Author Topic: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg  (Read 14409 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline chony

 
The following users thanked this post: marcodg

Offline Joe H

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2017, 08:40:56 PM »
Doing all that stuff from a touch screen is just awful.  Give me real knobs.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Online Jeff Hollande

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2017, 01:17:17 AM »
Having some Korg experience, I fully agree with your statement, Joe !

Apparently the new Yamaha Genos will come with a touch screen.
And ... perhaps the S770 and S790 successors will have a touch screen too, who knows ... ::)

If that will happen then I am looking forward to reading all comments in the near future.

Jeff
XGW - SONAR PLATINUM - CUBASE 8 WIN - MIXCRAFT8
 

Offline guitpic1

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2017, 01:33:22 AM »
A number of folks have switched to Korg...me included.  I still have an S970 but it's in its case in storage.
guitpic1

PA 4X, S970, DGX650, JBL Eon One, SSV.3
 
The following users thanked this post: Aulis

Offline DerekA

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2017, 01:55:08 AM »
I think I'd need a cheat sheet to remind me what all those buttons and options did ... I might spend so much time pressing them that I forgot to play something.
S770
 

Offline Bill

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2017, 02:31:09 AM »
I think that what Chony is trying to suggest is that Korg give the PA4X owners new features in a major update. It is not about providing a Touch screen.

Unfortunately Yamaha are only interested in updates to include them is the NEXT keyboard NOT the current one.

Korg have provided many new features in this update for free.

Bill
England

Tyros 5/76
 

Online Jeff Hollande

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2017, 03:23:04 AM »
Hi,

Reading your comments,  I am impressed  the new Korg's high end arranger keyboards are more offering than most of us might expect or wish. ::)

I wonder if Korg will launch a Genos competitor soon ... or will an update be enough to convince us to go for Korg's arranger keyboards. Hard to believe, I guess. ;)

Will Korg finally be able to produce enough software to become a worldwide arranger keyboard leader ?

In my opinion Yamaha will do whatever is possible to maintain their global position.

Jeff

XGW - SONAR PLATINUM - CUBASE 8 WIN - MIXCRAFT8
 

Offline mikf

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2017, 03:32:34 AM »
Most of us who already have Yamaha arrangers are probably reluctant to re invest in a new operating system and losing the immense legacy of Yamaha styles etc. But I have to say that starting from a blank sheet I might choose the Korg today. Seems technically more advanced, more player friendly and they support customers with upgrades. It's possible Yamaha sounds may be better, but that might be more about personal preference than real. All the Korgs I have heard sound just fine.
Mike

Online Jeff Hollande

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2017, 04:12:27 AM »
Hi Mike,

There must be a reason why Yamaha finally became the market leader.

A long time ago Korg and Yamaha were working together very closely.
Nowadays it looks like this partnership does not longer exist which I personally regret.

Additional Korg technology would surely be a very useful tool for Yamaha.

Maybe one day Korg will become part of the Yamaha family.

It is a small world that changed a lot when Yamaha introduced the Tyros in 2002.


Jeff
XGW - SONAR PLATINUM - CUBASE 8 WIN - MIXCRAFT8
 

Offline mikf

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2017, 05:49:02 AM »
2002 is a long time ago in the technology world, and sometimes complacency lets the market leader be caught - ask Polaroid.
Mike

Offline guitpic1

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2017, 06:57:26 AM »
Yamaha makes very nice arrangers...for the home players especially.

However for me, I play live several times a month.  I used a Tyros 4 and a PSR S970 for a couple of years.  But when I finally went to the PA 4X, just the best thing for live play I've used.  You've probably heard all the comparisons.

Regarding touch screen.  Didn't have it before, now I really depend on it...makes live play SO MUCH easier.

 :)

guitpic1

PA 4X, S970, DGX650, JBL Eon One, SSV.3
 

Offline advid

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2017, 07:29:20 AM »
...I quite agree..for home the Yamahas are fine....better instrument sounds, particularly on the Tyros..BUT for live play Korgs are the way to go....The audience usually cant tell a Steinway piano from an upright in most cases...

Offline hammer

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2017, 07:36:33 AM »
Can't say I agree with some of the comments here.  I have owned and gigged with the Korg PA4X, the Ketron SD7, and the Tyros4.  I absolutely love the touch screens on the Korg and the Ketron but the Ketron touch screen is by far the best of the two.

I currently own only the Tyros 4 and the Ketron SD7 - sold the Korg.  I use both for gigs at different times and really have no issues with either system.

Deane

Offline DonM

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2017, 08:10:48 AM »
I have been playing the PA4X since it came out and I'm extremely pleased with it.  I can't see ever going back to an arranger that doesn't have a touch screen and a wonderful voice processor/harmonizer.
I had the PA3x and a PA900 before that, and they keep getting better.
The new update is almost like getting a new keyboard, for free.
As far as variety of styles, Korg issues a new folder of free styles at least once or twice a year.   And, the built-in midi-to-style converter works great in most cases and gives you really unlimited new styles.  Sometimes you have to tweak them a little, but that holds true with most third party styles as well.
Also, among many other additions, the new OS automatically makes a Chord Sequence from midi files, so you can convert a midi file to a style and either use it that way, or play along with the chord sequence and not have to change chords manually. 
I have owned nearly every arranger from Yamaha, Roland, Ketron, Technics and Korg for many years and find this one suits me better than all the others. 
The Tyros takes itself out of my consideration because of the large size and bulky configuration.  It's just too much trouble to move every day. 
The Korg PA4X61 is actually smaller than the PSRs and just a little heavier.
The good news is that there are no wrong choices in arrangers.  Just use what you like and you can make amazing music on any of them!
As Hammer said, Ketron has some amazing arrangers, and they sound fantastic and they have some wonderful features.  I just found them too unreliable and the company is very lacking in support.  There is one person in the U.S. who can support them, and he failed me when I needed him!
If I were just playing at home for my own enjoyment and didn't depend on the arranger for my living, I would certainly have a Ketron in my arsenal. 
Sorry for rambling.  Like everyone else, I'm anxious to see what the future holds from Yamaha!

Offline guitpic1

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2017, 10:25:00 AM »
What Don said.

 :)

On another note.  In my mind Korg really raised the bar with the 4X...both in capabilities and bang for the $$$.

Yamaha would really have to have something special...at a very competitive price to get me to go back.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 10:27:55 AM by guitpic1 »
guitpic1

PA 4X, S970, DGX650, JBL Eon One, SSV.3
 

Online Jeff Hollande

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2017, 10:31:11 AM »
I wonder if Ketron will survive.
Jeff
XGW - SONAR PLATINUM - CUBASE 8 WIN - MIXCRAFT8
 

Offline Joe H

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2017, 11:51:51 AM »
Two points,

1. Yamaha used to offer new features in the arranger via firmware updates but that ended with the PSR 9000 Pro.

2.  Touch screens may be useful for certain editing but not real-time control.  The stuff I do requires an external MIDI controller using a foot pedal that functions much like the Montage Super Knob.  The Montage also has dedicated knobs and buttons as does the Motif so you have the option of touch screen vs hardware controls.  Realtime control should never be required via a touch screen only.  I need my hands to play the music... no time for messing with a touch screen.

Even the limitations of the S970 LIVE CONTROL knobs are better than a touch screen (they should be encoder knobs that allow smooth changes without regard to knob position)

Joe H
« Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 11:53:05 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline DonM

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2017, 01:58:19 PM »
Joe, if you like the real-time controls on the S970, you will go crazy over the PA4X.  It has two banks of fully-programmable sliders, eight sliders each, plus they also are used for organ sliders and two sets of pre-programmed controls.  They control midi channels in real time when you are in that mode.
In addition there are three programmable buttons directly beside left hand.
The new OS update adds KAOSS, which allows you to do all kinds of things to the sound in real time.
Korg's EC5 foot controller is light weight and inexpensive and is also fully programmable, with five pedals on it.
Most all live functions on the 4X have buttons in addition to the touch screen, so you have your choice there.
The new update also allows the USB inputs to receive midi signals if you choose.  Korg has several small module controllers that work in that manner, plus a free app to program them.  They are about $60.!
Since the S970 did include the real-time controls, I'm sure the top of the line replacement for Tyros will have many more.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 01:59:59 PM by DonM »
DonM
 

Offline Joe H

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2017, 03:44:09 PM »
Don,

I'm sure Yamaha have been watching Korg.  The S970 represents the beginning of some change in design.  I thank Korg for pushing the envelope... I think it is forcing Yamaha to pay attention.

My Peavey PC1600x controller offers UNLIMITED MIDI implementation.  Since I don't gig, the controller sits right above my keyboard in my studio setup at less than arms length and is the closest thing to having 16 faders and 16 buttons right on the S970 Panel itself.

As others have expressed, I'm too invested in Yamaha to change to a different manufacturer.  I've created far too much MIDI related setups to even begin to describe here.  Now that I have lots of new Voices and am well on my way to creating some serious musical arrangements on my Yamaha arranger.

Unless Yamaha offers some SIGNIFICANT upgrades in the S970 replacement, I most likely won't upgrade ever again. Along with the S970 Preset Voices I now have several Voice expansion packs , the Motif Rack XS, my Analog, FM, VL and Grand Piano plug-in cards that all add up to several thousand sounds to choose from and the ability to manipulate any and all of them with my PC1600x controller.

I'm good to go!    ;D

Joe H
« Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 07:45:48 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2017, 04:23:45 PM »
I am using Tyros 5.
And I see the greatness of Korg 2.0 this time not just with the touch screen to do everything. That is the update itself.
Never before has Yamaha created an update where it has new features, new styles, or new voices .... it's almost patches to fix bugs that are not silly. Everyone also met.
Unlike Yamaha, the Korg Pa4x makes a great update, and I feel like people are getting a new one.
I'm considering switching to using Pa4x for my job.
Tyros 5 with MUTEC 2Gb + Roland RD-300NX
 

Offline chony

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2017, 08:50:41 PM »
I doubt there's anyone out there who has invested more time, money and effort into the Yamaha Tyros series than me. I spend at least 6-8 weeks each year just programming new material and have spent over $20K over the years creating material.

But Yamaha simply has fallen too far behind Korg in the professional area and in the EDM area. Even YEM was created because of the massive backlash from us T5 users who suddenly found ourselves castrated by Yamaha Inc. Yamaha creates keyboards for users, not for creators.

I have a hunch that Yamaha has something BIG in the making which would explain the 4 year wait for the new model, but I hope it's not just an upgraded Tyros but a new concept and new attitude based on a respect for the creativity of its users.

Otherwise I'm out. I'll take the loss. I'll spend time and money building my music on Korg. It's a long term investment and it's worth it for me.

I can guarantee many others will follow...

Offline Al Ram

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2017, 09:01:19 PM »
Supply and Demand.!!   Free Country !

Greetings.
AL
San Diego/Tijuana
 

Offline emasters

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2017, 09:21:51 PM »
...but I hope it's not just an upgraded Tyros but a new concept and new attitude based on a respect for the creativity of its users.
Otherwise I'm out...

Similar perspective here.  If it's yet another Tyros-based product with YEM, I too am moving on.
 

Offline dihelson

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2017, 10:23:19 PM »

I really can´t believe some people is AGAINST technology. Against touch screen. Perhaps some oppinions are only based on that they are hard Yamaha supporters or lovers of the keyboards of japanese giant, regardless of technology.
Considering Korg Pa4X, for me, would be good to have both: Tyros and Pa4x. Each one has it´s own hits. Tyros is unbeatable in some sounds, and Pa4x on others and characteristics.
Time doesn´t matter. What matter most is how you live your little minutes. You´re unique amongst 7 billion people living on this planet. Live well !
 

Online Bachus

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2017, 12:11:31 AM »
Doing all that stuff from a touch screen is just awful.  Give me real knobs.

Joe H

Have you ever used the kaoss standalone? Its essentially a touchscreen..
Also the touchpad of the Roland V-synth works this way like a touchpad...
Its a proven concept..

On top if that, the pa4x is so freely programmable, that you can assign some of those touchscreen functions to the joystick, programmable switches, pedals, touchstrip, or even the 16 programmable slots for the sliders...

It could probably mostly you being uncomfortable with a new controller then the controller not being fit for its duty...  proof is in the fact that many pro EDM people are using the orriginal KAOSS with lots of success on stage...  like everything else, it takes time getting used to this...



However unlike most thinking this is an innovative step forward by Korg, i think its mostly a reaction by Korg on the PSR-S970 EDM features like arpeggiator and live knobs...  trying to make the pa4x competitive with the upcomming GENOS..


I expect another free content patch after the release of GENOS for this same reason... as a pa4x owner its incredible when you realise this all comes for free, i honestly have never seen Yamaha do anything like this. Getting free new toys is allways good...
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.  I am wayting for the next box of chocolate the Yamaha Genos.

Admin of : www.keyszone.boards.net
 

Online Jeff Hollande

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2017, 02:46:42 AM »
Hi Guys,

I am following this very interesting subject very closely.
I may hope Y are doing the same.  ;)

Since many years a Y update means : an Upgrade, a new model.

Apparently we can expect the Genos at the end of this year. 4 years after the T5.
Or ... are we all wrong ?
 
Most of us are surprised and frustrated we still do not know what the Genos will bring us.
Remember the introduction of the T1 in 2002. Y announced it 6 months before they launched it.

Now we hear nothing. It looks like their " hiding policy " is more important than the introduction of a complete new line. :'(

Are Korg taking advantage of the present Y attitude by offering their customers an important, very useful 4X update, free of charge ?
I personally believe Korg made a very good move and it is clear - reading all your comments - Korg are fighting to increase their sales. 

Jeff


 
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 04:12:55 AM by Jeff Hollande »
XGW - SONAR PLATINUM - CUBASE 8 WIN - MIXCRAFT8
 

Offline voodoo

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2017, 03:16:45 AM »
Wow, this is a sensation. After the PA4X has got even better with this free update, Yamaha has to be warned to show up with some real innovation this year.

But Yamaha managed to bring a us the Montage with touchscreen, a free OS update to 1.5 with some major new functions, a new interface concept based on the super knob and much more. So I hope the T5 follow up will keep on with this pace.

When I buyed the S950 and then the S970, the PA600/P900 did not convince me at all. They hat old style touch screen (more a press screen than an electrostatic touch screen) and an usage concept not as elegant as compared to the Yamahas. But Korg has moved on from that point and is showing us real innovation.

When the T5 successor will be a Tyros with some minor updates, being heavy and unhandy, and still without deep editing and configuration possibilities, a move to the PA4X 2.0 will be an attractive option.

Yamaha PSR-S970
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline tyrosrick

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2017, 03:40:46 AM »
I had a Motif XF6 a while back (sold it for a T5). The major complaint on the Montage was it didn't have a sequencer like the Motif and others. Yamaha said the Montage was for live play and didn't need it, to the dismay of many. We'll see what the Genos has to replace the T5 or upgrade it. As to the lips sealed by Yamaha as to when it will be launched: it's a basic marketing tactic to keep selling T5's rather than having people hold out on waiting for Genos with the possibility they might change their minds during the wait and op for a competitor like the Korg being espoused so much in this forum.
Current Gear: Tyros 5 76 key, and a whole lot of ambition.
Past Gear: Motif XF6, and a whole lot of frustration.
 

Online Jeff Hollande

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2017, 04:01:24 AM »
I wonder if people are still buying a new T5 unless the price is very, very attractive.

We see a lot of second hand T5 kbs are offered here in the Benelux ( Belgium / The Netherlands / Luxemburg ).
The prices of these T5  kbs are still high, too high maybe.

Are these sellers waiting for the Genos or ... will they order a Korg 4X instead ?  ;)

It is hard to believe people are pre-ordering a Genos, a kb they absolutely do not know yet.


Jeff
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 04:09:45 AM by Jeff Hollande »
XGW - SONAR PLATINUM - CUBASE 8 WIN - MIXCRAFT8
 

Offline Lloyd E

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2017, 04:58:58 AM »
Korg makes a great keyboard for the professional musician but the Yamaha is pointed at the home player and it is a great keyboard also. If you don't sing the mike functions are not at all important and I believe that is why Korg shines in this dep't.  I owned a Korg Pa4X for a year after selling my Yamaha Tyros 5-76, and I regreted it .  I bought another Tyros 5-76 and am most happy with it. I play stuff from the 30s, 40s and 50s and the Yamaha styles fit this
category to a T.  Yamaha for me and home players is simply perfect.  Lloyd
 
The following users thanked this post: tyrosrick

Offline tyrosrick

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2017, 05:03:48 AM »
I bought my T5 two months ago knowing the Genos might come out by late year. Why? I felt the T5 being out for several years already would have any bugs long ago removed by software/firmware updates; the T5, though high in price, would absolutely be lower than any new Genos coming out later; I wanted to play and hear the fabulous sounds that the T5 had based on all the Youtube demos. And yes, I had reviewed the Korg Pa476 with a price $1,000 less than T5, BUT it didn't consistently sound as good as the Yamaha. Granted, the Korg may have had easier user-friendly interfaces, however I was mostly interested in the ear candy and Yamaha had it....still does in my book.
Current Gear: Tyros 5 76 key, and a whole lot of ambition.
Past Gear: Motif XF6, and a whole lot of frustration.
 

Offline voodoo

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2017, 07:16:08 AM »
After having read this thread I had another look to the product description and demos of the Pa4X. But I still think that I do prefer the interface concept of my S970. In the Korg user forum I read the following comment:

Quote
When I saw that korg launched an major update and the file had 2,5GB I was very happy. After two years of waiting I hoped that korg will improve their UI.
As I said before, korg uses the old 320x240 resolution on a new display on pa4x ( 800x480 or something...)
After it booted in os 2.0, I saw a modified UI, but still the same crappy resolution.
Is there any hope? Or korg abandoned this issue...?

And that is what I think. The Pa4X has a modern touch screen, but still uses this old fashion style UI which reminds me to an old style DOS text screen.

Ok, the Pa4X has user assignable sliders and deep editable voices, but it is not what I call a beauty. ;)
Yamaha PSR-S970
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline Joe H

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2017, 08:04:58 AM »
I really can´t believe some people is AGAINST technology. Against touch screen. Perhaps some oppinions are only based on that they are hard Yamaha supporters or lovers of the keyboards of japanese giant, regardless of technology.
Considering Korg Pa4X, for me, would be good to have both: Tyros and Pa4x. Each one has it´s own hits. Tyros is unbeatable in some sounds, and Pa4x on others and characteristics.

Your opinion is based on your own limited point of view.  I'm not against technology... I use it everyday in a sensible way.  Watching that video made me laugh.  At one point the player was using both hands on screen to do what could be done better with a knob, slider or button.  And I am willing to bet he spent hours practicing what we saw in a few minutes in the demo. Kind of like watching one of the infomercials on TV on a Sunday afternoon.  You buy one of those food processors, take it out of the box and then find you can't do what the guy did on TV without investing hours of practice.

The Montage gives the option of touch screen or hardware control.  Hardware will always be superior to touch screens. Touch screens may be good for editing, but those encoder knobs on the Motif and Montage can't be beat. And the Super Knob was a long time coming, but is more useful with a foot pedal... some people are dazzled by all the gimmick technology that has very little practical value. 

Joe H
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 10:00:56 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline emasters

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2017, 09:17:39 AM »
The T5 screen was a good choice for its time (considering the development cycle is 3 to 4 years).  But for me, the iPhone and iPad have touch-screen interfaces.  It's what one now uses to work on a screen surface.  And clearly other vendor's tablets and phones (and keyboards) also use touch screen interfaces.  Having a state-of-the art keyboard without a touchscreen interface seems very limited and backward-facing.  I'm all for buttons, sliders and knobs (having them assignable, is even better).  But having a screen interface that doesn't support touch, is a non-starter here.  Just one opinion of many...
 

Offline mikf

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2017, 10:59:40 AM »
Touch screens are not a replacement for knobs on keyboard - they are a very useful supplement. Hardware works better than touch screens for some things, but the corollary is also true. Some people will use them more than others, but I am sure that when they are there everyone will use them to some degree, because even if you don't like then for controlling in real time, they excel for selecting. And we do a lot of selecting on an arranger, selecting voices, styles, tempos, and on the more sophisticated keyboards, even more, things like the amazing piano rooms on the Clavinova, with the ability to touch on a player and add or eliminate them to the band, touch on a piano to change from a Bosendorfer to a Yamaha, change the lid position and more. And with touch screens ultimately these amazing things will come to the portable keyboards. I can see a time when the touch screen will show a visual of all the instruments playing in the accompaniment  and they can be touched to switch them in and out just like the visual ensemble on the clavinova. There may be some who have less interest in these features because of how they use the keyboards and that's fine. But the majority are proven to love them, so they are a market requirement on future Yamaha arrangers. Hopefully sooner rather than later. 
Mike 

Offline Bill

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2017, 01:08:54 PM »
I know that this thread is now focussed on Touch Screens (or Not)  However they do have one major benefit, they eliminate the frustrating volumes step changes when using the the Tyros Sliders.  If they had motorised faders they would not need a Touch Screen, but as it is  they have only given us the old Rheostat ---  So let them roll out a Genos with a Touch Screen but keep the important buttons.

Bill
England

Tyros 5/76
 

Online Bachus

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2017, 01:46:10 PM »
Touch screens are not a replacement for knobs on keyboard - they are a very useful supplement.

This.... is the whole truth and nothing but the truth...
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.  I am wayting for the next box of chocolate the Yamaha Genos.

Admin of : www.keyszone.boards.net
 

Offline Joe H

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2017, 04:11:31 PM »
I know that this thread is now focused on Touch Screens (or Not)  However they do have one major benefit, they eliminate the frustrating volumes step changes when using the the Tyros Sliders.  If they had motorised faders they would not need a Touch Screen, but as it is  they have only given us the old Rheostat ---  So let them roll out a Genos with a Touch Screen but keep the important buttons.

Bill

Yamaha could have used Encoder code for the Tyros Faders and the S970 Live Control knobs and eliminated the data jump issue.  On the Motif Rack XS, there are 5 multi function data encoder knobs.  These are not your typical pots.  Press a knob (like a button) and get the current reading, turn the knob to set a new value (the original value is displayed and maintained in memory so you can always go back to it).

This is old stuff that Yamaha should have ported over to the Tyros and S9xx series with Live Control.  I was also told there was no way to update the OS to allow live control values to be saved in a registration. (hard for me to believe)

My assessment is that all this is sloppy programming on the part of Yamaha, but we may see better with the release of the next arranger.  I won't mind a touch screen as long as the knobs, faders and buttons don't go away.

We don't all work the same way. I'm a very tactile person so give me real (fully programmable) hardware controllers. I might even use a touch screen for certain limited functions.   But I program an awful lot of stuff that is implemented with a foot pedal and foot switch because my hands are busy playing the keys, turning Pitch Bend, Mod Wheel, turning the Live Control knobs as well as selecting registration buttons and Multi Pads.

 ;)

Joe H 
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 09:59:25 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 
The following users thanked this post: Bill

Online Jeff Hollande

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #38 on: July 03, 2017, 08:58:34 PM »
Time goes by. July 2017.
Maybe we are wasting our time ?

Yami do not say a word about the Genos yet !!! 👏
Even their dealers know nothing at all ... Very strange !!!

It looks like there is no T5 successor ???

Jeff
XGW - SONAR PLATINUM - CUBASE 8 WIN - MIXCRAFT8
 

Offline Joe H

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2017, 09:11:39 PM »
Have you ever used the kaoss standalone? Its essentially a touchscreen..
... Its a proven concept...

... It could probably mostly you being uncomfortable with a new controller then the controller not being fit for its duty...  proof is in the fact that many pro EDM people are using the original KAOSS with lots of success on stage...  like everything else, it takes time getting used to this...

... i honestly have never seen Yamaha do anything like this. Getting free new toys is always good...

Well I agree with at least one thing you say here.  KAOSS is just a toy.... one of those gimmick technologies I was alluding to.   Some pro EDM producers DO create their music on computers, but some are real musicians who actually play the music. Which is what I'm interested in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz996Onrg28

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuYJ65si6i0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8oQF_c-PMY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI-8JDpO2os

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR8LVZr2NXk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8nT0bsEIjs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-ur0YfzuU0


BTW... I don't see any touch screens in any of those performances / productions.

Joe H
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 09:59:37 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Online Bachus

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #40 on: July 03, 2017, 11:41:56 PM »
You dont see them, they dont use them... that does not say anything at all about touchscreen technollogy...

https://youtu.be/Y8F5BSiHY04

Making music allows people to choose the toys (figure of speech could also say tools) they want to use..  its just like someone choosing a piano, does that make the organ a bad choice...

If you dont want, need to use them, its your choice, but it does not make them a bad choice in my opinion. In the end its the musician and the performance that are remembered, and not the tools.
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.  I am wayting for the next box of chocolate the Yamaha Genos.

Admin of : www.keyszone.boards.net
 

Offline mikf

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #41 on: July 04, 2017, 01:43:07 AM »
Didn't see any touch screens, but then didn't see any arrangers either. And even if there were some they were not being used as arrangers normally are played. Certainly this kind of use is not going to drive or influence mainstream arranger design and marketing. There are other tools designed for this, and the guys on the videos were largely using them. 
 

Offline tyrosrick

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2017, 03:41:33 AM »
"Yami do not say a word about the Genos yet"
Okay, here's my ignorance: WHAT is Yami?
Current Gear: Tyros 5 76 key, and a whole lot of ambition.
Past Gear: Motif XF6, and a whole lot of frustration.
 

Offline EileenL

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #43 on: July 04, 2017, 06:58:29 AM »
As has been said before Yamaha will only announce the new keyboard a couple of weeks before its launch. Then the dealers will have there instruction on it.

Online Jeff Hollande

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #44 on: July 04, 2017, 07:39:10 AM »
Hi Eileen,
 
The new keyboards should leave Japan very soon to arrive here in October or November 2017.

Why don't they show any pictures and/or specs yet ?
Or is the final product not ready yet ? 8)

Up to now Yami never announced we can expect a new high end kb at the end of 2017.

Maybe the Genos will be available early 2018 and not earlier.

It looks like there is a serious problem ... that might be the real secret.  ;)

Jeff
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 07:41:33 AM by Jeff Hollande »
XGW - SONAR PLATINUM - CUBASE 8 WIN - MIXCRAFT8
 

Online Bachus

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #45 on: July 04, 2017, 09:05:08 AM »
Hi Eileen,
 
The new keyboards should leave Japan very soon to arrive here in October or November 2017.

Why don't they show any pictures and/or specs yet ?
Or is the final product not ready yet ? 8)

Up to now Yami never announced we can expect a new high end kb at the end of 2017.

Maybe the Genos will be available early 2018 and not earlier.

It looks like there is a serious problem ... that might be the real secret.  ;)

Jeff
nonsense..


I dont see yamaha doing anything different then with all previous Tyros releases...

Seems the new TOTL arranger might have been shown to some Yamaha insiders last month or so in London. I know someone went to a Yamaha meeting in London. No conformation however what was shown there...  except that it was close to sensational..
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.  I am wayting for the next box of chocolate the Yamaha Genos.

Admin of : www.keyszone.boards.net
 

Offline Joe H

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #46 on: July 04, 2017, 09:22:27 AM »
Didn't see any touch screens, but then didn't see any arrangers either. And even if there were some they were not being used as arrangers normally are played. Certainly this kind of use is not going to drive or influence mainstream arranger design and marketing. There are other tools designed for this, and the guys on the videos were largely using them.

My point of view is about playing music. Korg has a couple of KAOSS toys on the market, which actually discourage people from learning how to play music.  The guys in those Youtube videos are highly accomplished musicians (even if you aren't a fan of EDM) who are using old synths with lousy displays let alone no touch screens. 

To me, that Korg Pa4x v2 OS update demo is a joke.  Korg has implemented those new capabilities in the worst possible way. It's a grand example of the misuse of technology.  Some of us would like to see Motif capabilities added to the arranger, which is what Korg has done.  I'm all for that.  But how it is done is equally important.  I've already expressed my dissatisfaction with Yamaha's half-way (limited) programming for the Tyros faders and the PSR S9xx Live control knobs.

For me, having real-time controllers is about making more realistic and expressive music.  Yamaha has demonstrated the wonderful capabilities of MIDI through FM synthesis (DX7), AN synthesis (AN1x) , VL synthesis VL1, VL2, and VL70), SA2 synthesis (Tyros 3, 4, & 5), the highly sophisticated XS/XF arpeggios (Motif) and now the Super Knob (Montage) which is about 15 years behind the times.   

Yamaha doesn't always pay attention to us, but I hope they are paying attention to Korg... and does a better job of it.

Regards,
Joe H
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 11:54:12 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Mendel

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #47 on: July 04, 2017, 10:48:05 AM »
If Yamaha would see this topic all of our wishes would
be considered (and be fulfilled) and that would lead
to happy people  :)


Mendel

Offline emasters

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #48 on: July 04, 2017, 10:59:44 AM »
Hi Eileen,
 
The new keyboards should leave Japan very soon to arrive here in October or November 2017.

Why don't they show any pictures and/or specs yet ?


I suspect by delaying the details of the announcement, they are trying to avoid shutting down current sales of the product.  If potential customers know a new model is about to be released, they will wait (of course) -- the "Osborn Effect."  Not a big deal with software sales, since free upgrades can be offered within a given time window.  But with hardware, no upgrades available.  I suspect Yamaha would like to continue selling T5's for the next 6 months versus freezing-out the market waiting for the next-gen product.

Offline Joe H

Re: If Yamaha doesn't do this I'm converting to Korg
« Reply #49 on: July 04, 2017, 03:28:48 PM »
It's a little old... but this one's for you Mike.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FjIICgPshg

Another very accomplished musician.

 ;)

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html