Author Topic: Weighted Keys  (Read 2016 times)

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Offline guitpic1

Weighted Keys
« on: March 27, 2017, 02:18:12 PM »
What if the next TOTL Yamaha arranger featured weighted keys? 

I have several performing friends(including my bother)that are used to weighted keys.  They do not like organ touch keys.

Those performers with weighted keys, keyboards, will haul drum machines and vocal harmonizers along with bass players and you name it, to a gig.

Yamaha took an elementary stab at an 88 key version with th DGX 660.

Thoughts?  This been discussed before?
« Last Edit: March 27, 2017, 02:19:31 PM by guitpic1 »
guitpic1

PA 4X, S970, DGX650, JBL Eon One, SSV.3
 

Offline maartenb

Re: Weighted Keys
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2017, 11:47:29 PM »
It could be possible, but I doubt it.

For a piano or mainly piano-like instrument weighted keys make sense. Example: Clavinova series.

An arranger on the other hand is meant to play a variety of instruments, like organ, flutes, brass, guitar, etc. Some of these instruments use quick note changes, which is easier to do on "organ" keys.

The Tyros keys are a tiny bit weighted and better than the PSR-S series, although I was pleasantly surprised how expressive the PSR-S970 keys are.

And last but not least, Martin Harris was originally an organ player, so I think he will stick to synthesizer keys.


Maarten

Offline EileenL

Re: Weighted Keys
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2017, 04:53:18 AM »
Tyros Keys always have been semi weighted and for a keyboard played who uses sounds other than piano do not feel right anyway. As I always say if you are a Pianist buy a Piano.
   Would hate weighted keys and would not buy a new product if it had them.

Offline andyg

Re: Weighted Keys
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2017, 03:10:17 PM »
100% in agreement. Playing that gentle oboe solo, for example, just feels totally unnatural on a weighted keyboard. Semi or slightly weighted is the way to go.

It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: Weighted Keys
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2017, 07:27:29 AM »
When you play professionally, often 3 to 4 hours a day, 7 days a week, weighted keys are the last thing you want on a keyboard. I performed using a Clavinova for 4 hours and at the end of the night, my hands were so cramped that I had to go home and soak them in hot water for several hours to alleve the pain. If the next arranger had weighted keys, I would not purchase it, regardless of how good it sounded.

All the best,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline mrplum

Re: Weighted Keys
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2017, 07:44:34 AM »
 All very  true .. but it also strongly depends on what you're used to ..
cvp605, tyros5-76, kurzweil
 

Offline DrakeM

Re: Weighted Keys
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2017, 10:51:44 AM »
The key action on a weight piano key to TOOOOOOOOOOO SLOW. PSR & Tyros are keyboards not pianos ... there are not 88 keys on them ... because we don't need them on an ARRANGER.

We have already kicked this subject around before. ::)

Regards
Drake

Offline mrplum

Re: Weighted Keys
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2017, 11:52:32 AM »
Very well ..
PSR & Tyros are keyboards .. CVPs are pianos ...
to each his own..
cvp605, tyros5-76, kurzweil
 

Online Bachus

Re: Weighted Keys
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2017, 12:11:53 PM »
It could be possible, but I doubt it.

For a piano or mainly piano-like instrument weighted keys make sense. Example: Clavinova series.

An arranger on the other hand is meant to play a variety of instruments, like organ, flutes, brass, guitar, etc. Some of these instruments use quick note changes, which is easier to do on "organ" keys.

The Tyros keys are a tiny bit weighted and better than the PSR-S series, although I was pleasantly surprised how expressive the PSR-S970 keys are.

And last but not least, Martin Harris was originally an organ player, so I think he will stick to synthesizer keys.


Maarten

I have both a weighted 88 key as a synth 76 key...

Most instruments are better emulated when playing weighted keys, they give me much much more controll over the sound(espescially when there is still aftertouch). The only thing where a synth keyboard works better is organ parts and ultra fast synth parts..

I come from a home organ background... i got my first weighted keyboard about 10 years ago, and i have grown slowly to prefer the weighted keyboard, not only for piano parts, but for almost any arranger part...

These days, i controll the arranger mostly over midi, playing the 88 keybed of my kronos, and using pedals for quick changes...


With the youngsters in Holland mostly playing 88 keys, at home and on stage, having an 88 key version of the top end arranger sounds only like a logical step to me, when yamaha wants to make the product popular with those under 30...
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.  I am wayting for the next box of chocolate the Yamaha Genos.

Admin of : www.keyszone.boards.net
 

Online Bachus

Re: Weighted Keys
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2017, 12:13:09 PM »
Very well ..
PSR & Tyros are keyboards .. CVPs are pianos ...
to each his own..

The only difference is the keybed... for the rest they are mostly the same instruments...
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.  I am wayting for the next box of chocolate the Yamaha Genos.

Admin of : www.keyszone.boards.net
 

Online Bachus

Re: Weighted Keys
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2017, 12:18:31 PM »
When you play professionally, often 3 to 4 hours a day, 7 days a week, weighted keys are the last thing you want on a keyboard. I performed using a Clavinova for 4 hours and at the end of the night, my hands were so cramped that I had to go home and soak them in hot water for several hours to alleve the pain. If the next arranger had weighted keys, I would not purchase it, regardless of how good it sounded.

All the best,

Gary 8)

Did you take the time to get used to the weighted keys?


From experience i can tell that for a non weighted keyboard player, it will take up to a year to get used to the weighted action, and create the muscle power to play the heavier keys as effordless as synthkeys...

I am serious, currently i can play the weighted keys of the kronos as effordless as an arranger.
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.  I am wayting for the next box of chocolate the Yamaha Genos.

Admin of : www.keyszone.boards.net
 

Online Bachus

Re: Weighted Keys
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2017, 12:22:42 PM »
Needles to say...

As soon as anyone delivers a high end 88 key arranger, with high end styles, sounds, multipads, aftertouch ...  i will convert.. add my macbook for a whole world of sound, and i am set for the future

Or, i might add an arranger module with both styles and multipads to the Kronos (or any other favourite 88 keyboard)
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.  I am wayting for the next box of chocolate the Yamaha Genos.

Admin of : www.keyszone.boards.net
 

Offline pjd

Re: Weighted Keys
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2017, 06:41:38 AM »
Hi --

For us, it all depends upon personal preference and repetoire. For Yamaha, sales.

Montage offers FSX in the 61- and 76-key instruments, balanced hammer in the 88. Sound On Sound just reviewed the Montage and the reviewer (Gordon Reid) didn't like FSX in the 76, wanting a "full-size" semi-weighted action instead. The FSX key width was judged as too narrow. Opinions abound!

The sales of an 88-key synth probably justify the expense of offering an 88-key model. I have to think that Yamaha have weighed this decision (pun intended) carefully for arrangers. Maybe instruments like the Korg Havian might prompt action?

BTW, not all health issues with weighted action depend on hand strength. My arthritis precludes extended play on a weighted action keyboard. Mostly, it's my wrists that take a beating.

All the best, everybody -- pj
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 07:12:34 AM by pjd »
 

Offline maartenb

Re: Weighted Keys
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2017, 11:52:44 AM »
The FSX key width was judged as too narrow.
The FSX keys are narrower than full size piano keys. Measure five octaves on an FSX board and on a piano. The piano five octaves are 2.5cm (1") wider.

Personally, I like the narrower (more narrow?) keys of the FSX, because it's easier to play octaves in the right hand and chords in the left hand.


Maarten
 

Offline mikf

Re: Weighted Keys
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2017, 12:09:56 PM »
High cost, weight and size are probably the big drivers rather than personal keyboard preference. Proper weighted and simulated hammer action, full size keys, 88 keys, all adds up to huge additional cost and weight and Yamaha knows price point and features drives sales more than high end piano style keyboards.
Mike
 

Offline pjd

Re: Weighted Keys
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2017, 01:19:07 PM »
Hi Maarten --

Yep, Gordon Reid did measure in his review. Full size 76-key from E to G was 1060mm and the FSX was 1033mm. His gripe is "trained pianists are at risk of playing ninths when reaching for octaves." So, his bug is your feature.  ;D

I'm good with the FSX, too -- likely to be my next keyboard. It has a more sturdy feel than the S950.

Take care -- pj
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 01:26:32 PM by pjd »
 

Offline guitpic1

Re: Weighted Keys
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2017, 12:42:52 PM »
Did you take the time to get used to the weighted keys?


From experience i can tell that for a non weighted keyboard player, it will take up to a year to get used to the weighted action, and create the muscle power to play the heavier keys as effordless as synthkeys...

I am serious, currently i can play the weighted keys of the kronos as effordless as an arranger.

I'm a bit more on board with Bachus here.  I perform with a 61 key(PA 4X) arranger..love the touch.  However we also own a digital piano/arranger in the DGX 650.  I bought the DGX to try to learn basic piano.

Truth be told, the DGX works very well for me when playing it as an arranger.  I find the weighted keys very effective when playing both voices and styles.  And many times I feel like I have better control of voices because the keys are weighted.

The DGX isn't practical for performing because it's too heavy and also, the arranger functions are about on par with the lowest entry level portable keyboard that Yamaha sells.  We have a PSR E423; the arranger functions on the DGX aren't even that sophisticated.

I don't expect a weighted key arranger from Yamaha that would work for gigging....probably would compete with the Clavinovas.

However, a weighted 61 key arranger that wouldn't be any larger(weight about the same)than the Tyros would definitely interest me.

 :)
guitpic1

PA 4X, S970, DGX650, JBL Eon One, SSV.3
 

Offline mikf

Re: Weighted Keys
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2017, 09:33:13 PM »
Don't forget there is an easy solution if you like weighted keys, just midi a quality keyboard to the arranger. The weight is then split between two keyboards, so easily carried.
Mike
 

Online Bachus

Re: Weighted Keys
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2017, 12:56:15 PM »
Don't forget there is an easy solution if you like weighted keys, just midi a quality keyboard to the arranger. The weight is then split between two keyboards, so easily carried.
Mike

Yes.. and no...

I prefer to have the co troll buttons directly above the keys i play...  having the arranger keyboard in the upper position has one mega huge drawback for me... the arranger controlls are to far away from my fingers when mainly playing the lower weighted keybed..

This has become a real issue for me ove rthe years....  and even an irritator...

Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.  I am wayting for the next box of chocolate the Yamaha Genos.

Admin of : www.keyszone.boards.net
 

Offline guitpic1

Re: Weighted Keys
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2017, 01:31:00 PM »
Don't forget there is an easy solution if you like weighted keys, just midi a quality keyboard to the arranger. The weight is then split between two keyboards, so easily carried.
Mike

I've got a friend doing this...not so easily carried....plus other issues...keyboard control as Bachus mentions.

My friend hauls an S970 plus an 88 key controller plus a heavier keyboard stand that can hold two keyboards....not to mention more cables to connect.

If I was playing once a month, I might be tempted to do this.  But this month I have 10 gigs...and sometimes more.

Perhaps if I had a roadie?

 :)

guitpic1

PA 4X, S970, DGX650, JBL Eon One, SSV.3