Author Topic: Is this the new Vocal Harmonizer in action?  (Read 757 times)

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Offline Eric, B

Is this the new Vocal Harmonizer in action?
« on: October 12, 2017, 05:29:37 PM »
In the video below you can hear the girl sing solo first.
At about 34 seconds you can hear multiple voices, 2 or more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=33&v=q6ZgMKBzMEs

Martin Harris explains in this video at about 22:44 min that they used the Genos to record the girls voice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwBLCaBRcwY

I wonder if it is the new Harmonizer we hear?
If so, it sounds pretty incredible ;)
What do you think?
Eric


« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 05:30:46 PM by Eric, B »
Genos, Tyros4, PSR-S970
 

Offline Marcus

Re: Is this the new Vocal Harmonizer in action?
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2017, 06:59:52 PM »
There does seem to be some VH added to the girl's voice, and more than likely the Genos mic input and VH were used to record the audio clip files, however the demo was more geared towards the use of audio multipads then the VH feature.

I am sure more demo videos are on the way to specifically feature the Vocal Harmonizer.

Marcus
Gear: Triangle
 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: Is this the new Vocal Harmonizer in action?
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2017, 11:18:58 PM »
Have Yamaha upgraded the Genos VH2 or not ?
Plse advise. Thanks, Jeff
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline frankmusik

Re: Is this the new Vocal Harmonizer in action?
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2017, 11:20:49 PM »
Have Yamaha upgraded the Genos VH2 or not ?
Plse advise. Thanks, Jeff
With my knowledge stand the VH2 is still the same!

greetings frank

PS: some people write other things, what is wrong with my knowledge ...
Tyros Support in Germany
 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: Is this the new Vocal Harmonizer in action?
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2017, 01:17:53 AM »
Thank you for your feedback, Frank.👍

Jeff
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline maartenb

Re: Is this the new Vocal Harmonizer in action?
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2017, 03:33:37 AM »
In the video below you can hear the girl sing solo first.
At about 34 seconds you can hear multiple voices, 2 or more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=33&v=q6ZgMKBzMEs

After careful listening, my conclusion is: she is singing her own background voices. This is not the VH, in my opinion.


Maarten
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Is this the new Vocal Harmonizer in action?
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2017, 03:38:46 AM »
With my knowledge stand the VH2 is still the same!

greetings frank

PS: some people write other things, what is wrong with my knowledge ...

It looks like they only improved the presets.. 
according to Heidrun on her German forum, the soundwinderland oresets will sound the same on the Genos as on the Tyros5
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline Marcus

Re: Is this the new Vocal Harmonizer in action?
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2017, 05:02:17 AM »
I starting using VH back in the 90s with the Yamaha MU100r tone generator. The VH was fun, but very limited getting quality pitch tracking or gender bending that sounded authentic without that warbling effect to your vocal and other unwanted processing artifacts.

The present VH2 in many of Yamaha's arrangers was a vast improvement, however to me the biggest issues was that the presets were not optimized to sound the best, and way too many detailed settings and parameters hiden in sub menus. Only a small percentage of users would actually delve into the menus or edit a preset optimized into a user save to fit their exact VH purpose/type.

I own and used VH from my Tyros 5(VH2), TC Helicon VL2 Extreme(home studio), and the Roland VP-7 on the road with my Tyros. Each unit or manufacturer has its own advantages and strong points. TC Helicon products overall are the best quality VH, because the presets and preset name/types are clearly catagorized and optimized. My trusty Roland unit is the best at altering the gender of a voice (male-female) and Roland's VH presets are optimized and locked in with no user editing at all. Only control knobs to adjust levels or balances. Yamaha VH2 is the king of setting options and parameters, but not harnessed or easily rendered by the user, which ends in frustration for most.

So the issue is, an optimized preset (a setting where the typical voice will sound the best with good stable VH effects) and a preset name catagorizing the VH type, vocoder/chordal/SFX. From the Genos Owners Manual, it looks like this is what Yamaha did, vocorder/chordal/SFX types are color coded in the preset names. A better VH interface would go a long way. An optimized VH preset that will work for most, then easy menus and editing for those you want to tweak further.

No VH processor is perfect, but I am sure to see significant improvements in the Genos VH, whether VH2 or perhaps VH3. No official documentation has mentioned VH2 by name yet. Also, most would get best results if VH is used sparingly in their performances, unless of course one is using a SFX robotic type vocode type sound, but in traditionally used song performances. Also I have found that if the VH effect is adjusted slightly behind your lead vocal mic level ( like a 40/60 mix), this tends to make the VH parts more authentic. In the case of VH, less is better.

I am confident, from the new VH interface, that Yamaha reworked the VH processor and should sound great on the Genos. Looking forward to the demos.

Marcus

Gear: Triangle
 

Offline DrakeM

Re: Is this the new Vocal Harmonizer in action?
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2017, 07:33:11 AM »
Folks claim the VH2 is not that great but I gotta tell you, for me it works just fine. In fact it actually works too good, as people think I am using karaoke files that I play along with in order to get my backup singers. I still have to take a moment in my gigs to demonstrate how it all works and that it is just me playing the keyboard.

As far as the demo goes with using recorded vocals in the muti-pads, it would make more sense to just record the whole darn thing with the keyboard's WAV recorder ... minus the lead part. Then just play along with the WAV file (with the vocals) I would think that would be a lot simpler to construct and to use.

I would bet getting the vocals to start at the correct time would be real timing issue pain to get correct.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 07:35:50 AM by DrakeM »
 

Offline Eric, B

Re: Is this the new Vocal Harmonizer in action?
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2017, 12:01:01 PM »
Have Yamaha upgraded the Genos VH2 or not ?
Plse advise. Thanks, Jeff

According to Frank from Audioworks the VH had a major upgrade. So he was told.
Whatever that means ...
Hopefully we'll know soon. ;)
Eric
Genos, Tyros4, PSR-S970
 

Offline Eric, B

Re: Is this the new Vocal Harmonizer in action?
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2017, 12:09:44 PM »
I starting using VH back in the 90s with the Yamaha MU100r tone generator. The VH was fun, but very limited getting quality pitch tracking or gender bending that sounded authentic without that warbling effect to your vocal and other unwanted processing artifacts.

The present VH2 in many of Yamaha's arrangers was a vast improvement, however to me the biggest issues was that the presets were not optimized to sound the best, and way too many detailed settings and parameters hiden in sub menus. Only a small percentage of users would actually delve into the menus or edit a preset optimized into a user save to fit their exact VH purpose/type.

I own and used VH from my Tyros 5(VH2), TC Helicon VL2 Extreme(home studio), and the Roland VP-7 on the road with my Tyros. Each unit or manufacturer has its own advantages and strong points. TC Helicon products overall are the best quality VH, because the presets and preset name/types are clearly catagorized and optimized. My trusty Roland unit is the best at altering the gender of a voice (male-female) and Roland's VH presets are optimized and locked in with no user editing at all. Only control knobs to adjust levels or balances. Yamaha VH2 is the king of setting options and parameters, but not harnessed or easily rendered by the user, which ends in frustration for most.

So the issue is, an optimized preset (a setting where the typical voice will sound the best with good stable VH effects) and a preset name catagorizing the VH type, vocoder/chordal/SFX. From the Genos Owners Manual, it looks like this is what Yamaha did, vocorder/chordal/SFX types are color coded in the preset names. A better VH interface would go a long way. An optimized VH preset that will work for most, then easy menus and editing for those you want to tweak further.

No VH processor is perfect, but I am sure to see significant improvements in the Genos VH, whether VH2 or perhaps VH3. No official documentation has mentioned VH2 by name yet. Also, most would get best results if VH is used sparingly in their performances, unless of course one is using a SFX robotic type vocode type sound, but in traditionally used song performances. Also I have found that if the VH effect is adjusted slightly behind your lead vocal mic level ( like a 40/60 mix), this tends to make the VH parts more authentic. In the case of VH, less is better.

I am confident, from the new VH interface, that Yamaha reworked the VH processor and should sound great on the Genos. Looking forward to the demos.

Marcus

Hi Marcus,
Great write up.
I am in a similar situation. I use the TC Helicon VL3 for my main Gigs and studio. It just works great for my wife and me.
The Yamaha VH2 in my S970 works well for small gigs and is sufficient.
However it distorts for my wife because of her high voice. No problem with the TC Helicon.
With the TC Helicon I use mostly custom settings. You can also go very deep in the settings. Similar to Yamaha.
I sure hope that the one in the Genos will be an improvement.
We'll see soon enough.
Eric
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 12:11:23 PM by Eric, B »
Genos, Tyros4, PSR-S970
 

Offline Enildo

Re: Is this the new Vocal Harmonizer in action?
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2017, 01:29:37 PM »
The s970's VH2 really is very good, but it has to improve stability.
I use a lot on almost every song in my shows (98%), and it really makes a big difference. I can not imagine working without it.
For better stability, depending on your VH2 configuration, you must set the "Pitch Detect". Each VH configuration requires a different Pitch Detect configuration.
Just so I improved the stability of the VH2 settings.

Greetings,
Enildo
When word fail, Music speaks!
 
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Offline Marcus

Re: Is this the new Vocal Harmonizer in action?
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2017, 02:15:30 PM »
The s970's VH2 really is very good, but it has to improve stability.
I use a lot on almost every song in my shows (98%), and it really makes a big difference. I can not imagine working without it.
For better stability, depending on your VH2 configuration, you must set the "Pitch Detect". Each VH configuration requires a different Pitch Detect configuration.
Just so I improved the stability of the VH2 settings.

Greetings,
Enildo

Yes, the VH2 is actually quite good. However, not too many users are familiar enough to optimize the settings of each preset to optimize the effect to their vocal or VH purpose. Yamaha must take the approach of optimizing each preset to get the best quality VH out of each preset or VH type. I think Yamaha gave this a second thought and improved the preset system on the Genos.

Marcus
Gear: Triangle