Author Topic: Question about loading styles as ppf?  (Read 2156 times)

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Offline XeeniX

Question about loading styles as ppf?
« on: May 19, 2017, 08:19:56 AM »
Hi,

I was wondering about loading styles via YEM. You can pick the styles from a usb or from your hd without using YEM. Is there any advantage to load them via a ppf file and do they use valuable memory from the expansion card? I saw the Golden Oldies (3rd party) style pack on Musicsoft and noticed it is in two formats once bought (talking about the midi version).
1) as a PPF file and 2) as seperate normal style files.

I also saw when reading up ( part of the fun while waiting for my Tyros to arrive :) ) that you can add all sorts of files (PDF, txt, etc.)  and add those to a custom ppf file but what is the difference and why would one want to include a pdf into a ppf?

Perhaps it all become clear once I can actually use YEM but any info on forehand would be nice :)

thanks in advance,

Peter 8)

-----
There’s no need to be perfect to inspire others. Let people get inspired by how you deal with your imperfections.
-----
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2017, 08:27:12 AM »
Hi Peter.

I see no advantage to loading styles as a .ppf  in YEM as a "pack", which then requires you to add the style pack along with other packs to install in your keyboard.  There is actually a disadvantage to loading styles as a pack and that is that if you wish to edit one of those styles later on you will have to save the style as a User Style to your hard drive or USB drive.  Any files installed in a pack are subject to this rule.  You cannot save any edited pack files back to the expansion memory location.

Joe H
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 08:30:51 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 
The following users thanked this post: XeeniX

Offline XeeniX

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2017, 11:46:28 AM »
Thanks Joe for clearing that up,

No PPF for styles it is then :)

regards,

Peter

-----
There’s no need to be perfect to inspire others. Let people get inspired by how you deal with your imperfections.
-----
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2017, 05:20:26 PM »
Peter,

By the way... you can actually add any styles to any pack as "Content".   But as I have noted above, there is not much value in that since any edits once in the keyboard will require they become User Styles... saved back somewhere else.



Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 
The following users thanked this post: XeeniX

Offline voodoo

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2017, 05:03:43 AM »
On the S970, styles in a pack use space in user drive, which is very limited (13 MB only). So it does not bring advantages, but disadvantage.

Uli
Yamaha PSR-S970
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2017, 05:45:08 AM »
On Tyros 5 the user memory is not used to store packs or styles. They are stored in the expansion memory and hard drive.

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2017, 07:33:20 AM »
Just out of interest, if you don't include any styles, registrations or multi pads included in downloaded packs in your own PPI install pack, and then load it to a keyboard that uses YEM, how do you get access to such content from the downloaded pack or YEM? 

You can use Jørgen Sørensen's 'Styles in YEP/PPI Files' to extract the styles from a PPI, but this is not Yamaha's intended procedure.

So surely, without using the above program, the only way to get the styles etc. as individual files is to initially include them in a PPI and install them to the keyboard.  Then presumably you can copy them to another location (USB) if you want to keep and/or edit them.

Can you delete styles, regs and multi pads loaded on the keyboard via a PPI, from the keyboard without having to delete the voices too?


Regards

Ian
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 07:37:13 AM by tyrosaurus »
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2017, 07:57:15 AM »
Can you delete styles, regs and multi pads loaded on the keyboard via a PPI, from the keyboard without having to delete the voices too?

The answer is NO.  What we have to do is Edit/SAVE any content be it a style, Multi Pad, registration or song file... then it MUST be saved to the HD or USB drive.  ONce you have saved each file elsewhere, you could then delete the content from the pack before saving it as an Installation file.

I just bought a dance pack with 150 Multi Pad banks (600 Multi Pads).  I will want to edit many of them, so I will have to Edit and SAVE each one (one at a time) to my USB stick so I can edit and manipulate them as I wish in the future.

Maybe Jorgen could create a utility to extract Multi Pads from .ppi files like he did for styles.

Joe H
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 07:59:02 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2017, 08:53:54 AM »
Thanks for the quick reply Joe.

The answer is NO.  What we have to do is Edit/SAVE any content be it a style, Multi Pad, registration or song file... then it MUST be saved to the HD or USB drive.  ONce you have saved each file elsewhere, you could then delete the content from the pack before saving it as an Installation file.

Can anyone confirm if this also applies to the Tyros5, where they are installed to a folder on the hard drive I believe?  Can't you just Copy/Paste them from this folder?

Joe, I know that you are not a fan of the program 'MusicSoft Downloader', but have you tried it to see if it lists, and ideally can transfer  expansion styles and/or multi pads from the User drive once they have been installed?  It might be worth a look!


Regards

Ian
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2017, 11:55:36 AM »
Thanks for the quick reply Joe.

Can anyone confirm if this also applies to the Tyros5, where they are installed to a folder on the hard drive I believe?  Can't you just Copy/Paste them from this folder?



I don 't have any styles in packs for Tyros5 but I do have a registration supplied by Yamaha within the SA2 Trombone pack. It is accessed in the normal way by pressing the screen registration button then navigating in this case to the HD Expansion folder. Then look for the Trombone sub folder and select it. The reg. Loads into the reg. Buffer in Tyros and can be used in the normal way. But although there is an edit option it only gives options to rename or delete the individuals of the eight registrations within the file. There is no save or copy offered in the menu chain to permit saving the reg. file to a new location. You'd have to load the reg. setups to the keyboard and laboriously memorise them to a new bank, then save it in the usual way.
John
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2017, 12:22:15 PM »
Ian,

I installed the Down loader software and gave it a try.  You cannot transfer pack files from the User Drive to your computer.  When I tried this, I got a dialog stating the drive could not be accessed.

User files I placed there COULD be transferred, but files installed in a pack cannot.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2017, 12:26:53 PM »
Hi John,

Thanks for the reply.

If you connect the T5 hard disk to a computer via USB in 'USB Storage Mode', can you see the expansion folders on the T5 hard disk, and copy/paste the registration file (and presumably styles and multi pads if there were any) to the computer?


Regards

Ian
 

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2017, 12:30:45 PM »
Hi Joe,

I installed the Down loader software and gave it a try.  You cannot transfer pack files from the User Drive to your computer.  When I tried this, I got a dialog stating the drive could not be accessed.

This is useful information, although presumably disappointing for you regarding the multi pads in your new EDM pack.

Thanks for checking anyway.


Regards

Ian
 

Offline Jørgen

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2017, 12:34:22 PM »
...
I just bought a dance pack with 150 Multi Pad banks (600 Multi Pads).  I will want to edit many of them, so I will have to Edit and SAVE each one (one at a time) to my USB stick so I can edit and manipulate them as I wish in the future.

Maybe Jorgen could create a utility to extract Multi Pads from .ppi files like he did for styles.

Joe H

Maybe...! Will take a look shortly...

Jørgen
The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site at http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha
- since 1999
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2017, 12:52:27 PM »
Hi John,

Thanks for the reply.

If you connect the T5 hard disk to a computer via USB in 'USB Storage Mode', can you see the expansion folders on the T5 hard disk, and copy/paste the registration file (and presumably styles and multi pads if there were any) to the computer?
Regards
Ian

Hi Ian,
Good point :)
The expansion  and subfolders are visible on the HD in Storage mode, as is the trombone registration which is copyable to the desk top. I also notice there is a midi file demo of the trombone which I wasn't previously aware of, (having got the original voice for Tyros 3 I believe).
It looks as if these files are on the HD after all rather than squirrelled away in the memory module which makes you wonder why the normal file handling menus aren't made available for them........
John


 

Offline Bill

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2017, 12:58:07 PM »
Hi All

The contents of the Expansion packs are Accessible using the free Yamaha MusicSoft Manager APP.

You CAN use all of the normal filing commands like Copy, Paste etc. It is a very useful little program which I use for transferring files around.

It is very easy to copy files (inc. Pads, Style, Registrations etc.)  from the Hard Drive "Expansion" folder.

Bill
England

Tyros 5/76
 

Offline Jørgen

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2017, 01:11:55 PM »
Maybe...! Will take a look shortly...

Jørgen

Looking for a pack containing MultiPads... for examination and testing...

Jørgen
The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site at http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha
- since 1999
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2017, 02:11:26 PM »
Jorgen,

Thank you for your interest.  If you cannot find an Installation Pack with Multi Pads, I will create one for you that contains both styles and Multi Pads.

Regards,
Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2017, 03:10:23 PM »
Yamaha goes to great lengths to make sure we cannot corrupt the keyboard OS.  I'm sure they take the same approach with the PSR arranger internal expansion memory.  Obviously if it is important to format the expansion memory every time we load a .ppi file.  then not allowing us to Delete files from the expansion memory makes sense, but you would think we could at least copy them, since we cannot save them back to the expansion memory once they are edited.

Having to select a Multi Pad file then open Multi Pad Creator, and SAVE 150 Multi Pad files... one at a time from Multi Pad Creator... will be time consuming.   :'(

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Jørgen

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2017, 09:57:38 PM »
Jorgen,

Thank you for your interest.  If you cannot find an Installation Pack with Multi Pads, I will create one for you that contains both styles and Multi Pads.

Regards,
Joe H

Hi Joe

Could you please create a file having 3 styles and 3 multi pads?

Makes it a lot easier for me with a small file having a known content.

Jørgen
The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site at http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha
- since 1999
 

Offline tyrosrick

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2017, 04:16:31 AM »
I see that you all talk about .ppi files, but my question is about .cpi files. When I loaded a Premium Pak into the YEM, it was a .cpf file that the YEM saved as a .cpi file. It then seamlessly loaded into my T5 and everything works okay. So, what is this .ppi file you refer to?
-thx
Current Gear: Tyros 5 76 key, and a whole lot of ambition.
Past Gear: Motif XF6, and a whole lot of frustration.
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2017, 04:34:16 AM »
PPF and PPI files are used in the 970 keyboards. Also PPF files are ones you make up yourself or third party packs. They can be added to or deleted from CPI files can not.

Offline tyrosrick

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2017, 04:43:59 AM »
Got it- thx Eileen.
Current Gear: Tyros 5 76 key, and a whole lot of ambition.
Past Gear: Motif XF6, and a whole lot of frustration.
 

Offline Joe H

Re: For Jorgen - Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2017, 07:48:27 AM »
Jorgen,

Attached is a .ppi file with just 3 styles and 3 Multi Pads.  I thought about making one with a couple of Voices included too, but the file size might get too big to post here.  Let me know if that would be useful.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 
The following users thanked this post: thomas750

Offline Jørgen

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2017, 10:59:23 PM »
Hi

Thanks for the file.

I have not any experience programming sampled voices... but anyway send me a file with a few voices to my mail address.
Guess you have it - otherwise find it at my site.

Jørgen
The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site at http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha
- since 1999
 

Offline XeeniX

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2017, 08:45:22 AM »
I'm not sure if it works teh same way for a 970 but I found out that when I install a pack (let's say the eurordance expansion pack) It will install the samples tot the memory flash card but all other stuff like pads, styles are more or less copied to the folder expansion on the Tyros disk. So what I do to prevent myself from RSI is to power down teh T5 after installetion of the entire pack. Then power it up again in disk mode and simply go to the HD with a file manager or exen explorer and cut or perhaps for safety reasons copy  and paste all styles and pads and rgt's included to a separate folder that I create. After that those styles and pads will still work if i'm notmistaken even if they don;t exist in teh expansion folder anymore. They don't have the copy protection due to yem installation anymore either.

As said not sure if that would work for a 970 or other s series since they probably don't have disk mode. They coudl however use the musicsoft downloader to (slower ofcourse) do more or less the same I think. It would/cold save some valuable space as well on that psr-s user area perhaps :)

Could be I overlooked someone else already mentioning this in that case sorry, but my screen reader seems to be on a holiday haha or melted with these temperatures overhere. :p

regards,

Peter

-----
There’s no need to be perfect to inspire others. Let people get inspired by how you deal with your imperfections.
-----
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2017, 09:51:30 AM »
Peter,

When we install expansion packs in the PSR S970, the Voices reside in the 512MB memory area, the pack styles, Multi Pads, song files and registration files reside in the dedicated 13MB User Memory.  There is a third and separate 160MB block of memory dedicated to Audio Style Packs.

I assume we will see this kind of memory arrangement with the next Tyros 5 replacement.  Probably no more hard drive.  Considering that the Montage has 10 GB of internal memory, I think we will see at least 2GB to 4GB or more of expansion memory on the next flagship arranger.

Hopefully, Yamaha will fix the problem of allowing us to COPY files from the User Drive directly rather than have to EDIT and then SAVE to an external USB drive.

Joe H
« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 09:52:40 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Bill

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2017, 12:39:17 PM »
Hopefully, Yamaha will fix the problem of allowing us to COPY files from the User Drive directly rather than have to EDIT and then SAVE to an external USB drive.

Hi Joe

Did you not see my earlier post - You CAN copy files and paste them back again using the Yamaha "MusicSoft Manager" APP.

Bill
England

Tyros 5/76
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Question about loading styles as ppf?
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2017, 04:19:23 PM »
Bill,

I guess you didn't see MY earlier post. No... that is not true with the PSR arrangers.  I tried it.  It doesn't work, the down loader software issues a dialog stating that the Expansion Memory cannot be accessed.  I have a few files on the 13MB User Drive that COULD be moved. My files are outside the Expansion Folder and and this is different than the files inside the Expansion Folder stored on internal 512MB Expansion memory.

Regards,
Joe H

Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html