Author Topic: New keyboard will have new software  (Read 2397 times)

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Offline Jeff Hollande

New keyboard will have new software
« on: August 13, 2017, 12:43:37 PM »
I have received a message tonight the new high end kb will have a complete new software structure. :P
 
This new software should not be usable for previous models like T4 or T5, they said. :-\

True ? I don't know, sorry ! :o

Jeff

« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 12:54:06 PM by Jeff Hollande »
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline EileenL

Re: New keyboard will have new software
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2017, 02:35:13 PM »
It just sounds like another silly rumour. Why oh why can't people just wait until we officially know. Maybe it will have new software that won't go backwards. This has been the case with registrations anyway. It is getting a bit silly now.   
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 02:44:35 PM by EileenL »
 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: New keyboard will have new software
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2017, 02:48:26 PM »
Plse read this message like it is written.

No one said older software will not work in the new
kb.

The message said the new software will not work in older kbs like T4 and T5 ! ! !

Jeff
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Online Del B

Re: New keyboard will have new software
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2017, 02:57:59 PM »
Funny you should say that Jeff I was told that beleive it or not 2 years ago, when I first got my T5, that just goes to show how long Yamaha take to produce their high end keybords.
 

Offline MBedesem

Re: New keyboard will have new software
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2017, 04:45:11 PM »
Yamaha has maintained the same basic software structure since the PSR 9000 or before. They have expanded it, but have been very hesitant to change the basic design or modify old code (originally written by software people who have long since retired). Yes, it is less than ideal, and often useful capabilities are restricted or more obscure.

And while many might object to this strategy, it has insured an on-going basic compatibility between instruments of many evolutions. While this has benefited the company by not taking on the very complex task of makeing new software that may demand changes hardware as well, it has made it possible for them to introduce valuable new products yearly at a marginal increase in price.

One important consequence of their focus on something else besides software has been the quality of the sound that the Yamaha PSRs create. As a user who purchased the very first midi synth (Jupiter 6) and grew thru the DX-7 on, we would have never, ever have contemplated that our keyboards could do so much with so much realism.

I will be patient and make my judgement after the product is announced.

Regards,

Michael

Michael P. Bedesem
mpb@vermontel.net
http://psrtutorial.com/MB/bedesem.html
Tyros 5
 

Offline maartenb

Re: New keyboard will have new software
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2017, 11:43:30 PM »
I have received a message tonight the new high end kb will have a complete new software structure. :P
Thanks for the message, Jeff!

I believe you are talking about the firmware, the operating system. This is the software that is loaded into memory every time one starts the Tyros. You can compare it to Windows and Linux for PCs, MacOS for Apple desktop computers, Android and IOS for mobile devices, etc.

And I expect this rumor to be correct. First of all, I think the Genos might work on a different processor. While the Tyros runs on a MIPS architecture (if I recall correctly), the Genos is likely to run on ARM (the same type as iPhones, iPads and Android devices). ARM makes a lot of sense for an musical instrument like an arranger. I think the Montage also runs on ARM?

Secondly, this rumor fits with the rumor from the French forum (which I shared in this post on this forum), stating that "the Genos will be more like Montage while being a new arranger". For this reason I also expect the screen interface to be a (radical?) departure from the Tyros interface.

I welcome a new operating system for the Genos. I hope it will enable Yamaha to build new features that are impossible (or at least very hard) to do with the Tyros firmware. (I also hope and expect that the style engine has been rewritten, hopefully providing a basic musical element like a half bar.  ;))

Keep in mind that making a new OS/firmware is a LOT of work! This might explain the unexpected continuation of the Tyros line with the Tyros 5 and the four year gap between the T5 and Genos. I expect the Genos and Montage to share a big part of the same new OS, to keep development costs down. Besides, rewriting (part of) the code of the firmware is always frustrating for a company, because if the developers do their job well, they spend a lot of hours programming and the instrument does exactly the same as before with the "old" code! In other words, one sees no difference "on the outside". The differences are "under the hood". But it will enable new things for years to come.

I am looking forward to this new instrument!

Maarten
 
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Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: New keyboard will have new software
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2017, 12:32:54 AM »

Hi Maarten,

Thank you so much for your very positive feedback. Very much appreciated.

This Forum needs people like you and PJ who are telling us in an understandable way how software systems for music instruments like arranger keyboards are working and why changes are necessary.😅

If this news is true then I accept and understand Yamaha's policy to show nothing before the final new product is ready for a worldwide distribution.

The commercial consequences of such a technical change must be important for the sales of all existing and future Yamaha keyboards, I guess.

Best regards, Jeff




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Offline EileenL

Re: New keyboard will have new software
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2017, 01:46:50 AM »
I think we all know that it is Yamaha's policy not to reveal anything about new keyboards before they are ready for sale, so this dose not indicate any specific change. There undoubtedly will be changes but I don't think they will be to radicle as to chase away there regular customer base. It would not do them any favours and they would not want to shoot themselves in the foot. Of course it is quite possible that styles will not work in earlier keyboards but then Yamaha have never been pleased with this anyway as they want the styles to sound there best and that is always on the keyboard they were designed for.

Offline Mark Z.

Re: New keyboard will have new software
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2017, 02:45:50 AM »
Go to YouTube and find there  "Genos " .
You will be surprised who and what  "Genos " is already .
It is certain that this Genos has no keys .

Offline Bill

Re: New keyboard will have new software
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2017, 03:18:41 AM »
I have received a message tonight the new high end kb will have a complete new software structure. :P
This new software should not be usable for previous models like T4 or T5, they said. :-\
True ? I don't know, sorry
Jeff

Hi Jeff.

Not ANOTHER NEW THREAD surely.

With the greatest of respect - It is nice to have a discussion on the new Keyboard, but why do we need so many threads all saying the same things over and over again.

There is nothing new in the new thread. PJD said a long time ago that Yamaha will use the new sound chip, You do not need a degree to work out that things have to be dramatically different, simply to incorporate the waveform now possible with better memory chips.

I even see (on another thread) that people are starting to get frustrated with each other.  Lets just wait for the damm thing to appear then we can have a meaning discussion. After all the thing is finalised now, and no matter what anyone says, we will get what we get.

Bill
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 06:33:37 AM by Bill »
England

Tyros 5/76
 
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Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: New keyboard will have new software
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2017, 03:33:32 AM »
You are right, Bill.
We will get what we get. :)

A M E N ;D

Jeff
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline pjd

Re: New keyboard will have new software
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2017, 06:07:03 AM »

Hi --

I wouldn't be surprised if Yamaha revamped the internal Tyros architecture (software and hardware). Without a very good software architecture to begin with, code tends to become less structured and harder to modify and extend with each passing generation.

I agree with Maarten, but he may have the Motif series in mind. The Motif XS and XF are both Linux-based with the Motif XF using a Toshiba TX4939 (TX4939XBG-400) MIPS architecture processor as the main control computer. The Montage switched to the Texas Instruments AM3352BZCZ80 ARM architecture processor (800MHz, Cortex-A8).

Both PSR and Tyros have used some form of SH-3 or SH-4 architecture processor which gives Yamaha a commonality across the range. The Tyros 5, specifically, uses the Renesas SH7731 (320MHz, SH4AL-DSP core architecture). (The lower clock speed reduces heat, so please don't fret. :-)) Yamaha are trending toward ARM architecture for their control computers -- a major shift from previous practice. Reface use ARM, too, although the control processor is much slower in order to run on battery power.

A new hardware platform, a new user interface (assuming a Montage-like touch panel) and a new tone generator would warrant a major software overhaul. (Michael made this point, too.)

The bigger question is what the player will see and experience. There is a lot of motivation to honor existing file formats like backward compatibility for SFF1 and SFF2 (GE) styles, XG SMF, etc. Of course, they may add something new. (Bachus's point.)

So, I'm not freaking out. As long as they give me a very good oboe, I'll be OK.

All smiles -- pj

Music technology blog: http://sandsoftwaresound.net/
 
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Offline EileenL

Re: New keyboard will have new software
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2017, 06:15:58 AM »
As we all know Yamaha's priority has always been to produce the very best voicing on there keyboards and that sells it to a lot of buyers. All these specs we keep hearing that should be on them will frighten many to death. After writing all these things you want to see do you actually get time to play your keyboards.

Offline soundphase

Re: New keyboard will have new software
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2017, 08:01:40 AM »
As we all know Yamaha's priority has always been to produce the very best voicing on there keyboards and that sells it to a lot of buyers. All these specs we keep hearing that should be on them will frighten many to death. After writing all these things you want to see do you actually get time to play your keyboards.

I understand Eileen's answer but I disagree. Even if they use a car to move, a lot of drivers like to know what kinds of motor and wheels is included for the price they pay. It's also a way to anticipate car quality and performance.
Moreover real car lovers spend a lot of time on their cars, without driving one mile.

There are a lot of ways to appreciate the Tyros/Genos : using a DAW to compose MIDI scores, making own styles or multipads, understanding electronic internals, are some of them.
 

Offline Mark Z.

Re: New keyboard will have new software
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2017, 09:35:21 AM »
Go to YouTube and find there "Genos "

The Genos you will find there has no keys .


Offline billtracy

Re: New keyboard will have new software
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2017, 10:43:32 AM »
Go to YouTube and find there "Genos "

The Genos you will find there has no keys .

Perhaps you would be kind enough to post a link to the video. :)
Current: Korg PA900, KRK Rokit 5s & 8S sub.
Previously Owned: Yamaha PSR-740, Yamaha PSR-1100, Yamaha PSR-S750, Roland E-A7.
 

Offline pjd

Re: New keyboard will have new software
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2017, 11:40:25 AM »
My comment about "oboe" was only partly facetious. The Montage added some stunning, expressive woodwinds. That's the extent of my wants and desires.  :D  :D

Take care -- pj
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: New keyboard will have new software
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2017, 01:11:02 PM »
Hope It's not gonna cost me my left ARM!!! ;D
 
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Offline J. Larry

Re: New keyboard will have new software
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2017, 03:10:35 PM »
Just donít make it too big and bulky; not too expensive, with great sounds and styles.  Thatís all I want or need.  And, whereís the power button?  I donít understand any of the ďunder the hoodĒ talk.  Itís interesting to read, but thatís the extent of it for me.  I, too, love oboes.  And, throw-in those cellos, as well.