Author Topic: The limitations of the Expension Manager  (Read 990 times)

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Offline Cosmorot

The limitations of the Expension Manager
« on: July 06, 2017, 03:25:00 AM »
Created a voice. In the expension manager, you can only select the effect type. But can not be adjusted. In Tyros, it is possible to open this Voice, and adjust the effect. But it is impossible to save! Saved only as *.vci - And this is just an address link! How is it possible to save the Voice with all the settings?
What would the Voice be in the package...
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: The limitations of the Expension Manager
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2017, 03:48:13 AM »
When you have made the changes to the Expansion voice you can open Voice Set (or you may already be in Voice Set to make some of those changes) and push save. That enables you to save the expansion voice complete with the settings you want- similar to producing a so called "user" voice with normal preset voices. As with the latter the file does not contain the voice samples, but links to them via their msb, lsb, and program change nos. You can save the file to a drive and folder of your choice.
I have user files for nearly all my expansion voices, it is much quicker and more flexible than keep going back to YEM as needs change.
John
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 03:59:50 AM by jwyvern »
 
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Offline voodoo

Re: The limitations of the Expension Manager
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2017, 06:31:44 AM »
Created a voice. In the expension manager, you can only select the effect type. But can not be adjusted. In Tyros, it is possible to open this Voice, and adjust the effect. But it is impossible to save! Saved only as *.vci - And this is just an address link! How is it possible to save the Voice with all the settings?
What would the Voice be in the package...

Hi, this is a very good quesion. I was wondering about this, too. But I am afraid, that this is not possible. *.vce files cannot be added to a pack in the YEM. For DSP programs, only the standard settings given by the YEM are usable.

Perhaps you can save the modification into a registration bank and add this bank to the pack. But this is not quite the same.

Any ideas?
Yamaha PSR-S970 (sold)
Yamaha Genos (ordered)
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline Cosmorot

Re: The limitations of the Expension Manager
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2017, 07:12:28 AM »
There is an idea to ask Yamaha to complete the Expension Manager to the level of the normal program.
It's just access to the control digits! I think this can be done in EM.
 

Offline Cosmorot

Re: The limitations of the Expension Manager
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2017, 07:19:49 AM »
and push save.
No I can not! The "save" button is not active! I can save on hard disk or in presets, but this completely ruins the bank that I have MidiDevice in Cubase.
And how much will this be duplicated voices? Package + harddisk preset. Because the recourse will still be to the voice where real samples are stored.
I speak as Master Yoda  :o But I do not know how to explain
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 07:23:30 AM by Cosmorot »
 

Offline Joe H

Re: The limitations of the Expension Manager
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2017, 07:25:27 AM »
... *.vce files cannot be added to a pack in the YEM. For DSP programs, only the standard settings given by the YEM are usable...

Any ideas?

Hi Uli,

The "COMMON" parameters in the YEM Voice Editor are the same as the Voice Set parameters.   Yes, it would be nice if we could "Import" .vce files.  I have looked at that issue myself.  What has to be done is as John alluded to.  If you want to apply Voice Set settings to pack Voices, you must look at the Voice Set User Voices we create and make those settigs in the Common parameter block in the YEM Editor.

My observation is that the Common Parameters in YEM are converted to a Voice Set file when the pack is saved as a .ppi Installation File.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline voodoo

Re: The limitations of the Expension Manager
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2017, 07:29:18 AM »
Joe,

you are completely right. The common block in YEM corresponds to the voice set of a voice. Most parameters are accessible in YEM. But (to my knowledge) the full list of DSP programs and the DSP parameters are not. For everything else your proposed method should work.

Uli
Yamaha PSR-S970 (sold)
Yamaha Genos (ordered)
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: The limitations of the Expension Manager
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2017, 11:36:42 AM »
No I can not! The "save" button is not active! I can save on hard disk or in presets, but this completely ruins the bank that I have MidiDevice in Cubase.
And how much will this be duplicated voices? Package + harddisk preset. Because the recourse will still be to the voice where real samples are stored.
I speak as Master Yoda  :o But I do not know how to explain

Apologies, I have difficulty understanding  :)
When Voice Set is used normally I have never seen the Save greyed out. Yes it is used to save voice files as "User Voices" to hard disk, USB etc. and cannot be used in conjunction with YEM, which was not intended by my reply. However it is a useful workaround to save DSP properties that may not be available in YEM, which is the main reason I mentioned it.
I am not sure why it is so important for you to save everything within a YEM file, but assume from your reply you are concerned with getting the voice and edits recorded in Cubase.
As far as I can see, even if you manage to save the edits within a YEM expansion voice, entering the appropriate Bank and Program Change nos. for that Cubase track will cause the sound samples to be heard on Playback, but the DSP's will be ignored (ie. not loaded to the track). This even happens with normal preset voices that have DSP's assigned - eg. try EGuitar SoloKing, it loses the grittiness of the DSP effect in Cubase.
I'm fairly new to Cubase, but so far I have found that it's necessary to load individual voices (can be presets or edited user voices saved with Voice Set, or Expansion voices)  to say R1 on Tyros while Cubase is recording. This causes Tyros to generate the midi data and Sys Exclusive necessary to access the voice samples and send it to Cubase where the full range of edits is stored in the first 1 or 2 bars of the midi track.
(For multiple voice recordings I have used registrations to initially set up the various Cubase channels but there are provisos and it's not foolproof, which means a lot of time can be wasted.)
Admittedly it's not a tidy method. Unfortunately, if we want to record /multi record, using complicated voice edits (which are easily "lost" using DAWs) I find it difficult to get away from the idea that the quickest and most trouble free way of doing it is to use the Tyros Song Recorder. It just works! .... If you anticipate a lot of error correction, note editing and cut and pasting is going to be necessary, save ex Tyros, import to the DAW and go on from there.
John   
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 11:53:07 AM by jwyvern »
 

Offline Joe H

Re: The limitations of the Expension Manager
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2017, 12:12:53 PM »
I think what we all alluding to here and agree on is that there is a need to update the YEM software from the simple editor it is now to a more complete in-depth Voice editor that supports ALL Voice parameters like we see for the Motif.  And furthermore better arranger-Cubase integration where the keyboard and Cubase reflect the same settings at the same time as is the case with the Motif Voice and Performance editor when run in Cubase.  These setups can then be saved as a Cubase Project file for future recall.

An arranger editor should also support style and Multi Pad editing.  Imagine editing a a Voice, style or Multi Pad on screen in an editor and the Voice, style file or Multi Pad is then transmitted to the keyboard so we can play it to see how it sounds

Joe H
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 12:21:05 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Cosmorot

Re: The limitations of the Expension Manager
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2017, 07:54:26 AM »
Quote
Unfortunately, if we want to record /multi record, using complicated voice edits (which are easily "lost" using DAWs) I find it difficult to get away from the idea that the quickest and most trouble free way of doing it is to use the Tyros Song Recorder.
Why not? To do this, there is MIDI port B. And the 2nd channel controls R1 which quite includes the DSP. But in the 1bar of midi track, you need to write the SysEx with the data reset. Unfortunately the regular sequencer does not provide detailed editing.
Quote
I think what we all alluding to here and agree on is that there is a need to update the YEM software from the simple editor it is now to a more complete in-depth Voice editor that supports ALL Voice parameters like we see for the Motif.
Give me five bud!  8) You understood me!
   I have both T5 and T2. At T2 in the editing of the Voice includes the setting of the DSP! And it's ridiculous - when importing TVN files in Tyros 5 they look like Cast Normal Voice with the correct DSP!  :o But I bought the T5 just for the sake of detailed editing. Also for the f... two buttons "Art.1" and "Art.2" (controller No. 80 and No. 81) that I can not use! Why?  :-X
   I'm silent about Organ World! It is not possible to save the preset to use it in the DAW.
I'm more than satisfied with the sound of T5! It's alive !!!!! This greatly relieves the resource of the computer and allows you to create, rather than monitor the load scale.