Author Topic: PSR EW400 Auto-Accompaniment  (Read 1975 times)

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Offline RCars

PSR EW400 Auto-Accompaniment
« on: December 31, 2017, 12:19:50 PM »
New owner of PSR EW400 and I seem to be having trouble with the auto-accompaniment.  When I turn on the auto-accompaniment the keyboard automatically splits (the spit button is not on).  The left hand is now 1 finger cords and there is no sound in keys below 1 octave.  Is this normal?

The reason I ask is on my YPG 235 I am able to turn-on the auto-accompaniment and still play all 76 keys.  Thank-you.
 

Offline SciNote

Re: PSR EW400 Auto-Accompaniment
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2017, 12:58:21 PM »
I'm not sure by what you mean that "there is no sound in keys below 1 octave", but it is normal for the auto-accompaniment to "take over" the lower part of the keyboard.  I haven't checked out this closely on the PSR-EW400, but I'm assuming it is similar to my PSR-E433.  On my keyboard, the part of the keyboard that is used by the auto-accompaniment is determined by the split-point, which can be set to pretty much any key on the keyboard.  So, once you turn on auto-accompaniment, then you will not hear the main or dual voice in the auto-accompaniment part of the keyboard (below the split point).  It sounds like your YPG-235 may have a "full range" feature that is not available on the EW400.

However, if you turn on split voice along with auto-accompaniment, then (again, at least on my keyboard), you can have the split voice play along with the auto-accompaniment chords.  And something I just learned recently is that when you combine auto-accompaniment with split voice like this, then the split voice will also play the single-finger chords that the auto-accompaniment is playing.

Also keep in mind that, when auto-accompaniment is on, it can be used for more than just single-finger chords.  You can actually finger a full chord, and as long as it is a type of chord that the keyboard recognizes (and it can recognize a bunch of them), then the auto-accompaniment will play a background based on the chord you play.  In other words, the keyboard will play an auto-accompaniment for single-finger chords or full-fingered chords, automatically determined by the notes you play.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 01:00:14 PM by SciNote »
Bob
Yamaha PSR-E433
Yamaha PSR-520
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: PSR EW400 Auto-Accompaniment
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2017, 01:48:16 PM »
Yes, that's the way it works on the PSR-E/YPT models, as they do not have the "full keyboard" fingering mode for chords which is available on the DGX/YPG models.

Note that you can move the Split Point if you wish, and you can also turn on the Split Voice as Bob (SciNote) mentioned.

So one possibility would be to set the Split Point as low as it will go. You won't be able to trigger chord changes, but this might be useful if you just want to play the rhythm portion of the accompaniment (you can use the TRACK CONTROL buttons to toggle the different parts of the accompaniment on and off as desired).

Or you could turn on the Split Voice and set it to the same voice number as the Main Voice.
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
Current controllers: M-Audio Axiom 61-II
Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador 611; Casio CTK-710
 

Offline SciNote

Re: PSR EW400 Auto-Accompaniment
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2017, 09:08:23 PM »
...So one possibility would be to set the Split Point as low as it will go. You won't be able to trigger chord changes, but this might be useful if you just want to play the rhythm portion of the accompaniment (you can use the TRACK CONTROL buttons to toggle the different parts of the accompaniment on and off as desired).

Or you could turn on the Split Voice and set it to the same voice number as the Main Voice.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean, but if by "rhythm portion of the accompaniment", you mean just the drums, then you don't need to use auto-accompaniment at all.  I do it all the time -- just turn on a style, but without auto-accompaniment switched on, and you'll get the backing drums for that style, and nothing else.  And then, you can adjust and play main, dual, and split voices anyway you want.

As far as setting the split voice to the same voice as the main voice, that is good, but has limitations.  First of all, of course, there's no dual voice for the split section of the keyboard, so if you're using a dual voice with the main voice, you cannot get that exact sound on the split section.  And, as I recall, with the "full range" or "full finger" mode available on the other keyboards, you can play a chord with your left hand (or, in fact, the keyboard may even determine the chord by all the notes you're playing on the entire keyboard), and then the style will play an accompaniment based on that chord until the keyboard sees a particular combination of notes that make up a different valid chord.  In the mean time, you can play a melody with your right hand and counterpoint or bass with your left hand, and the style will keep playing a background on the current chord.  With the PSR-E series, with auto-accompaniment on, if you try to play a left hand counterpoint or bass line, the auto-accompaniment will interpret each individual note that you play as a single-finger chord and keep changing the accompaniment chord with each note.
Bob
Yamaha PSR-E433
Yamaha PSR-520
 
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Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: PSR EW400 Auto-Accompaniment
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2017, 09:29:17 PM »
Yes, I was talking about just the drums. I forgot that you don't need to actually turn the accompaniment on.

I was going to mention the limitations of Split Voice versus Main-plus-Dual, as well as the lack of attack/release and cutoff/resonance adjustments with the Split Voice, but decided not to go there unless or until it came up. :)

Another possible idea is to set the Split Point as high as it will go, so the whole keyboard is the Split Voice.

But as you point out, these sorts of workarounds are not the same as the "Full Keyboard" fingering mode, and are semi-useful kludges at best.
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
Current controllers: M-Audio Axiom 61-II
Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador 611; Casio CTK-710
 

Offline SciNote

Re: PSR EW400 Auto-Accompaniment
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2018, 01:32:49 AM »
Yes, I was talking about just the drums. I forgot that you don't need to actually turn the accompaniment on.

I was going to mention the limitations of Split Voice versus Main-plus-Dual, as well as the lack of attack/release and cutoff/resonance adjustments with the Split Voice, but decided not to go there unless or until it came up. :)

Another possible idea is to set the Split Point as high as it will go, so the whole keyboard is the Split Voice.

But as you point out, these sorts of workarounds are not the same as the "Full Keyboard" fingering mode, and are semi-useful kludges at best.

That would be interesting to try.  That would make the entire keyboard (except maybe the highest note) be the accompaniment section.  So, you could turn on split voice, and get that voice playing with the auto-accompaniment.  But, as I recently discovered, with auto-accompaniment switched on, the split voice will play the chord being played by the auto-accompaniment.  As long as it keeps the inversion as you play it, so that your intended melody note stays where you want it, that could work.  But, like you said, there are significant limitations.  No dual voice would be available.  The parameters you mentioned, like filter and envelope, would be unavailable.  Of course, there would be no extra split voice.  And if you had section of the song where you were just playing a solo melody with no accompaniment, then you'd have the same issue where the keyboard would interpret each note you play as a single-finger chord and therefore change the chord with each note.

You once posted a way to actually use two split points -- one for the auto-accompaniment, and one for the split voice.  This would be very useful, allowing, for example, the bottom octave to be used for auto-accompaniment chords, the next octave to be used for a split-voice only, and then the upper octaves to be used for the main/dual voices.  As I recall, you had to make a special registration on a computer with a hex-editor to manually make the two different split points, then save that to a USB flash-drive as part of a USER file, which would then be loaded into the keyboard.  I think you said that, as long as you used that special registration as a starting point to make your own registrations, you would have those three zones on the keyboard.

However, I guess you'd actually need access to a PSR-E453/EW400 to do this, since the USER file format is different on each of the PSR-E keyboards, so that the USER file you made for the E433 or E443 would not work on the E453/EW400.
Bob
Yamaha PSR-E433
Yamaha PSR-520
 

Offline mick47

Re: PSR EW400 Auto-Accompaniment
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2018, 02:12:53 AM »
 With the PSR-E series, with auto-accompaniment on, if you try to play a left hand counterpoint or bass line, the auto-accompaniment will interpret each individual note that you play as a single-finger chord and keep changing the accompaniment chord with each note.

Just a basic question  noticed on SciNote's post..Have been using piano only for awhile but i am re discovering the E433 .I have been settiing up dual voices and turning on Auto-Acc and played whatever .My only frustration is the lack of response from my left hand chords that i play,i hear a suttle change but next to nothing compared to the right....RH melody fine.I know i can adjust up the volume of the Dual voice but that will adjust the whole keyboard and not solve my problem
My question in regards to comment i have pasted...with Auto-Acc is it pointless playing full chords?
Is it possible to be able to hear LH chords more 'distinctly' with Auto-Acc on.
Hope this makes sense??
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 02:41:15 AM by mick47 »
 

Offline SciNote

Re: PSR EW400 Auto-Accompaniment
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2018, 04:22:19 AM »
With the PSR-E series, with auto-accompaniment on, if you try to play a left hand counterpoint or bass line, the auto-accompaniment will interpret each individual note that you play as a single-finger chord and keep changing the accompaniment chord with each note.

Just a basic question  noticed on SciNote's post..Have been using piano only for awhile but i am re discovering the E433 .I have been settiing up dual voices and turning on Auto-Acc and played whatever .My only frustration is the lack of response from my left hand chords that i play,i hear a suttle change but next to nothing compared to the right....RH melody fine.I know i can adjust up the volume of the Dual voice but that will adjust the whole keyboard and not solve my problem
My question in regards to comment i have pasted...with Auto-Acc is it pointless playing full chords?
Is it possible to be able to hear LH chords more 'distinctly' with Auto-Acc on.

Hope this makes sense??

I'm not sure of what you mean by "lack of response" from your left hand chords.  However, if you have auto-accompaniment switched on, and split voice switched off, then the auto-accompaniment will simply play a pre-programmed background based on whatever chord you're playing -- or more precisely, whatever chord the keyboard interprets by the notes you are playing -- with your left hand in the auto-accompaniment part of the keyboard.  And, it will just play the pre-programmed background, no matter how many times or in what rhythm you play your left hand chord.  So, for example, you can play a "C" chord with your left hand and hold it down, and the keyboard will play its pre-programmed background.  And then, you can try to hit that "C" chord over and over in rhythm, and it won't make a difference -- the auto-accompaniment will sound the same until you change the actual chord you play (or, of course, go to a different A/B part of the style or change styles).

However, if you turn on the split voice, along with the auto-accompaniment voice, then your selected split voice WILL play each time you hit the chord with your left hand, while the pre-preprogrammed auto-accompaniment will continue to play constantly, like before.  And not only that, but if you use single-finger/easy-play chords, not only will the auto-accompaniment play the background on the expected chord, but the split voice will also play the same whole chord, and it will sound with each press of the keys you are using to get the chord you're playing.

So now, with auto-accompaniment switched on, the notes that you play in the left-hand section become quite important, because that is how the keyboard determines whether you want a single-finger/easy-play chord, or whether you are playing an actual, multi-note chord.  This is what I meant above when I said the keyboard plays a background based on whatever it interprets by the notes you are playing.  Essentially, if you just play a single note, then the keyboard interprets it as that note's major chord.  If you play a note and also play the closest black key right below that note, then you get that highest note's minor chord.  If you play a note and also play the closest white key right below that note, then you get that highest note's 7th chord.  And, if you play a note and also play the closest black and white keys right below that note (playing a total of 3 keys), you get the original note's (or the highest note's) minor-7th chord.  And, like I said, if split voice is turned on with the auto-accompaniment, and you play these easy-play combinations, then the keyboard will play the same easy-play chord with the split voice, each time you hit those notes, along with the auto-accompaniment.

With auto-accompaniment on, if you play any other combination of notes with your left hand, then the keyboard will try to determine what chord you're playing and give you an accompaniment based on that chord.  And, as mentioned, with the split voice turned on, you can play that chord in rhythm and hear that chord/rhythm with the split voice, while the auto-accompaniment does its thing.  If you play a combination of note that is not an easy-play combination and that the keyboard does not recognize as a valid chord, then it appears that you get no background except the drums and the bass of the lowest note you're playing.

So, it sounds to me, if you want to use the auto-accompaniment, that you want to turn on the split voice, and then choose a voice and set its volume and octave so that it will be noticeable along with the pre-programmed auto-accompaniment.  You'll probably want to put the split-voice in a higher octave so that it doesn't sound all "muddled."  And, as I mentioned in the statement you quoted from me in my above post, you can only do this with chords.  You cannot play a manual bass line or counter-point with your left hand while the auto-accompaniment is on, otherwise, the keyboard will interpret each left-hand note as a single-finger/easy-play major chord based on the easy-play rules I wrote above.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 04:30:36 AM by SciNote »
Bob
Yamaha PSR-E433
Yamaha PSR-520
 

Offline mick47

Re: PSR EW400 Auto-Accompaniment
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2018, 09:48:10 AM »
Thanks very much SciNote...cannot get to my keyboard at the moment but what you say makes sense .I will use a split voice to get the  impact i am after in the left hand. You have explained to me what the Auto-Acc does and how it will continue to play the pre programmed background...this explains my 'lack of response'...will let you know how it goes.