Author Topic: I need to ask you experts about an idea I have  (Read 623 times)

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Offline Aulis

I need to ask you experts about an idea I have
« on: February 17, 2017, 03:10:53 AM »
Hi to all
I hope this is the correct section for my topic.

Me and my four friends in our blues project tries to meet regularly in our rehearsal room, but too often the bass guitarist or drummer is busy elsewhere.
I have begun to drag around my S770 to cover up the bass and / or drums.
I like to have my S770 available at home so I got this idea which I want to ask you about;

Is it possible to get an E453 or similar to play styles (mainly the bass and drum tracks) I’ve arranged in my S770?  I don’t like static midi files for this purpose
It feels quite costly to buy an additional S770 for this purpose, and used S7xx, 9xx or such is hard to find here. 
Therefore I was thinking about the E-range.

Best regards
Aulis Gårdemark
Yamaha PSR-S770, MOX6, NordElectro 4D,
Pär-Kallez dansband   Sven & The Sqinheads blues/rockband
... I also like flyfishing ...
 

Offline SciNote

Re: I need to ask you experts about an idea I have
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2017, 06:24:55 AM »
Other people here are much more knowledgeable about styles and style conversions than I am, and I'm sure they will eventually answer.  But from what I've read, it is possible to "scale down" styles from the higher-end keyboards to the E4xx series keyboards.  One thing that has to be considered is that the higher-end keyboard styles usually have 4 variations, but the E4xx series keyboards are only capable of playing styles with 2 variations.  So, when being converted, two variations have to be left out.  I've seen it suggested that one style from a higher-end keyboard could be converted to two styles for the E4xx series, with one of the converted styles having the A and B variations, and the other converted styles having the C and D variations -- or other group pairings, such as A, C and B, D or A, D and B, C.

The format of the style (I believe that format code starts with SFF) and the memory size of the file also have to be considered and possibly converted, but I don't have those details.  Again, I'm sure we'll get more replies to this thread!  :)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 06:27:22 AM by SciNote »
Bob
Yamaha PSR-E433
Yamaha PSR-520
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: I need to ask you experts about an idea I have
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2017, 01:04:34 PM »
It's not difficult to convert style files for the PSR-E453 and other XGlite models. Following are the steps I go through to do this. They may look rather laborious, but once you've converted a few styles and have familiarized yourself with the procedure, you should be able to do it fairly quickly without having to refer to a list of steps.

(1) Make backup copies of the style files and work only on the copies.

(2) Use the "Style Format Finder" program (http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/sff/index.htm) to see whether the style files are in the SFF2 format or the SFF1 format. You can do this for an entire folder of style files at the same time.

(3) Use the "Style Format 2 Converter" program (http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/sf2c/index.htm) to convert any SFF2 style files to SFF1 style files.

(4) Use the "Style Old Format Converter" program (http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/sofc/index.htm) to convert the SFF1 style files to an older SFF1 format. At the minimum, you should check the following two options:
- Convert Mega Voices
- Use .sty extension
You may also want to check the following three options, although they aren't required:
- Delete OTS Section
- Use old CASM Format
- Max. resolution 480

(5) At this point you should have a style file that the PSR-E453 can load-- unless it's too large. (If I remember correctly, the limit is roughly 50kB.) However, even though the PSR-E453 can load 4-variation style files, it cannot use the C and D variations, only the A and B variations. If a given style file is small enough to load and the variations you want to use are already in the A and B positions, then you can probably use it as is (although you should still consider performing steps 6 and 7). But if you want to use the C or D variation, or the file is too large, use the "Style Remixer" program (http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/sremix/index.htm) to rearrange the sections so the two variations you want to use are in the A and B positions. It's also a good idea to delete any sections that the PSR-E453 can't use, although that's mainly to keep the file from being any larger than necessary. Note that if you want to be able to use all four variations then you'll need to make two copies of the style file, one with the A and B variations, and the other with the C and D variations (but moved to the A and B positions).

(6) Use the "Style Revoicer" program (http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/revsty/index.htm) to inspect which voices and drum kits are used by the style file, and to convert them as needed to voices and drum kits which are available on the PSR-E453. You can also use the "Mix Master" program (http://psrtutorial.com/MB/mixMaster.html) to do this. Note that this is largely an optional step, because in many cases when the specified voices or drum kits aren't available the keyboard will simply default to the GM1 voices and drum kit. But that isn't always the case; sometimes the part that uses the unavailable voice or drum kit will go silent instead. Also, the keyboard may have better-sounding alternatives than the GM1 voices and drum kit. Thus, it's strongly advised that you edit the voices and drum kits used to be sure the style is using the best ones available.

(7) Another optional step is to use the "Mix Master" program (http://psrtutorial.com/MB/mixMaster.html) to remove MIDI events that the PSR-E453 can't respond to-- e.g., DSP insertion effects. This is mainly to keep the file from being any larger than necessary. On the other hand, it's strongly advised that you edit the Reverb and Chorus events to be sure the style is selecting a Reverb Type and Chorus Type which is available on the PSR-E453.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 01:07:50 PM by SeaGtGruff »
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443
 

Offline Aulis

Re: I need to ask you experts about an idea I have
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2017, 10:00:51 PM »
Thanks to all of you who have read and responded to my topic.

There is a bigger difference in technology in a Exxx and Sxxx than I thought, and what I want to accomplish will probably be disappointing, despite all workarounds
I went this weekend to our local music store to try one of my styles in the E453, but they had only E253 and E353 in store. I was recommended to look at the S670. This obviously costs more than E453 but they could order one for me to try out.

Is it true that a PSR-S670 can handle the same styles as the S770?

Best regards
Aulis G
Yamaha PSR-S770, MOX6, NordElectro 4D,
Pär-Kallez dansband   Sven & The Sqinheads blues/rockband
... I also like flyfishing ...
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: I need to ask you experts about an idea I have
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2017, 11:38:57 PM »
Yes, the PSR-S670 can play 4-variation SFF2 files, although as far as playing styles that were tweaked for the PSR-S770 you'll need to tweak them again for the voices and effects which are available on the PSR-S670.

My understanding is that the weight of the PSR-S770 is a large part of why you're looking for another keyboard to tote around with you, so you might want to look at the weight of the PSR-S670 to see how it compares to the weights of the PSR-S770 and PSR-E453.

As far as the styles themselves, it really isn't that difficult to convert and tweak a style for the PSR-E models. With respect to the number of variations per style, it's true that the PSR-E models are limited to 2 variations per style, but I'm not sure how many variations are actually used when playing any given song. I think the primary advantage of having multiple variations per style is so a single style can potentially be used to play a greater number of songs, as suggested by the fact that different entries in the Music Database might use the same style but select different variations of that style.

Also, you can save a Style Number in a Registration Memory, and if you switch to a different Registration while playing it's possible to use more than one style for the accompaniment when playing a song. In that way you could conceivably convert a single style file into two or more PSR-E styles and then use Registrations to select whichever style file contains the specific variations that you want to use for a given part of the song.

On the other hand, another possible consideration is that the voices of the PSR-E models might not sound as good to you as those of the PSR-S models, since-- if I understand correctly-- the XGlite models are limited to just 1 element per voice, whereas XG models can use 2 or more elements per voice. Thus, even if a given voice is available on both keyboards (PSR-S770 and PSR-E453), that voice might sound a bit different ("thinner"?) on the PSR-E453 than on the PSR-S770 due to it being played with only 1 element. But I'm not sure about that.

A final consideration is that the PSR-E models can't use the One Touch Settings in a style file, so if you need to use the OTS feature with your style files then the PSR-S670 would probably be a better choice.
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443