Author Topic: Genos Keyboard Keys  (Read 21999 times)

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Offline porterma

Genos Keyboard Keys
« on: December 19, 2017, 11:03:29 PM »
Last Saturday we finally had a Genos in Vancouver,Canada at my dealer, Tom Lee Music, to try out. He had 11 in stock that had just arrived the day before and I got a chance to help him unbox the new keyboard, set it all up and then he let me sit down and just play it for over an hour and a half. The touch screen is wonderful to use and the keyboard sounds fantastic. As well, I love all of the added sounds, styles, multipads. However, what I did notice right away was the difference in the feel of pressing the keys on the keyboard. I am use to the Tyros 4 and the dealer had one sitting right next to me. What I noticed was that the keys of the Tyros depress further down than the keys do on the new Genos. In this way the Tyros keys feel more like a real piano where the keys depress very far down when pressed. Using the Genos keys will just take a little getting used to.
I wonder if anyone else has noticed this and what kind of explanation there is for this type of change.

Mark
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2017, 11:38:18 AM »
Pleased you enjoyed your play on Genos,
  I must admit I find the keys on Genos fine and can't say I notice a great difference but then I am not a pianist.

Offline voodoo

Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2017, 12:03:29 PM »
Hi Mark,

I find that the Genos keys are still very soft, more synthesizer action and not semi weighted, as compared to the PA4X or Nord/Fatar keyboards. But it is still a great improvement when coming from the S970, so I am happy with it.

Uli
Yamaha Genos
Yamaha MODX7
Yamaha P-125 Digital Piano
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline rattley

Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2017, 11:35:14 PM »
Hello,

The only thing I notice different about the Genos keys compared to Tyros 5's keys is the key surface. Genos seems to have a slightly rougher surface compared to Tyros 5's slippery surface. I noticed this immediately when I started playing Genos.  My fingers seem to grip the keys much firmer without sliding. I make less mistakes. It is very noticeable to me.  I still have my Tyros 5 and am able to verify my findings. Both keyboards are great but I am loving my Genos more and more each time I play it.  Best wishes.  -charley
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2017, 10:28:29 AM »
Yes Charlie,
  The keyboard grows on you doesn't it. A sheer joy to play.

Offline guitpic1

Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2018, 02:18:48 PM »
Hi Mark,

I find that the Genos keys are still very soft, more synthesizer action and not semi weighted, as compared to the PA4X or Nord/Fatar keyboards. But it is still a great improvement when coming from the S970, so I am happy with it.

Uli

Iím trying out a Genos to see if I like it...sounds wonderful..very impressive.

However, compared to my PA 4X, the Keys/keybed of the Genos is a bit of a disappointment.  Iím guessing the keybed design helps keep the weight of the keyboard down.
guitpic1

For me, the goal is to keep growing/learning.
 

Offline StuartR

Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2018, 08:28:07 PM »
Iím trying out a Genos to see if I like it...sounds wonderful..very impressive.

However, compared to my PA 4X, the Keys/keybed of the Genos is a bit of a disappointment.  Iím guessing the keybed design helps keep the weight of the keyboard down.

I doubt it. Genos has Yamahas flagship FSX synth action keybed. IMHO it's better than the one on Tyros 5 and Montage.
 
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Offline Seagull29

Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2018, 09:17:38 PM »
Hi,
I am sorry to contradict you but the Genos and Tyros 5 have exactly the same keyboard! On the other hand, that of Pa4X is a semi-weight keyboard, which, in my opinion, is superior to the Yamaha keyboard, especially for a pianist. But everyone's taste or feeling.
 

Offline StuartR

Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2018, 10:38:42 PM »
Hi,
I am sorry to contradict you but the Genos and Tyros 5 have exactly the same keyboard! On the other hand, that of Pa4X is a semi-weight keyboard, which, in my opinion, is superior to the Yamaha keyboard, especially for a pianist. But everyone's taste or feeling.

Guess we'll agree to disagree. I had both the Tyros 5 76 and a Genos and the two keybeds felt different. It's my opinion that the Genos keybed has been further refined. I like it even better than I did the one on the Tyros 5 76.
 

Offline pjd

Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2018, 11:03:21 PM »
Guess we'll agree to disagree. I had both the Tyros 5 76 and a Genos and the two keybeds felt different. It's my opinion that the Genos keybed has been further refined. I like it even better than I did the one on the Tyros 5 76.

This pops up on the Yamaha Synth forum, too. Some folks swear that the Montage keybed feels different than the Motif XF, for example. The Yamaha moderators swear that it's the same keybed. Go figure.

It's such a personal thing and the keybed is what it is.  :D

BTW, moving over from S950 and MOX with light action keybeds, it took a little while to get into the Genos' FSX. Palm swipes were especially tough at first. Now I'm 98% converted. There's a few jazz triplet things that I can execute better on the S950/MOX with my weak fingers and that's the remaining 2%.

Take care -- pj
 
 
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Offline StuartR

Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2018, 01:46:10 AM »
This pops up on the Yamaha Synth forum, too. Some folks swear that the Montage keybed feels different than the Motif XF, for example. The Yamaha moderators swear that it's the same keybed. Go figure.

It's such a personal thing and the keybed is what it is.  :D

BTW, moving over from S950 and MOX with light action keybeds, it took a little while to get into the Genos' FSX. Palm swipes were especially tough at first. Now I'm 98% converted. There's a few jazz triplet things that I can execute better on the S950/MOX with my weak fingers and that's the remaining 2%.

Take care -- pj

Having personally had a Tyros 5, Montage and Genos at the same time, I can say from my experience that each keybed felt slightly different from the other two. I think the Genos one is the best but it's totally subjective.
 

Offline Seagull29

Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2018, 04:03:44 AM »
Hi,
I think we do not consider an important parameter: the time of use of the keyboard. It is obvious that a new keyboard will respond better and will appear a little harder than a keyboard that has served a lot, and this due to some wear of the springs. But it's just my opinion, and some experience of keyboards in general.
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2018, 04:51:10 AM »
 The implementation of after touch by the Genos keyboard is excellent. Very positive so you can always trigger it when needed, and the amount is clearly variable (as opposed to sounding On or Off) depending how much key pressure is used,
John
 

Offline stephenm52

Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2018, 09:51:21 PM »
My 2 cents, I was trained on piano.  I do prefer the keyboard action on my Pa4x, but with the improvements in Genos with everything from touch screen to the Playlist feature not having the action of the Pa4x is a non-issue.
GENOS, Clavinova CVP 307, SX900 on the way, Korg Pa4x-76

Steve's Genos Recordings

Steve's Gig Disks
 

Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2018, 04:06:37 AM »
Hi,
I am sorry to contradict you but the Genos and Tyros 5 have exactly the same keyboard!

You are right. Why can I be so sure ?  I have arthritis in my 82 year old fingers and therefore on  TYROS 1  I opened the instrument, took out every key and added some lead into each of them to make them even lighter to the touch. When upgrading in the Tyros line and now to Genos  I took out my modified keys and put the new ones into the TYROS  I gave as a trade in.  You could not do that if they were not 100 % the same .The spare parts number in the YAMAHA  service manual is the same.
Hats off to YAMAHA, I am playing the Genos on 15 old keys and they still show no wear. But I am sure they will not last as long as the ivory keys of  the 1923 Steinway Grand i inherited from my father. Soon they will have been in use for  a century. World class pianists from St.Peterburg hammer away on them when we have a house concert. They claim  vintage Steinways  have a wonderfully responsive  touch,  but my fingers are too weak.  :(
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline Gunnar Jonny

Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2018, 08:24:12 AM »
I find the keys good to play at, a bit different than T4, but I like it as it is. :)
Guess you already know about that the Touch Response can be set to different values, such as Normal, Easy1, Easy2, Soft1, Soft2, Hard1, Hard2
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)
 

Offline RaduRodideal

Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2019, 09:49:12 AM »
Just sold my pa4x, waiting a little to save some money and buy Genos. It was a rough call to make. One thing is for sure, the Pa4x keybed is outstanding, but soundwise Yamaha beats Korg badly. I too have noticed the difference in key depth of the Tyros 3 and 4 compared to 5 and Genos. The older models keybed acted more like a piano. I am sure shortening the lentgth of the key traveling has something to do with the weight beeing reduced. I gig 5 times a week, for me the weight matters a lot!!!!....but so does the keybed. I am a trained pianist that switched to pop/rock/jazz so I am very picky about the keybed. I hope I will not regret my choice on switching to Yamaha.
Does anyone here play solo piano sometimes on tyros or Genos?
 

Offline stephenm52

Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2019, 11:59:32 AM »
Just sold my pa4x, waiting a little to save some money and buy Genos. It was a rough call to make. One thing is for sure, the Pa4x keybed is outstanding, but soundwise Yamaha beats Korg badly. I too have noticed the difference in key depth of the Tyros 3 and 4 compared to 5 and Genos. The older models keybed acted more like a piano. I am sure shortening the lentgth of the key traveling has something to do with the weight beeing reduced. I gig 5 times a week, for me the weight matters a lot!!!!....but so does the keybed. I am a trained pianist that switched to pop/rock/jazz so I am very picky about the keybed. I hope I will not regret my choice on switching to Yamaha.
Does anyone here play solo piano sometimes on tyros or Genos?

My background was all on piano.  Yes I can and do play the Genos as a solo piano from time to time it can be done.  I routinely do so at gigs as part of showing my senior audiences what my Genos can sound like as a piano and also as a self contained virtual band.
GENOS, Clavinova CVP 307, SX900 on the way, Korg Pa4x-76

Steve's Genos Recordings

Steve's Gig Disks
 

Offline CindyG

Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2019, 09:46:05 PM »
Hi RaduRodideal - I never played piano or the Korg PA4X. I also don't play outside the home. I can say that from what I've read on the Korg forums, the width of Korg's keys is a little wider than Yamaha's, so if you have large/wide fingers, that may matter to you.

I have smaller hands and have always played keyboard/organ, so my own preference is for a lighter key feel. I do find that I can play faster on the Genos keybed due to the seemingly shorter key travel, and it's less fatiguing. However, some used to a piano keybed find it harder to play piano voices expressively without the weighted keys.

Have you considered a digital piano with arranger features? I think there are some available out there. Casio has a new one that is very lightweight, for example.

In the end, I think this is something you will need to try for yourself if at all possible. I know it's harder in some areas to find a Genos to try in person (or any arranger keyboard, for that matter!) Good luck!
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 09:49:29 PM by CindyG »
Current keyboards: Genos, Tyros 3, Yamaha MODX
Past keyboards:  Yamaha PSR-740, Yamaha PSS-680
 

Offline Toril S

Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2019, 11:30:22 PM »
My first instrument was accordion, so I am used to light keys. I find heavy keys more difficult to play. Yes, it is easier to press a wrong key when the keys are light, but I can play faster, without so much effort.
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline Tyros4Boy

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Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2019, 03:48:02 AM »
Got my Genos last week - upgraded from TYROS 4 - but having trouble playing it as well as I play the TYROS 4. 
I mainly play by ear, but now keep hitting the wrong keys and getting very frustrated with the GENOS. :-\
I am NOT a great player and only play for my own enjoyment at home, but have been asked to play
at the "OLD PEOPLE's" Home ( but worried they are going to CLAIM me as an "INMATE" as I am 74 years young.)  :o  :-[

However I think I found out the reason for my mistakes: :)
The GENOS's keys are wider then on the TYROS, (which I still have) , so I measured them both and found:
An OCTAVE in the TYROS is 160 mm and the GENOS is 183 mm...... or the width of ONE key
Have anyone else noticed that....I suppose it is only a matter of time before I get used to it.
Apart from that - I LOVE the GENOS
Tyros4boy (ex)

Offline ticktock

Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2019, 04:28:23 AM »
Tyros4Boy
Wow. I don't think people pay attention about the keys width as they have other things to enjoy. You should be a detective.
Ted
 

Offline Tyros4Boy

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Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2019, 06:41:00 AM »


When I play BY EAR,  I seldom look at he keyboard and most times, I use every finger on my hands to create harmony.
My fingers are probably being directed by my brain (what's left of it) and will have to be RE-TRAINED for the GENOS
 
B.T.W - I am a Detective (retired)
Cheers
Ex - TYROS4BOY
 
 

Offline mikf

Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2019, 04:02:45 PM »
 
The GENOS's keys are wider then on the TYROS, (which I still have) , so I measured them both and found:
An OCTAVE in the TYROS is 160 mm and the GENOS is 183 mm...... or the width of ONE key
That is an odd measurement, are you sure you measured it correctly? There is no defined standard but most white piano keys are 7/8" (22mm), with a 1/16 spacing, so that gives most exactly 6 1/2 (123) octave span. The metric sizes are rounded. Obviously making the key a little smaller would reduce the span and the overall length of the keyboard, so some portable keyboard manufacturers have made keys a little smaller to save space. There are some variations between manufacturers in the key length, the length of the portion extending beyond the black key, and the exact shape of the black keys, but most work with the 7/8 white key.
When you make a key smaller it may be a bit more difficult to hit accurately, but the span between notes reduces which might be easier for some. But the trade off has led most manufacturers to settle on 7/8, although as I said some have tended to go smaller to make a more compact instrument. I haven't come across any which are bigger though.
I don't have a Genos to check. That Yamaha would make it with bigger keys just seems odd to me.   
Exact size of key, within reasonable limits, doesn't make too much difference to most average players, but you can imagine that for a very accomplished player who has practiced 10 hours a day for umpteen years, small differences would be very noticeable. That is why so many classical pianists insist on Steinway. Its not because they are better, ( in fact there are very few experts who consider the Steinway to be the best piano) but because in the most demanding environment you want the comfort of it being the same all the time.
Mike   
 

Offline Janus

Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2019, 04:38:18 PM »
I have a Tyros 5
I don't use the Tyros Keys
I do have a psr9000pro more than 10 year
I use it as a master keyboard
The Tyros got rubber contactstrips
The psr9000pro got selfcleaning metal spring contacts
In all those years never trouble with the keyboard contacts
 

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2019, 05:20:02 PM »
Got my Genos last week - upgraded from TYROS 4 - but having trouble playing it as well as I play the TYROS 4. 
The GENOS's keys are wider then on the TYROS, (which I still have) , so I measured them both and found:
An OCTAVE in the TYROS is 160 mm and the GENOS is 183 mm...... or the width of ONE key

I also have Tyros4 and Genos, and I have just measured the keys.  They are exactly the same width on both keyboards!

The width of an octave on both is 160mm (to the nearest mm) if you measure from the left edge of a white key to the left edge of the same key one octave above.

However if you measure from the left edge of a white key to the right edge of the same key one octave above, this measurement is indeed 183mm!

I suspect that you have measured the two keyboards differently!


Regards

Ian

Offline mikf

Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2019, 11:09:58 PM »
That makes much more sense. The 180mm had to be wrong.
BTW on my post I wrote down the wrong conversion my 123mm should have read 163mm.
Mike
 

Offline Tyros4Boy

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Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2019, 04:55:21 AM »
YES - I AM WRONG - WRONG - WRONG - I measured the GENOS from the left side, NOT realising that there is an EXTRA keys E there and the TYROS has a different key layout - I should have counted the keys I measured on both instruments
Well as I mentioned before, the GREY MATTER is 74 years old and a bit SLOW at times.
Thanks to you all for correcting me

Cheers
"THE DUMBO"
 
 

Offline Toril S

Re: Genos Keyboard Keys
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2019, 12:08:08 PM »
Even if the measurements are similar there are slight differences in the key action. And for some of us that means a time is needed to get comfortable playing a new keyboard. I also have this problem. On accordions you can really have big difference in key size, so I do not like to play other accordions😀
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page