Author Topic: tyros5 behringer FCB1010 setup  (Read 869 times)

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Offline Natureflyer

tyros5 behringer FCB1010 setup
« on: August 14, 2017, 06:47:55 AM »
Hi folks

After several attempts to make the setup to have Tyros5 to work fluently with Behringer FCB1010 Uno Im so close to quit.;)  Ofcource reason is that I know so little about midi Notes, CC PC ,,, I go confused, even red several manuals several times and hours of try and error.

Target for FCB footpads  as example could be.
1-  Main A
2-  Main B
3-  Main C
4-  Main D
5-  BRAKE
6-  LEFT On/Off
7-  Multipad 1
8-  VOCAL HARMONY
9-  FINGERED/FING ON BASS
10-RIGHT 3 On/Off

I have Behringer FCB1010 uno Control Center which Im able to use somehow

I think I miss at least
- right CC# values in Tyros5 ? for FCB pads 1-5
- right PC# number to match Tyros5 for FCB pads 6-10
- and probably I mis something don,t know what

I have had difficulties to upload stuff to Tyros even both are at channel 16

Once I was able to communicate between those two but then Tyros actually played the real note sounds???  ( I might have had only note values on FCB ???)


I think I have now FCB set up some way.  (maybe)

What I need ...
- to get the right Tyros values?
- shoul I user the MIDI Pedal1 template to edit and save?
- should I do something to Midi receive table?
- something else ...

Oh boy!  Old Man and so lost ;)))  Now life should be easy ;)

Can someone assist ? Please.

cheers

William Finland
natureflyer@me.com
 

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: tyros5 behringer FCB1010 setup
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2017, 08:58:15 AM »
Hi William,

Note that I don't have either an FCB1010 or a Yamaha MFC10, but I have looked quite closely into using them with a Tyros4, so the following might be of use.

Probably the most important thing to get right is the MIDI Channel that the FCB transmits on and the channel that the keyboard receives on.

These must match for the keyboard to react to the FCB!

The factory MIDI transmit channel of the FCB is 1 I believe, but the default for the Tyros5's MFC10 template is 16.  The default setting for the MIDI port used by the Tyros also seems to be 'OFF', so you probably need to select and set the port that you are using on the Tyros for the cable from the FCB, and set the transmit channel on the FCB to the same as the receive channel on the Tyros.

You won't be able to program the FCB from the Tyros as you can with the Yamaha MCF10, but if you have the FCB programming software, this won't matter.

The MFC10 template on the Tyros provides a simple way of programming the simple functions that you have listed since these can all be assigned to an incoming MIDI note number in the template table and then you just need to program each switch on the FCB to send the relevant note when pressed.

You will see the range of notes that the Tyros will intercept in the table in the template.  However they are shown in the form of 'C#-1' and so on, rather than the actual MIDI note number. 

The notes shown in the Tyros template on my T4 range from 'C#-1' to 'F#1'. I don't know if this is the same for two variants of the T5.

Be aware that Yamaha use this range to actually represent MIDI notes #13 to #42, which in many other peoples' octave numbering system would be considered 'C#0' to F#2.  Yamaha likes to use a different octave numbering system to most other people, and Yamaha typically quotes the octave as 1 lower than others (presumably they think that also using 1 to 128 instead of 0 to 127 for MIDI Program Change numbers is not confusing enough by itself!  ::) )  So when Yamaha refers to 'C#-1' it means MIDI note #13, which is often regarded as being 'C#0' by others!

To be fair to Yamaha I don't think that octaves numbers have been officially defined, unlike MID note numbers which are clear and should be unambiguous.  All that you need to do is make sure that the correct action occurs when the Tyros receives a note from the MCB. If it doesn't do what you expected try setting the note to one octave higher.

To be honest despite the considerable extra cost of the Yamaha MFC10, it seems to be much better made than the Behringer, and more likely to withstand 'heavy feet' over time.  This, coupled with the relative ease of use of the MFC10 with a Tyros keyboard, might make it worth the extra cost!

Hopefully the above may help to you to make some progress with your problem.


Regards

Ian 
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 09:00:46 AM by tyrosaurus »
 

Offline Natureflyer

Re: tyros5 behringer FCB1010 setup
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2017, 11:53:15 AM »
Hi Ian

Thank you so much for you trouble to answer.

It was encouraging.  Ill sure will take one (ot two) tries tomorrow.

If I recap what i should try is;

- making sure that FCB transmits on cannel 16 as tyros receives
- I use (and send) only note values from each of the 10 foot tabs ( trying to figure the right ones according to your quidance) is there somewhere a Yamaha table of the Midi values <-> Tyros actions

(So I have been close when I managed to hear the different note sounds from Tyros when pressing Fcb tabs)

Do I have to understand something of thr Progremme Change values?


Hope I manage to win this battle with Fcb and release the leaning hours to learning T5 itself.

Once more.  Thanks alot.  No way to succeed witout you guys assistance.

Excellent forum.

Cheers ot now

William
 

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: tyros5 behringer FCB1010 setup
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2017, 12:22:05 PM »
Hi William,

I decided to reply to your PM in a forum post.

The FCB1010 User Group should know much more about the device that I do, but since it is so simple  using the FCB programming software (that I have at least) to set up the presets to each transmit a single note of your choosing.

The Tyros MCF10 template works by simply listening for specific incoming MIDI notes on the relevant MIDI channel and translating them into an action set by you in the template. In fact the incoming notes can be from any external MIDI source, a DAW or MIDI player or MIDI-OX for example, the Tyros does not care as long as the notes appear on the correct channel.

So since the template makes it simple to trigger actions using MIDI notes, why bother setting up the FCB to send System Exclusive or CC messages, as long as the functions that you want to trigger are listed in the Tyros template?

There may well be a good reason of course, but I can't check this out because I don't have either pedal.  Bear in mind that only the Tyros models have the MCF10 template, and so you would not be able to use MIDI notes to control actions on a PSR model for example.  Perhaps the suggestions from the User Group were made by people unaware of the Tyros template!  I would certainly be trying the MIDI note method first if I had an FCB1010!  If you decide not to use notes, then good luck finding the SysEx or CC for many of the functions supported by the Tyros template!

To me it seems easy to program the FCB with notes using the software.

The software that I have uses MIDI note numbers, so there should be no ambiguity about how a note is named. It is quite old and is probably not the UNO version that you have.  It is called 'FBC1010 PC Editor - Version 2.99-2' developed by Ed Dixon.  It contains a 'spreadsheet' view of the settings which didn't seem to allow putting a MIDI note into a preset.  However there is a configuration page which selects the columns to be displayed, and 'Note' was turned off here!  Once I turned it on, it was  easy to add the correct notes to the presets.  Presumably it is easy to just program presets with single notes in your software.

There are 30 'pseudo switches' in the Tyros template, numbered from 0 to 29.  Each of these is associated with a specific MIDI note and this note can't be changed for a switch.   

However the FUNCTION activated by each switch can be changed to any of the 91 options (including OFF) on my T4, using the 4, 5 or 6 button pairs below the display.  You can assign the same function to more than one 'switch' if you really want to!
 
Since I don't know what the default functions are for each switch on a T5, the safest thing to do is to change the functions currently assigned to each of the first 10 switches so that they are set to what you want each one to do.  If you do this, the notes that you need to program into the FBC presets are those which are shown in the Tyros template for them translated into MIDI note numbers. 

These are shown in the Tyros template as from 'C#-1' for switch 0, up to 'Bb-1' for switch 9. This corresponds to MIDI note #13 to 22 and you need to program this ascending range of notes into the first 10 FCB presets.
 
You can set the rest of the switches in the Tyros template to OFF if you like, to be safe, but unless a note associated with these is received by the Tyros on the MIDI channel being used for the pedal, it shouldn't matter.

Once both the Tyros template and the FCB have been set up, make sure that the MIDI port that you are using for the FCB is turned on in the template and try it out!  The function assigned to each switch is not retained when you turn off the power, so after making them you need to save the MIDI template that includes them as a User template.  Once a template has been selected (Preset or User) this will be applied each time the power is turned on, so your assignments will be restored although if you carry out a system reset, the MIDI template used will revert back to the 'ALL PARTS' preset.

To summarise what I am suggesting you need to open your normal MIDI template in edit mode and Tab to the MFC10 page.

On this page set Switch No 0 in the Foot Switch Setting table of to the function 'MAIN A' using the 4 to 6 buttons under the display.   This Switch will be triggered by note 'C#-1'. Whichever octave numbering system you use, this Switch responds to MIDI note #13.  You need to program the FBC preset 1 with this note.

Repeat using Switch No 1 to MAIN B and program FBC preset #2 with MIDI note #14

Repeat with the remaining 8 switches, setting the desired function and programming the associated FBC preset with the next MIDI note up to the final one in FBC Preset 10 which should be MIDI note #22.

As I was posting, I have just seen your latest post - regarding the MIDI channel to use, you can select any one as long as the FCB is set to transmit on the same channel that the Tyros receives on (as set in the Tyros MFC10 template).  Channel 16 is probably a good one to try, since unless you have a specific external MIDI device which is transmitting low notes (#13 to 42) on that channel, you won't unintentionally trigger any unexpected function from it's MIDI stream.  Even if you do, you can always set the function to OFF in the template for any nuisance notes.  MIDI data from MIDIs played on the Tyros internal Song Player are not passed to the MFC10 filter!


Regards

Ian
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 12:29:07 PM by tyrosaurus »
 

Offline Natureflyer

Re: tyros5 behringer FCB1010 setup
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2017, 12:38:45 PM »
Hi Ian. ... Huh , i propably have to read all these throug a few times +1 tomorrow..
But at first sight sounds logical.  You explane clear.  Lets see.

Thanks again.  Now so to sleep.  Tomorrow seems to be a challenging day. ;))

Cheers William
 

Offline Natureflyer

Re: tyros5 behringer FCB1010 setup
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2017, 12:17:40 PM »

Hi Ian

Mid report.  I made Fcb programming with Fcb Uno Control center.

Set notevalues to Tyros switches 0-9  from 13 to 22
Saved to user
Inserted the same notevalues to Fcb to Control Center
Downloaded then to Fcb board. ( seemed to accept them)
Changed midi cabel from board midi out to Tyros midi B in
( also transmitted it to Tyros, maybe not needed)

In Tyros opened my savBasically, he's saying what I said, but he's telling you how to find out which notes trigger which functions. He's not familiar with UNO or ControlCenter, so he's telling you how to program the stock fcb chip. You asked for 5 functions, which is perfect for using STOMPS. Decide what functions you need, determine the notes required, assign them to the STOMPS, and use the rest of the 95 available pedals to call presets. Or, you could use whole banks to have all of the available tyros functions at your disposal. Or use a combination, with STOMPS available in every bank and other functions in other banks and presets in others. Now that you know how to find out which notes do what, and how to assign them in ControlCenter, you need to come up with a strategy that works for your personal work flow and performance needs.

Sent from my users file

Tried ....

Tyros reacts to foorpads,  but really strande way

- chabed rythms and tempo of selected style
- affected differet Main parts
- changed chords so that bottom note is always /C

Testing continues still a while more.  Tomorrow ill lower the note values one octave.

I have discussed slso wirh Fcb Uno forun.  Here their latest reply after your advice ...

"""
Basically, he's saying what I said, but he's telling you how to find out which notes trigger which functions. He's not familiar with UNO or ControlCenter, so he's telling you how to program the stock fcb chip. You asked for 5 functions, which is perfect for using STOMPS. Decide what functions you need, determine the notes required, assign them to the STOMPS, and use the rest of the 95 available pedals to call presets. Or, you could use whole banks to have all of the available tyros functions at your disposal. Or use a combination, with STOMPS available in every bank and other functions in other banks and presets in others. Now that you know how to find out which notes do what, and how to assign them in ControlCenter, you need to come up with a strategy that works for your personal work flow and performance needs.

Sent from my iPhone  """


This is challengin to my brains ;)

Cheers William




Hi William,

I decided to reply to your PM in a forum post.

The FCB1010 User Group should know much more about the device that I do, but since it is so simple  using the FCB programming software (that I have at least) to set up the presets to each transmit a single note of your choosing.

The Tyros MCF10 template works by simply listening for specific incoming MIDI notes on the relevant MIDI channel and translating them into an action set by you in the template. In fact the incoming notes can be from any external MIDI source, a DAW or MIDI player or MIDI-OX for example, the Tyros does not care as long as the notes appear on the correct channel.

So since the template makes it simple to trigger actions using MIDI notes, why bother setting up the FCB to send System Exclusive or CC messages, as long as the functions that you want to trigger are listed in the Tyros template?

There may well be a good reason of course, but I can't check this out because I don't have either pedal.  Bear in mind that only the Tyros models have the MCF10 template, and so you would not be able to use MIDI notes to control actions on a PSR model for example.  Perhaps the suggestions from the User Group were made by people unaware of the Tyros template!  I would certainly be trying the MIDI note method first if I had an FCB1010!  If you decide not to use notes, then good luck finding the SysEx or CC for many of the functions supported by the Tyros template!

To me it seems easy to program the FCB with notes using the software.

The software that I have uses MIDI note numbers, so there should be no ambiguity about how a note is named. It is quite old and is probably not the UNO version that you have.  It is called 'FBC1010 PC Editor - Version 2.99-2' developed by Ed Dixon.  It contains a 'spreadsheet' view of the settings which didn't seem to allow putting a MIDI note into a preset.  However there is a configuration page which selects the columns to be displayed, and 'Note' was turned off here!  Once I turned it on, it was  easy to add the correct notes to the presets.  Presumably it is easy to just program presets with single notes in your software.

There are 30 'pseudo switches' in the Tyros template, numbered from 0 to 29.  Each of these is associated with a specific MIDI note and this note can't be changed for a switch.   

However the FUNCTION activated by each switch can be changed to any of the 91 options (including OFF) on my T4, using the 4, 5 or 6 button pairs below the display.  You can assign the same function to more than one 'switch' if you really want to!
 
Since I don't know what the default functions are for each switch on a T5, the safest thing to do is to change the functions currently assigned to each of the first 10 switches so that they are set to what you want each one to do.  If you do this, the notes that you need to program into the FBC presets are those which are shown in the Tyros template for them translated into MIDI note numbers. 

These are shown in the Tyros template as from 'C#-1' for switch 0, up to 'Bb-1' for switch 9. This corresponds to MIDI note #13 to 22 and you need to program this ascending range of notes into the first 10 FCB presets.
 
You can set the rest of the switches in the Tyros template to OFF if you like, to be safe, but unless a note associated with these is received by the Tyros on the MIDI channel being used for the pedal, it shouldn't matter.

Once both the Tyros template and the FCB have been set up, make sure that the MIDI port that you are using for the FCB is turned on in the template and try it out!  The function assigned to each switch is not retained when you turn off the power, so after making them you need to save the MIDI template that includes them as a User template.  Once a template has been selected (Preset or User) this will be applied each time the power is turned on, so your assignments will be restored although if you carry out a system reset, the MIDI template used will revert back to the 'ALL PARTS' preset.

To summarise what I am suggesting you need to open your normal MIDI template in edit mode and Tab to the MFC10 page.

On this page set Switch No 0 in the Foot Switch Setting table of to the function 'MAIN A' using the 4 to 6 buttons under the display.   This Switch will be triggered by note 'C#-1'. Whichever octave numbering system you use, this Switch responds to MIDI note #13.  You need to program the FBC preset 1 with this note.

Repeat using Switch No 1 to MAIN B and program FBC preset #2 with MIDI note #14

Repeat with the remaining 8 switches, setting the desired function and programming the associated FBC preset with the next MIDI note up to the final one in FBC Preset 10 which should be MIDI note #22.

As I was posting, I have just seen your latest post - regarding the MIDI channel to use, you can select any one as long as the FCB is set to transmit on the same channel that the Tyros receives on (as set in the Tyros MFC10 template).  Channel 16 is probably a good one to try, since unless you have a specific external MIDI device which is transmitting low notes (#13 to 42) on that channel, you won't unintentionally trigger any unexpected function from it's MIDI stream.  Even if you do, you can always set the function to OFF in the template for any nuisance notes.  MIDI data from MIDIs played on the Tyros internal Song Player are not passed to the MFC10 filter!


Regards

Ian
 

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: tyros5 behringer FCB1010 setup
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2017, 07:00:42 PM »
Hi William,

I think that you may have pasted the reply from the UNO Group into your last post twice, but I think that I can understand what you mean.
 
I am not familiar with the UNO chip and any additional functions that it offers over the basic FCB firmware (which doesn't seem to know about STOMPS)!

However it sounds as if you can still program each of the foot switches on the unit so that when pressed, all it sends is a note.

Is it possible that pressing one is also sending other MIDI data such as SysEx or CC, maybe this is what is giving the unexpected results on the Tyros.

It should be possible to connect the pedal to a MIDI Monitoring application on a PC, such as MIDI-OX, and see exactly what the FCB unit sends when it's foot switches are pressed, but I don't know if you feel that this is something you could do.

There should be no need to transmit anything from the Tyros to the FCB!  The 'SEND MCF10 SETUP' button is only for use with the Yamaha MFC10! I suspect that it probably won't even work unless there is an MFC10 connected, but if it is lit on the screen, don't use it just in case.  I can't really help any further with the FCB1010 side of things, but I'm sure that you will get there with the help of the User Group.
 
However to be clear about the Tyros side of things, if you have set up the template correctly with the the 10 functions that you indicated in your list, the template switches 0 to 9 in the FOOT SWITCH SETTING table should be set to the following...

0 -  MAIN A     -  triggered only by incoming MIDI note 13
1 -  MAIN B     -  triggered only by incoming MIDI note 14
2 -  MAIN C    -  triggered only by incoming MIDI note 15
3 -  MAIN D    -  triggered only by incoming MIDI note 16
4 -  FILL BREAK    -  triggered only by incoming MIDI note 17
5 -  LEFT ON/OFF    -  triggered only by incoming MIDI note 18
6 -  MULTI PAD 1    -  triggered only by incoming MIDI note 19
7 -  VOCAL HARMONY    -  triggered only by incoming MIDI note 20
8 -  FINGERED/FING ON BASS    -  triggered only by incoming MIDI note 21
9 -  RIGHT 3 ON/OFF    -  triggered only by incoming MIDI note 22

The MIDI port (socket) that on the Tyros that you have the pedal connected to (MIDI A, MIDI B, USB1 or USB 2) must be set in the template, and also the MIDI channel so that it matches what you have set the FCB to transmit on.

Earlier I actually set up the exact template on my Tyros4 for the 10 functions listed above.  Obviously I don't have a pedal to check it with, so instead I sent the relevant notes from my computer to the T4 using MIDI-OX.  Everything worked as expected and the functions were selected correctly.  It really is very simple as long as you send only note data over the MIDI channel set up in the template.

In case it is any use to you, I have attached a table showing the MIDI Note Number that each of the 29 'switches' in the Tyros4 MFC10  template respond to.  These switch/note pairings are fixed and can't be changed.  I would be surprised if they were different in the T5.
There is also a list of every function that can be assigned to one or more of the switches, although this may well be different on the T5!

Please keep us up to date with the situation.


Regards

Ian
 
The following users thanked this post: Natureflyer

Offline Natureflyer

Re: tyros5 behringer FCB1010 setup
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2017, 11:37:01 PM »

Hi Ian

I finally got it working. With your patient instruction.   Only with the note values as ypu told.

Excellent group and your adwises

Thanks William





Hi William,

I think that you may have pasted the reply from the UNO Group into your last post twice, but I think that I can understand what you mean.
 
I am not familiar with the UNO chip and any additional functions that it offers over the basic FCB firmware (which doesn't seem to know about STOMPS)!

However it sounds as if you can still program each of the foot switches on the unit so that when pressed, all it sends is a note.

Is it possible that pressing one is also sending other MIDI data such as SysEx or CC, maybe this is what is giving the unexpected results on the Tyros.

It should be possible to connect the pedal to a MIDI Monitoring application on a PC, such as MIDI-OX, and see exactly what the FCB unit sends when it's foot switches are pressed, but I don't know if you feel that this is something you could do.

There should be no need to transmit anything from the Tyros to the FCB!  The 'SEND MCF10 SETUP' button is only for use with the Yamaha MFC10! I suspect that it probably won't even work unless there is an MFC10 connected, but if it is lit on the screen, don't use it just in case.  I can't really help any further with the FCB1010 side of things, but I'm sure that you will get there with the help of the User Group.
 
However to be clear about the Tyros side of things, if you have set up the template correctly with the the 10 functions that you indicated in your list, the template switches 0 to 9 in the FOOT SWITCH SETTING table should be set to the following...

0 -  MAIN A     -  triggered only by incoming MIDI note 13
1 -  MAIN B     -  triggered only by incoming MIDI note 14
2 -  MAIN C    -  triggered only by incoming MIDI note 15
3 -  MAIN D    -  triggered only by incoming MIDI note 16
4 -  FILL BREAK    -  triggered only by incoming MIDI note 17
5 -  LEFT ON/OFF    -  triggered only by incoming MIDI note 18
6 -  MULTI PAD 1    -  triggered only by incoming MIDI note 19
7 -  VOCAL HARMONY    -  triggered only by incoming MIDI note 20
8 -  FINGERED/FING ON BASS    -  triggered only by incoming MIDI note 21
9 -  RIGHT 3 ON/OFF    -  triggered only by incoming MIDI note 22

The MIDI port (socket) that on the Tyros that you have the pedal connected to (MIDI A, MIDI B, USB1 or USB 2) must be set in the template, and also the MIDI channel so that it matches what you have set the FCB to transmit on.

Earlier I actually set up the exact template on my Tyros4 for the 10 functions listed above.  Obviously I don't have a pedal to check it with, so instead I sent the relevant notes from my computer to the T4 using MIDI-OX.  Everything worked as expected and the functions were selected correctly.  It really is very simple as long as you send only note data over the MIDI channel set up in the template.

In case it is any use to you, I have attached a table showing the MIDI Note Number that each of the 29 'switches' in the Tyros4 MFC10  template respond to.  These switch/note pairings are fixed and can't be changed.  I would be surprised if they were different in the T5.
There is also a list of every function that can be assigned to one or more of the switches, although this may well be different on the T5!

Please keep us up to date with the situation.


Regards

Ian
 

Offline mcbrown

Re: tyros5 behringer FCB1010 setup
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2017, 09:41:30 AM »
Hi William,
I have just found this post and thought these FCB1010 docs may be off use to you which I had previously put into another post for a member. They are not for the UNO and are in reference to the original factory chip.

http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,27983.0.html

Hope you can get some info from them. These were sent to me by Behringer when they were in Australia. 

Regards

Murray
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 09:42:55 AM by mcbrown »
Genos & GNS-MS01 spkrs, TouchMix 30 Digital Mixer, Fender Strat, Music Man 210 75 guitar amp, Behringer GMX 212 Guitar amps & FCB1010, Behringer B1200D Sub & B205D f/b spkrs x 4, Boss GT-10 Guitar Effects, Roland GR-55 Guitar Synth, LD Systems MAUI 28 G2