times)

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Style Creator Question - Bass line run
« on: February 10, 2018, 12:41:32 AM »
Hi team,

I'm re-recording a bass line in the key of C. It's a very simple four bar pattern as such:
Bar 1 [C, G]
Bar 2 [C, G]
Bar 3 [C, G]
Bar 4 [C, G, A, B]

As you can see, the fourth bar has a run up back to the C. For the life of me, I can't get the B to play an actual B. It either plays a Bb or another C!! How the hell do you do it?

I really wish Yamaha would sell us a decent style creation tool!! This on board stuff is a load of garbage, especially with the Save function being so slow! You can't even audition your new style without backing out of a dozen menus!

Thanks.
 

Offline DerekA

Re: Style Creator Question - Bass line run
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2018, 01:01:44 AM »
Can you check that the style's source root chord is set to CM7 ?
Genos
 

Offline DrakeM

Re: Style Creator Question - Bass line run
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2018, 01:24:44 AM »
Go into the Style Creator
Then go to the PARAMETER ... tab
then using the "CHANNEL" found in the bottom left of the screen, change the Channel to read CHANNEL:BASS (at the top of the screen).
Next thing is in the bottom right corner of the screen. Change the "SOURCE CHORD" to read MAJ.

You can now use the REC CH ( the "F" bottom) and the screen changes to allow you to record your new bass line.
Using the REC CH (F button) and the BASS button at the same time will allow you to now record the new notes.

Then just same the style.

Regards
Drake
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 01:26:04 AM by DrakeM »
 

Offline mikf

Re: Style Creator Question - Bass line run
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2018, 03:10:12 AM »
Do you mean that it plays the wrong note in style creator after you record the run or that it plays the wrong note when you audition the style in normal play?
If it is the second then it has to do with the chord you play compared to the chord you used as the reference when you create the style. If you create the style with Cmaj7 as the reference chord but then play the chord of C when auditioning, the way the logic and math is set up may not let it play a b. This is one of the reasons why inserting phrases in styles can be quite complex. It re creates these phrases whether you play a C chord, minor chord, diminished chord, maj 7th or whatever. And it does from mathematical rules not musical knowledge. This can produce unexpected results, and it takes quite a lot of experience to get your arms round this.
Mike
 

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: Style Creator Question - Bass line run
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2018, 03:14:11 AM »
I have just tried recording this bass pattern on my Tyros4 and I also found that on playback with a CMaj chord, it played a C instead of a B!

Page 43 of the T4 Reference Manual says:

Rules when recording non-rhythm channels

Use only the CM7 scale tones when recording the BASS and PHRASE
channels (i.e., C, D, E, G, A, and B).

As far as I was concerned, this was what I had done but the Bass pattern still played incorrectly!

I then checked the settings for the Bass channel in the 'PARAMETER' page of Style Creator, and the Source Root was correctly set at C and the Chord at Maj7.

The NTR was set at 'Root Transpose', and the NTT at 'Melody (Bass)'.   I changed the NTT to 'Bypass' and exited Style Creator.

The bass pattern then played correctly, playing a B when triggered by a CMaj chord.  I tried other chords (including minor ones) in different keys, and it seems to play correctly!
   
I can't tell you why this solved the problem, but it seems to have done so!  ???

BTW you can return directly to the MAIN display from any other screen by pressing 'Direct Access' and then 'Exit'.


Regards

Ian

Re: Style Creator Question - Bass line run
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2018, 03:17:17 AM »
Thanks guys. It worked.

Why can't Yamaha put that in the manual?? If they did, they sure know how NOT to explain it very well. And we wonder why people hate manuals. So many manuals are just plain, useless garbage.
 

Re: Style Creator Question - Bass line run
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2018, 03:20:44 AM »
Thanks Ian. It would be wonderful if you could audition the finished style while still in the Style Creator. It really gets complicated when you're transposed in the original registration. You have to keep going back to C...or I suppose you could change the root chord, but that's opening up another can of worms in what is already a very complicated and pathetically explained function.
 

Offline panos

Re: Style Creator Question - Bass line run
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2018, 03:40:35 AM »
When I go that "Parameter" tab,
I am not sure how it works so I have to change the NTR and NTT (mostly by chance) and then play the song to see how it sounds.
And if it doesn't sound good back to the style creator, I am changing it again and again...
I call it the "Lucky or not" tab ;D
The good thing is that I am learning the song using the style creator functions while editing a style.
So many videos on youtube but I did n't find anything about making styles on Yamaha keyboards. :(

Re: Style Creator Question - Bass line run
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2018, 04:01:20 AM »
Panos, I think Yamaha likes to keep that stuff to themselves. I'm really good at pre-scoring all kinds of stuff (if I do say so myself), but when software issues get in the way, creativity goes right down the toilet.

As so many people have BEGGED for in the past - Yamaha needs to make a decent Style Creator available to us. But there's that profit **** thing again. They can't sell extra styles when there's millions out there who can do them just as well. All we need is the proper tool!!!!!
 

Offline WolfBack

Re: Style Creator Question - Bass line run
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2018, 05:41:44 AM »
Making styles from scratch with the onboard style creator is a pain... We, already know that...
It's a time consuming and hard job. Edit this, test this, edit this again, try this e.t.c. Over and over again.
Fortunately, my life and my time came easier with the StyleMagicYA software.

Make Music, Not War....

Antonis WolfBack (Athens, GR)
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Style Creator Question - Bass line run
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2018, 05:49:44 AM »
Lee,

The B is for when you play a 7th chord.  If you record C E G, you will not get the accurate sounding chords.  but when you record C E G B then you will hear all chords correctly.  This applies to chord parts of the style as well as arpeggios and sequenced parts in the style.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 
The following users thanked this post: panos

Re: Style Creator Question - Bass line run
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2018, 06:10:25 AM »
Thanks everyone for the help. It works like a charm, once you toss the stupid manual away and ask people who know and are willing to share :)!

- Lee

Offline DrakeM

Re: Style Creator Question - Bass line run
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2018, 09:52:15 PM »
For the Record regarding a 7th ... on a bass .. there is no 7th. ;)

Regards
Drake

Re: Style Creator Question - Bass line run
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2018, 11:24:43 PM »
Not sure I understand, Drake. I've heard the Dominant 7th played in plenty of bass lines. Perhaps I'm thinking of a different thing?? Can you elaborate? Thanks  :).
 

Offline mikf

Re: Style Creator Question - Bass line run
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2018, 03:12:49 AM »
Not sure why my reply cut short because i meant to post ....You don't generally play chords on a bass but its pretty accepted practice to refer to bass patterns by their chord tones like maj 7th, flattened or dominant 7th etc so not sure what Drake is getting at either.
The solving of this problem by changing the NTR to by-pass is interesting. I assume that overrides some of the chord logic and lets it play as recorded?? But I would also have thought that leaving it unchanged but playing a maj 7th chord would have solved it as well. But then what would happen if you play an A minor chord?? Its nice to solve the problem, but even better if we can understand why.
Mike
 

Offline mikf

Re: Style Creator Question - Bass line run
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2018, 04:06:25 AM »
Forgot about that, fixed now.
Thanks Panos
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Style Creator Question - Bass line run
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2018, 05:53:41 AM »
Mike,

I only know the that the B is used for the 7th chords because of Michael Bedesem who figured this out when he and other programmers analized the style format.  We don't how everything works or why it works the way it does.

I'm still trying to figure out what the CM codes 3,4,5 and are for in the Multi Pad format.  They represent some similar functions of the style CASM settings... but we don't know how or when they are used.  I have observed that CM 3 is used in the DJ Multi Pads that incorporate chord progressions.  Because Yamaha offers no technical support to third party programmers, it really makes their work a lot more difficult.

Joe H
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 05:57:08 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html