Author Topic: Has anyone really cracked midi editing on the Tyros  (Read 453 times)

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Offline ugawoga

Has anyone really cracked midi editing on the Tyros
« on: April 20, 2017, 02:24:05 PM »
Hi

I get so frustrated after making a song on the Tyros sequencer and then put it Into Sonar Platinum for minor editing.
Maybe a few note lengths or volumes and not forgetting the little boo boo's.
I did a song all on Track 1  and track 2 for left hand with program changes along the way with registrations.
The Style is on It's respective channels.
Ok ,transfer to Sonar and the Intro I played was a semitone down for some reason and the sound was awfullly out of tune.
As soon as I went to registration 2 all played well and all the other changes played also well to the end.This Is always the same pattern when editing In Sonar .Sometimes It goes alright all the way through,but 6 times out of 10 nah!! :-[
I tried moving the Intro part I played up a semitone to beat this problem .Yes, It worked,but volumes started changing ,some parts louder than others when changing registration.Weird!! ::)
Sonar now supposed to have a super midi editing process with the latest update.For me it Is frustrating rubbish.
So now I have to go back to square one probably and multi-track the song on different channels which I think Is a pain as I like to play a song through and do minor edits.
The more you change things when editing ,the more goes wrong, like something inside the program hates you!!! >:(
You cannot do proper Tyros eding In Mixcraft as It does not deal with Sys Ex and you have to have your sound box on which gives different sound to what you played.More tinky tonky. :o

Now Mike Bedeseems Mixmaster plays Tyros midi as It should be,but It lacks a Piano Roll and I am not good at all those numbers.

It does seem that some programs do one good thing and not another and yet I cannot find a PROGRAM THAT THE TYROS FEELS COMFORTABLE WITH. :-[

Has anyone been  sucessful in having a stable editor for the Tyros 5 with a great piano Roll???

I always have to find workarounds to finish editing songs and It can be pulling out hair stuff!! ::)



All the Best
john :)

All the Best
John :P
 

Offline maartenb

Re: Has anyone really cracked midi editing on the Tyros
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2017, 01:16:32 AM »
Editing Tyros MIDI files in a DAW is not that simple, but can certainly be done (see my YouTube channel).

You have to make sure that your DAW can handle SysEx data. The Tyros uses this for effects, chords, variations and resetting the sound to a default setting. The SysEx data is "all over the place" in the MIDI file.

I use REAPER as my DAW because of it's stability and it's running with ease on older hardware. When I import a song from the Tyros into REAPER, it asks me to have all notes on a single track or on multiple tracks. When I choose the second option, I loose all SysEx data!

If the same happens with Sonar, it might explain why your Tyros file sound bad when played from Sonar.


Maarten
 

Offline Dusan

Re: Has anyone really cracked midi editing on the Tyros
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2017, 01:39:35 AM »
John,

I can anderstand your frustration.I allso use Sonar to edit files,but not for
Midi files except Style files with Mix maser.In that case Sonar work perfectly.
Try Yamaha XG Works.You can fined on Internet...

Maarten,

do you use Instrument definition for T5 on your Reaper? If you do,
where I can fined that file?

Regards

« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 01:43:40 AM by Dusan »
Dušan


If you want to fly,you must first walk....
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Has anyone really cracked midi editing on the Tyros
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2017, 05:33:42 AM »
Hi Marten

With Sonar a box comes up and ask whether you want Sys Ex and I press yes.
In Sonar  tyros right hand and left hand use track 1 and 2.
The styles use 9,10,11,12 13,14

All other tracks for bells and whistles.
Sometimes all goes fine and others not so good.I can eventually get through ,but with a lot of *(*(&^*words.
I have just wrote back to Mike Bedeseem and explained my plight.
Mikes Mixmaster plays midi songs from the TyRos 100%,
I would like to see Mixmaster with a good Piano roll editor and then there would be no competition.

Midiworks and One Man band have poor piano rolls I my opinion.Very basic.
I do not know how cubase handles Tyros midi .Mixcraft,no Sys Ex.


All the best
John :)
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Has anyone really cracked midi editing on the Tyros
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2017, 05:39:35 AM »
Hi Dusan

yes I use the definition file 1.07 In Sonar.
What gets me Is not enough people complain about midi editing In these Pro daws or we must be In the minority.
I would of thought yamaha would have made a decent editing software program for it's users as the small screen bigged up  is much better on a computer.
If we could somehow get the Tyros Sys Ex talking to a Sys Ex daw with a stable connection,the sooner the better .

Mixmaster Is very close.even better If you can work out all those fancy numbers!!! :o


All the best
John 8)
 

Offline markstyles

Re: Has anyone really cracked midi editing on the Tyros
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2017, 12:17:34 PM »
I use Logic Pro with Tyros..  no midi ending problems..  By this point, I would assume ALL Daws are quite capable in  MIDI editing..  Perhaps you are missing a fine point some where.

I use a short control sequence, I put on each Tyros track in Logic to set up the sounds for each Tyros track..

picture of control sequence I insert at the beginning of each Logic track - https://app.box.com/s/d4096mq0gb1uw4epp6dc

MIDI control sequence you could import into your DAW for each channel - https://app.box.com/s/z3ek8mcbkh9wekrd4eza

Refer to Tyros DATA manual (which you download from Yamaha site).. you can add more CC events to suit your needs.

Bear in mind some hardware/software uses CC 0 - 127 and others CC 1 - 128 for Programs ONLY..  you must compensate for this..  Some DAWS have a switch for it, others you

must manually do.. For me with Logic Pro, I have to make the program # one higher to get the proper sound.

I end up having Logic play song and patch into Tyros Song channels,,

You might want to include a CC 127  (I think)  it is call reset..

also a pitchbend 0 at beginning of song..  If you stop your song in midi way,, and Tyros parts that were pitchbend, and not returned to 0 will continue  with pitch off..

Make sure individual tracks in Sonar are sending to proper song channels in Tyros..  Some DAW default to 'all channels', unless you change.. Then you just get a huge audio mess.
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Has anyone really cracked midi editing on the Tyros
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2017, 03:31:51 AM »
Hi Mark
It would take me some time to get my head around those technicalities.
I am starting delve a lot more,but It is understanding what you are saying here.
It Is not a five minute thing.Some of the things you are saying here makes sense to me and I know It is all In the numbers and need a little time for things to sink In.
My head is aching already :)
I wrote to Mike Bedeseem saying If only there was a piano roll with Mixmaster you would be home and dry without messing with anything.
Well Mark I will study what you are saying and thanks for your explaination.
What I do is record on the Tyros straight through using the registrations and a lot of practice and then do some minor adjustments.
This way you get or your lead on track one and left hand on track two. That maybe the problem as you put different sections on different tracks.
So I have been relying on program changes along a single route.
I think that Sonar cannot handle this method as Vst is great In Sonar.
But, I like the Tyros.(Looking forward to the Genos).You can play a song and play It,rather than cutting and pasting all day.But we cannot help our fingers sliding off a black key now and then, more now!! :o
Another strange thing when concentrating hard to get a song right is that you can drift for a nanosecond and all goes wrong. Also the perils of the red record button syndrome!! :-X :-\

All the best
John

Ps Does it make any difference to a piano roll if the snap feature Is off??? can things move If that Is off and does It lock the grid when you save and come back so nothing slides off a little.???
I always thought that the snap feature Is for keeping things tight to what you have set It to,but can notes still move away from the grid or does the grid move .
It always happens to me!! :( :o


All the best
John   My favourite saying when things go wrong  "Gone Forever"!!! ;D My other half say's she will put that on my gravestone or put me in a firework and say enjoy the ride"!! :o ;D
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 04:00:27 AM by ugawoga »
 

Offline maartenb

Re: Has anyone really cracked midi editing on the Tyros
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2017, 05:51:04 AM »
Maarten,

do you use Instrument definition for T5 on your Reaper?
No, I don't. I press Record in Reaper, press the sound I want to use, and stop the recording in Reaper. Now I have the data I need in Reaper to select the sound I need.


Maarten
 

Offline maartenb

Re: Has anyone really cracked midi editing on the Tyros
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2017, 05:52:48 AM »
Hi Marten

With Sonar a box comes up and ask whether you want Sys Ex and I press yes.

Sometimes all goes fine and others not so good.
That's weird. Maybe it's time to ditch Sonar and try something else?

Maarten