Author Topic: What does a player really need in an arranger from my point of view  (Read 3224 times)

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Online gerard

Here is a list of keyboards I have played through the years:
Hammond B-3
Lowery MX-1
Technics (Don't remember model number)
Wersi Saturn
Ketron Audya 5
Wersi Pagasus Wing
Korg PA4X
vArranger2 with Ketron SD-1000
Yamaha Tyros 4
Yamaha Tyros 5-76
Yamaha PSR S970 with Nektar LX 88

The keyboards I have played have changed but the music I play and sing have not.
I play and sing over 400 songs.
Some 40's, 50's, and Rock, but mostly Country.
So my choice of styles and voices are based around country music.
I need a keyboard that will give me those styles and voices.
Many of my styles are song specific for the intro and variation parts.
Others on here create song specific styles too.
The PSR S970 gives "ME" what I need.
The ability to play the keyboard and have it respond to the music I play and sing.
Country music voices are primarily acoustic and electric guitars, piano, electric piano, fiddle, organ and sax.
The only downside is that it is 61 keys.
I use a Nektar LX 88 midi controller to get the 88 keys I need, and semi weighted action too.
It has ligher action than the M-Audio 88 or any other 88 key controller.
I never got used to hammer action keyboards. Starting with th B-3, it spoiled me. lol

I do not need Ensemble or any other the other niceties that are on the Tyros 5.
I just need something to play country music primarily.
And the PSR S970 is about $3000 USD lower than the Tyros 5!

So, if you are considering an arranger keyboard, get one based on what you need.
If a keyboard has a nice feature and you never use it, why pay for it.

These are just my thoughts and I thought I would share them with you.
Everyone has their own idea as to what they need, but is what you think you need, what you will end up using?

Gerard

Online Joe H

Re: What does a player really need in an arranger from my point of view
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2017, 12:42:26 PM »
gerard,

I agree with just about everything you state but this...   "If a keyboard has a nice feature and you never use it, why pay for it".

The answer to this is any manufacturer can only make a profit by selling 1 or 2 models.  So we all get some functions that we don't need or use, but it's the only way Yamaha or any other company can make a profit, particularly on higher priced keyboards.

Regards,
Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: What does a player really need in an arranger from my point of view
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2017, 01:54:57 PM »
One thing about paying for features you don't use-- you can't always be certain that you won't eventually decide to use them, so it can be nice to have additional features to "grow into."

Of course, if you've been playing for many years, and have experience with many different brands and models of keyboards, it's safe to say that you've already figured out which features you actually want to use! ;)
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443
 

Online gerard

Re: What does a player really need in an arranger from my point of view
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2017, 02:16:22 PM »
Yes Michael, I can say been there done that.
Each arranger has its own features and is just a matter of figuring out which ones you need to play the songs you normally play.

Joe H, I agree, there are only a few models but, there is the E series, the S series and the Tyros series.
I found the S970 to fit the best for me.

I am not trying to show one arranger is better than another, only want to show that sometimes you don't need the best to do the job.

By the way, the Lowery MX-1 retailed for $10,000 when it came out! LOL
 

Offline mikf

Gerard - Your points are valid from a logical point of view, but for most people on the forum the keyboard is a hobby, and when it is your hobby logic goes out the window. People will typically want the best available that they can afford, even if it well exceeds their needs - and why not. Its why we work and save. Just look in any hack golfers bag (including mine) and you will see the truth of that!
Mike 

Offline pmedina

Hi Gerard, nice analysis, specially for people who are looking to buy an arranger, or changing the one they own now. This is not my case.
 

Offline Keyboardist

Most people do not use what is truly capable of what the keyboards can do.
Gerard nice point which doesn't come up all that much.
Its nice to think we have the instrument capable even if we don't use all the features in case we do get the erge and then; Ggees's the next one comes out and we want that one.
I like the analogy of the golf clubs as some are guilty of trying to by a better game perhaps a new driver will give me that 300 plus yards  :) or new irons will lower my score to the low 70's  :)
The Tyros 5 is like having a Ferrari to some ;D  but you only drive it at 40MPH speed but you know it can better 100 plus plus easily.
If you can afford the premium stuff and makes you happy people get it.
Life's too short;enjoy play away, but be honest to yourself and the fact that will I ever use all of what this new keyboard can do;probably not but Im happy with it regardless.
Craig

Arranger Workstations
My Performer Page
 

Online gerard

Gerard - Your points are valid from a logical point of view, but for most people on the forum the keyboard is a hobby, and when it is your hobby logic goes out the window. People will typically want the best available that they can afford, even if it well exceeds their needs - and why not. Its why we work and save. Just look in any hack golfers bag (including mine) and you will see the truth of that!
Mike
Yes Mike, you are right that, most on this forum the keyboard is a hobby.
You may have a champagne taste (Tyros 5) and a beer budget ( PSR S970)
I am trying to appeal to those who want good sound with a beer budget.
Bottom line, everybody's needs are different and you don't have to spend more than you need to to be happy.
But, if you got the money, go for it! LOL
 

Offline MBedesem

I started with one of the toy PSRs which was good enough to get me to purchase a PSR-330, and then on thru other PSRs to the Tyros 5.

What Yamaha excels in are the sounds! The more expensive instruments have more it is true, but the models below it also benefit from the improvement in samples and style/pads.

Unless you need a specific feature of a more expensive instrument, basing your choice on how it sounds to you is not a faulty criteria.

Regards,

Michael



« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 05:33:29 PM by MBedesem »
Michael P. Bedesem
mpb@vermontel.net
http://psrtutorial.com/MB/bedesem.html
Tyros 5
 

Offline voodoo

I do not need Ensemble or any other the other niceties that are on the Tyros 5.
I just need something to play country music primarily.
And the PSR S970 is about $3000 USD lower than the Tyros 5!

Hi Gerard,

I totally agree. Even though I can afford the T5, I have chosen the S970, since it offers all I need. And it is small, transportable, and has fine on board speakers that work very well for choir rehearsal or small church gigs.

But as always, the less expensive models have some limitations. In this case I would wish a better keybed and better B3 organ sounds (with Leslie with real speed change and overdrive) which are not possible on the S970 because it offers only one DSP for user voices.

Uli
Yamaha PSR-S970 (sold)
Yamaha Genos (ordered)
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline EileenL

Re: What does a player really need in an arranger from my point of view
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2017, 02:30:30 AM »
Different people have different needs so having a lot of features on a keyboard will cater for most. There are times when I have used the ensemble to get certain effects and it works well but would not use it all the time.
Organ world is very good with lots of scope for those who like editing. I have Tyros 5 and 970. What I miss on my 970 is a hard drive and the ability to split the keyboard three ways. Also miss that third voice.
  At the end of the day we choose what suits us and most are happy with there choice.

Re: What does a player really need in an arranger from my point of view
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2017, 07:39:35 AM »
My Dad had taught me a kid to buy the test tools of my trade I could afford.   If I gigged out a lot..  I don't think I'd want to move my T5 around a lot.. 

I research a kbd/product..  See that it has what I need, then look at other features..   I might want to use that in 1 year..

I've always had 'tecnonitus'..  (a serious need for the newest and best instrument)..  I've had modify that now, that i don't generate a lot of $$$$.  What I have done, is pull out the manuals for equipment and familiarize and learn any features I may have overlooked..  Learning them is rewarding, and useful.. 

At one point I played in bars/clubs..  After too many people used my kbd has a table, and spilled drinks into it..  I went out and bought something cheap enough that did the job, and wouldn't break the bank, if it broke, or got stolen..

Yes there is absolutely no point in buying features you don't need.   The situation is up to each musician and the type of musical work he does..
 

Offline andyg

Re: What does a player really need in an arranger from my point of view
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2017, 07:02:34 AM »
I think most home players will use maybe 10-20% of what's on the keyboard in total. But, each player will use a different 10-20%. Consider the player who positively hates country music. They may well end up with the PSR-S970 for the kind of music they like, and never touch that Country style button - ever!

The S class have always represented great value. I teach higher end students on a T5, but most own an S class from the S900 through to the S970. For my teaching in schools, the S class beats the Tyros hands down. 1) Take out of bag, 2) place on stand, 3) plug in and switch on. I've got that down to less than 2 minutes!

Back to percentages to finish. I've had the pleasure of taking several students right up to Diploma standard, and even those students won't use anything near half of what's on offer in total. They'll use more features than the beginners and mid-level players, but still less than half of each section.
It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 

Online gerard

Re: What does a player really need in an arranger from my point of view
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2017, 08:13:36 AM »
Hi Bachus,
If a tyros 88 key was lighter and had built in speakers, then I would consider it.
My PSR S970 works very nice with the Nektar LX88, and the both together are still lighter than the Tyros 5-76!
For church, I only use the s970.
For gigs, I bring the 88 key also.

Gerard

Offline Paula

Re: What does a player really need in an arranger from my point of view
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2017, 04:08:48 PM »
Different people have different needs so having a lot of features on a keyboard will cater for most. There are times when I have used the ensemble to get certain effects and it works well but would not use it all the time.
Organ world is very good with lots of scope for those who like editing. I have Tyros 5 and 970. What I miss on my 970 is a hard drive and the ability to split the keyboard three ways. Also miss that third voice.
  At the end of the day we choose what suits us and most are happy with there choice.
thanks Eileen
 you answered a question splitting the 970 three ways..I miss that  as well :) and the pops and doo waps etc on the pads I use them a lot
    Paula
You Tube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1xEYzY5g_0Nd5G9TkMY6mA/videos
Tyros 4 and Bose L1 Mod 2 w/tonematch
PSR S970
 

Online Toril S

Re: What does a player really need in an arranger from my point of view
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2017, 03:46:07 PM »
Hi Gerard! I have had only three keyboards; a PSR-47, a PSR 2100, and six days ago I got my PSR S970. Since all instruments have their special sounds and features, we should actually keep them all  :) Some people do, but I guess that is inconvenient for most people. Since I only have three, I can keep them. I intend to make some music on that fantastic PSR-47 soon, it is full of the 80s sounds, and has many cool features. My S970 has a lot of horsepower that i haven't learned to use yet, but it is good to think they are there, and that I eventually will make good use of them. And, yes, hobbies have a tendency to be expensive. I don't dear to even think the word "collect" or else I will go on getting some other cool old keyboards that I fancy. I don't have space for that! With 1000 watches and clocks in the apartment (also a hobby), books and videos, and of course the before mentioned keyboards, a piano, an accordion and some other stuff, it is not so much room left for me and my bandmates, the retrievers Kalinka and Fryd :)
Toril S
 

Online gerard

Re: What does a player really need in an arranger from my point of view
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2017, 03:17:28 PM »
Kalinka,
You might want to look at the legacy sounds that are in the S970.
The legacy sounds might have the voices that are in your PSR-47 and PSR2100.
Many players overlook that these sounds are available.
Gerard
 

Online Toril S

Re: What does a player really need in an arranger from my point of view
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2017, 02:22:37 AM »
Hi Gerard. I will do that! :)
Toril S
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: What does a player really need in an arranger from my point of view
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2017, 03:52:55 PM »
Never overlook those legacy voices! It's where you will find the best growl sax in the world.

Good luck,

Gary  8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Online Toril S

Re: What does a player really need in an arranger from my point of view
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2017, 07:10:04 AM »
Oh, yes!
Toril S
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: What does a player really need in an arranger from my point of view
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2017, 05:05:59 PM »
Gerard, I have performed professionally since 1958 and in all those years I never needed any more than 61 keys. I have equally as many keyboards as you, and probably a few more brands, but the number of keys was never an issue. In my case, my vocals were my right hand, though I did a lot of instrumental interludes, leads and fills. The number of keys had no bearing on this.

What a player/mucian/enterainer really needs is an arranger keyboard with great sounds and styles, and the ability to add 3rd party styles that can easily be linked to with either a song list, registrations or a music finder directory. He or she needs to be able to easily navigate through the operating system and make changes on the fly while standing in front of an audience, while at the same time, not lose eye contact with the audience. He or she needs to be able to seamlessly go from one song to another with less than two seconds of dead time between songs so as not to lose the folks on the dance floor.

All of those features have been available on most arranger keyboards since Yamaha came out with the PSR-2000 so many years ago. However, in order to do all those things I listed above, you must be organized and spend a fair amount of time in the studio setting up the keyboard's features one song at a time. This isn't something you can do in a day, a week, and often not in a month. I have spend endless months doing just this, and over the years, have managed to accomplish those goals. It requires more work than most entertainers are willing to put forth, but for those that do, the end results are an outstanding performance and more jobs than they can handle.

The same is true for their equipment setup. I am frequently amazed at how long some entertainers take to set up their gear, and when they are finished, they have wires that resemble a pot of spaghetti dumped on the floor. If something goes awry, they often have no idea how to solve the problems and they rarely have spares or backup equipment at their fingertips when they need it most.

Now that health issues have forced my retirement at age 76 I no longer have to worry about these things and I no longer have backups. Ironically, in all the years I performed with backups just a few steps away in my van, I never had to use them - guess I was lucky in that I chose Yamaha gear - it never, ever failed.

Good luck,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline mark fernando

Re: What does a player really need in an arranger from my point of view
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2017, 10:06:06 AM »
Hi,
I use my keyboard mostly as a hobby, for learning new things and play at parties among friends. For this purpose Yamaha Psr S950/970 serious provides facilities more than needed and it is easy to carry out and set up in other places. I noticed that Genos made smaller than Tyros line. This is something Yamaha did good considering other competitors. With new technology everything could be made compact, light and easy to carry.

Thanks


mark     

Online Toril S

Re: What does a player really need in an arranger from my point of view
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2017, 02:36:29 PM »
I agree, Mark! I have recently bought an S970. Although Tyros/Genos have more features, they are heavy and combersome, need outside speakers and are expensive as well. A keyboard must be light, easy to operate and have built in speakers. If needed, you can always hook them up to an outside speaker system. I am so satisfied with my choice :)
Toril S
 

Offline Paula

Re: What does a player really need in an arranger from my point of view
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2017, 03:41:47 PM »
 :) :)
 I agree Gerard.
 there are features on the Tyros key boards I like such as the scat voices  and 3 split that I cant do with my 970  and I have both T4 and 970 , I have heard many music posts on this forum and in my opinion the psr  3000..psr 910 950 970 and all tyros models all sound good I have heard music posts  from the psr3000 that sound just as good as from a tyros 5 and now the Genos ya maybe the Genos is the latest and for those who need one they should buy one maybe the Genos will sound a we bit better? but will the general audience notice a difference? I payed at the time way more for the T4 then the 970 and  the 970 is lacking a few features that I like but I can work around that so I think all the Yamaha key boards sound similar so I am keeping what I have unless they crash then I will buy a Genos,
  I do not notice  any difference in the Demos of the Genos if using all the same features that were on the Tyros to me it is then still a tyros I would like to hear and see something new
            Paula
You Tube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1xEYzY5g_0Nd5G9TkMY6mA/videos
Tyros 4 and Bose L1 Mod 2 w/tonematch
PSR S970
 

Offline mikf

Re: What does a player really need in an arranger from my point of view
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2017, 05:45:26 PM »
Like all technology that has been around for a little while, there is a definite case of diminishing returns with the latest arrangers. They are very good, and definitely getting better, but they have been pretty good for quite a long time now, genuine musical instruments. Although we all like to have the latest and greatest its certain that for the listener the quality of the performer will always make  a much bigger difference than whether they have a PSR 3k from 12 years ago or the GENOS.  ;D

Mike

Offline Keyboardist

Re: What does a player really need in an arranger from my point of view
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2017, 11:10:39 AM »
Seems when something new comes out like the Geno's, older stuff like the Tyros 5 suddenly becomes already back shelf  :(  I remember people couldn't wait to get their hands on a Tyros 5 and now its the Geno's. Next go round the Geno's will be in the backseat.
Yamaha is sure making good money from all the sales and re sales  :-\
Nothing wrong with the older stuff its just not the latest and greatest !!!

Craig
« Last Edit: October 29, 2017, 11:11:58 AM by Keyboardist »
Arranger Workstations
My Performer Page
 

Offline vbdx66

Re: What does a player really need in an arranger from my point of view
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2017, 08:17:44 AM »
Hi Craig,

I cannot agree more with you. It is hard to believe that the Tyros 5, which was a dream come true and the best keyboard ever just three years ago, would suddenly be old news and loose all its value.

Actually, for those who dont care about getting the latest and greatest thing around, it could be a nice move to buy a new Tyros 5 with a full warranty at a bargain price, since all dealers will try to get rid of the few pieces they still have in order to make room to the new Genos.

Best Regards,

Vinciane.
Past keyboards: PSR E313, PSR E413, PSR E433, PSR S550, DGX 640, upright piano.
Now: DGX 650
 

Offline Keyboardist

Re: What does a player really need in an arranger from my point of view
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2017, 09:43:14 AM »
Hi Vinciane,
It is hard to believe how time fly's so fast these days as the Tyros 5 was the dream keyboard for many and I remember reading many posts to the effect. I imagine that when the smoke clears a little with Geno's that a Tyros 5 with a manufacture warranty wouldn't be such a bad deal providing you don't get the Geno's bug in the mean time.

Craig
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 10:08:18 AM by Keyboardist »
Arranger Workstations
My Performer Page
 

Offline Bachus

Re: What does a player really need in an arranger from my point of view
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2017, 04:32:19 AM »
I think what a player really needs in an arranger is different for every player

I would like to see a stagepiano/synth workstation with added high end arranger features..
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline Lofty(dave)

Re: What does a player really need in an arranger from my point of view
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2017, 12:22:41 PM »

 with me being a bit thick where is the legacy on the s970   you keep talking about Lofty (dave)
 

Online gerard

Re: What does a player really need in an arranger from my point of view
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2017, 01:45:09 PM »
In Voices, press the UP button, and LEGACY is on page 2.

Gerard