Author Topic: Seamless sound switching  (Read 2337 times)

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Offline Mjm

Seamless sound switching
« on: October 05, 2017, 12:14:27 PM »
Hi, I apologize if this question has already been asked/answered. Does anyone know if the Genos is capable of doing seamless sound switching (SSS) , like the Montage 8 Can? Thanks.

Mark

Ps, Bachus never said anything that warranted him being banned in my opinion.
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2017, 12:30:01 PM »
I have also wondered about this as if you switch between registrations and the sound level is different in each ,you get a sound glitch or if a sound has a long tail like a synth portamento
I wonder If the genos is different to this

All the best
john 8)
 

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2017, 12:41:07 PM »
It was very big in the montage specs.
No word about it in the Genos specs.
So i guess that means a No.

The way it worked on the Montage is you could only use 8 of the 16 channels to have SSS.
I cant see that happening in the Genos.
 

Offline voodoo

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2017, 01:21:13 PM »
It also was very big in the specs of the Nord Stage 3, absolutely new. So I don't believe the Genos does it.

Uli
Yamaha Genos (finally)
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline tomtomsf

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2017, 01:44:36 PM »
I hope that Yamaha has fixed this in the Genos. Many Yamaha players have been annoyed by this for years. The implemetation of this is long, long overdue.

Tom G.
Tyros 4
 

Offline Mjm

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2017, 02:15:02 PM »
Yes, it is annoying. I was hoping,  that since Yamaha already has this technology  (Montage), and since the Genos is a more expensive keyboard, that they would have included it with the Genos.

Mark
 

Offline maartenb

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2017, 06:36:33 AM »
Maybe they are saving it for Genos2.


Maarten
 

Offline Tommy 73

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2017, 07:11:29 AM »
Maybe they are saving it for Genos2.


Maarten
humm... probably :)
((((A@424HZ))))
 

Offline pjd

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2017, 07:18:21 AM »
Yes, it is annoying. I was hoping,  that since Yamaha already has this technology  (Montage), and since the Genos is a more expensive keyboard, that they would have included it with the Genos.

Mark

Hi Mark --

Not all Montage performances incorporate Seamless Sound Switching (SSS). There are limitations.

From the Montage owner's manual:

Seamless Sound Switching is a feature that lets you switch Performances smoothly without any notes being cut off. The SSS feature is available for all Preset Bank Performances in this instrument. However, SSS is available only for the Performance containing Parts 1 to 8, not for the Performance with using Parts 9 to 16.

Thus, only a subset of Montage performances feature SSS.

Effectively, the Montage needs enough tone generation and DSP resources (parts) to hold the current notes while starting the new notes for a different performance. Use more than 8 parts in a performance and SSS is not possible.

I'm not sure that Yamaha can easily port the Montage solution to the XG voice/effect architecture which underlies the PSR, Tyros, Genos series.

I like SSS, too, so please don't shoot the messenger.  :D

-- pj



Offline steakikan

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2017, 07:45:10 AM »
I think probably not (maybe with software tricks it is possible especially the amount of DSP available on Genos). If not mistaken, the switching of sound is not seemless simply because of DSP type change (similar to previous Tyros/PSR), Montage does SSS by making use of part 9-16 DSP and that's why it is not available on performance with 16 parts.

If Genos has 23 DSP slot available, it might be possible for SSS by reusing unused DSP just like Montage (asuming the DSP is same for all parts)
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2017, 07:52:15 AM »
Maybe they are saving it for Genos2.


Maarten

This is part of the Yamaha attitude i dont like..
when people buy an instrument at €4500
Wouldnt it be normal to expect that a company puts all the latest and freatest inside
Espescially when they want this instrument to last for atleast 4 years

Sometimes it seems people,forget how expensive this instrument is..
Yamaha does not need to hold anything back
They have a huge list of ready to implement features from other instruments
Which they can easilly apply all with the current hardware
As PJ stated, this hardware has a huge overcapacity..
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline soundphase

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2017, 08:10:43 AM »
This is part of the Yamaha attitude i dont like..
when people buy an instrument at €4500
Wouldnt it be normal to expect that a company puts all the latest and freatest inside
Espescially when they want this instrument to last for atleast 4 years

Sometimes it seems people,forget how expensive this instrument is..
Yamaha does not need to hold anything back
They have a huge list of ready to implement features from other instruments
Which they can easilly apply all with the current hardware
As PJ stated, this hardware has a huge overcapacity..

They build a "range" of products over the same platform for cost cutting. It is common.

But with Genos, it seems that we get a "top" piano sound although it was reserved for CVP lines some years ago. So, we progress ....
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2017, 08:42:51 AM »
They build a "range" of products over the same platform for cost cutting. It is common.

But with Genos, it seems that we get a "top" piano sound although it was reserved for CVP lines some years ago. So, we progress ....

 So why ask 35% more for the same platform when it is named Genos and not Montage?

Imcan tell you why, there is but one reason the Genos is more expensive then the Montage
Thats because so many arranger players are prepared to pay that price
While professionals buying Monatge are not..


Is it so strange to demand more features for the extra money us arranger players pay?


Imagine that apple has 3 different smartphones based on yhe same hardware platform.. all 3 with different software versions to suit different people...  and one of those 3 models is 2 times as expensive as the cheapest model..   would that work?

No, all other buisenesses when you buy the top model you can expect the model both hardware as well as software to have all the features a company has to offer...


So why is the musical instrument market,different then other high tech markets?



Pricewise its safe to asume the Genos is yamaha’s top model stage instrument..
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline Mjm

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2017, 09:15:12 AM »
Hi Mark --

Not all Montage performances incorporate Seamless Sound Switching (SSS). There are limitations.

From the Montage owner's manual:

Seamless Sound Switching is a feature that lets you switch Performances smoothly without any notes being cut off. The SSS feature is available for all Preset Bank Performances in this instrument. However, SSS is available only for the Performance containing Parts 1 to 8, not for the Performance with using Parts 9 to 16
.

Thus, only a subset of Montage performances feature SSS.

Effectively, the Montage needs enough tone generation and DSP resources (parts) to hold the current notes while starting the new notes for a different performance. Use more than 8 parts in a performance and SSS is not possible.

I'm not sure that Yamaha can easily port the Montage solution to the XG voice/effect architecture which underlies the PSR, Tyros, Genos series.

I like SSS, too, so please don't shoot the messenger.  :D

-- pj

Thanks for the info pj,
I guess it's more complicated than I realized.

Mark
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2017, 12:29:16 PM »
I don't want to get off topic so I will probably post something relating to the Live Control implementation by starting a new thread in the near future.  Same issues as noted above.  Doing some testing and research first.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2017, 12:37:23 PM »
I honestly think that people will be surprised when they get Into the Genos
It has got to be better than the last 8)
 

Offline soundphase

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2017, 12:38:35 PM »
I read that 16 dsp are reserved for song. If only we could choose to use them on style and parts for sss between registrations ....

Offline Bachus

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2017, 02:10:58 PM »
I read that 16 dsp are reserved for song. If only we could choose to use them on style and parts for sss between registrations ....

It probably has to do with yamaha’s hardware and software structure...

In the Montage there are 2 effects/sound
In Genos there is 1 effect/sound ... and 1 variation effect shared by all..
Also one of the song effects can also be used for the microphone
There is no effects on the mulripads, which i think is some kind of hardcoded software part
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2017, 03:34:14 PM »
I honestly think that people will be surprised when they get Into the Genos
It has got to be better than the last 8)

No question about it.  Each new model is ALWAYS better.

BTW... pj's post over here quoting Phil Clendeninn at the Yamaha Synth Forum tells us everything we to know about Yamaha's market approach.

http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,40236.msg313582.html#msg313582

No point in trying to get Yamaha to listen.  They have a marketing strategy and long-term plan for their current "synth" and new "arranger".  I believe now that those of us who want a better instrument... as we know it COULD be, will never see it because Yamaha has other plans and Yamaha does not acknowledge its mistakes.  Representatives like Phil, will defend the company and justify the shortcomings.

So it is.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2017, 10:16:04 PM »
No question about it.  Each new model is ALWAYS better.

BTW... pj's post over here quoting Phil Clendeninn at the Yamaha Synth Forum tells us everything we to know about Yamaha's market approach.

http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,40236.msg313582.html#msg313582

No point in trying to get Yamaha to listen.  They have a marketing strategy and long-term plan for their current "synth" and new "arranger".  I believe now that those of us who want a better instrument... as we know it COULD be, will never see it because Yamaha has other plans and Yamaha does not acknowledge its mistakes.  Representatives like Phil, will defend the company and justify the shortcomings.

So it is.

Joe H

Not just the representatives will allways defend the Yamaha strategy
Many of the long time customers have lost most of their objectivity because of their longtime Yamaha relationship and will defend Yamaha as if it was a personal attack on them.

Now, thats just human nature.
If you are a fan of a footbalclub,
you will also allways defend them.

Many of the Tyros owners are huge fans of Yamaha.
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline soundphase

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2017, 12:06:08 AM »
Not just the representatives will allways defend the Yamaha strategy
Many of the long time customers have lost most of their objectivity because of their longtime Yamaha relationship and will defend Yamaha as if it was a personal attack on them.

Now, thats just human nature.
If you are a fan of a footbalclub,
you will also allways defend them.

Many of the Tyros owners are huge fans of Yamaha.

As far as features and new kind of sounds are concerned, I agree Genos seems to be a Tyros 5.5 .

But I listened to the sound quality from Martin Harris's demo.

And, perhaps I'm wrong (if all is reworked with an external sound system after the recording) , but there is no doubt that a Genos brings me what I look for FIRST, better then T5 : the ability to have a real orchestra under my fingers, with or without style/voice/effect edition.

Combined with the fact that I have never had problems with Yamaha hardware for 40 years (since I was 6), I sold my T5 easily and wait for my Genos

I lost 2500€ (T5+2GB+MS05 = around 5000€, and I sold for 2500€) for (365*3+330) days so 1.76€ per day, it was the T5 cost. I bet it will be quite the same with Genos that I will so easily sell in 3 or 4 years.

So Bachus, it is not really attachment, it is confidence and quality-price-pleasure
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 12:08:23 AM by soundphase »
 

Offline Kari V

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2017, 01:35:08 AM »
Well, let's talk a little bit about market economy:
- every company wants to make as much profit as possible
- every big company wants to get into a monopoly situation in order to be able to set the prices as they want with no competition (look at Microsoft or Apple in its segment of smartphones:  Apple captured 79% of all smartphone industry profits in 2016)

As long as there is competition, it keeps the prices at a reasonable level.

In order to get to the monopoly situation a company needs to set the price level so low that the competitors go bankrupt eventually or leave the market (like Technics).

So there needs to be competition laws (or antitrust laws) in order to keep the competition fair.

Every company needs to have a roadmap for its products in order to survive. Everything cannot be implemented at once: it would cause the products to be too expensive and not be on time on the market.

Let's then look at the Yamaha financial results:

2016:
- revenue $4,031 M
- net income $302 M or 7.5% of the revenue

2017:
- revenue $3,669 M
- net income $420 M or 11.4% of the revenue


So the revenue decreased from $4,031 million to $3,669 million, but the net income (aka net profit) increased from $302 million or 7.5% to $420 million or 11.4%. The 2017 net profit figure is average: thus it cannot be said that Yamaha is robbing its customers (while you could perhaps complain that Apple is, since the corresponding 2016 net profit percentage was 21.2%)

Terms:

Net income, also called net profit, is a concrete concept. This is the renowned bottom line of an income statement and the figure that most comprehensively reflects a business' profitability.
 

Offline DavidB

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2017, 02:05:53 AM »
No point in trying to get Yamaha to listen.  They have a marketing strategy and long-term plan for their current "synth" and new "arranger".  I believe now that those of us who want a better instrument... as we know it COULD be, will never see it because Yamaha has other plans and Yamaha does not acknowledge its mistakes.  Representatives like Phil, will defend the company and justify the shortcomings.

Better is entirely subjective, what's better for you might not be someone else and certainly might not be for Yamaha.

At the end of the day, it's Yamaha's instrument, not yours, not mine, theirs. We choose to buy it, or not. When/if they get it 'wrong', we'll all stop buying it. Until then those who want something other than the instruments they're making should go elsewhere to look for it, and stop criticising Yamaha because they didn't make it to their individual specification.

Regards,
Just don't mention Genos USB drive letter assignments :)
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2017, 02:29:54 AM »
Better is entirely subjective, what's better for you might not be someone else and certainly might not be for Yamaha.

At the end of the day, it's Yamaha's instrument, not yours, not mine, theirs. We choose to buy it, or not. When/if they get it 'wrong', we'll all stop buying it. Until then those who want something other than the instruments they're making should go elsewhere to look for it, and stop criticising Yamaha because they didn't make it to their individual specification.

Regards,

Thats what we do inhere, we share opinions and an opinion is allways subjective..

Nothing wrong with that... if Joe thinks its better, then that is his opinion, there is nothing wrong with that...
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline DavidB

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2017, 02:34:11 AM »
Thats what we do inhere, we share opinions and an opinion is allways subjective..

Nothing wrong with that... if Joe thinks its better, then that is his opinion, there is nothing wrong with that...

Totally agree!!!!

Except Joe appears to be taking it all rather personally. Suggesting there's no point making suggestions because Yamaha aren't listening and that because they're not, that's a huge mistake on their part because they're not building an instrument to his specification.

I was merely putting forward the opinion that it's their instrument and they'll know when they've made a huge mistake because people will stop buying it :)

I don't need a lesson on opinion, I'm full of them :)
Just don't mention Genos USB drive letter assignments :)
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2017, 02:45:55 AM »
Totally agree!!!!

Except Joe appears to be taking it all rather personally. Suggesting there's no point making suggestions because Yamaha aren't listening and that because they're not, that's a huge mistake on their part because they're not building an instrument to his specification.

I was merely putting forward the opinion that it's their instrument and they'll know when they've made a huge mistake because people will stop buying it :)

I don't need a lesson on opinion, I'm full of them :)

Maybe you should pay better attention of what what Yamaha does..

Because
a) many many wishes comming from tyros 5 players on this forum made their way into the Genos.
B) yamaha keeps adding new content and features to their other topmodel the Montage, based on what people on the official Yamaha synth forum ask for..


But it remains to be seen if the Yamaha Genos team will add new things, there is hope, but so far they have during their 5 tyros models not shown any sign of adding any new features or comtent.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 02:57:07 AM by Bachus »
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline DavidB

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2017, 02:52:09 AM »
Maybe you should pay better attention of what what Yamaha does..

Because
a) many many wishes comming from tyros 5 players on this forum made their way into the Genos.
B) yamaha keeps adding new content and features to their other topmodel the Montage, based on what people on the official Yamaha synth forum ask for..

LOL. I think you've lost the plot Bachus, or at least the thread of this thread. Maybe you should pay better attention to what people actually write? :)

I am not upset with Yamaha for anything. Your comment should be aimed at those complaining about Yamaha.

For myself, I'm greatly looking forward to receiving my Genos and playing it for what it is.

Best wishes.
Just don't mention Genos USB drive letter assignments :)
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2017, 07:57:04 AM »
Better is entirely subjective, what's better for you might not be someone else and certainly might not be for Yamaha.

At the end of the day, it's Yamaha's instrument, not yours, not mine, theirs. We choose to buy it, or not. When/if they get it 'wrong', we'll all stop buying it. Until then those who want something other than the instruments they're making should go elsewhere to look for it, and stop criticising Yamaha because they didn't make it to their individual specification.

Regards,

You make a pointless argument.  there is nothing subjective about poor design or sloppy firmware programming.  Those of us who have a lot of experience with MIDI keyboards and MIDI controllers where things were done properly understand from our experience that Yamaha not putting their best effort into some of the new arranger features.

Joe H
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 08:04:32 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2017, 08:03:38 AM »
Totally agree!!!!

Except Joe appears to be taking it all rather personally. Suggesting there's no point making suggestions because Yamaha aren't listening and that because they're not, that's a huge mistake on their part because they're not building an instrument to his specification.

I was merely putting forward the opinion that it's their instrument and they'll know when they've made a huge mistake because people will stop buying it :)

I don't need a lesson on opinion, I'm full of them :)

I think your perception is off a little.  As noted above, I'm not taking things personal, but expressing my point of view from 25 years of personal experience not opinion. We are not all the same.  Some of the detailed functions being discussed are of no interest to all lot of people here. Some people are just more detailed than others and wish to go deeper in programming Voices, style and Multi Pads etc.

Joe H
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 08:46:09 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2017, 08:08:06 AM »
LOL. I think you've lost the plot Bachus, or at least the thread of this thread. Maybe you should pay better attention to what people actually write? :)

I am not upset with Yamaha for anything. Your comment should be aimed at those complaining about Yamaha.

For myself, I'm greatly looking forward to receiving my Genos and playing it for what it is.

Best wishes.

So David, sounds like your needs are simple.  That's fine. You sound a bit like Phil over at Yamaha who implies everyone else is wrong.  If you are not interested in the topic of this thread... why read it.  Just skip it.

And when you start using the Live control knobs and sliders, you might just come to understand what we are saying.

Regards,
Joe H
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 08:09:18 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline alans

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2017, 08:24:11 AM »
Could this be a marketing ploy.

Tyros OS was 11 years old when T5 was released,maybe it was sort of "maxed out" and very little else could be added without difficulty.
So a new keyboard with a new OS was designed with plenty of scope for future upgrades,released at a later date,say 2 years down the road when sales have fallen off a bit .
Companies often keep something in reserve to "pep up" products to keep them fresh.

I don't confess to be technically minded so cannot talk with any authority,but these thoughts did  come to me whilst reading through this thread

Alan
Previous keyboards-Yamaha PSR 410,Technics KN2000,KN5000,KN6000 , KN7000 and Tyros5
 

Offline DavidB

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2017, 09:07:26 AM »
So David, sounds like your needs are simple.  That's fine. You sound a bit like Phil over at Yamaha who implies everyone else is wrong.  If you are not interested in the topic of this thread... why read it.  Just skip it.

And when you start using the Live control knobs and sliders, you might just come to understand what we are saying.

Regards,
Joe H

As I said, all rather personal... Just because Yamaha haven't made the instrument you think they should have you think they're wrong. You are of course entitled to that relatively isolated, subjective opinion, but they'll know when they've got it wrong - people won't buy it.

I am sorry for you that Yamaha don't appear to take notice of you, listen to you, or make the instrument you want. Really, I can understand that must be very frustrating for you. Perhaps my needs are simpler than yours, but then as I suggested, perhaps you're looking at the wrong instrument. This isn't a question of right or wrong, it is merely a question of purchasing the correct instrument for your needs. If one doesn't meet them, then that's not the manufacturers fault is it? Bit like demanding your double bass should sound like a trumpet :)

As you, I am interested in the topic of this thread - Seamless sound switching. You're moaning of Yamaha not listening to you and your criticism because the instrument doesn't meet your needs appeared to have little to do with it.

Perhaps you're right, perhaps I am but it does seem very obvious I will be much happier with the new Genos than you will.

All the best.

Just don't mention Genos USB drive letter assignments :)
 

Offline whataguy

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2017, 09:51:18 AM »
Is anyone here familiar with the old saying 'being hung with a NEW rope'. A lifetime ago, when I was just beginning my professional career (on a vacuum tube Lowrey with no rhythm section) I was fortunate enough to have a Q & A with an old-time organists, Earl Grant about tips and tricks to overcome my nervousness. He told me that if my listeners  knew as much about what I was doing as I did, they'd be up on the stage and I'd be a listener. How about sharing how you achieved a great registration or how to make something easier to do with what the G has rather than bitch about what it can't do. That would be way more helpful. Man, my second wife was like that. Don in MI

Offline Joe H

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2017, 10:09:43 AM »
OK,

I see your just want to argue.  We can't have an honest discussion if you wish to deny other people may have more understanding than yourself about MIDI or electronics or keyboards in general.  I sit and play all the time with great personal pleasure.  I'm not interested in "getting lost" in the Montage's capabilities.

I thank pj for copying Phil Clendeninn's  post from the synth forum. It is now much clearer why Yamaha stopped taking suggestions directly from  power users.  Phil's method of expressing himself is what I would call "carrot on a stick" info.  All sounds good on paper, but he doesn't offer a lot of practical application stuff that anyone can use.  He just alludes to possibilities.

I have been programming Yamaha instruments since around 1992.  It has been a long time practice of Yamaha to write poor documentation.  Good documentation is expensive.  I know because I live with a world class technical writer and systems analyst. Often the really good stuff that can be done with Yamaha instruments buried in the instrument and must implemented with system exclusive.  If Yamaha had done that with the  S970 I wouldn't be posted here now.   When I requested the sysex for the Live Control and arpeggiator, I was told there wasn't any.  It's all there for the Motif, so why wouldn't they provide it for the arranger.  When you look at the Data List Book, this is content not looked at by many let alone implemented.  Yet it's been years for many years now.

If Yamaha implemented a fully functional Multi Pad Creator and included the same editing capabilities in the Mixing Console as for style and song editing, I'm willing to bet most users here would be raving about it and how wonderful it is.  Those things could be improved with a firmware update alone at little cost to Yamaha. And they could sell the firmware upgrade to those who want it to pay for the time it took to program the new features.

What I'm suggesting is not opinion or conjecture, it's simply what I know is possible with relatively little effort to implement.

People here have been asking for a pro level style creator computer-based software for a lot longer than I have been here.

 Now an opinion:  I believe this is the case because Yamaha don't want us to make styles as good that they do.  They want us to buy their styles for $8.50 a pop.  But Yamaha will never be able to meet the world-wide demand for styles(genre) they have NEVER produced.  it simply is not possible.  So why not let us make our own?  They want to sell styles.  I'm very grateful to the author of StyleMagic for his efforts.  At least we have a pretty decent style creator / editor at the moment.

Joe H   
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 10:13:57 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline StuartR

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2017, 10:25:40 AM »
OK,

I thank pj for copying Phil Clendeninn's  post from the synth forum. It is now much clearer why Yamaha stopped taking suggestions directly from  power users.  Phil's method of expressing himself is what I would call "carrot on a stick" info.  All sounds good on paper, but he doesn't offer a lot of practical application stuff that anyone can use.  He just alludes to possibilities.

Joe H

I have to disagree with you about Phil. I've been on the Yamaha synth site for about a year now and have read a bunch of Phil's posts that all had detailed examples of usable solutions on the Montage.
 

Offline DavidB

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2017, 10:41:12 AM »
Joe,

I'd really rather not be arguing with anyone to be honest, but you seem to be missing the entire point of my opinion and dismissing me therefore as someone who doesn't understand or who is inferior to you. I am in no way inferior to you and your somewhat constant inference I am is plain and simply childish, pointless, offensive and adds absolutely nothing to your arguments.

We can't have an honest discussion if you wish to deny other people may have more understanding than yourself about MIDI or electronics or keyboards in general. 

Show me where I have denied your knowledge of midi or claimed you are in any way wrong - at a technical level. Of course you don't have any idea what my level of knowledge is in any subject, but it appears, you're not actually reading what I'm writing, but in fact taking things far more personally than they're ever intended. I have not at any time in any post suggested you're not an expert in any field.

What I'm suggesting is not opinion or conjecture, it's simply what I know is possible with relatively little effort to implement.

Call it opinion or knowledge, this is the crux of our whole regretful disagreement. I am not disagreeing with you on what is possible, and I am not questioning (and haven't anywhere) your vastly superior knowledge. The ONLY point I've made is that you clearly stated Yamaha are wrong to build the instrument they've chosen to with the features it has and that you're upset they're not listening to you. They've built a double bass, you wanted a double bass that could double as a trumpet. They've decided not to build it this time round, they've built the instrument they want to build and that's that. Constantly criticising them won't change that fact but if you really do believe in your knowledge then I'm sure there's more constructive ways to achieve your objective.

Anyway, I don't hold anything against you and there's only so many ways you can say the same thing, if you care to actually read the posts. I suspect I'm done with this discussion on this thread :)

Best wishes,

David.
Just don't mention Genos USB drive letter assignments :)
 

Offline Tommy 73

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2017, 10:52:59 AM »
And here is a nice little tune we can learn on the Genos when we get them ....deep breaths everyone  :) https://youtu.be/ql1EnjVYrZM
((((A@424HZ))))
 

Offline pjd

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #37 on: October 08, 2017, 11:31:32 AM »
I have to disagree with you about Phil. I've been on the Yamaha synth site for about a year now and have read a bunch of Phil's posts that all had detailed examples of usable solutions on the Montage.

I'm in the middle of 7 hours of commercial free football (Red Zone), but I have to stop screaming at the TV for one minute, and agree with Stuart.  ;)

Phil has written about 100 or more tutorials on using Motif, MOX and Montage. Some of his posts explain SA and SA2 better than anything written by Yamaha's arranger folk. He has recorded excellent how to videos and DVDs for synth products. I believe a DVD for Montage is planned, too -- the latest in a series.

I have learned a lot from his tutorials -- stuff that I have applied to using my S950 as well as the S950.

I will now continue screaming at my team who cough up the ball every freaking time on the opponent's 3 yard line.  :P

-- pj


Offline Joe H

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2017, 12:12:13 PM »
Joe,

I'd really rather not be arguing with anyone to be honest, but you seem to be missing the entire point of my opinion and dismissing me therefore as someone who doesn't understand or who is inferior to you. I am in no way inferior to you and your somewhat constant inference I am is plain and simply childish, pointless, offensive and adds absolutely nothing to your arguments.

Show me where I have denied your knowledge of midi or claimed you are in any way wrong - at a technical level. Of course you don't have any idea what my level of knowledge is in any subject, but it appears, you're not actually reading what I'm writing, but in fact taking things far more personally than they're ever intended. I have not at any time in any post suggested you're not an expert in any field.

Call it opinion or knowledge, this is the crux of our whole regretful disagreement. I am not disagreeing with you on what is possible, and I am not questioning (and haven't anywhere) your vastly superior knowledge. The ONLY point I've made is that you clearly stated Yamaha are wrong to build the instrument they've chosen to with the features it has and that you're upset they're not listening to you. They've built a double bass, you wanted a double bass that could double as a trumpet. They've decided not to build it this time round, they've built the instrument they want to build and that's that. Constantly criticising them won't change that fact but if you really do believe in your knowledge then I'm sure there's more constructive ways to achieve your objective.

Anyway, I don't hold anything against you and there's only so many ways you can say the same thing, if you care to actually read the posts. I suspect I'm done with this discussion on this thread :)

Best wishes,

David.

Well DavidB,

I think just about all of your above statements about me are just a grand projection of yourself.  If you say you don't want to argue, then stop arguing. I'm not inclined to respond to any more of your personal attacks.

Regards,
Joe H
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 02:46:35 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2017, 12:13:54 PM »
I'm in the middle of 7 hours of commercial free football (Red Zone), but I have to stop screaming at the TV for one minute, and agree with Stuart.  ;)

Phil has written about 100 or more tutorials on using Motif, MOX and Montage. Some of his posts explain SA and SA2 better than anything written by Yamaha's arranger folk. He has recorded excellent how to videos and DVDs for synth products. I believe a DVD for Montage is planned, too -- the latest in a series.

I have learned a lot from his tutorials -- stuff that I have applied to using my S950 as well as the S950.

I will now continue screaming at my team who cough up the ball every freaking time on the opponent's 3 yard line.  :P

-- pj

Phil is good in explaining how things work for sure..
He tells you how yamaha intends you to use the features

But he is the worst at listening to other people and their complains and wishes..
He can not understand that people want to do things with an instrument that yamaha never tought off

And he has a grudge against arrangers..


Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #40 on: October 08, 2017, 02:50:43 PM »
Phil is good in explaining how things work for sure..
He tells you how yamaha intends you to use the features

But he is the worst at listening to other people and their complains and wishes..
He can not understand that people want to do things with an instrument that yamaha never tought off

And he has a grudge against arrangers..

Amen!

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline pjd

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #41 on: October 08, 2017, 03:41:09 PM »
Folks, I have to say how uncomfortable I am with comments that T off on a particular person, including folks who work for Yamaha. It's OK to disagree with their opinions, but some of these comments are getting a little too personal.

I've met several of the folks who work for and represent Yamaha in the USA. None of them wear horns.  :) They are generally accomplished musicians with good ears. It may not be apparent because of the rather cold, impersonal medium of on-line forums, but they do listen.

Further, these folks work in the North American outpost of a Japanese company. Having worked in similar circumstances, albeit for a German multinational, it's hard to get the central office to respond, especially when the main language is not English and the corporate culture is not Western. I could write a book about this, but I think you get the idea already.

A suggestion in light of our desire to get Yamaha to adopt our recommendations for future features -- please do not alienate the people who will (may, must) be our advocates for change.

Thanks for listening and now the fourth quarter of the Seattle game -- pj
 
The following users thanked this post: StuartR

Offline Tommy 73

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #42 on: October 08, 2017, 09:38:23 PM »
Folks, I have to say how uncomfortable I am with comments that T off on a particular person, including folks who work for Yamaha. It's OK to disagree with their opinions, but some of these comments are getting a little too personal.

I've met several of the folks who work for and represent Yamaha in the USA. None of them wear horns.  :) They are generally accomplished musicians with good ears. It may not be apparent because of the rather cold, impersonal medium of on-line forums, but they do listen.

Further, these folks work in the North American outpost of a Japanese company. Having worked in similar circumstances, albeit for a German multinational, it's hard to get the central office to respond, especially when the main language is not English and the corporate culture is not Western. I could write a book about this, but I think you get the idea already.

A suggestion in light of our desire to get Yamaha to adopt our recommendations for future features -- please do not alienate the people who will (may, must) be our advocates for change.

Thanks for listening and now the fourth quarter of the Seattle game -- pj
i have to agree with the above things are getting a little warm round here recently...we can all make are points in may ways and to show respect and common courtesy wherever this belongs then this must be Paramount  :)
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 09:39:53 PM by Tommy 73 »
((((A@424HZ))))
 

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #43 on: October 08, 2017, 09:43:49 PM »
Folks, I have to say how uncomfortable I am with comments that T off on a particular person, including folks who work for Yamaha. It's OK to disagree with their opinions, but some of these comments are getting a little too personal.

I've met several of the folks who work for and represent Yamaha in the USA. None of them wear horns.  :) They are generally accomplished musicians with good ears. It may not be apparent because of the rather cold, impersonal medium of on-line forums, but they do listen.

Further, these folks work in the North American outpost of a Japanese company. Having worked in similar circumstances, albeit for a German multinational, it's hard to get the central office to respond, especially when the main language is not English and the corporate culture is not Western. I could write a book about this, but I think you get the idea already.

A suggestion in light of our desire to get Yamaha to adopt our recommendations for future features -- please do not alienate the people who will (may, must) be our advocates for change.

Thanks for listening and now the fourth quarter of the Seattle game -- pj


You have  point here..
I will take it into consideration when posting in the future.

« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 09:47:13 PM by Spirit of the old South »
 

Offline pjd

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #44 on: October 10, 2017, 10:47:47 AM »
I read that 16 dsp are reserved for song. If only we could choose to use them on style and parts for sss between registrations ....

Getting back to the topic....

That's an astute observation, soundphase!

Yamaha had to figure out how to distribute the much larger DSP resources available in the new architecture. The simplest scheme from both the developer's and user's point of view is a fixed assignment, including one DSP per each of the sixteen song parts. No confusion -- always one DSP insert per song part.

This scheme may (will) prove to be overly rigid.

I do not play over MIDI songs. I freeze MIDI songs to MP3 or WAV, and play over audio. That means that I will only use the 16 song DSPs when developing and freezing to MP3/WAV.

I wish there was a way to set an option that makes those 16 DSPs available for R1, R2, R3, LEFT SSS.

Thanks for pointing this out -- pj
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #45 on: October 10, 2017, 11:14:15 AM »
And here is a nice little tune we can learn on the Genos when we get them ....deep breaths everyone  :) https://youtu.be/ql1EnjVYrZM



Decent music, well written and performed   Seamless father and son switching 
                                It puts the demos to shame with that moooing singer
« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 11:16:09 AM by ugawoga »
 
The following users thanked this post: organaut, Tommy 73

Offline Tommy 73

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2017, 12:27:33 PM »


Decent music, well written and performed   Seamless father and son switching 
                                It puts the demos to shame with that moooing singer
while we are waiting to get are hands on Genos as we talk about music and are key's ...so as Genos and Montage are being talked about together round here ... https://youtu.be/P2wSuli-1sE
((((A@424HZ))))
 

Offline organaut

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2017, 12:51:17 PM »
The question of this topic about seemless sound switching. Does Genos Have this capability? I suppose we won’t know till we get to try one out.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 02:11:42 PM by organaut »
 

Offline Tommy 73

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2017, 02:16:06 PM »
The question of this topic about seemless sound switching. Does Genos Have this capability? I suppose we won’t know till we get to try one out.
i think its safe to say no but I'll take a bullet if I'm wrong as I don't generally assume anything ....
((((A@424HZ))))
 

Offline pjd

Re: Seamless sound switching
« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2017, 04:18:49 PM »
The question of this topic about seemless sound switching. Does Genos Have this capability? I suppose we won’t know till we get to try one out.

Hi --

SSS is a high demand feature requested for quite a long time by many Yamaha players. Yamaha is certainly aware of this request.

If SSS is not part of the specifications -- and it is not -- then Genos does not support it. Yamaha would definitely highlight SSS if it supported it.

That's why I've moved on and would like to figure out how to add it. I think the designers need more flexibility than a rigid rule saying "One DSP for every song part, all the time." Flexibility would free up DSPs needed to support SSS.

All the best -- pj