Author Topic: Not Long Now. New Yamaha Flagship Keyboard On Its Way!  (Read 4579 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Bachus

Re: Not Long Now. New Yamaha Flagship Keyboard On Its Way!
« Reply #50 on: July 30, 2017, 07:47:37 AM »
Not to disappoint those like Bachus and Joe H., but I agree with Jeff that the Genos will be evolutionary rather than revolutionary. I was watching some Tyros 5 and S-970 demonstrations by Michel Voncken on youtube. Look at the audience he draws-nearly all "greybeards" like myself and most everyone here. And most of these potential buyers are interested in recreating the "old" music for their own enjoyment at home. They want a good sounding instrument with "out of the box" styles and sounds. For the most part, the features that Bachus and Joe covet mean little to them.

So, I think Genos will be an incremental upgrade. There may be a couple more knobs and maybe a few other features taken from the Montage to satisfy those interested in a more modern approach. But I think Yamaha knows the core buyer and will not risk losing those people. If I am wrong and the Genos is a completely new direction, then Yamaha would at least have to make sure that all of the legacy styles and extra content will be compatible.

The fact that those greybeards are a slowly dying race(not meant to offend anyone) and the fact that there is a namechange, can only indicate that Yamaha is changing directions with the Genos, same way as they did with Montage vs the Motif..

I predict atleast a totally different look from the Tyros..
And also the internals might have had quite some changes..
The new features of the 970 allready indicated Yamaha is moving arrangers more towards younger people. And a fulle renewed Genos will be the answer how they mean to become attractive for a larger group of people while still being attractive enough to the slowly shrincking group of greybeards prepared to pull their wallets..

If it was only an incremental update.. it would have been named the Tyros 6..
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.  I am wayting for the next box of chocolate the Yamaha Genos.

Admin of : www.keyszone.boards.net
 

Online Joe H

Re: Not Long Now. New Yamaha Flagship Keyboard On Its Way!
« Reply #51 on: July 30, 2017, 08:41:53 AM »
Not to disappoint those like Bachus and Joe H., but I agree with Jeff that the Genos will be evolutionary rather than revolutionary. I was watching some Tyros 5 and S-970 demonstrations by Michel Voncken on youtube. Look at the audience he draws-nearly all "greybeards" like myself and most everyone here. And most of these potential buyers are interested in recreating the "old" music for their own enjoyment at home. They want a good sounding instrument with "out of the box" styles and sounds. For the most part, the features that Bachus and Joe covet mean little to them.

So, I think Genos will be an incremental upgrade. There may be a couple more knobs and maybe a few other features taken from the Montage to satisfy those interested in a more modern approach. But I think Yamaha knows the core buyer and will not risk losing those people. If I am wrong and the Genos is a completely new direction, then Yamaha would at least have to make sure that all of the legacy styles and extra content will be compatible.

What you fail to understand is that if you put out food for squirrels in the yard, then you attract squirrels.  If you put out food for birds then you attract birds.

The arranger keyboard has evolved over 30 years from a toy... to a serious pro level keyboard.  All the "content" Yamaha has provided up until the last couple of models is "gray hair" music.  So what can we expect to attract as a buyer when it's mostly 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s music styles.

You better move over and make room for the next generation... because change is coming.  And I say this as a progressive 69, going on 70 year old who is not so stuck in the past.  While I may still listen to oldies from time to time, I like the contemporary music and I hope Yamaha is hip enough to start offering much needed new "content" for the younger generation buyer.

If all you want is oldies music, then don't ever upgrade again, because there is nothing new that can be added to the old stuff Yamaha has been recycling for the last 30 years.  It is what it is and there is nothing more that can be added to it except for individuals to use Style Creator Assembly to create variations of these oldies styles.

Regards,
Joe H
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 11:37:44 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Re: Not Long Now. New Yamaha Flagship Keyboard On Its Way!
« Reply #52 on: July 30, 2017, 09:04:20 AM »
The fact that those greybeards are a slowly dying race(not meant to offend anyone) and the fact that there is a namechange, can only indicate that Yamaha is changing directions with the Genos, same way as they did with Montage vs the Motif..

I predict atleast a totally different look from the Tyros..
And also the internals might have had quite some changes..
The new features of the 970 allready indicated Yamaha is moving arrangers more towards younger people. And a fulle renewed Genos will be the answer how they mean to become attractive for a larger group of people while still being attractive enough to the slowly shrincking group of greybeards prepared to pull their wallets..

If it was only an incremental update.. it would have been named the Tyros 6..

The key is the greybeards are a slowly dying breed. That is why I don't think the change will be as drastic as you hope for. I am in my sixties and perhaps among the youngest here. But Yamaha will not do anything to completely alienate those buyers. But we agree that there will be a move toward the younger people, we just disagree on the speed of  that move.
Current Gear: Roland E-A7, KRK Rokit 5s.
Previously Owned: Yamaha PSR-740, Yamaha PSR-1100, Yamaha PSR-S750, Roland BK-3.
 

Re: Not Long Now. New Yamaha Flagship Keyboard On Its Way!
« Reply #53 on: July 30, 2017, 09:08:26 AM »
What you fail to understand is that if you put out food for squirrels in the yard, then you attract squirrels.  If you put out food for birds then you attract birds.

The arranger keyboard has evolved over 30 years from a toy... to a serious pro level keyboard.  All the "content" Yamaha has provided up until the last couple of models is "gray hair" music.  So what can we expect to attract as a buyer when it's mostly 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s music styles.

You better move over and make room for the next generation... because change is coming.  And I say this as a progressive 69, going on 70 year old is not so stuck in the past.  While I may still listen to oldies from time to time, I like the contemporary music and I hope Yamaha is hip enough to start offering much needed new "content" for the younger generation buyer.

If all you want is oldies music, then don't ever upgrade again, because there is nothing new that can be added to the old stuff Yamaha has been recycling for the last 30 years.  It is what it is and there is nothing more that can be added to it.

Regards,
Joe H

Joe,

I don't intend to demean your taste in music in any way. You enjoy some of the new stuff and that is great. All I like is the old stuff and there are many who feel that way. The reason for those like me to upgrade is better sounds and features. If the Genos has the features that you want but continues to support the "greybeards" and their legacy styles and already purchased expansion packs, then  it will be a success all the way around.
Current Gear: Roland E-A7, KRK Rokit 5s.
Previously Owned: Yamaha PSR-740, Yamaha PSR-1100, Yamaha PSR-S750, Roland BK-3.
 

Online Joe H

Re: Not Long Now. New Yamaha Flagship Keyboard On Its Way!
« Reply #54 on: July 30, 2017, 09:41:08 AM »
Joe,

I don't intend to demean your taste in music in any way...

That's not even possible, because it's great and often joyful music!

 :)     8)

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline mikf

Re: Not Long Now. New Yamaha Flagship Keyboard On Its Way!
« Reply #55 on: July 30, 2017, 12:11:23 PM »
Graybeards are not a dying breed. There is a never ending supply as people age. Nor does music die out and get replaced by new generations, we simply add new stuff to it. I play music all the time that was written long before I was born. Why - because it is good music. As younger generations mature, they also pick up on the great music of the past. And there is another important issue - some music works better than others on the keyboard. So when we learn to play we naturally move towards that music. Piano playing has remained pretty much the same for the last 100 years, despite moving through multiple generations.
We should not read too much into the name 'arranger', it was just a marketing term invented to distinguish keyboards with advanced auto accompaniment. These keyboards are meant for live playing, and appeal to a very wide range of playing abilities. As they have grown in sophistication marketing has invented more names like professional arrangers, arranger workstations - but fundamentally they remain a keyboard for live playing. And I don't believe this will change. Manufacturers will compete by adding technology which improve the quality of the accompaniment, increase versatility and make editing and performing easier. But new name or not, I do not expect a revolution because this is a successful market. The new keyboard whatever it is called will focus on live playing using auto accompaniment. It will just do it a bit better.
And when todays 20 year olds get to be 55 and buy these keyboards they will certainly still be playing Irving Berlin and George Gershwin just like I am.
Mike
 
 

Online Joe H

Re: Not Long Now. New Yamaha Flagship Keyboard On Its Way!
« Reply #56 on: July 30, 2017, 01:18:55 PM »
Graybeards are not a dying breed. There is a never ending supply as people age. Nor does music die out and get replaced by new generations, we simply add new stuff to it. I play music all the time that was written long before I was born. Why - because it is good music. As younger generations mature, they also pick up on the great music of the past. And there is another important issue - some music works better than others on the keyboard. So when we learn to play we naturally move towards that music. Piano playing has remained pretty much the same for the last 100 years, despite moving through multiple generations.
We should not read too much into the name 'arranger', it was just a marketing term invented to distinguish keyboards with advanced auto accompaniment. These keyboards are meant for live playing, and appeal to a very wide range of playing abilities. As they have grown in sophistication marketing has invented more names like professional arrangers, arranger workstations - but fundamentally they remain a keyboard for live playing. And I don't believe this will change. Manufacturers will compete by adding technology which improve the quality of the accompaniment, increase versatility and make editing and performing easier. But new name or not, I do not expect a revolution because this is a successful market. The new keyboard whatever it is called will focus on live playing using auto accompaniment. It will just do it a bit better.
And when todays 20 year olds get to be 55 and buy these keyboards they will certainly still be playing Irving Berlin and George Gershwin just like I am.
Mike

 ::)    ::)    ::)

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline J. Larry

Re: Not Long Now. New Yamaha Flagship Keyboard On Its Way!
« Reply #57 on: July 30, 2017, 02:31:39 PM »
For those who appreciate and enjoy a more contemporary type of music, are there not better tools and gear for that than arranger keyboards?    If itís true that the majority of us arranger buyers are oldies, why would Yamaha turn their back on this group who have supported them through the years?  Should the Genos appear, some bright person calculate and post how much of it represents a more modern approach to music vs the older, more established musical styles.  Might it be 50/50, or tilted in a particular direction? 
 

Re: Not Long Now. New Yamaha Flagship Keyboard On Its Way!
« Reply #58 on: July 30, 2017, 02:57:29 PM »
For those who appreciate and enjoy a more contemporary type of music, are there not better tools and gear for that than arranger keyboards?    If itís true that the majority of us arranger buyers are oldies, why would Yamaha turn their back on this group who have supported them through the years?  Should the Genos appear, some bright person calculate and post how much of it represents a more modern approach to music vs the older, more established musical styles.  Might it be 50/50, or tilted in a particular direction?

I think folks like Bachus and Joe are looking for a blend of workstation and arranger features in one board. But I agree that Yamaha will not turn their back on the oldies just yet. Too many are invested in the Yamaha system figuratively and financially for that. And the oldies have money to spend and can do that with the push of a button on the Internet. They also have more buying power than the newbies. All of this is why I think that Genos, if it really is a new arranger line, will only move toward the newbies in an incremental manner.
Current Gear: Roland E-A7, KRK Rokit 5s.
Previously Owned: Yamaha PSR-740, Yamaha PSR-1100, Yamaha PSR-S750, Roland BK-3.
 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: Not Long Now. New Yamaha Flagship Keyboard On Its Way!
« Reply #59 on: July 30, 2017, 03:12:22 PM »
Up to now young musicians mostly do not like arranger keyboards. They prefer synths instead. Even when they are not playing in a band.

In their eyes an arranger keyboard is not a real instrument. They say it is more or less a kind of juke box instead of an instrument and not suitable for their modern music.

It is hard to convince them ... worse ... they refuse to play the
present arranger keyboards.

If Yamaha want also to sell their arr kbs to young people changes are a must, I guess.

On the other hand Yami are aware their most important customers are people like we are.

Hopefully Yami are solving this problem by offering a product that makes younger and older people happy.

Wishful thinking ? I really do not know. Time will tell.

Jeff
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 03:15:59 PM by Jeff Hollande »
XGW - SONAR PLATINUM - CUBASE 8 WIN - MIXCRAFT8
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Not Long Now. New Yamaha Flagship Keyboard On Its Way!
« Reply #60 on: July 30, 2017, 03:30:07 PM »
I have to agree with the above. Yamaha know there customer base very well and that most sales here in UK as well as Germany and other countries are largely retired people who want to either take up a new hobby or continue with something they did in earlier life. 

Offline jimlaing

Re: Not Long Now. New Yamaha Flagship Keyboard On Its Way!
« Reply #61 on: July 31, 2017, 05:43:55 AM »
Hi ... interesting conversations!  I'm 58, but my beard is starting to turn white!  :-)
Have been playing Arranger keyboards for ~20-someting years.  One thing I notice,
as I visit with friends and their families, etc., is that many people "our age" brought their
kids up on "classic rock" and "oldies" etc., so I know a lot of kids, from teenagers to young
adults in their 20s and 30s, who LOVE classic rock,and  music from 1950s-1980s, etc. 

I had a music party at my house a couple of months ago; a close friend brought his daughter (Age ~16) and
she had her boyfriend with her (Age ~17) - and the first song they wanted me to play (so they could
sing it) was "Fly Me To The Moon"!  (I even have a video, maybe I can post is someday).  Then they
had me play dozens of songs from the 1960s-1980s, they sang along to all of them.  Another friend (of that family) who came by that same night, was a "wiz" guitar player (VERY good), about 18 years old.  He was ripping through song after song (I played arranger, he played guitar over it) of classic rock songs mostly from 1960s-1980s.  And he asked for a few "Sinatra songs" as he called them!

So there are at least *some* very young folks who still love (and play or sing) the songs from ~50+ years ago!

Just thought I'd share this little story ... we had a blast; me at 58, playing music for teenagers who were
also amazed at what an arranger keyboard can do (they didn't even know such keyboards exist until they saw/heard mine) ...

Jim

Offline pjd

Re: Not Long Now. New Yamaha Flagship Keyboard On Its Way!
« Reply #62 on: July 31, 2017, 06:18:04 AM »
"retired people who want to either take up a new hobby or continue with something they did in earlier life."

God bless us one and all.  :)  :)

-- pj
 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: Not Long Now. New Yamaha Flagship Keyboard On Its Way!
« Reply #63 on: July 31, 2017, 06:27:42 AM »
Hi Jim,

I love your story !
Thanks , Jeff

XGW - SONAR PLATINUM - CUBASE 8 WIN - MIXCRAFT8
 

Offline soundphase

Re: Not Long Now. New Yamaha Flagship Keyboard On Its Way!
« Reply #64 on: July 31, 2017, 06:41:25 AM »
There is good music and bad music in all decades.

For me, it is worth enjoying new melodies and rhythms, rather than always playing the same good old renditions.  And,... we all know good old stuffs that are reworked in good new stuffs ...

I'm not retired yet, but I'm no longer young. I hope I will always like listening to and playing new hits on my keyboards.

But, for this, arrangers must continue to be completed by newer styles and sounds, and ... should not only stay sticked on classical or 40's~70's styles, with better sound quality.

So, I hope Genos will include what will allow me to easily play modern styles without too much programming efforts.... and even better sounds.

Regards
Soundphase.

Online Joe H

Re: Not Long Now. New Yamaha Flagship Keyboard On Its Way!
« Reply #65 on: July 31, 2017, 08:05:12 AM »
The folks who like oldies music should not feel threatened by the idea of Yamaha offering more contemporary content... after all, they never take the old stuff away, they just add new content and new features.

So relax... I'm sure almost everyone will be happy with the new board... only those who are NEVER happy will continue to complain no matter how good the next machine will be.

 ;)

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: Not Long Now. New Yamaha Flagship Keyboard On Its Way!
« Reply #66 on: July 31, 2017, 08:48:59 AM »
Hi Soundphase,

I am almost sure the Genos will bring you what you want.😆

A typical Yamaha upgrade : a new look in Black and dark Grey colour, additional new styles and updated older styles.
Maybe a new style structure, an improved sound, improved piano, organ, guitar, sax, and drums voices,
 better speakers, a touch screen, a new stand and a few new features. The same T5 VH.

No Montage features, maybe a similar touch screen.

Nothing spectacular, a very traditional Yamaha arr kb made for the older home player.

The enduser price will be higher.

That is what the Genos will bring us, I guess.
Time will tell if I am right.

Jeff, The Soothsayer 😉
XGW - SONAR PLATINUM - CUBASE 8 WIN - MIXCRAFT8
 

Offline mikf

Re: Not Long Now. New Yamaha Flagship Keyboard On Its Way!
« Reply #67 on: July 31, 2017, 09:12:11 AM »
Exactly right Joe.  Arrranger keyboards will continue to focus on live playing using auto accompaniment and to do this as a market leader they have to keep adding new styles, improving sounds. They will also add and improve features which allow more adventurous users to edit styles, and perform better. Many of these features will overlap what is available on workstation keyboards, and smart people will be able to do some of what can be done on a workstation on an arranger. But  I believe that predicting that arrangers and workstations will merge in the future, and Genos will be a step in that direction is wrong because their core purpose, and therefore their core users, are different. I expect Genos to be a step change in arrangers, not a step towards a single keyboard to replace arrangers and workstations.
Mike

Offline EileenL

Re: Not Long Now. New Yamaha Flagship Keyboard On Its Way!
« Reply #68 on: August 01, 2017, 12:42:50 PM »
Yes Mike I agree.