Author Topic: Need Tambourine in Rythmn  (Read 1510 times)

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Offline LArmatage

Need Tambourine in Rythmn
« on: April 05, 2017, 07:16:48 AM »
Hello from Canada;
    I'm working on an arrangement that I would like to add some Tambourine in the RHY 1  section. The only style I have found this is is "Finger Pickin' " Variation 4. It also has a heavy Bongo Drum added, and the bongo doesn't fit the arrangement I'm doing.

Does anyone know of a Style that has tambourine pretty much alone, or a Multipad with one?

I would guess that there's a way to edit the drums in a style, (and remove or tone down the bongos), but I have no idea how to do it.

Any assistance very much appreciated.


Offline jerryghr

Re: Need Tambourine in Rythmn
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2017, 08:52:39 AM »
"Shaker & Tamb"  multipad has the tambourine.



Offline LArmatage

Re: Need Tambourine in Rythmn
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2017, 02:47:36 PM »
Hi Jerry;
     Thanks....I  tried that one, but it's a very low volume, barely heard when I have a guitar multipad playing at a reasonable volume. I appreciate your giving me that heads up.

If anyone has any thoughts, I would like to get them.



Offline Roger Brenizer

Re: Need Tambourine in Rythmn
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2017, 02:56:51 PM »
Just modify the volume of the "Shaker & Tamb" multipad, Larry, if it's the one you wish to use.
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Offline LArmatage

Re: Need Tambourine in Rythmn
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2017, 03:49:30 AM »
Hi Roger;
    Thanks for the reply. As I mentioned to Jerry, I want  a guitar multipad playing along with the tambourine, (the guitar  is much 'louder' ),  and when I  set the guitar  to a reasonable level,  you can barely  hear the tambourine - it's certainly not as loud as I would like it. I need to set the level of the guitar MP, and then somehow increase the volume of the tambourine.
The song I'm doing  is "Dream Baby" by Roy Orbison. >>>

Other than the Multipad volume control, I don't know of  any way to increase the volume of the tambourine alone..... if you can help, very much appreciated.


Offline DrakeM

Re: Need Tambourine in Rythmn
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2017, 05:24:36 AM »
Hi Larry,

There is no tambourine used in that song. The drummer is riding a crash cymbal.

What style are you using at this time for the song?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2017, 05:33:52 AM by DrakeM »

Offline jwyvern

Re: Need Tambourine in Rythmn
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2017, 11:26:10 AM »
Hi Larry,
For drum kits, the Ty4 data list states the F3# note is assigned to "light" tambourine. I've tried it on Ty5 and as often happens it needs boosting in some way to make its presence felt. If you want to try it I'd suggest increasing the high EQ in Voice Set (eg. Frequency to 4.0 and plus 12Db!) otherwise not much jingle present. Then set Reverb to about 60 (to try to prolong the jingle), then choose by trial and error from the Compressor /Distortion/Delay Multi- DSP's until you get a reasonable boost. There are a few that might do the job, but my suggestions would be:
CMP+Dist+TDL or V-Dist S +TDL1. These are the shorthand names Ty5 gives to them. Make sure DSP and Variation buttons are on.
If desired you can increase the Attack in the Sound tab and the high freqs will sound less of a sudden hit and more of a shake.
If you do want a percussive hit sound with some lower frequency in it as in hitting the skin, the sample does not seem to provide that. You might be able improve the overall effect by layering with one of the other percussive sounds, although it may not be straightforward. Ideally IMO you would benefit from a better quality tambourine sample from somewhere else if available :)

Offline LArmatage

Re: Need Tambourine in Rythmn
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2017, 01:26:09 PM »
Hi John;
     Sometimes I'm just 'blown away' by the knowledge some Members have about these keyboards, and your post highlights this incredible "know-how". Thanks for your very detailed solution, which I will try step by step. I very much enjoy  learning more and more about this  wonderful instrument, and you - and others- are adding to my knowledge bank. Every Tyros owner has this great privilege because of members like you. Sincere Thanks.

Drake,  I'm using "Modern Pickin'", T @75, set at vol 102. When not singing, I use Bright Chorus (P2-G) guitar right hand for melody, (set at 100), and Choir  P5-D voices in the left (set at 63). On the final chorus before ending, I have Multipads P7, (1,2,3) and P14,(4).

Part of the problem in trying to do a decent version of this  song, ("Dream Baby"), as done on "Black & White Night". I agree that there's not any Tambourine on it, but I'm not quite happy with the "throbbing plunking" of the P7 multipad, and thought that some tambourine would help that situation.

Trying to 'sound' like Orbison, with the roughly 16 musicians he had for this video, with 1 person playing a keyboard is a daunting task, but this sounds pretty good.

BTW, I've looked at a lot of your very good work on youtube, and like it a lot. If you have any thoughts about this song, I would welcome hearing them. Thanks.


Offline tyrosaurus

Re: Need Tambourine in Rythmn
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2017, 04:01:02 PM »
Hi Larry,

You have already been offered a number of possible solutions to your problem, but if you still want to know how to alter the overall level of a specific multi pad in a bank then read on.

You seem to suggest that you are playing different pads with guitar and tambourine together,  which presumably means that you are aware of how to copy individual pads from one bank into another so I won't go into that.

The Multi Pad level control in the Balance window of the Main screen or the Mixing Console adjusts the overall level of all pads in that bank.

However, to adjust the relative levels of each pad in the bank, you need to edit the MIDI code of the individual pads in a bank.

You can do this on the keyboard by using Multi Pad Creator.

First load the bank containing the pad that you want to change, and open Multi Pad Creator.

Now select the pad (1 to 4) that you want to edit, and then Tab to EDIT.

The display that opens lists the MIDI events in the selected pad.

From here you can change the overall volume of that pad, or even edit notes on an individual basis if necessary.

To do this you need to find and move to the MIDI Controller event which determines the overall level (either Ctrl. #7 (Volume) or #11 (Expression)).  This is usually near the beginning of the list, but is some cases there may be further ones later in the file!

I have attached a screen dump of the T4 MultiPad Creator 'EDIT' display for the preset MP bank 'Shaker & Tamb', pad 3 as an example.

The original volume level of this as set by Yamaha is quite low (46), which when mixed with a style or other MP's is virtually inaudible, rendering it more or less useless in my opinion!  Who in Yamaha sets the preset levels for MPads, Styles, Voices etc.?  Do they have different hearing to the rest of the people on the planet?

However you can easily change the data value in the Volume controller event to increase the overall level of this pad. See the annotations in the attachment for instructions about  how to do this.

In this example, the overall level is set using the MIDI Controller #7 (Volume), but others may use MIDI Controller #11 (Expression) to achieve a similar effect. Higher data values for either of these events results in increased volume levels.

If setting  this level to the maximum (127) value still results in the pad being too quiet, then you need to increase the velocity value (in the same column) of each note (unless they are already at maximum of course)!  This is more of an effort and may be better done on a computer if there are a lot of notes in a pad.

So you may want to try adjusting the level of the existing pad containing the Tambourine, and if necessary lowering the overall of the MP that you are using containing the Guitar  in the same way to balance the two. They will than both increase or decrease  together when you use the MP level in the MAIN display Balance control or the Mixing Console.

As an alternative, it is actually pretty simple to record a Multi Pad with non chromatic sounds such as a Tambourine, or even to record it into Rhy1 of a style.  Of course with a style you would need to record each Intro, Main section, Fill, Break and Ending individually which is quite a bit more effort that just using a Multi Pad!


« Last Edit: April 06, 2017, 04:09:23 PM by tyrosaurus »

Offline DrakeM

Re: Need Tambourine in Rythmn
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2017, 08:41:27 PM »
Hi Larry,

I think you need to be looking for the style and/or parts in the "R&B" and "Jazz" styles.

I started with a style called "oldiesR&R" and its MAIN B. Then stuck in the BASS from a Jazz section style called "ElectricJazz" from the MAIN B section of that style, nails it to me pretty good. You will need to add stuff to it, to get the Girls voices into the style. I would think some Horns in place of their vocals. I did increase the RHY1 cymbal volumes and I changed one of guitar voices and its volume as well in the style.

This style will play along with the B&W version at tempo BPM 152.

I am attaching the style for you .. I have only messed with the MAIN B of the original style. Hope this gets you started. Start the song with INTRO 2, it sounded cool to me that way. And I think the BREAK that is in the style might be perfect too.

BTW .. I never use MultiPads, I have always found the correct pattern in one of the styles and pasted it into my custom song styles. I have enough buttons to push as it is without messing with those 4 buttons.


Offline Paula

Re: Need Tambourine in Rythmn
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2017, 02:42:04 AM »
 you want to alto the pad  follow Ian instructions works great something I use and do all the time pads are a wonderful add on to a song if used correct
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Offline LArmatage

Re: Need Tambourine in Rythmn
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2017, 02:41:13 PM »
Hi Ian;
     The first paragraph I wrote to John applies to you as well.... we are indeed lucky to have this kind of expertise and willingness to help.... thanks a lot.

Ian I was following  all of the steps   you laid out, but I got stumped here >> "To do this you need to find and move to the MIDI Controller event which determines the overall level (either Ctrl. #7 (Volume) or #11 (Expression)).  This is usually near the beginning of the list, but is some cases there may be further ones later in the file!".

I usually do some hunting for further information before I send a post, but in going to both the User Manual, and The Reference Manual indexes, there was no mention of Midi Controller. I also looked and looked, and I couldn't  find Ctrl # 7 or 11. I find that in anything I try, I have  a much better chance of success if I have a clear idea of just what it is I'm trying to do..... and I don't seem to have that here.
If you can summon up a little more patience, and a couple of clarifications, hopefully I 'll get there

Thanks Paula for the encouragement.... I'll keep plugging away.

Thanks Drake for the great work on the style. You mention many buttons to push; if you do find some Multipads you like, just save them to a Registration. With the style stopped, select a multipad, (or more), and they will be flashing. Now just save them to whatever registration button you want it in. When you are playing, and progress to that button, as soon as you play a left hand note or chord, the multipad(s) will automatically start to play, without any button-pushing while you're  playing.... easy to add another 'player in the band' to play along with Roy.... make that Drake. Thanks for the suggestions.


Offline tyrosaurus

Re: Need Tambourine in Rythmn
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2017, 04:20:23 PM »
Hi Larry,

The screen shot that I attached to my reply shows the MIDI event list for a Multi Pad.

If you look at it you will see that the highlighted row in the event list is the one containing the Controller that sets the volume in this particular pad.

Note that if you use a different pad, the position of this event in the list may be different, although it is usually still at time (M:B:T) 1:01:0000.

In this example Controller #7 (Channel Volume) has been used, although some MPs may use Controller #11 (Expression) to achieve this

In the event list it appears as event type: 'Ctrl' (first column to the right of the event time).

The next column to the right shows the controller number: (7).

Next is the data value: (46), and the rightmost column shows a description of the controller function (Volume).

Once you have found and moved to the correct row, and moved across to make the the data value column the focus of any changes (as shown in the screen shot), you can increase the data value using the upper #4 button (increases by 10 for each press), the upper #5 button (1 for each press), or the Data Wheel.  You can use the lower #4 or #5 buttons or the Data Wheel to lower the value.

You won't hear anything as you adjust the value, but you can check the effect of the change by pressing the relevant MP panel button to play the pad without leaving the screen, although when you stop it, you will need to find the Ctrl 7 event and move back to it if you want to adjust it further.