Author Topic: Editing pedal voices  (Read 1326 times)

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Offline larrygreen1

Editing pedal voices
« on: January 05, 2018, 01:36:16 AM »
Hi everyone & Happy new year.I was just wondering if anyone knows if there is any possibility in editing the pedal voices in yem.I have the voices from the TRX set up.Also are these the latest pedal voices available or are the ones from the RS4-1 stick different or better?. I have set up my reg's with the pedal 8'long voice & EQ'd it to make it sound thicker but I find the sustain is just a fraction too long.When playing quickly the notes seem to merge into each other.I have tried pedal 8'med but this is just a fraction too short although the notes don't merge when playing quick!!! Any ideas would be appreciated.Thanks.
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: Editing pedal voices
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2018, 02:22:52 AM »
Hi Larry,
How are the pedal voices set up? Are they part of the panel voices (eg. a left voice) or are they part of the style. If the former and if the issue is that the 8ft med needs a bit more sustain for "normal" playing you should be able to give it a bit more by going to Voice Set/Sound Tab and increasing the Release to a value that sounds right for you. If they are part of the style, Voice Set tweaks won't work and you are left with modifying the samples themselves in YEM (the simple Common YEM tweaks in there are the same as Voice Set so they may not work). You could try going to the Amplitude EG and dragging the release part of it (the part where the amplitude goes to zero) to the right to increase sustain. Alternatively with the other voice try dragging to the left to shorten it for fast playing. I'm assuming these voices are compatible with YEM.
John
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 11:43:21 PM by jwyvern »
 

Offline larrygreen1

Re: Editing pedal voices
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2018, 02:41:07 AM »
Hi John.Thank you for your prompt reply.I am using the pedal voice on style bass!!!
 

Offline keyplayer

Re: Editing pedal voices
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2018, 03:57:31 AM »
Hi Larry, Happy new Year!
The bass voices for the T5 TRX system are accessed through the 'midi song section' so I don't think there is a way to edit them, I certainly  have never found a way. Although they are better than they used to be for T1 - T3 I found they are still quite 'dry' and need some reverb and longer release. I only really use 8ft long mono for general playing, that tends to stop the sound being too 'mushy'.
However, I bought a V-Console and this now gives me access to ALL the voices on the T5 to be able to use on the bass pedals, in fact if I want I can have multiple voices on the pedals, not sure how that affects polyphony. I bought the V-Console mainly for the bass voice availability and editing, and also because I can now split the bottom keyboard voices in several places (if you have 2 keyboards?).

http://www.tyrosmagic.com/v-console-details

I will be out of touch now until tomorrow Larry, but will answer any other queries when I am back on line.

Pam
 

Offline larrygreen1

Re: Editing pedal voices
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2018, 04:47:02 AM »
Hi Pam.Many thanks for your info.If you are using 8'long how do you get them from not sounding mushy? I am only playing the T5 with the pedals so no bottom keyboard!!! I have enough problems with one!!!hahaha.Hope you are well.
 

Offline larrygreen1

Re: Editing pedal voices
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2018, 04:57:00 AM »
Just out of interest,it doesn't make any difference what make of pedals you are using does it???
 

Offline larrygreen1

Re: Editing pedal voices
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2018, 05:28:07 AM »
Hi John.Bit confused where you mention altering the Amplitude.Is that when you have keyboard connected to the computer or can you do that without connecting???
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: Editing pedal voices
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2018, 07:05:38 AM »
Hi John.Bit confused where you mention altering the Amplitude.Is that when you have keyboard connected to the computer or can you do that without connecting???

Larry, You need to copy your pedal voice to a USB stick and have the latter connected to PC. Make sure your keyboard is connected to PC then start YEM by clicking on its icon and create a new pack. Select import content from the menu and  then import the voice by browsing to the USB to find and select it. (I've assumed your voice is a .uvn file which should import to YEM OK). Once you see it in the pack, double click on it and YEM should enter edit mode. That is where you can see the voice elements (let's hope it is only 1 for simplicity) and see edit options, Amplitude included. If you haven't used YEM before it's quite a big /potentially confusing step so I'd advise you to read the YEM manual (the file is with the YEM download) before starting.
Connecting Keyboard and PC allows you to listen to your edits as you test them, through the keyboard.

John
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 07:08:56 AM by jwyvern »
 

Offline larrygreen1

Re: Editing pedal voices
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2018, 09:40:31 AM »
Hi again John.Sorry to be a pain.Would I be able to go straight into my own saved yem pack where my pedal voice is & just double click it to bring up the element section or is this the wrong way?I have just tried without connecting to the T5 & it opens up ok but obviously not being connected it says it will only use my laptop sounds & not preset ones from the keyboard.I did try this a couple of weeks ago when connected to the keyboard & was able to get into the element page where amplitude EG is but I wasn't sure how you would hear your changes & what method to use.Do you put the pedal voice on one of the keyboard voices (1,2,3) to hear or can you adjust & listen whilst using on the bass style & using the foot pedals?Hope all this makes sense!!!Thanks again for your help.
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: Editing pedal voices
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2018, 10:11:37 AM »
Larry, when in edit mode you can play the voice by playing the right side of the keyboard. (The voice is automatically loaded to R1). Alternatively you can use the mouse to click in the YEM screen keyboard picture above the editing area.
John
 

Offline larrygreen1

Re: Editing pedal voices
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2018, 10:49:58 AM »
Thank you for that John.I won't be able to experiment for a couple of weeks now but will let you know how I get on.🙂
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: Editing pedal voices
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2018, 11:04:41 AM »
OK
Just a detail, if you are testing a pedal voice you probably want to play low notes (left of the KB) .
To prevent the split point from blocking you from doing this make sure ACMP is off and left voice is off before you start YEM.
John
 

Offline larrygreen1

Re: Editing pedal voices
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2018, 01:24:44 PM »
Thanks.
 

Re: Editing pedal voices
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2018, 05:39:57 PM »
Hi everyone & Happy new year.I was just wondering if anyone knows if there is any possibility in editing the pedal voices in yem.I have the voices from the TRX set up.Also are these the latest pedal voices available or are the ones from the RS4-1 stick different or better?. I have set up my reg's with the pedal 8'long voice & EQ'd it to make it sound thicker but I find the sustain is just a fraction too long.When playing quickly the notes seem to merge into each other.I have tried pedal 8'med but this is just a fraction too short although the notes don't merge when playing quick!!! Any ideas would be appreciated.Thanks.


Not sure if any of you are aware, but the TRX software is in fact the RS4 which can be bought for peanuts compared to the cost of the TRX. TRX also uses sounds from other companies which you can buy too and save a lot of money over the inflated cost of TRX
 

Offline keyplayer

Re: Editing pedal voices
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2018, 03:57:04 AM »
Hi all, these TRX bass voices have a file extension of .mid which is why they are accessed through the midi song section. Woud you still be able to edit them with YEM?
Pam
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Editing pedal voices
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2018, 05:13:06 AM »
No YEM only works with Expansion Voices These are on the Tyros 4 Regi Stick.

Offline larrygreen1

Re: Editing pedal voices
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2018, 02:04:26 PM »
Is there an RS4-1 registick for the T5 which I have read somewhere & if so is it better???
 

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: Editing pedal voices
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2018, 04:02:24 PM »
I don't have a keyboard that uses YEM for expansion voices, but I do have a Tyros4 and a Regi-Stick RS4.  You can examine and edit expansion voices on a T4 using it's Custom Voice Assembly function.

None of the 'custom' voices on the RS4 that I have use external samples, they are all just based on existing samples from the keyboard's wave ROM.

I have checked the Pedal 8' long UVN with the T4 Custom Voice Assembly function and it only uses a single voice element.

As John has already suggested, you can produce a change in the release time of the voice by changing the 'Release' setting on the 'Sound' page of the 'Voice Set', and this may be sufficient for your requirements.

On a T4 you can either do this in the actual UVN, or you can simply edit the Voice Set of the installed voice and save it as a user voice.  I don't know if you can do the latter on a T5 or Genos.

I modified the UVN on the T4, comparing the sound with the original Pedal 8' long and Pedal 8'med, I reduced the 'Release' setting in the 'Sound' group to -3 to produce a voice which sounds somewhere between the two originals on my T4.

I have loaded the modified voice into YEM v 2.4.1, and it allows me to further edit the Voice Set parameters (or rather the 'Common' parameters as they are called in YEM), although I can't play the voice to hear the changes from within YEM.

I have attached the modified UVN if you want to import it into a YEM pack and try on your T5.

If it works, and is better but still not quite what you want, I can modify it further if you are not sure how to do it yourself, but it is really very simple to do, and I suggest that it is probably better that you try and adjust your own version of the original voice, since you will then know how to make similar changes to other voices if necessary.


Regards

Ian
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 08:11:41 PM by tyrosaurus »
 

Re: Editing pedal voices
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2018, 05:18:42 PM »
Is there an RS4-1 registick for the T5 which I have read somewhere & if so is it better???


The RS4 will work with T5. You can buy it from Yamaha Club for 36.29 for non members
 

Offline larrygreen1

Re: Editing pedal voices
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2018, 01:26:40 AM »
Hi Ian.That is very kind of you to attach your pedal voice.I will download it & try it this week sometime.I will let you know what I think.Many thanks.All the best .Larry.
 

Offline keyplayer

Re: Editing pedal voices
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2018, 10:44:16 AM »
Hi Larry, I'm sorry if I have confused you (and anybody else!) I assumed you were accessing your bass voices via the same midi patform as I am, which uses the midi song section as I previousy said. I thought the T5 TRX registick always set up the pedals this way and is different to the former registicks (T4, T3 etc) which set the pedals to use the bass voice within the style. Having read your first post properly(!) I see you are using the style bass so you are probably using UVN voices?
Anyway, I await the outcome of this with interest, hope you get it sorted.
In answer to your question about 8ft long - I found as long as I used the 'mono' version the voice would cut off before the next pedal was pressed, but 8ftmed mono was best if it was a particularly fast tune!
I don't think it matters what bass pedals you have as long as they are connected by midi, mine are an old Orla set.
Pam
 

Offline larrygreen1

Re: Editing pedal voices
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2018, 08:44:11 AM »
Hi Pam & Ian.I have now been able to go into the editing page of the pedals  by double clicking on the voice that I have saved on YEM & fiddled about with the release etc.I am going to try them tonight at a dance so will keep you posted.Thanks again.
 

Offline larrygreen1

Re: Editing pedal voices
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2018, 06:05:04 AM »
Just an update.Having messed around editing pedal voices for the last few days,have now got a decent bass sound.I have now taken the 8'long sound,beefed it up a bit & taken off some release,decay & reverb.If anyone would like the settings please reply to me.🙂
 

Offline keyplayer

Re: Editing pedal voices
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2018, 07:29:02 AM »
yes please!
 

Offline larrygreen1

Re: Editing pedal voices
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2018, 10:57:43 AM »
Hi Pam.These are my settings for pedal 8'long.

Common
Volume 65.       Right octave -2.      Mono
                       Left octave.  -2

Modulation.                               After touch
Amplitude 64.   LFO A.mod 2.     Amplitude 64.          Everything on the right is 0
Filter        64.   LFO.          0.     Filter.        71
                       LFO.         20. 

Sound

Everything 0 except release 3

Effect

Everything 0

EQ
Low.                       High
Frequency 280Hz.    1.6Hz

Gain 0.                    Gain 0


Element1.   Vol 65.   Note shift0
                  Pan C.   Tuning 0cent. Filter (as is).    Key on delay 0msec
Amplitude.
EG 52
Pitch- No change
Filter- No change
LFO- No change

Also because I am using the voice on style bass my volume is 60 & I have EQ'd to +55.

I am not sure how you get your bass voice coming through the song setting.Perhaps you could explain?.Hope this all makes sense.

Best wishes.Larry.
                                       






 

Offline keyplayer

Re: Editing pedal voices
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2018, 09:57:21 AM »
Hi Larry, thanks for your setting - I'm going to try your 8 ft settings with the same voice I have in my V-Console and let you know my thoughts.

In reply to your questions about my bass voices for pedals. When I bought my T5 to upgrade from my T3 TRX set up it came with the TRX super elite T5 regi stick. I didn't buy it locally so it was delivered by the dealer's delivery man they use, who is an expert player himself and did all the setting up for me. At the time I was used to accessing the bass pedals through the style bass channel, but was finding it quite frustrating to set up when trying out different styles for a tune because I kept having to reset the bass voice. With the upgrade to the T5 the registick has a midi platform that use bass voices that have been created with XG Works  (so I am reliably informed) and have a file extension .mid, so they are midi. Therefore they are only accessed through the midi song section and the bass voice that is selected shows at button A of the main screen. If I press button A it takes me to the file of those voices (which are expansion voices) and there are probably the same bass voices you have but in a different format (ie midi). Because of the midi format I am unable to edit them on board, perhaps I could if i had XG Works on my computer but I'm not really into using music programmes in that way, I would rather be able to do it from the keyboard.

I now use a different midi platform with the addition of V-Console and those bass voices are included within the programme along with all the other voices from the T5. They are accessed through a 'part' for bass pedals. I can't copy them off the programme nor see what format they are but they are easily edited so I'll try your settings.

Hope that makes a bit of sense?

Pam