Topic: How to Use The Live Control

[Mike2]

Is there a video on you tube for a step by step Live Control functions and set ups.
When I play from a preset style, setting the volume for the drums, chords, Pads, Phrase1, Phrase2 using the sliders 1 - 9..B & 1 position. The knob assign I really don't know how to use it.  Sometimes on you tube videos, the genos is playing a preset style, and it shows the drum sliders off, but you can still hear plenty of drum sounds. I guess, I'm not the brightest bulb with this keyboard. Still enjoy it, as it's a nice step up, from my Tyros 5.

Thanks,
Mike..

[tyrosman]

try Genos typsters

[zionip]

Hi Mike,

There are already some Genos Live Control related Youtube videos:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=yamaha+genos+live+control

You can play these short videos in full screen mode, pause whenever you want to take notes etc.

Tyros Tipsters does not have Genos Live Control related Youtube videos yet:
https://www.youtube.com/user/tyrostipsters

Thanks,
Paul

[Mike2]

Thanks... I already saw these. I know this control can do many things besides volume control. Wish there were more videos like the Tipsters, that would teach step by step, what and how to do it. With my T-5 there were many available videos on You Tube, for many keyboard operations, settings and just short tips. I keep at it, I'll figure it out. I'm just very surprised that with a Keyboard like this, there would be so little information for seniors as myself.

Thanks,
Mike..

[zionip]

Genos was released just for a couple of months.  Tyros 5 was released in November 2013.  It takes time to build up tutorial videos.

Paul

[Fred Smith]

With my T-5 there were many available videos on You Tube, for many keyboard operations, settings and just short tips. I keep at it, I'll figure it out. I'm just very surprised that with a Keyboard like this, there would be so little information for seniors as myself.

Most videos are created by users. So the solution to the paucity of videos is, when you figure it out, post a video of your solution.

Fred

[Mike2]

Paul...You are right, the Genos is still very new. I'm sure in the future videos will appear.

Fred, Yes there is a paucity of videos.  Well, with all this said, I learned a new word today.

Thanks Guys,
Mike..

[tyrosaurus]

Sometimes on you tube videos, the genos is playing a preset style, and it shows the drum sliders off, but you can still hear plenty of drum sounds.

When you load a style, the levels of each part will be set to the levels saved in the style, and if you open the MIXER screen that shows the style part levels you will see them.

However because the Sliders are not motorised, they can't move their position to reflect the actual style part levels and will simply remain at their previous positions.  They could all even be fully down (at zero) but the style parts will actually still be at their programmed levels.  So when you load a style it is extremely unlikely that the position of the sliders will actually reflect the part levels.

As long as you don't move a slider the part level will not change, but as soon as you do move one, the part level controlled by that slider will change.

On the Tyros models, the change is abrupt if the physical position of the slider is some way from the new part level, and after moving the slider slightly, the part level will jump up or down to match the slider position.   This is clearly nonsense, and I tend to use the button pairs under the display of my T4 rather than the sliders, since they do not suffer from this bug!

I was hoping that Yamaha might have improved the situation on Genos, at least so that the part levels do not jump to match the slider position as soon as you move it, but instead remain unchanged until the slider is moved to the position matching the level.

I think that I have seen posts from Genos users that suggest there has been little, if any improvement regarding this issue, and of course on Genos you haven't got the buttons to use as an alternative, but instead you can change the levels by dragging the 'virtual sliders' or via the Data Dial or Dec/Inc buttons in the MIXER screen display.  I assume that changing levels using the touch screen is glitch free!

Motorised sliders are more expensive and can be troublesome as they wear, so perhaps it is not surprising that Yamaha decided not to use them, but they have also used 'dumb' potentiometers for the Assignable Knobs rather than the far superior rotary encoders, which some may see just as a missed opportunity, but I consider to be totally ridiculous, and takes penny pinching to the limit! 

In fact I would have also preferred rotary encoders in place of the 'dumb' sliders.  At least users would be able to use these in a live situation without the fear of a sudden jump in levels!   I wonder how many future incarnations of Genos it will be before the penny (yen?) finally drops at Yamaha?


Regards

Ian

[Lee Batchelor]

There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for not providing a complete and very readable manual for every new product. The only barrier is a company's unwillingness to devote the time and funds. Properly documented hard copy procedures or videos are equally valuable. Unfortunately, the trend today is to produce manuals that provide only what you need - not the little extras you want.

To be fair, Yamaha does a pretty good job, even when the English gets broken by their machine translation. As far as I'm concerned, if a product can perform a certain function, the procedure for said function MUST be documented and properly. There's no excuse for Mike2 to have trouble with this procedure. He should not have to wait for a third party to produce a video so he can fully understand. Part of his purchase price was a manual! The only item a well-written manual cannot account for is, an individual learning disability. Other than that, it's up to the technical writer.

I'm sure every other technical writer on this site would agree with me. At least, that's what I teach my technical writing students .

[Mike2]

The absolute Truth. Well said.

I hope they read this message. For the price of this instrument, how much would a video have cost. I think there are many Genos owners, who are having difficulty understanding, certain functions. That may be normal to a point. It's not always easy to explain on here, exactly what you are having issues with. Not all functions will be used, but the ones that you want, should not be that difficult to figure out. I agree with the manual, I do just as well without it.

Thanks for a GREAT Message.

Yamaha Technical???

[Lee Batchelor]

You're welcome, Mike2!

I'm lucky, in that I get to see both users' sides - the technical writer and player .

[Fred Smith]

There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for not providing a complete and very readable manual for every new product. The only barrier is a company's unwillingness to devote the time and funds. Properly documented hard copy procedures or videos are equally valuable. Unfortunately, the trend today is to produce manuals that provide only what you need - not the little extras you want.

I'm sure every other technical writer on this site would agree with me. At least, that's what I teach my technical writing students .

The problem, Lee, is that there are multiple definitions of what constitutes a "good" manual. I'm sure you've had the situation where, no matter how proficient your technical writers are, there are users who don't understand the manual. And even more prevalent are users who don't read the manual, so technical writers go "why bother".

At least he keyboard has a manual. That's not the case with a lot of stuff these days.

Fred

[jgriffin]

That's true Fred.....but the reference manual is still not a hard copy.  I like to have something in my hands that I can carry to my keyboard, etc.  Because of that I end up printing a lot of material on my own. 

I do have to say that it's nice to have the .pdf copy too because I can always count on knowing where to find it.  Those hard copies have a tendency to get misplaced!

I will also say it's such a great thing to have You Tube and all the tutorials and of course THIS FORUM!   

[Lee Batchelor]

Fred, a manual is either done right or wrong. And to be fair, I agree with you - the perfect manual rarely exists. There will always be someone who simply cannot figure out how to do something based on a properly written manual, however, that's usually the result of some learning disability, albeit small. We ALL have them. Even the geniuses of the world have learning disabilities. I went through university with kids who could score 90 percent in engineering but only 55 percent in psychology. The abstract concepts involved in psychology just didn’t sink in with some of those kids who solved calculus problems faster than you could speak English!

The desire for a hard copy manual was mentioned. He is obviously a sequential, random access, visual learner. He enjoys the tactile feel of a manual and longs for the desire to see the manual start to finish at a glance; something that's impossible with an online manual. On the other hand, he also enjoys the random accessibility of the PDF document and it’s search function. Regardless of the medium, the content is identical and must always correctly address the target audience.

I teach my students to never assume that everyone knows the product inside and out. Just because the Tyros or Genos keyboards tend to attract an upper crust monetary group, it doesn't mean they aren't novices. We both know there are several people on this forum who are making the Genos their first arranger keyboard - more than you'd think. I good technical writer must write to them, while not insulting the talents and skill levels of the expert user. That is where most manuals (and their authors) get a bad name.

You would be shocked at how many high-tech companies use the secretarial staff, or worse, the engineers themselves to write manuals. Neither of those professions have a clue about documentation. I recently completed a document set for a VERY high-tech company. The work involved a major rewrite of 15 large reference manuals, most in the 200 page range. It took me two years. After the first year, the engineering staff (who wrote the initial manuals) noticed a 40 percent drop in help calls. They were being paid to man the help desk instead of inventing new products. Talk about a waste of money!!! My fee as a technical writer paled in comparison to the money the company paid the engineers to sit all day answering tech calls about their products – all because they thought they could write decent manuals.

To get back on topic, it sounds like someone really dropped the ball in explaining what sounds like a very basic procedure to Mike2.

[Lee Batchelor]

And even more prevalent are users who don't read the manual, so technical writers go "why bother".

Those technical writers usually get fired, if the company has any concern about their customers . Technical writers take the job very seriously, and there good writers and not so good ones. A crappy manual is usually written by an untrained person, all in the interests of increasing the bottom line. It became worse with the introduction of the word processor. All of a sudden, everyone was an expert writer because they knew how to use spell check. What a laugh.

What was the question  ??

[pjd]

Technical writers take the job very seriously, and there good writers and not so good ones. A crappy manual is usually written by an untrained person, all in the interests of increasing the bottom line.

Yep! It takes a partnership between engineering and writing staff. Customer-facing contributors would help, too, since many engineers don't know how their customers really use the product. Even if there are tech writers, the engineers need to put in the effort to get a technically correct, useful and readable result. Management needs to make good manuals a priority because many engineers won't volunteer to get involved with writing and documentation.

One of the worse things about retiring -- I don't have a tech writer to cleen up my writing anymore. 

-- pj

[Lee Batchelor]

Well said, PJ and thanks!

Yes, companies that take the time to perform usability studies on their documentation are to be congratulated. The issue seems to be that the ROI of a technical writer doesn't show up at the early points of sale. It's only after a company realizes no one will continue to buy their product because they can't figure out how to use it, that they decide to spend the money on proper documentation. By then, the damage is done.

Are we off topic again?