Author Topic: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg  (Read 22814 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mikf

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #50 on: July 05, 2017, 03:19:48 PM »
I think registrations are largely a Yamaha term for memorized keyboard settings, and I believe Korg call them keyboard sets or keyboard settings. From what I have seen in reports many would argue the Korg keyboard settings are simpler to set up and better than Yamaha registrations. Never used it so I can't offer any opinion, but I would be surprised if they were not at least as powerful as registrations.
Mike
 

Offline Roger Brenizer

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #51 on: July 05, 2017, 03:29:28 PM »
Don Mason has already been a contributor to this topic.  Hopefully, Al, he will respond to your question, because I know he will be able to provide the answer.  Don plays professionally and makes a living using the Korg PA4X.  :)
"Music Is My Life"
My best regards,
Roger

(The older I get...the better I used to be...LOL!!!)
Roger’s PSR Performer Page
 

Offline DonM

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #52 on: July 05, 2017, 07:23:36 PM »
Previous to the PA4X, Korg used both the Songbook, and Performances.  Performances were much like Yamaha Registrations and the Songbook for like the Music Finder, except much more powerful.
On the 4X you really on the Songbook primarily.  There is a also a list of Keysets, so you can instantly make various lists if needed.
The Songbook remembers everything.  You can have it recall pretty much whatever you choose, including Style, Midi File, MP3, lyrics or text file, custom changes to style, Keysets (this is what Korg calls OTS, or one-touch settings.  There are four per style or Songbook entry.  You can use the factory ones or make your own.
Songbook will remember transpose, split point, slider assignment, pad assignments, vocal settings and much more.  In nearly all cases you can choose to Globally lock such settings if you don't want them to change.
Within Songbook you can create your own lists, or filter the lists by genre, name, tempo, artists, just about whatever, if you choose.  You can also assign a number to any or each Songbook entry, so you can instantly recall them via a digital keypad.  For example I can touch the Songbook button twice, enter 2, and a 2/4 country song is loaded with my four favorite sounds, and other settings I like.  All I have to do is play a chord and everything starts.
It is quite easy to learn and use.  While there is a learning curve, I find it much quicker and easier to use than Yamaha Registrations. 
It is one of my favorite features on the Korg.

Online Jeff Hollande

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #53 on: July 05, 2017, 09:28:42 PM »
Hi Don,

Thank you very much for your very interesting information. ☺

The Korg 4X seems to be a very exciting, professional arranger keyboard.
WOW !

What about the sound of the voices compared to Yamaha ?

Plse advise. Thanks, Jeff
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline DonM

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #54 on: July 05, 2017, 10:46:18 PM »
The voices in the PA4X are excellent.  Some are better than Yamaha; some are not as good.   The Korg DNC voices (Dynamic Nuance Control) are similar to Yamaha in that you have three controllers that mimic things that the real instruments do.  There are also some controls built in to the DNC voices, and activated by key touch, aftertouch, legato, etc.,  but probably not as many as Yamaha. 
I do prefer to do most of the bends and vibrato, etc., myself.  Sometimes I find the Yammy guitars doing things I'm not ready for them to do!  But they do sound excellent.
Other than the audio drums, Korg is way ahead in drum sounds, in my opinion.  The Yamaha LIVE kits in the most recent models are showing improvement though.  I feel Yamaha has lagged way behind all the other brands in drums for a number of years.  They seem to be catching up now.  'Bout time.  :)
Yamaha vocal sounds are better, but I don't use them much anyway.  I think Roland has the best vocal sounds.  Ketrons are also very good.
The pianos are excellent.  I already liked them and now the new OS has given us several more that are really great.  Korg pianos tend more to be sampled from Steinways or Busendorfer pianos while Yamaha's are generally sampled from--guess what?  Yamaha pianos!  Both brands sound great to me.  Yamaha grands seem to be a little brighter and cut through the mix "hotter".  Of course the piano sounds from both brands are easily tweaked to sound pretty much as you want them to sound.
The organs are really good, but I don't have a problem with the Yamaha organs either.  I only use the jazz or B3 sounds.  There is a dedicated row of sliders to adjust the organ tabs in real time.  And with a flick of a finger on the Joystick you can turn the Leslie simulator on or off.
Korg has an additional feature to help control sounds--the touch strip.  You can do some interesting effects with it.
I believe the Yamaha strings overall are better.  Again, I don't use them much, other than fiddles and a pad or two, and they are pretty much the same quality.  Yamaha has wonderful big studio-type strings.  But you know that.
There are very good horn and woodwind sounds.  I prefer Yamaha trumpets but not a problem either way.   Only recently have the Korg Saxes started being as good as Yamaha's.   We got two more new ones in the latest free update!   Korg Clarinet is o.k.; Yamaha's is better.  Flutes, vibes, marimbas, I don't see much difference either way.
The accordions are excellent and numerous.  Italian, German, French, Cajun...it has 'em all.  Lots of good presets there.
Until the 4X, I didn't like Korg electric guitars nearly as much as Yamahas, but they came out with an entire new sound set and now have guitars every bit as good as Yamaha.  Some of them don't do as many tricks as Yamaha does, but that's good with me!  I do love the Yamaha Pedal Steel solo voice, and only recently found a Korg one to rival it.
I hope this helps a little.  I never had a problem with any of the Yamaha sounds, other than drums.  I switched because of the abundance of live controls, the size, weight, touch screen and Songbook.  I also like that you can edit, save, and/or totally replace any or all Factory styles. 
But I would never use something that compromised the sound!  We are blessed that everybody has great sounds now.
Sorry for rambling so long.  Hope this helps.

Online Jeff Hollande

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #55 on: July 05, 2017, 11:47:18 PM »
No rambling at all, Don.  ;)

I think you offered us a very honest and serious report.
I want to thank you for that.

It looks like the X4 is a great instrument for gigging whilst Yamaha's highends are more suitable for home use and maybe DAW editing ?

In my case I am a frequent DAW user and have no idea if a Korg 4X or 900 are made for this particular use.

In fact we should to have them both, a Korg and a Yami, right ? ;)

Jeff

 
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline CalUKGR

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #56 on: July 06, 2017, 12:43:50 AM »
I think it's clear Yamaha have to 'bring the goods' with the next iteration of whatever Tyros 6 is going to be. The keyboard/workstation/arranger market has seen so much innovation (even from Yamaha themselves!) in the past few years that if the next flagship arranger from them falls short of what is already out there from other manufacturers then we can probably consider it a fail. One hopes Yamaha realise the sheer level of competition they already face. Tyros/whatever it's called next needs to modernise and modernise fast. It needs to catch up and even surpass the competition that has grown up all around it.

Personally, as Tyros 5 owner, I'm very much on the fence about what happens next as far as my own purchasing decisions go. I've looked on with envy at other arrangers from other manufacturers and seen how crusty and old-fashioned my Tyros 5 now seems. It's out-dated and frankly just a little embarrassing next to some of the new kids in town. Also, Yamaha have not served the Tyros 5 well by way of sound expansions - for example, I recently wrote to the Yamaha music software site to complain that (as far as I am aware) they STILL haven't made available a dedicated premium sound/style expansion set tailored towards Indian (as in the Indian subcontinent) music - despite Yamaha themselves releasing something like the Yamaha PSR-A3000 - a keyboard stuffed to the gills with 'world music' samples, styles and beats. And SE Asian/Oriental music seems almost entirely absent - from a Japanese company building Tyros 5's in China!!! All we seem to get here in Europe are endless European sound expansions - boring, boring, boring. How many trumpets do I need? How many organs and electric pianos? How many easy-listening style sets? How many truly dreadful and dull 'Schlager' sets? *yawn* Where is the variety?

The next flagship arranger from Yamaha is going to have to really convince me that what it's offering - in every aspect (features, GUI, content, expandability, build, etc, etc) - is better in every way than that of its growing competition...
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 12:53:12 AM by CalUKGR »
Yamaha Tyros 5 | Roland A-800 Pro | Cubase 9 Elements | Spectrasonics: Omnisphere, Keyscape & Stylus RMX | Arturia Spark 2 | Yamaha APX 700II 12-String Acoustic-Electric Guitar
 

Offline mikf

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #57 on: July 06, 2017, 03:37:48 AM »
Hi Joe - you addressed one of the videos to me, so I did listen to it!  :)
Musical diversity is a great thing and we can all enjoy creating the kind of music we like. The guy in the video obviously has a great deal of technical skill to produce all the sounds, and he has certainly used an arranger to do it. He might also be an accomplished keyboard player, but that is not really evident from the video, as the actual keyboard playing is pretty elementary, just a few simple chords repeated over and over. The overall result is pleasant to the ears but the satisfaction has to come largely from successfully manipulating sounds and technology, rather than the keyboard playing, and that would just not be something I would enjoy.  I want to spend as close to 100% of the time playing and 0% on the technology as is possible. Of course, unfortunately, ( and I really mean unfortunately) I do have to invest some time in the technology in an advanced electronic instrument like a modern arranger to get the most out of it, but I want it to be as little as possible. Fundamentally, I don't want the manufacturer to give me lots of ways to manipulate the technology I would rather the manufacturer design the arranger so I can get great music without investing much time into the technology. But I  do understand how manipulating the technology to produce unique results might be something many people enjoy. I just don't think those are the people who mostly buy arrangers.   
Mike

Offline billtracy

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #58 on: July 06, 2017, 05:19:57 AM »
Some very good observations here. It seems from reading Don Mason's informative post that he likes most of the Yamaha sounds perhaps even preferring them to the Korg. However, the Korg has better functionality overall, at least that is my takeaway. I think the number one thing Yamaha needs to do with the new arranger is to update the ancient and overly complicated registration system and give users something that more closely resembles the Korg songbook or even the Roland performances. Korg's system just seems to be easier to use and more functional for live play and that is the main purpose of an arranger after all. Others that suggest Yamaha needs to modernize in other areas may be right as well.
Current Gear: Roland E-A7, KRK Rokit 5s, Voicelive Play.
Previously Owned: Yamaha PSR-740, Yamaha PSR-1100, Yamaha PSR-S750, Roland BK-3.
 

Offline Joe H

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #59 on: July 06, 2017, 07:15:58 AM »
Hi Mike,

I just wanted to you to see that EDM can be played on an arranger.  Joost is a very accomplished musician with 12 yeas of classical training.  One of the other players (JayB) in the first videos that I posted also has 12 years of classical training.

I understand and appreciate your point of view and preferences.  I'm not trying to sell anyone on EDM and know it's not popular on this forum.  And I also understand that my interest in electronic dance music at 70 years of age is NOT typical.

This thread was about OS updates that add new features to the Korg keyboard... and wouldn't it be nice if Yamaha did the same. 

My comments are about how those updates get implemented in a practical and useful way.  Obviously we don't all work the same way. 

To each his own!

My reason for posting those links was to make a point that no matter how we choose to use our keyboards... it's about the music... any and all flavors of music.

BTW... from my point of view there are 3 genre of music that are very complex and difficult to play

1. Classical
2. Jazz
3. EDM

Music is the universal language.

Cheers,
Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline voodoo

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #60 on: July 06, 2017, 07:26:12 AM »
BTW... from my point of view there are 3 genre of music that are very complex and difficult to play

1. Classical
2. Jazz
3. EDM

Then you should listen to a typical (speed or progressive) metal solo (guitar or keyboard). And I do not mean punk, but metal.  8)

(But in general, I got your point.)
Yamaha PSR-S970 (sold)
Yamaha Genos (ordered)
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline mikf

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #61 on: July 06, 2017, 08:47:31 AM »
I think that Yamaha registrations are more difficult to use than they need to be. People who use them all the time will tell you they are simple and wonderful, but over the years a lot of the operational questions on this forum are about the use of registrations. So the evidence suggests they are not as straightforward as they could be, and the Korg sounds much more intuitive and inclusive.
Mike

Offline Al Ram

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #62 on: July 06, 2017, 11:08:33 AM »
Don and others

Thank you for responding to my question about registrations on the Korg.  It seems that the Korg have a similar approach
to record the state/setup of the keyboard at any given time.

The reason i asked is that on the Yamaha Tyros there are 8 physical buttons to record and then recall the registrations while playing live.  To recall a registration you simply press on the desired registration (1 to 8) .   I did not see any registration buttons on the Korg keyboard layout.     

So, how do you actually recall the registrations or equivalent on the Korg, ?  is there a physical button or is this in the touch screen . .  ? or . .  ?

Also, I am currently using the SongBook+  app on my ipad connected to the Tyros to display my PDF's  . . . when i recall a registration on the keyboard, the PDF is automatically displayed on the ipad.   Can the Korgs also connect to this app and diplay the PDF's on the ipad . . . .  ?

thanks a lot in advance and have a great day.

AL
San Diego/Tijuana
 

Offline J. Larry

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #63 on: July 06, 2017, 11:24:59 AM »
Many good points of view expressed here.  I agree with much of what has been written.  As a Yamaha person, I hope that any new arrangers are not too complicated to learn and use.  Count me in the group, who loves to play and not tinker with what’s under the hood.  Or, the least amount of tinkering that’s necessary is what I’d vote for.  Wouldn’t it be interesting to know, world-wide, what the general skill level is among all arranger purchases?  Do the manufacturers know?  What percentage might be working pros, compared to low-level to medium hackers like me?     
 

Offline DonM

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #64 on: July 06, 2017, 11:41:05 AM »
Don and others

Thank you for responding to my question about registrations on the Korg.  It seems that the Korg have a similar approach
to record the state/setup of the keyboard at any given time.

The reason i asked is that on the Yamaha Tyros there are 8 physical buttons to record and then recall the registrations while playing live.  To recall a registration you simply press on the desired registration (1 to 8) .   I did not see any registration buttons on the Korg keyboard layout.     

So, how do you actually recall the registrations or equivalent on the Korg, ?  is there a physical button or is this in the touch screen . .  ? or . .  ?

Also, I am currently using the SongBook+  app on my ipad connected to the Tyros to display my PDF's  . . . when i recall a registration on the keyboard, the PDF is automatically displayed on the ipad.   Can the Korgs also connect to this app and diplay the PDF's on the ipad . . . .  ?

thanks a lot in advance and have a great day.



You use either touchscreen or keypad to select Songbook entries.  However, as Bachus said, you have 12 buttons that will instantly select entries to Set Lists.  These would work exactly as you want.
It's quick and easy to create the Set Lists from Songbook, only a single click! 

Offline Joe H

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #65 on: July 06, 2017, 11:57:39 AM »
J.

I think manufacturers target a buying audience.  Arrangers have evolved from the simple play only with almost no editing or even the ability to load new styles to what we see today.  I think Korg is demonstrating that there is a new arranger player who want more of the functionality of a Kronos or a Montage performance keyboard.  Some of us have expressed that here.

So... does Yamaha approach the future with offering the old standby arranger with 1970s, 80s and 90s content for those players like yourself who don't care to do any modifications or editing, and produce a second full featured arranger for those who want real-time controllers and editing capabilities.

I'm not sure it is practical even for a company as large as Yamaha to build 2 distinctly different high-end arrangers.  It could be that the next arranger will have more bells and whistles and if we want a basic sit and play machine we will have to settle for a lesser quality instrument.

Joe H
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 05:52:50 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline metcam

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #66 on: July 06, 2017, 01:08:58 PM »
I think that Yamaha registrations are more difficult to use than they need to be. People who use them all the time will tell you they are simple and wonderful, but over the years a lot of the operational questions on this forum are about the use of registrations. So the evidence suggests they are not as straightforward as they could be, and the Korg sounds much more intuitive and inclusive.
Mike

Hi Mike

On gigs I play ,,ONLY trough Registrations.

The Way I use Registrations is:  ONE SONG=ONE REGISTRATIONS BANK.

I have around 600 Registrations bank in my "Live play list". Spend a quiet time to make the way I want to,,but on Live performance I USE ONLY Reg.Bank as I said.When I finishing one song same second I am ready for NEXT.NO WAIT TIME.
My knowledge with KORG arrangers (Not include PAX4) is very well and I can say the REGISTRATION BANK on Yamaha are as this moment most POWERFULL tools.

KORG have, in my opinions,  many others thing better than Yamaha (on board voice/style creator ,portamento ,style half bar, touch screen etc... ) but Registrations in my opinions are more powerfull than Song book on Korg.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 01:10:48 PM by metcam »
Curent Instruments: Tyros5-61,,,PSR-A3000
Previus instruments:PSR9000,Tyros2,Tyros3,psr2000,psr2100,psr1500,psr530,psr OR700,DX7,DX11,V50,DX21.
KORG:pa800,KORG PA-900,Triton Extreme,Triton rack,.KORG X3,Roland G600.Roland D20.........
 

Offline mikf

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #67 on: July 07, 2017, 05:33:26 AM »
From what I am reading the Korg PA4 songbook feature does not sound less powerful than registrations, but  whether that is correct or not, I was more referring to how easy they are to work with, and I don't think Yamaha win the prize there.
I know a lot of people use registrations extensively, storing multiple settings for every song which cover every section of the song, but I have to say that it seems a very regimented way to play to me. What Don said rings much more with me, i.e. you use them to easily access a range of favorite settings that work for many songs. I have met Don a couple of times, and he is a real good player, and I think that like many experienced players, and I include myself, works more along the lines of think of a song, play it. So we just need a style that works well for that song, and can be easily found. It doesn't need to be exact, because we interpret, play our own intros and endings and fills, and probably don't want the stress of trying to remember exactly what happens when we press button 4. If someone says to me can you play 'Wave' I think Bossa, tap in a tempo and go. I like to keep one of my pedals on tap tempo, just for this reason. I think that a lot of players work this way rather than spend  time setting up an exact framework for the song, then documenting that, and then have to access not just the right registration bank but the document and maybe the music etc when they want to play it.
Mike

Offline mrplum

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #68 on: July 07, 2017, 08:27:53 AM »
mikf: "I think that like many experienced players, and I include myself, works more along the lines of think of a song, play it..."
YES !! very much true for me as well...
cvp605, tyros5-76, kurzweil
 

Offline Cosmorot

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #69 on: July 07, 2017, 10:48:45 AM »
 ;D I'm afraid Korg is very behind the T5. To achieve such a "live" sound from the Korg is impossible.

But this is how Yamaha sounds:
https://soundcloud.com/slap-overheat/the-beatles-michelledemotyros-5/s-nsnO5
Or This (There's only a solo guitar life. All the rest and guitar riffs are Tyros 5)  :
https://soundcloud.com/slap-overheat/tyros-5-rock-demo/s-9hDE7
And Pop Sound (all in T5):
https://soundcloud.com/slap-overheat/i-want-to-odessa-1
And one feature will not make me change THIS sound! Vivat Tyros 5!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 11:00:32 AM by Cosmorot »
 

Offline Cosmorot

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #70 on: July 07, 2017, 01:28:38 PM »
Apparently you did not mix live band. I released a lot of SD. As for the Korg, I had m3 and pa4. Their sound is very far away from the "living" one. I do not regret selling them. Korgs try to all frequency spectrum of each instrument. In this case, a complete lack of "live" harmonics.
     I also do not like the approach of Yamaha in wanting to unnecessarily decorate your sound spoil everything with a fat reverberator.
In the early 90's it was possible to fluctuate between the choice of Yamaha, Korg or Roland...
    Now the choice is obvious. (As for the organ and piano sounds, Nord has not heard anything yet). Guitars, Brass, Wood, Drums, Saxophones are the best (yet) for T5.
 

Offline dihelson

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #71 on: July 07, 2017, 04:03:17 PM »

I agree with Bachus, don´t underestimate Korg Pa4x sounds nor architecture. It´s a very nice instrument from all points of view, from the guys who make Kronos, one of the most fantastic instruments out there. Tyros 5 is amazing, but since the new Pa4x, we hope that Yamaha responds to dozens of new requests to keep up with leadership.
Time doesn´t matter. What matter most is how you live your little minutes. You´re unique amongst 7 billion people living on this planet. Live well !
 

Offline advid

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #72 on: July 08, 2017, 02:39:40 AM »
I think that a lot of players work this way rather than spend  time setting up an exact framework for the song, then documenting that, and then have to access not just the right registration bank but the document and maybe the music etc when they want to play it.

...I also agree with you....I have about 10 main rhythms that I use for literally hundreds of songs...(If a song is good it can be played in any way you like)...I just have to remember what key to play or sing it in...I've done 3/4 waltzes in 4/4 and many other variations -- I play just as I feel like at that time....I like improvising and if I want to add a bit more solo or repeat another verse then that's what i do....You can't do it so easily when you've got multiple registation buttons to remember to press.... I play both my Tyros and Korg.... for live gigs the Korg does me just fine.... For playing/recording at home (perhaps) the Tyros...but not always...
 

Offline mikf

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #73 on: July 08, 2017, 05:33:07 AM »
I guess we have changed the topic a bit, but interesting nonetheless. I see so many people pushing very detailed registration bank per song as the 'way to go' that when Don M touched on it, I thought it worth pointing out that there are other excellent options. And while some good players go the way of detailed registrations, I suspect many, maybe even the majority, do not, especially those that are expert 'ear' players.
Mike 

Offline billtracy

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #74 on: July 08, 2017, 08:13:01 AM »
Even though I am just a "home player" and not a pro, I would not consider Yamaha right now unless they update the musicfinder to be more like the Korg songbook or the Roland performances which they now call UPG. I had a PSR-S750 and got rid of it for that reason. But I will be keeping an eye on the Genos, although it would take a while for the introduction of a new line in my price range that would have the Genos feature set.
Current Gear: Roland E-A7, KRK Rokit 5s, Voicelive Play.
Previously Owned: Yamaha PSR-740, Yamaha PSR-1100, Yamaha PSR-S750, Roland BK-3.
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #75 on: July 08, 2017, 09:17:10 AM »
Hi
Why does nobody see that these new things on korgs etc are gimmicky and only good for someone who wants a tape recorder basically.
At least with the tyros you can play music.
I hate all this modern repetitive music that one finger can produce.The same with all those flashing buttons that play samples on square pads "BUY A TAPE RECORDER!!!
I personally love the real time knobs on a solid built keyboard.
The more you practice music ,the easier It becomes and shortcuts are a waste of time.Learn to read music.

With all this auto stuff ,it makes a player look like a Eurovision song contest waste of time,with music equivillent to a kids wind up music toy!!


IMO!!!! 8)  More Pink Floyd ,Camel,Focus, Caravan, Santana,Steve Hillage, Deep Purple ,Black Sabbath , Jeff Waynes' War of the Worlds, Yes, Chris Rea, and Morcambe and wise "Bring me Sunshine"!!! and get rid of the Schlager music, more Eurorubbish!!  BREXIT NOW!!!

The only thing that annoys me with the Tyros 5  Is those flaming Doo DoooooS!!!  YUK!!! .                       
  Rant now over!!! :o :-X :'( ;D :) ::)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 09:27:17 AM by ugawoga »
 

Offline metcam

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #76 on: July 08, 2017, 12:51:53 PM »
And while some good players go the way of detailed registrations, I suspect many, maybe even the majority, do not, especially those that are expert 'ear' players.
Mike


Expert 'ear' players, it's not that hard  to play "western music" but if you play "Eastern Europe"  or Middle East music or from somewhere else is much more complicated and much much more needs in live performances.
I tried few times with KORG and just because "Registrations memory banks"  I am still with Yamaha.
I use almost 100% external samples and styles in Tyros5,,but as I said "Registrations memory" is reason I am on Yamaha.
Reading Posts by DonM  ,,,many thanks to him,,,,I am going to try pretty soon KORG PAX4.....Maybee.....    :)

Regards

Curent Instruments: Tyros5-61,,,PSR-A3000
Previus instruments:PSR9000,Tyros2,Tyros3,psr2000,psr2100,psr1500,psr530,psr OR700,DX7,DX11,V50,DX21.
KORG:pa800,KORG PA-900,Triton Extreme,Triton rack,.KORG X3,Roland G600.Roland D20.........
 

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #77 on: July 08, 2017, 03:19:44 PM »
What I'd like to know is, if Yamaha is so tight lipped about their new release, why is everyone calling it the Genos? Did I miss something? Did Yamaha let the name slip out?

Also, I watched a few videos on the PA4X and found the demonstrator to be a rank amateur compared to Yamaha's demonstrators. The very styles I was most interested in were seldom used in the videos. Instead, they were replaced with all this dance and thump crap that I never use. At this point, I'm not impressed with the styles on the PA4X. Country, Rock and Roll, Jazz, and Blues are my requirements. Perhaps someone could provide a link to a decent demo where these styles are used. The few that were used are not even close to the T5 ones.

As for touch screens, do you want another computer or a real gigging keyboard? Give me knobs any day of the week. My Nord Electro 5D is all driven by knobs. There is nothing faster than knobs for "on the fly" adjustments. I can't play a keyboard and drill down through touch screen menus looking for the right settings all at the same time.
Current Gear: Tyros 5, Nord Electro 5D, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compact speakers, 15 inch subwoofer designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44 sound interface.
 

Offline Roger Brenizer

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #78 on: July 08, 2017, 04:08:54 PM »
I don't believe that Yamaha let anything slip, Lee.  I believe everyone surmises, because Yamaha Corporation has trademarked this name, that it will be Yamaha's next keyboard release.

https://trademarks.justia.com/870/87/genos-87087567.html

http://www.trademarkia.com/genos-87087567.html
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 07:14:17 PM by Roger Brenizer »
"Music Is My Life"
My best regards,
Roger

(The older I get...the better I used to be...LOL!!!)
Roger’s PSR Performer Page
 

Offline Joe H

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #79 on: July 08, 2017, 04:58:03 PM »
And the Winner is...

 ;D   ;D   ;D

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline billtracy

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #80 on: July 08, 2017, 06:22:42 PM »
What I'd like to know is, if Yamaha is so tight lipped about their new release, why is everyone calling it the Genos? Did I miss something? Did Yamaha let the name slip out?

Also, I watched a few videos on the PA4X and found the demonstrator to be a rank amateur compared to Yamaha's demonstrators. The very styles I was most interested in were seldom used in the videos. Instead, they were replaced with all this dance and thump crap that I never use. At this point, I'm not impressed with the styles on the PA4X. Country, Rock and Roll, Jazz, and Blues are my requirements. Perhaps someone could provide a link to a decent demo where these styles are used. The few that were used are not even close to the T5 ones.

As for touch screens, do you want another computer or a real gigging keyboard? Give me knobs any day of the week. My Nord Electro 5D is all driven by knobs. There is nothing faster than knobs for "on the fly" adjustments. I can't play a keyboard and drill down through touch screen menus looking for the right settings all at the same time.

I agree on the Korg demonstrator-not a big fan. Yamaha does indeed have some amazing people, Baartmans, Harris and Vonken. On the synth side of things they have Phil Clendenon who is not only a fantastic player but one of the more knowledgeable people I have seen. Roland, on the other hand, doesn't even make promotional videos for their arrangers beyond simple sales pitches.

Not to open an old can of worms, but I agree on the touchscreens 100 percent. There is a perception that since every cell phone etc. has a touchscreen that it is new technology and therefore superior. I have yet to understand why this would be so. But I have never used one on a keyboard, so maybe I am wrong.
Current Gear: Roland E-A7, KRK Rokit 5s, Voicelive Play.
Previously Owned: Yamaha PSR-740, Yamaha PSR-1100, Yamaha PSR-S750, Roland BK-3.
 

Online chony

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #81 on: July 08, 2017, 07:38:29 PM »
;D I'm afraid Korg is very behind the T5. To achieve such a "live" sound from the Korg is impossible.

But this is how Yamaha sounds:
https://soundcloud.com/slap-overheat/the-beatles-michelledemotyros-5/s-nsnO5
Or This (There's only a solo guitar life. All the rest and guitar riffs are Tyros 5)  :
https://soundcloud.com/slap-overheat/tyros-5-rock-demo/s-9hDE7
And Pop Sound (all in T5):
https://soundcloud.com/slap-overheat/i-want-to-odessa-1
And one feature will not make me change THIS sound! Vivat Tyros 5!

Nice try. The last 2 recordings are not a Tyros 5, and if it is, all of the sounds, drums and styles are custom, and you can do that on Korg too. (Except perhaps the sax on the last one, and if so, there's a better sax on T5).

Where are these styles and sounds from?
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 07:43:21 PM by chony »
 

Offline emasters

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #82 on: July 08, 2017, 08:13:35 PM »
Not to open an old can of worms, but I agree on the touchscreens 100 percent. There is a perception that since every cell phone etc. has a touchscreen that it is new technology and therefore superior. I have yet to understand why this would be so. But I have never used one on a keyboard, so maybe I am wrong.

For screen navigation, touch is nice, if done well.  Something to check-out if you've not already, is TouchOSC by Hexler or Lemur by Liine.  Both are configurable tablet environments, where you can create your own (or download other's) interfaces.  The on-screen controls can send midi cc, midi note, midi system exclusive, etc. data.  For many things, a dedicated knob, slider or button works really well (for example, on my XK3C, having detented drawbars, really adds to the experience of selecting organ registrations).  Filter cut-off and resonance is so much better using knobs.  But there are also limitations to dedicated hardware inputs.  For example, with TouchOSC, I have a great XY pad for a classical violin (Kontakt instrument) where one axis is vibrato speed and the other axis is vibrato intensity.  It's so intuitive and easy to use -- and I'm not sure how one would do this with one hand another way.  My perspective is customers benefit from both dedicated hardware controllers and the ability to use a creative, configurable screen interface that leverages things that others have been doing for some time now - not one versus the other.  It's my hope that Yamaha embraces both leading UI techniques and good old-fashioned knobs, buttons and sliders, moving forward.

Online Jeff Hollande

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #83 on: July 09, 2017, 01:53:20 AM »
The Genos will come with a touch screen, I guess.
At the end of October 2017 this new high end keyboard will be available for sale. :)

Jeff
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline mikf

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #84 on: July 09, 2017, 03:33:11 AM »
https://youtu.be/4sZ_UNFWoDw
If you are skeptical about the value of touchscreens on an arranger, take a look at the brilliant ensemble feature (video link above) on the latest CVPs. I have this, and it is very easy and intuitive, and shows the future potential of touchscreens.
When I see discussion about 'live' control, I believe that different people look for very different things. Some people mean by live control the ability to edit, manipulate sounds and effects in real time while playing. I tend to agree with that might be best with knobs and buttons. But other people mean something entirely different. They want the ability to find,select and deselect features easily and rapidly while performing, in a way that is intuitive and visual. The also want the designer to have done most of the work to make it easy for them, so they can concentrate on performance. For example, the opening and closing of the grand piano lid, is not just a volume change, but should subtly change the tone and resonance of the piano. You don't want to have to play around to do that yourself, you want that to have been done for you, and be single touch. The touchscreen piano room and ensemble feature delivers this big time, and I can see how in the future this can expand to have very visual control of styles. For example its a very short step to add an icon of strings to the current piano room feature where touching it would bring a string layer in and out. And in the future I can envisage a screen that shows visually shows all the instruments in a style, and you can pull them in and out by touching their image on the screen.
While there will always be a number of people who love to get under the hood and do unique things with sounds and styles, for the typical arranger player simplification of the selection interface will have high appeal, and this is where the touchscreen can take us. Tis is very definitely not the same thing as the 'instrument playing for you, far from it, its about allowing you to play without unnecessary messing with technology.
Mike

Offline terryB

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #85 on: July 09, 2017, 03:50:05 AM »
Great post Mike, that's the future, got to be on T5 successor.
As I get more accustomed to touch screen on my phone and tablets I find myself trying to use the T5 screen as a touchscreen.
No reason not to have some control knobs as well

Cheers Terry
 

Offline billtracy

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #86 on: July 09, 2017, 07:08:57 AM »
The Genos will come with a touch screen, I guess.
At the end of October 2017 this new high end keyboard will be available for sale. :)

Jeff

Since Montage has a touch screen, it is almost certain the Genos (or whatever) will.
Current Gear: Roland E-A7, KRK Rokit 5s, Voicelive Play.
Previously Owned: Yamaha PSR-740, Yamaha PSR-1100, Yamaha PSR-S750, Roland BK-3.
 

Offline Joe H

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #87 on: July 09, 2017, 01:39:47 PM »
I somewhat disagree with you on Phil Clendenon, because he also has a dark side, he is as arrogant as he is knowledgable... and he doesn't listen to the customers that have other needs than him, but instead blames them for not thinking the Yamaha way.. no, he is always defending, and never listening...

... Definitely give me a bad taste about Phil...

Based on my own personal experience, I sadly must agree with your assessment of Phil.

 :(     :'(

Joe H
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 01:42:57 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline billtracy

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #88 on: July 09, 2017, 03:09:02 PM »
Joe and Bachus,

I have no personal experience with him, I just have enjoyed watching his videos. Out of curiosity, were the remarks on the forums or elsewhere?
Current Gear: Roland E-A7, KRK Rokit 5s, Voicelive Play.
Previously Owned: Yamaha PSR-740, Yamaha PSR-1100, Yamaha PSR-S750, Roland BK-3.
 

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #89 on: July 09, 2017, 03:51:05 PM »
Phil is definitely an expert on the Motif and now Montage series. He's no dummy, however, I must admit, he had a condescending tone when answering my questions about my MOX8. Perhaps Yamaha could teach him some personal skills. The user group who purchase these keyboards is very broad - from novice to expert. If Phil is only capable of communicating with the expert level users, then Yamaha has the wrong guy for the job. Perhaps he monitors this site. If so, then Phil hear this - your keyboard and technical skills are second to none. For more information about people skills, consult any of the fine users in this forum :). You're a very valuable asset but none of that matters if you can't communicate on all levels.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 03:52:15 PM by Lee Batchelor »
Current Gear: Tyros 5, Nord Electro 5D, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compact speakers, 15 inch subwoofer designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44 sound interface.
 

Offline Joe H

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #90 on: July 09, 2017, 11:20:02 PM »
Joe and Bachus,

I have no personal experience with him, I just have enjoyed watching his videos. Out of curiosity, were the remarks on the forums or elsewhere?

I'm not interested in beating up on Phil, I was just sharing my experience.  We all have our flaws... I think Lee stated it well.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Del B

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #91 on: July 10, 2017, 05:29:14 AM »
Looks like a lot of peeps going to buy a Korg if Yammy don't deliver :-\
 

Online Jeff Hollande

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #92 on: July 10, 2017, 05:52:29 AM »
Hi Del,

I think it would be useful to wait for the Genos before making any decision.

In the meantime we know Yami will introduce their Genos to their dealers in September 2017.
It will be ready for sale in October 2017.

Maybe we may expect a spectacular high end kb ?
I feel very sorry Yami are not offering any news yet ... or can we expect some news shortly ... we do not know.

Cross my fingers. ::)

Jeff



« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 06:02:26 AM by Jeff Hollande »
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline EileenL

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #93 on: July 10, 2017, 06:06:29 AM »
I think many people will keep there Tyros 5 boards as they have better voicing and bigger selection of styles than Korg.

Offline Joe H

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #94 on: July 10, 2017, 07:25:01 AM »
Looks like a lot of peeps going to buy a Korg if Yammy don't deliver :-\

Yea... looks like all 6 or 7 of them just might do that. Then there will be a little less moaning around here.

 ;D

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Online chony

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #95 on: July 10, 2017, 07:45:14 AM »
Yea... looks like all 6 or 7 of them just might do that. Then there will be a little less moaning around here.

 ;D

Joe H

Ouch. Lol.

Its true though. If Yamaha does not offer modern EDM options on its new flagship the only people who will stay loyal are the senior crowd.
 

Offline Joe H

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #96 on: July 10, 2017, 08:01:28 AM »
Ouch. Lol.

Its true though. If Yamaha does not offer modern EDM options on its new flagship the only people who will stay loyal are the senior crowd.

I agree, though I'm not one of THEM (I'm pushing 70 years of age)

As I have stated before, if Yamaha only offers senior citizens "content" in their arrangers, then what can they expect but to have primarily a senior citizen buyer.  Add contemporary drum kits, SFX kits, Voices, styles and Multi Pads and a younger buyer will get interested.  The Live Control and live arpeggiator are a start in the right direction.

There is now at least a couple of third party expansion packs for EDM.  The EDM Essential 1 by Styles2psr and Magic Dance by Easy Sounds that are making things more promising as far as "content" but there needs to be better real-time control and editing capabilities.

I'm one of those hoping for some serious change (improvement) as noted above.  I can deal with a touch screen as well...  as long as those hardware controls don't go away.

 ;)

Joe H
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 11:53:49 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Al Ram

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #97 on: July 10, 2017, 11:04:09 AM »
Hello Friends.

After seeing all the opinions going back and forth, i wish to provide my two cents.  Apologize in advance if I say something uncomfortable to anyone.

I really think it is not a question of loyalty or age or anything like that. !!!   

It is simply to make the decision that better fits YOUR needs.

You select a keyboard or a car or whatever . . . based on what YOU think is the best decision for YOU. 

If anyone thinks that Korg is a better fit for their needs or desire, just do it.   If anyone thinks Yamaha is a better fit just get it.

No need to convince other people.    Supply and demand will do the job.    !!!! 

The best way to vote is with your dollars.  !!!!

The reason i signed-up on THIS forum is because I have Yamaha keyboards and knew i could get help and benefit from the knowledge and experience of other players using similar keyboard(s).  If i had a Korg keyboard i would have signed up on a Korg forum.

This Forum has been a tremendous help to me and I have learned a LOT from other experienced players.

I am sure that Korg is an excellent product.!!!  Not sure it would be the right fit for me because I have lots of songs, styles, multipads, registrations, etc already setup on my Tyros and not sure how those will transfer easily to Korg.

Another thing we tend to forget is that it is NOT the keyboard . . . . it is the player.   !!!!!!    I am sure that there are players out there so good that they will sound superb with either Korg, Yamaha, Roland or whatever . . . . is the player that counts the most.   

I have benefited a lot from this Korg/Yamaha topic and learned more about Korg products. If anyone wants to convert to Korg, great, just do it.  But I think the comparison is totally unnecessary (at least to me) because each product has their own niche.     

The best way to compare would be to go to Guitar Center and play both keyboards.

Thanks and have a great day.

AL
San Diego/Tijuana
 
The following users thanked this post: Joe H, thomas750

Offline metcam

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #98 on: July 10, 2017, 11:05:46 AM »
Looks like a lot of peeps going to buy a Korg if Yammy don't deliver :-\

Or just simply stay with Tyros5.   :)
Curent Instruments: Tyros5-61,,,PSR-A3000
Previus instruments:PSR9000,Tyros2,Tyros3,psr2000,psr2100,psr1500,psr530,psr OR700,DX7,DX11,V50,DX21.
KORG:pa800,KORG PA-900,Triton Extreme,Triton rack,.KORG X3,Roland G600.Roland D20.........
 

Offline Joe H

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #99 on: July 10, 2017, 11:11:06 AM »
Thanks Al... you just made my day!

 :)     ;)

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html