Author Topic: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?  (Read 2273 times)

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Offline Enildo

Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
« on: August 25, 2017, 04:18:44 AM »
Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?

Hello guys!
Here in Brazil I woke up today with the news of this video.
A guy made guitar loops play with chord changes as well as with changing the loop time without stopping and without damaging the chord.

If it's true, I think I'll keep my s970 for about 20 years! Lol
I do not even want the "Genos"! Lol

Enildo

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPHGZnCLess
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 02:06:09 PM by Enildo »
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Offline Enildo

Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2017, 05:14:07 AM »
Anyone know how it's possible?
I'm studying and investigating but so far I have not got it yet.

Enildo
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Offline Enildo

Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2017, 10:49:49 AM »
Personally I discovered that they use the "CASM Editor" to leave one channel of the guitar only for larger chords and the other channel for smaller chords only.
Does anyone who manages editing know how this is possible.

I will only rest when I learn! Lol
Thank you all!

Enildo
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2017, 11:50:50 AM »
Personally I discovered that they use the "CASM Editor" to leave one channel of the guitar only for larger chords and the other channel for smaller chords only.
Does anyone who manages editing know how this is possible.

I will only rest when I learn! Lol
Thank you all!

Enildo

I don't think it is that complicated.  He is just turning style parts on and off and he also changed the tempo.  There are plenty of styles with guitar parts in them. It is possible to make style parts from the guitar Multi Pad as well.  Then you could buy Guitar loops from Twiddly Bits and turn those into style guitar parts as well using midi2style or StyleMagic.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 
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Offline Enildo

Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2017, 10:07:01 AM »
I don't think it is that complicated.  He is just turning style parts on and off and he also changed the tempo.  There are plenty of styles with guitar parts in them. It is possible to make style parts from the guitar Multi Pad as well.  Then you could buy Guitar loops from Twiddly Bits and turn those into style guitar parts as well using midi2style or StyleMagic.

Joe H

Thank you Joe H! I already expected your help. I know that this forum has many people qualified and you, of course, are one of them.

Enildo
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Offline Enildo

Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2017, 10:34:32 AM »
First, I sincerely apologize for my poor English. I'm using the Google Translate tool.
The information I have at the moment, let's go there:

1) First all major chord loops are recorded on a real guitar
  (C, C#/Db, D, D#/Eb, E, F, F#/Gb, G, G#/Ab, A, A#/Bb and B).

2) As all the minor chord loops on a real guitar are recorded
(Cm, C#m/Dbm, Dm, D#m/Ebm, E, F, F#m/Gbm, Gm, G#m/Abm, Am, A#m/Bbm and Bm).

3) In the "CASM EDITOR PROGRAM", a style in the "SFF1" format and in the "CASM EDITOR", in the "CHORDE MUTE SETTINGS" in the "C" button, a channel (Chord1 for example) is used only for major chords and other channel (Chord2 for example), only to minor chords.

4) When a major chord plays (on channel 12, for example), the other minor chord channel (channel 13, for example) is muted. And vice versa.

My question is:
How can I put 12 larger chord loops and 12 smaller chord loops within the same style?
How does the keyboard end up which loop to use at the time I am playing a chord of "E" (Em) or "A" (Am), for example?

I hope I expressed myself well.

Thank you Joe H and thank you all!

Enildo
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Offline Enildo

Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2017, 10:53:55 AM »
First, I sincerely apologize for my poor English. I'm using the Google Translate tool.
The information I have at the moment, let's go there:

1) First all major chord loops are recorded on a real guitar
  (C, C#/Db, D, D#/Eb, E, F, F#/Gb, G, G#/Ab, A, A#/Bb and B).

2) As all the minor chord loops on a real guitar are recorded
(Cm, C#m/Dbm, Dm, D#m/Ebm, E, F, F#m/Gbm, Gm, G#m/Abm, Am, A#m/Bbm and Bm).

3) In the "CASM EDITOR PROGRAM", a style in the "SFF1" format and in the "CASM EDITOR", in the "CHORDE MUTE SETTINGS" in the "C" button, a channel (Chord1 for example) is used only for major chords and other channel (Chord2 for example), only to minor chords.

4) When a major chord plays (on channel 12, for example), the other minor chord channel (channel 13, for example) is muted. And vice versa.

My question is:
How can I put 12 larger chord loops and 12 smaller chord loops within the same style?
How does the keyboard end up which loop to use at the time I am playing a chord of "E" (Em) or "A" (Am), for example?

I hope I expressed myself well.

Thank you Joe H and thank you all!

Enildo

I was wondering when we use "RECYCLE" to loop, and when we export beyond the loop it generates a "MIDI" file.
And this midi file, we know it can be turned into a style channel.

Enildo
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Offline Joe H

Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2017, 12:51:31 PM »
Enildo,

I have no experience with programming guitar chords for styles, but I think you are looking at this wrong.  You might want to look at a Yamaha style that has guitar chords or arpeggios to see what notes are used.  The keyboard Operating System will translate the notes (when correct) to follow the left hand chords.  Also the CASM settings must be right.

I may not be able to you help you with this because I do not use CASM Editor, I use StyleMagic.  Hopefully one the the computer programmers will post here to help you understand what notes to use in the loops.

I also do understand what you mean by larger and smaller loops.  And finally... no you cannot have 12 variations of loops in a single style file because there are only 16 channels to work with. 

The way Alternate style Parts work is that the chord types are defined in the CASM.  So a Part can play a chord or arpeggio one way with a major chord, and play a different way with a minor chord.

Example:  Chord 1 Part (channel 12) can play the chord a certain way for major chords (maybe strum a certain way - long chord?), then assign channel 4 to also to play the Chord 1 Part for minor chords (and chord strums a different way - short chord?)

So channel 12 and channel 4 can both be assigned to Chord 1 style Part, but each one will only play with the chord types you specify in the CASM settings.  It's actually possible to have 3 chord types.  Major, Minor, and 7th chords.  so you could have 3 different channels assigned to Chord 1 style Part for more variation.

The information I cannot help with is what the correct notes are for these guitar loops.  When the correct notes are programmed in the loop, the Operating System will re-map the notes to the correct guitar fingering.  That's why I suggest looking a a Yamaha style to learn how Yamaha did it.

Regards,
Joe H

« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 12:55:34 PM by Joe H »
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My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 
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Offline Enildo

Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2017, 01:57:16 PM »
Thank you Joe H! Your information is very valuable.
I will continue searching until I find a light.

Thanks for all the information and tips also to the creators and directors of this forum.

Enildo
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

Offline Enildo

Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2017, 05:19:47 AM »
Hello everybody!
I found another video with the same subject.

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L419Hty6XVQ

Enildo
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2017, 05:59:27 AM »
Have you seen this video, which seems to give a similar effect using one of the various sounds within preset guitar MegaVoices.

In this example he is using the 'Mega SolidGuitar' voice at a fixed velocity of 40, which would produce an 'open med' string sound.  The video  contains information about the CASM settings used...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tomCFY-HKPY

Presumably the original video is using an expansion voice made from real guitar samples, which is then used in a similar manner as here.  :-\

Regards

Ian
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 06:22:10 AM by tyrosaurus »
 

Offline Enildo

Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2017, 06:41:03 AM »
Very good video Ian! I learned other Megavoices tricks.
Thank you so!

But my question in this post is about "Audio Loops".
In the loop recording the chord is already filled (Do-Mi-Sol).
The guys are recording a loop of all live chords, from C to B, and placing to play on the chord channels (Chord 12 or 13, etc.).

For those who have Facebook, take a look at this video: https://www.facebook.com/DINIZINHOSAMPLERS/videos/1272502872860487/

Big hug,

Enildo
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 07:26:25 AM by Enildo »
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Offline Joe H

Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2017, 07:32:59 AM »
Enildo,

Since I don't know what the guy in the first video is saying, I'm not sure what it is you wish to accomplish. This is the first time you mention audio loops. 

You cannot place audio loops on MIDI channels unless they are REX2 files. The REX2 files have to be converted in YEM software to a style Part. 

The arranger is NOT a DAW (digital audio workstation).  It does not work like a DAW. What I'm saying is that you cannot insert audio loops that are recorded with different chord progressions into a style.  Our arranger are MIDI instruments not audio.  There are MIDI guitar loops out there that will accomplish what you want to do.

PS:  I've sent you a PM.  I'll be back in touch.

Regards,
Joe H
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 07:39:36 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Enildo

Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2017, 07:48:45 AM »
Enildo,

Since I don't know what the guy in the first video is saying, I'm not sure what it is you wish to accomplish. This is the first time you mention audio loops. 

You cannot place audio loops on MIDI channels unless they are REX2 files. The REX2 files have to be converted in YEM software to a style Part. 

The arranger is NOT a DAW (digital audio workstation).  It does not work like a DAW. What I'm saying is that you cannot insert audio loops that are recorded with different chord progressions into a style.  Our arranger are MIDI instruments not audio.  There are MIDI guitar loops out there that will accomplish what you want to do.

PS:  I've sent you a PM.  I'll be back in touch.

Regards,
Joe H

Hello Joe H!

That's what I'm talking about, Joe! Maybe I can not express myself well, because my English is very bad.

Guys are putting audio loops on Bass, Chord1, Chord2, Pad and Phrases. Maybe they are using "REX2" files and using some "Midi" file to run the styles.
In this last video (from Facebook) shows them recording the audio loops on a real guitar and then putting to run on the PSR s970.

Thank you,
Enildo
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

Offline Enildo

Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2017, 07:55:26 AM »
I modified the title of this post for better understanding.
 "Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?"

Enildo
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

Offline Enildo

Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2017, 12:48:11 PM »
Hello everybody!

After 1 month studying the subject, I discovered how it is possible to put audio chord loops within the chord chords in s970, with chord progression. There are several steps, and for that to be possible, some programs are necessary.
The truth is that it is limited and can not do all the possible possibilities of chords, because each channel works for one type of chord (for example one channel for larger chords, one for minor chords only, one for chord with "Maj7" , etc) but you can do a lot of interesting things. You can choose both "wav" files as well as "Rx2" files.
You can record chords ready and when you make chord changes in your left hand, the keyboard will change.
I am still finalizing the studies, but "yes" it is possible!

Greetings,
Enildo
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

Offline voodoo

Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2017, 06:36:15 AM »
Since I don't know what the guy in the first video is saying, I'm not sure what it is you wish to accomplish. This is the first time you mention audio loops. 

This was my first reaction. The video does not use audio loops, but simple midi guitar. So there's no magic. ;)
Yamaha PSR-S970 (sold)
Yamaha Genos (ordered)
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline Enildo

Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2017, 06:41:28 AM »
This was my first reaction. The video does not use audio loops, but simple midi guitar. So there's no magic. ;)

You're wrong Uli. The video uses audio loops.
I'm telling the truth and I assure you so!

Enildo
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2017, 07:19:59 AM »
You're wrong Uli. The video uses audio loops.
I'm telling the truth and I assure you so!

Enildo

Enildo,

Our style file is MIDI.  It is not possible to use audio files directly in a style Part.  You must use YEM to create a MIDI Voice from a WAV file or REX2 file.  Those are the facts.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Enildo

Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2017, 07:54:45 AM »
Enildo,

Our style file is MIDI.  It is not possible to use audio files directly in a style Part.  You must use YEM to create a MIDI Voice from a WAV file or REX2 file.  Those are the facts.

Joe H

Exactly Joe!
I use a full chord, for example "C" (do + mi + sol) that was recorded with the metronome at 90 bpm ... Then I go to the YEM and create a voice with all the chords made. Each key will correspond to a major or minor chord (C, C #, D, D #, E ... B
  and Cm, C # m, Dm, D # m, Em ... Bm). The chord channels (from 11 to 16) will play my full chord in a style with 90bpm tempo.
Using Rx2 files it is possible to change the time.
You can play larger and smaller chords with progression.

Later I will do a "PPI" file and I will send it to you!

I do not know if I'm making you understand. Lol

Regards,
Enildo
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

Offline Enildo

Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2017, 08:00:32 AM »
Let's start from the premise that a "Sample" (Wav) file is an audio file.
This file is placed in a voice, which is mounted on the YEM or RECYCLE.
So this voice is an audio file.
Well, these audio files I'll put in an octave of the keyboard (for example C-1 to B-1).
After placing 12 chords (which can be 12 chords) you can select those 12 chords or chords with your left hand in a style,
making a progression to each chord played with the left hand.

Enildo
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 08:02:24 AM by Enildo »
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Offline Joe H

Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2017, 08:03:09 AM »
Exactly Joe!
I use a full chord, for example "C" (do + mi + sol) that was recorded with the metronome at 90 bpm ... Then I go to the YEM and create a voice with all the chords made. Each key will correspond to a major or minor chord (C, C #, D, D #, E ... B
  and Cm, C # m, Dm, D # m, Em ... Bm). The chord channels (from 11 to 16) will play my full chord in a style with 90bpm tempo.
Using Rx2 files it is possible to change the time.
You can play larger and smaller chords with progression.

Later I will do a "PPI" file and I will send it to you!

I do not know if I'm making you understand. Lol

Regards,
Enildo

I honestly do not see the benefit of doing things that way since the MIDI Parts follow our ACMP left-hand chords.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Enildo

Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2017, 08:06:00 AM »
I ride a voice samples (recorded in my actual acoustic guitar) with 12 major chords and minor chords 12.
And according to the chord I do in the left hand (C, Am, F, G, etc.) the keyboard makes the progression by selecting the correct chord.

Enildo
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 08:08:46 AM by Enildo »
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Offline Enildo

Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2017, 08:07:42 AM »
I honestly do not see the benefit of doing things that way since the MIDI Parts follow our ACMP left-hand chords.

Joe H

The benefit would be to put an actual musical instrument within a style.

Enildo
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

Offline Enildo

Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2017, 08:11:33 AM »
Honestly, it's a lot of work. But nothing in life is free!
Guitars and guitars have always been a challenge for keyboards arrangers to emulate. This is a possibility, still limited, but that can brighten up a very live presentation.

Enildo
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

Offline Enildo

Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2017, 08:14:11 AM »
I'm going to put together a "PPF" and a "PPI" and then I'll send you Joe, to find out what you think.
I'm just finishing the job in a few days!

Enildo
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2017, 08:18:06 AM »
I think the topic of realistic guitars will come up over here:  http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,39857.msg309592/topicseen.html#msg309592

So keep an eye on that thread.  The Motif Guitar Mega Arps sound very realistic.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Enildo

Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2017, 08:26:24 AM »
I think the topic of realistic guitars will come up over here:  http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,39857.msg309592/topicseen.html#msg309592

So keep an eye on that thread.  The Motif Guitar Mega Arps sound very realistic.

Joe H

Are you suggesting that this topic should change to "Other Features"?
If it is, it can be moved by an administrator without any problem.

Enildo
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

Offline Enildo

Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2017, 08:32:41 AM »
Always wanted to record an external musical instrument into a style.
When you record note by note, it is not the same as recording a complete chord.
The keyboard is capable of reproducing and imitating much, but nothing like playing a real guitar. A bass, drums, piano, synths, are acceptable, but the sound of a real guitar is still far from real sound.

Enildo
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2017, 09:07:52 AM »
Are you suggesting that this topic should change to "Other Features"?
If it is, it can be moved by an administrator without any problem.

Enildo

No, what I'm saying is that you can achieve real guitar loops in MIDI.  I have hundreds of real guitar MIDI loops that were recorded with a MIDI guitar.   That thread is discussing arpeggios.  Yamaha has created realistic guitar arpeggios with MIDI.  I just wanted you to aware that there is realistic MIDI guitar loops.

I'm of the opinion that it is not necessary to record audio guitar strums or arppeggios.  If you want a new guitar sound, there are probably expansion packs with new guitar sounds.  If you want to do something really special, then I guess REX2 is the way to go.

REX2 is converted to MIDI Voice in YEM.  While you can think of it as audio... ALL MIDI Voices in your keyboard are audio that have been converted to MIDI Voices.

Regards,
Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Misu

Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2017, 10:20:46 AM »
Hi,
This topic is up to me special of my English, but not only, I have something for you to study from my Romanian custom style topic
Same link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx6qwlpS1CgHa01jRVNDckRhNUk/view?usp=sharing
Analyze the arpeggio sampler separately in the right hand and how it works in style, maybe can do something similar for your guitar without use 2 track.

Hope to help
Mihai

Offline Enildo

Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2017, 11:52:37 AM »
Hi,
This topic is up to me special of my English, but not only, I have something for you to study from my Romanian custom style topic
Same link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx6qwlpS1CgHa01jRVNDckRhNUk/view?usp=sharing
Analyze the arpeggio sampler separately in the right hand and how it works in style, maybe can do something similar for your guitar without use 2 track.

Hope to help
Mihai

Thanks Mihai, but the link have password.
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

Offline Enildo

Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2017, 12:05:04 PM »
No, what I'm saying is that you can achieve real guitar loops in MIDI.  I have hundreds of real guitar MIDI loops that were recorded with a MIDI guitar.   That thread is discussing arpeggios.  Yamaha has created realistic guitar arpeggios with MIDI.  I just wanted you to aware that there is realistic MIDI guitar loops.

I'm of the opinion that it is not necessary to record audio guitar strums or arppeggios.  If you want a new guitar sound, there are probably expansion packs with new guitar sounds.  If you want to do something really special, then I guess REX2 is the way to go.

REX2 is converted to MIDI Voice in YEM.  While you can think of it as audio... ALL MIDI Voices in your keyboard are audio that have been converted to MIDI Voices.

Regards,
Joe H



Ok, I got it!

Joe, in my region and in my country has a style of music very well known and played here that is called "FORRÓ" (popular Brazilian musical style), the guitars for these styles are very simple but very peculiar guitars. When the guys showed me that way to record the guitars, it was the first time I ever heard a real guitar forró. The other ways to record (recording the whole rhythm directly on the keyboard), using real guitar samples, are good but leave out.

I will continue studying and researching this new way of using styles on the keyboard and then I will introduce you to all the results. Maybe this will serve other performances that we have not found out yet.

Thanks for your opinions Joe H, you make a big difference in this forum.

greetings,
Enildo
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

Offline Misu

Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2017, 10:31:28 PM »

Offline Enildo

Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2017, 08:07:37 AM »
When word fail, Music speaks!