Author Topic: Fill in two bars!  (Read 1078 times)

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Offline Cosmorot

Fill in two bars!
« on: July 05, 2017, 09:45:09 AM »
I'd like very much to ask Yamaha firm in the new update to make it possible to fill two bars with the size!
The rules are simple - after playing fill transition immediately to the second measure of style.
This will make it possible to make a bit shift characteristic of jazz and funk.
How do you like this idea?
 

Offline pieterpan

Re: Fill in two bars!
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2017, 10:11:08 AM »
Hi,

I mentioned it several times and several years but Yamaha doesn't listen. In my opnion it's a easily done thing.

Regards <> Piet
Yamaha Tyros 4 - Yamaha KX 25 - Gem WSII module
 

Offline Cosmorot

Re: Fill in two bars!
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2017, 11:41:47 AM »
Hello!
That's it - it's very easy to do this! This will expand the possibilities! Both regular and users.
And where did you write the request?
It would be nice to make a petition from all users.
 

Offline voodoo

Re: Fill in two bars!
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2017, 06:36:16 AM »
The answer is, that this is not possible with Yamaha arrangers.

You have think about the consequences. Changes of a style part always happen to next full bar. So a fill with two bars of length, how should it work?

I guess that Yamaha found no easy concept for this, and thus don't offer it.
Yamaha PSR-S970 (sold)
Yamaha Genos (ordered)
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline pieterpan

Re: Fill in two bars!
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2017, 06:51:00 AM »
Hi,

I know that it is not possible at the moment with the arranger keyboards but, in my opinion, it is a matter of software change. Why Intro's and Endings and main sections with almost no limit on measure's - I think it must be possible to do that with breaks and fills.

In the meantime I use Always Intro 3 for the main intro and use intro's 1 and two for fills or breaks longer than one measure.

Regards <> Piet
Yamaha Tyros 4 - Yamaha KX 25 - Gem WSII module
 

Offline Cosmorot

Re: Fill in two bars!
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2017, 07:07:58 AM »
pieterpan Absolutely agree! This is just a couple of edits in the code! And in the new update, we would have new features
 

Offline metcam

Re: Fill in two bars!
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2017, 12:43:48 PM »
I'd like very much to ask Yamaha firm in the new update to make it possible to fill two bars with the size!
The rules are simple - after playing fill transition immediately to the second measure of style.
This will make it possible to make a bit shift characteristic of jazz and funk.
How do you like this idea?

Idea is great.
Many of musicians choose KORG over Yamaha just because of this.Every day my friends switch to KORG PAX4 more and more and I am really sad about that.

Yamaha is time to open your EYES.

PLEASE!!!
Curent Instruments: Tyros5-61,,,PSR-A3000
Previus instruments:PSR9000,Tyros2,Tyros3,psr2000,psr2100,psr1500,psr530,psr OR700,DX7,DX11,V50,DX21.
KORG:pa800,KORG PA-900,Triton Extreme,Triton rack,.KORG X3,Roland G600.Roland D20.........
 

Re: Fill in two bars!
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2017, 02:25:36 PM »
As long as we're discussing the structure of the basic "style" (Intro 1/2/3 | Main A/B/C/D | Ending 1/2/3) I would love it if they would FINALLY use the "Break" button for "random" fills. In other words, each style file would have, say, 8 or 16 different fills and when you hit the Break button, the keyboard just randomly selects one of the 8 or 16 different fills and throws it in.

I realize this is a bit of a simplification since a "heavy" fill wouldn't sound right when moving from, say, pattern A to pattern B, but then again, perhaps the logic would be that each Main part itself has multiple random fills to choose from. So...Main A is doing simple, quiet, hi-hat/rim shot stuff. Well...then the Break button would select from 8 or 16 fills that match the intensity and "vibe" of Main A. Main B would have its own collection of 8 or 16 fills, Main C would have its own collection, etc.

To my ears, there are certainly a few styles where I DON'T get tired of the same fills (usually because the fills are so natural sounding and executed beautifully that it just doesn't matter). In all other cases, the standard fills sound so glaringly the same, that it's impossible to go from a completed piece to then release it on CD Baby (or whatever) because you have those glaring fills that are the same all the time.

Now...I fully realize that I'm using an "arranger" to do what arguably is the domain of the "workstation" (Motif XF series, etc.), but a man can dream can't he?? The "arps" on the Motif XF, while certainly not like the Style engine, at least they had a "randomizer" thingey you could do that would change the fills slightly (or not so slightly...you could adjust it) and THEN you can completely arrange a song from the ground up that actually sounds like a real drummer was involved (or at least someone with a really good grasp of a drum "performance").

Heck...if Yamaha would simply take the "randomizer" technology from the Motif series and allow you to point it at a single measure of a drum track, that alone would elevate the "arranger" keyboard to be both an arranger *and* a full blown production workstation capable of delivering an entire perfectly produced piece of music that would just about cover most scenarios that we find ourselves in. As it is, in working on my new album, I'm finding that I will probably hire out the drumming and basically just get the best drum track I can get using the style, and then get that to one of these online houses that will do your drums for you.

Alternately, and before I spend the money on hiring someone, I thought I would at least give a try at pulling the MIDI file into Sonar and then grabbing my huge library of MIDI drum fills that I've purchased/scraped/searched/stolen throughout the years and attempt to see if I can surgically insert better fills into each of the fill sections of a typical 4 minute song. The problems I foresee are:
1. You're at the mercy of whatever you have and/or whatever you can find (whereas an intelligent "randomizer" would give you untold possibilities to work with).
2. Perhaps more importantly, you're at the mercy of however the original folks designed the MIDI fills (whether they stuck with standard drum mappings, whether their velocities are way out of whack with Yamaha's velocities, etc.). Some of the downsides can be fixed with even more delicate surgery (applying velocity adjustments to just the fill measure until the velocities match the other measures, remapping the hits if necessary, etc.).

I ALSO thought of simply using the style drums as a real basic beat to get the rest of the tracks recorded in perfect timing, and then dispensing with the Tyros drum track entirely and building up the drums with various drum libraries and whatever fills they come with. Again, there are potential pitfalls here, but heck...I recorded an entire album (Palouse) using nothing but drum libraries and the MIDI files I could pull together for the various beats and fills that I needed.

Nothing...and I mean NOTHING in my opinion totally beats a REAL drummer using REAL drums (electronic or analog) especially when you tell them what you are looking for.

So anyway...my two cents. We shall see how this turns out.


K
Kevin B. Selby
http://kevinselby.com
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Fill in two bars!
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2017, 05:09:47 PM »
Kevin,

There ARE workarounds.  It is possible to add several drum fills triggered by specific chord types.  The other option is convert those drum loops you have to Multi Pads.  You could have your Multi Pad folder open viewing 10 Multi Pad files with up to 4 drum fills per MP.  That's potentially 40 drum fills you could trigger on-the-fly by pressing a button.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Cosmorot

Re: Fill in two bars!
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2017, 12:17:49 AM »
selbalicious,
On the one hand, the idea is good. Sometimes I dreamed of a greater number of fillings. But on the other hand I understand that it will be difficult to implement. (I will explain below). As for the randomizer, I would like to have control over the music content.
Joe H, The idea of chords has common sense. I still thought about filling up with the time, in which it is started. But it will be hard to realize with that the hardware that uses T5. Imagine each transition from variation to fill and back assuming a change bank + preset + control to change x8 channels! Some voices collin up slowly. And with the "time" on the T5 already have a problem.
    In any case, you need to send a report! With an understanding of what can really be in the firmware. But where? I tried to write on "Yamaha America", but there is no answer. Does anyone know how to contact Yamaha?
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Fill in two bars!
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2017, 05:58:11 AM »
Cosmorot,

The last time I emailed Yamaha USA with an suggestion for firmware update they told me to post here on this forum.  They said they could no longer accept suggestions via email because of legal issues, and further explained the marking managers read this forum and get our ideas that way.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Cosmorot

Re: Fill in two bars!
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2017, 07:56:59 AM »
If this is true, it is encouraging! I really hope for feedback and for an early release of the update Expansion Manager and T5 firmware.  :'(
And if there are 2 bars! We can write something like this:
https://youtu.be/4NSFNYYRtqU?t=34s
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 08:00:20 AM by Cosmorot »