Author Topic: Yamaha and updates..  (Read 675 times)

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Offline Bachus

Yamaha and updates..
« on: October 08, 2017, 05:57:42 AM »
Check out this information about the Yamaha Montage and all the software updates it had over a little more then a year.

http://keyszone.boards.net/thread/466/yamaha-montage-1-6

And these are not just random updates.
No these updates are mostly based on user input on the official Yamaha Synth forum.

Assuming there is no official Yamaha arranger forum
This might be the place where Yamaha gets its user information for the Genos
Now in the last 1 1/2 decade Yamaha has been very conservative with updates for the Tyros range.

Do we asume this will change with the Genos?
To me the new hardware platform seems more suited for regular update.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 07:11:57 AM by Bachus »
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Online Jeff Hollande

Re: Yamaha and upgrades..
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2017, 06:17:08 AM »
As far as we can remember the last Yamaha high end arranger keyboard update goes back to the PSR9000pro.
A very long time ago.

Since the T1 no more updates.
T2, T3, T4 and T5 were called upgrades by Yamaha.

It would be wonderful if we finally could expect real Genos updates but if Yamaha will continue their so called upgrade policy, customers will see a Genos2 in 2020 or earlier.

Wait and see.

Jeff
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline willem7397

Re: Yamaha and upgrades..
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2017, 06:30:19 AM »
That's is a nice overview Bachus and it makes me almost want to buy a Montage instead of Genos.
Let's hope that Yamaha will support Genos also with future upgrades.

Online Jeff Hollande

Re: Yamaha and upgrades..
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2017, 06:45:27 AM »
Genos upgrades like Genos2, Genos3 etc. will follow, no doubt in my mind ... but I think you mean UPDATES, am I right, Willem ?

And ... If Genos updates should come, will they be free of charge ? ... time will tell.

Jeff
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline willem7397

Re: Yamaha and upgrades..
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2017, 06:53:59 AM »
Yes Jeff, I mean updates via newer firmware versions 8)
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Yamaha and upgrades..
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2017, 07:13:12 AM »
Yes Jeff, I mean updates via newer firmware versions 8)

Yes, so i changed my typo in the topic title from upgrade to software update..

Its all about this version the Genos 1.
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline Mendel

Re: Yamaha and updates..
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2017, 07:31:46 AM »
This might be a bit of topic... dose genos have chord sequence?


Mendel
 

Online Jeff Hollande

Re: Yamaha and updates..
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2017, 07:39:17 AM »
If most customers feel happy and agree Yamaha are launching new or modified arranger keyboard models on a regular base ( every 3 - 4 years e.g. ) and it looks to be a commercial success for Yamaha and their dealers, it is hard to believe they will change that particular sales and /or marketing strategy.

In other words why should Yamaha make updates if all their loyal customers are pleased to follow their manucturing, sales and distribution policy ?

Remember the old slogan : " Never shoot a winning horse ".
IMHO.

Jeff
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 07:52:56 AM by Jeff Hollande »
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline StuartR

Re: Yamaha and updates..
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2017, 08:02:22 AM »
Check out this information about the Yamaha Montage and all the software updates it had over a little more then a year.

http://keyszone.boards.net/thread/466/yamaha-montage-1-6

And these are not just random updates.
No these updates are mostly based on user input on the official Yamaha Synth forum.

Assuming there is no official Yamaha arranger forum
This might be the place where Yamaha gets its user information for the Genos
Now in the last 1 1/2 decade Yamaha has been very conservative with updates for the Tyros range.

Do we asume this will change with the Genos?
To me the new hardware platform seems more suited for regular update.

A good point. Montage has had several significant updates with new features and sounds in the last year or so. Yamaha seems to limit their arranger updates to bug fixes rather than new features/sounds.
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: Yamaha and updates..
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2017, 08:08:37 AM »
Really don't need software updates if you got it right the first time. :)

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline Rick D.

Re: Yamaha and updates..
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2017, 08:22:20 AM »
LOL Gary, you’re dreaming!

Rick D.
 

Online Jeff Hollande

Re: Yamaha and updates..
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2017, 08:34:19 AM »
Gary,

Being a moderator you should know better, I guess. ;D

Jeff
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Yamaha and updates..
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2017, 08:44:46 AM »
Really don't need software updates if you got it right the first time. :)

Gary 8)

Depends on your product philosofy..

My kronos is 7 years old..
and while it was a good instrument at release
They kept adding features over the years
Making the instrument still every a competitor as it was 7 years ago

If you want to stretch the lifetime of your products
What we see now also happening with yamaha
Feature and comtent updates are the only way to go..

Whats perfect today will not be perfect in 5 years..


On top of that, the Genos leaves a huge amount of room for further perfection
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 08:46:29 AM by Bachus »
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Offline Christophermoment

Re: Yamaha and updates..
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2017, 08:57:22 AM »
Assuming there is no official Yamaha arranger forum
This might be the place where Yamaha gets its user information for the Genos
Now in the last 1 1/2 decade Yamaha has been very conservative with updates for the Tyros range.


Hi, have to ask why there is no official Yamaha Arranger Forum?? I've brought this up a couple of times on Yamahasynth and been told that their forum is only for synths. Which is strange as the CP line is represented there. :) Have also been told that a definition of a synth is that you can edit the voices to produce your own sounds, I thought that we could do that with the elements on the Tyros 5 using YEM. Bottom line, why does Yamaha not give the same type of support to Arrangers, they seem to imply that arrangers do not deserve the same level of support as the 'professional synth line'.

Christopher.
If you be a real Seeker after Truth.
It is necessary that at least once in your Life,
You doubt, as far as possible, all things.
_________________________________________________ _______________________
Tyros 5, HS5's, HS8S, Montage 8, Cubase 9
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: Yamaha and updates..
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2017, 09:36:52 AM »
Bachus, I posted that statement tongue in cheek (jokingly), however, as for keyboards being out of date in 5 years, this is no longer the case and has not been since the arrival of the PSR-3000, Roland G-70, etc... Many of these boards are still in use by professional entertainers and they continue to do an outstanding job with little or no updates that would enhance the sound quality. Most of the updates I've seen were for the operating system, and in one instance, it just enhanced the colors of the display.

I performed 7 days a week, 350 to 450 jobs a year using nothing more than a PSR-3000 and a Bose PA system. I really was not concerned with updates, and for the most part, most of the pro entertainers I know could care less about software updates. They, like myself, purchased their arranger keyboards based on what they heard coming out of the speakers, PA systems or headphones. At this point, the only decision that had to be made was will this NEW arranger keyboard fill my needs and will I sound better and secure more or higher paying jobs? The answer is usually a resounding yes, thus the keyboard is purchased, tuned to that entertainer's needs and goes on the road with him or her - it's that simple. Mine remained on the road for more than a decade before I decided to upgrade to the S-950. Upon upgrading, I noted that the audiences seemed to enjoy the new sounds and styles as much as I did, and this is an important aspect of keeping your performances new and exciting, thereby creating new jobs.

When my health went to Hell, I was performing up to 440 jobs a year and getting top dollar for each and every one of them. I managed to do this without software updates - I really didn't need them, and for the most part, the vast majority of the players on this and other forums don't need them as well. However, for the select few individuals that require them, such as yourself, apparently, Yamaha, and other manufacturers, has responded to those requests and provided the updates, often at no charge whatsoever to the users.

Now, as the years progress, keyboard manufacturers will continue to add new and more exciting features to their newly released arranger/workstations - if they didn't, they would not be in business very long. Kinda like the auto industry - add lots of neat stuff so folks will upgrade and buy the new one, even though the old one still works just fine. These software updates are just icing on the cake when it comes to arranger keyboards.

All the best,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Online Jeff Hollande

Re: Yamaha and updates..
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2017, 10:18:02 AM »
These software updates are just icing on the cake when it comes to arranger keyboards.


Too many features and applications have been changed in the last couple of years to jump to this conclusion, I guess. :P

Jeff
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: Yamaha and updates..
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2017, 10:33:00 AM »
Sorry, Jeff, but those new features usually came with the new keyboards - not with software updates.

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Yamaha and updates..
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2017, 10:56:06 AM »
Assuming there is no official Yamaha arranger forum
This might be the place where Yamaha gets its user information for the Genos
Now in the last 1 1/2 decade Yamaha has been very conservative with updates for the Tyros range.


Hi, have to ask why there is no official Yamaha Arranger Forum?? I've brought this up a couple of times on Yamahasynth and been told that their forum is only for synths. Which is strange as the CP line is represented there. :) Have also been told that a definition of a synth is that you can edit the voices to produce your own sounds, I thought that we could do that with the elements on the Tyros 5 using YEM. Bottom line, why does Yamaha not give the same type of support to Arrangers, they seem to imply that arrangers do not deserve the same level of support as the 'professional synth line'.

Christopher.
The Genos and PSR line have their roots in europe.

The Montage, synths and stage piano’s have their development roots in the US. Both US representatives Blake and the bad mister Glenn absolutely have no empathy fo arranger. The synthforum is based and managed by these two people and Yamaha USA.

The same people are also part of the reason why yamaha arrangers never got popular in the US. If you dont promote a type of instruments they dont really sell well. They are part of the pro musicians guild that want to make people believe arrangers are no real instruments but toys for grownups.

And so, thats why there is no room on their forums for the Tyros nor the Genos.
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Yamaha and updates..
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2017, 11:29:25 AM »
I am surprised that members should want a new forum as I thought they were all happy with this one. What would you want that would make it so different. Any technical advice needed is always supplied by Yamaha Technical dept here in the UK by just picking up the phone. The lads here will fall over backwards to help you.

Offline Bachus

Re: Yamaha and updates..
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2017, 11:36:02 AM »
I am surprised that members should want a new forum as I thought they were all happy with this one. What would you want that would make it so different. Any technical advice needed is always supplied by Yamaha Technical dept here in the UK by just picking up the phone. The lads here will fall over backwards to help you.

I definately dont want a new forum
I think thkis is a perfect place to discuss yamaha arrangers

However, i wouldnt mind some noticable presence of yamaha employees that could answer some questions..   but for now knowing that they read these forums is okay..

Thats the big problem with company forums, they are overmoderated and you are not allowed to be overly critical
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 11:37:05 AM by Bachus »
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Online Jeff Hollande

Re: Yamaha and updates..
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2017, 11:56:35 AM »
It looks like in the UK Yamaha are well represented. 

Here in Holland we depend on the European Yamaha Headquarters in Germany.
Calling them is far too expensive and e-mail contact takes ages before one gets an answer. :(

But ... we have a very good Dutch demonstrator : Peter Baartmans.  :)


Jeff
 
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 12:02:43 PM by Jeff Hollande »
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline MBedesem

Re: Yamaha and updates..
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2017, 12:48:43 PM »
I personally have had excellent response and useful advice from the USA keyboard support people on technical and service issues. See https://usa.yamaha.com/support/contacts/pac/
Michael P. Bedesem
mpb@vermontel.net
http://psrtutorial.com/MB/bedesem.html
Tyros 5
 

Offline rattley

Re: Yamaha and updates..
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2017, 03:41:30 PM »
I hope some of what I am reading here is true.  I've gone from PSR2000 to PSR3000 then Tyros 2, 3, 4, 5.  Anytime I did an "update" there was never anything extreme that changed.  Most of these updates fixed minor bugs but never added anything really new.  Now you talk of an "upgrade" which is software or firmware driven that adds major content and changes??  I would love to believe this but don't see it being offered free. I wouldn't mind paying for a significant upgrade if it provided material I would use. Too bad you couldn't pick and choose upgrades you might want.  Any chance these upgrades could come from third parties and not just Yamaha.  Food for thought.............very interesting.  -charley
 

Offline MBedesem

Re: Yamaha and updates..
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2017, 04:50:36 PM »
Rattley

Like you, I made the transition from the early PSRs thru the Tyros series. I did appreciate that they retained compatibility with my old files and the basic way of operating.  It really is no fun starting over.

And how to update older established products is a dilemma for the manufacturer. While it preserves the customer base and relieves the pressure on the development teams, it hinders major enhancements.

In my former life in hi tech electronics, we addressed the problem by creating new product divisions that were able to offer products in addition to the older established ones. The older product divisions were motivated to innovate within their confines of existing hardware-software, while the new ones needed to find areas to serve better with specific instruments. 

Note that the software investment in the older instruments is major. Developed over many years, software is not easy to change without loss of features or resulting in customer operating problems. And, if older developers are long gone, the old code may be almost impossible to understand or modify without problems and delay.

So, with limited staff, little time and a low price objective, a strategy that preserves old features and ways of doing things (i.e. code) while adding new facilities is safe and realistic from the manufactuers point of view.

Just my perspective...

Regards,

Michael


Michael P. Bedesem
mpb@vermontel.net
http://psrtutorial.com/MB/bedesem.html
Tyros 5
 
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