Author Topic: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR  (Read 18810 times)

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Online Joe H

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #50 on: January 20, 2017, 05:51:34 PM »
Enildo,

Look over here for the answer to your question  -->   http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,36954.msg282888.html#msg282888

Joe H
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 05:56:27 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Enildo

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #51 on: January 20, 2017, 08:12:53 PM »
Thank you Joe !!! You gave me a valuable tip!
This was a serious problem and thanks to you and this forum we were taken care of by Yamaha. Cheers!
Psr s970 - The best PSR!
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #52 on: January 20, 2017, 10:23:27 PM »
"... The new Yamaha PSR-E263 and the PSR-E363 ..."

I was expecting them to announce the PSR-E263 and PSR-E363 this year, but didn't see any mention in the Winter NAMM press release that was posted on their web site.
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443
 

Offline andyg

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #53 on: January 21, 2017, 01:42:18 PM »
I don't normally bother with speculative or 'wish list' threads. I'm probably one of the few people here (maybe the only one?) who has actually designed a keyboard and worked in R&D and I know just how tricky it is to balance what one section of the market would like with what the vast majority would actually use  - and come up with a product that makes everyone happy!  ;)
 Well, of course it never happens that way and the more complex the instruments become, the harder it gets, believe me. When I joined R&D, I had it drilled into me that you didn't design a product with all the things that you wanted, or had been nagged about by dealers and customers. You worked as hard as you could to get that balance right, knowing full well that you'd upset some people and get the flak for it. That flak is now more vocal and more prevalent thanks to internet forums!  :D

So I won't speculate as such, but at some point I'm sure that Yamaha are going to have to make a break with the previous ranges - PSR, PSR-S and Tyros (and CVP for that matter). Otherwise they're going to be hampered by the baggage of the old technology in those instruments. Styles perhaps being the prime example, and the overall operating system and song recorder being two more.

They've done this before now, think of the step forward from the PSR740 to the PSR2000. Just maybe this is the time for that leap forward. Non compatibility will annoy, and maybe anger, some people and that's understandable, but heck, it used to happen in the organ business all the time. How many times have I had to remake concerts' worth of registrations to move to a new set of instruments? Non compatibility is usually the price you pay for a big step forward.

I put my 2 pence worth in on styles ages ago. For me, audio styles are a dead end. Find and read my long previous post on why I think so!

As for showing or not showing a new product this early in the year, for as long as I can recall (ie since 1977) it's been common practice to show at Winter NAMM and Frankfurt if the product is being launched in the Autumn. Often it will still be a late stage prototype with the pre-production models not appearing until Summer NAMM. And it's been common practice to show these off-limits to the public and often only to selected dealers/distributors. Sometimes even off-site. What Yamaha have done this year, I haven't a clue, but I would not be surprised if a new flagship were around in some form by now.

I'll see what my NAMM spies/trade colleagues can tell me but I expect I'll be sworn to secrecy - which I shall respect!  :D
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 01:51:04 PM by andyg »
It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 

Online EileenL

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #54 on: January 21, 2017, 03:43:59 PM »
A very good post Andy and if Yamaha keep to there format we will not know anything until it is ready for launch. Then we will all decide if it is what we want or not and the complaining will start as it always dose.
  Yes we really do need some new styles and multi pads if that is the way they are going. I would hope we will be able to use some of the styles we have collected over the years but must wait and see. As you say the keyboard is probably finished by now and is in its testing stages so we can only hope the requests for all these things to be on it will stop now because the decisions will have been made.

Offline FredrikC

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #55 on: January 21, 2017, 05:27:24 PM »
I'll see what my NAMM spies/trade colleagues can tell me but I expect I'll be sworn to secrecy - which I shall respect!  :D

If you post what they tell you here, we promise not to tell anyone.  Your secret is safe with us...
Fred

Yamaha: Tyros 5 76, DGX-650, YPT-320, DX-7, SY-99 (last two in attic)
Other: Kronos2 88, Fretted Clavichord, Upright Piano, eMu MPS (also in attic)
RCM Certificates: Advanced Rudiments
 

Online Roger Brenizer

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #56 on: January 21, 2017, 05:46:22 PM »
LOL, Fredrik!!!
"Music Is My Life"
My best regards,
Roger

(The older I get...the better I used to be...LOL!!!)
Roger’s PSR Performer Page
 

Offline J. Larry

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #57 on: January 21, 2017, 06:47:04 PM »
Like Eileen says, we’ll know something when Yamaha’s ready.  If a new flagship arranger is forthcoming, wonder if they’ll begin by posting those teaser videos long before the product appears, that show something blurry, or a piece of something that everyone speculates about?  And, what descriptions might they use?  Awesome; be prepared to be blown away; you won’t believe what you’re seeing and hearing; the arranger of the future, or some such jargon.  What can they add that hasn’t been used for previous models?
 

Offline Bachus

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #58 on: January 22, 2017, 12:53:41 AM »
A very good post Andy and if Yamaha keep to there format we will not know anything until it is ready for launch. Then we will all decide if it is what we want or not and the complaining will start as it always dose.
  Yes we really do need some new styles and multi pads if that is the way they are going. I would hope we will be able to use some of the styles we have collected over the years but must wait and see. As you say the keyboard is probably finished by now and is in its testing stages so we can only hope the requests for all these things to be on it will stop now because the decisions will have been made.

Yes very good post by Andy..

Espescially the part about ballancing features... tough i still think Yamaha should have bigger updates then they currently have... there is a reason so many musicians skip every other version..

About new styles.. i think they need to advance... that for sure... but backward compatibility is also very very important for gigging musicians.. people currently stick to a brand because they can allways keep using their old styles and sounds... and get some new on top of that..

And while i see that we need to advance the style part, i dont think it should be hard for Yamaha to have both the new as well as the old style engine inside...so basically this would allow backward compatibillity, while still moving forward... it would also make it easier for yamaha to make the jump, if they would only release with 100 or 150 styles inside and no user styles available..  this would be a no go for many people...  so while a new style engine would be really really nice..  removing the old one would hurt to much in my opinion... so it would be wise to have them both inside...


I agree with Andy on the audio styles.. in the end i removes a lot of freedom for edditing them, they are less dynamic, and my best guess is we want a more dynamic accompaniment..
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.  I am wayting for the next box of chocolate the Yamaha Genos.

Admin of : www.keyszone.boards.net
 

Offline andyg

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #59 on: January 22, 2017, 01:34:05 AM »
there is a reason so many musicians skip every other version..

Interestingly, we used to almost plan it like that! Not everyone would, or could, change every time a new model was released. Like many manufacturers, we had a general plan of revolution followed by evolution. So customers would often change every other release. Yamaha (and others) have done more evolution than revolution recently, perhaps? Economic reasons would play a large part in that.
It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 

Offline Bachus

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #60 on: January 22, 2017, 06:55:58 AM »
Interestingly, we used to almost plan it like that! Not everyone would, or could, change every time a new model was released. Like many manufacturers, we had a general plan of revolution followed by evolution. So customers would often change every other release. Yamaha (and others) have done more evolution than revolution recently, perhaps? Economic reasons would play a large part in that.

Maybe its the customer inside me, that wants the can do everything and all model when he spends so much money on a single keyboard..

The customer in me thinks he deserves everything Yamaha has to offer when he spends half a fortune on a single keyboard..

Now if there would be another company offering this, i would jump ship...  but somehow it feels yamaha and korg have a huge advancement in technollogy...   
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.  I am wayting for the next box of chocolate the Yamaha Genos.

Admin of : www.keyszone.boards.net
 

Online EileenL

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #61 on: January 22, 2017, 07:59:51 AM »
Times change and things get more expensive. Years ago when I had a Five thousand Pound Organ I would never had dreamed that today you would have to pay over Twenty Thousand for the same thing. I don't think you will ever see a keyboard that has every thing on it. There are a lot of people out there that do not know just what there Tyros 5 will do and would not want a lot of other things added to it and have to pay for something they would never use. Yamaha has to weigh all this up when deciding on the next keyboard, the main thing is how will it sell.

Online Joe H

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #62 on: January 22, 2017, 08:18:13 AM »
... When I joined R&D, I had it drilled into me that you didn't design a product with all the things that you wanted, or had been nagged about by dealers and customers. You worked as hard as you could to get that balance right, knowing full well that you'd upset some people and get the flak for it...

Well this idea can only make me wonder then... who asked for Organ World, or Ensemble or the arpeggiator and LIVE CONTROL.  Was it keyboard owners, dealers or someone in Yamaha R&D who wanted these features.   I suspect these features got built into the design from both internal and external input.

And as has already been stated more than once here... we will just have to wait to see what's new with the next arranger.    What is often expressed by Yamaha is the desire to achieve realistic sounds and music with a keyboard.  This is evident.  What is also evident is that Yamaha understands that the keyboard players want more control over their performances and music production.

So I think that is the balance Andy speaks of.  Yamaha designers pushing for a better more realistic sounding instrument, and satisfying the wants and needs of the musician who desires more creative control in a digital workstation.

Joe H
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 08:19:59 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Online maartenb

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #63 on: January 23, 2017, 12:23:09 AM »
The customer in me thinks he deserves everything Yamaha has to offer when he spends half a fortune on a single keyboard..
I have a different view.

The customer in me looks at what an instrument has to offer and then decides if he is willing to pay the price. If not, I'll skip a model. Or I'll go to a different brand/model. If I decide to purchase the keyboard, I am happy with it and don't look back at the price. (And I immediately start saving for the next model, since this hobby gives me much pleasure.)

I don't think Yamaha owe me anything more than the instrument that I voluntarily bought (except bug fixes).

When I read your comment about "half a fortune" I get the impression that part of you wanted to have the keyboard and another part wasn't willing to pay the price. You can't blame Yamaha for that internal conflict.


Maarten

Online EileenL

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #64 on: January 23, 2017, 02:40:16 AM »
Hi Maarten,
  I could not agree more. I too get great enjoyment from my Yamaha keyboard. We all have a choice but I think what ever Yamaha produce someone will always want more and complain like mad. I also think people forget that basically Tyros 5 in an Arranger keyboard more than a work station. Organ world is great for people who love organs and believe me some do. Ensemble is good for those classic pieces people like to perform and again there are a lot that do. A home keyboard as well as a gigging keyboard has to be versatile and Tyros 5 certainly is that. It has to have a very wide appeal as we are all different in our needs. We don't all want to play thumping Dance Music or use DAW's or computer enhancing features. We just want to play.

Offline andyg

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #65 on: January 23, 2017, 04:12:59 AM »
Well this idea can only make me wonder then... who asked for Organ World, or Ensemble or the arpeggiator and LIVE CONTROL.  Was it keyboard owners, dealers or someone in Yamaha R&D who wanted these features.   I suspect these features got built into the design from both internal and external input.

Perhaps I should have put the word 'all' in my post in bold type. Of course, you listen to input from everyone, but you quickly learn that you have to dismiss some of it. Some wish list items are technically impossible or impractical to implement. Others will be of interest to a small minority of customers and R&D time and money is simply better spent on other things that the majority will use. That 'balance' again.

Of all the Yamaha forums, this one has probably the biggest collection of the most technically knowledgeable, technically demanding and (no insult intended - definitely!) most vocal users. Nothing wrong with that, and it's what helps make this site the 'go to' place for all those technical issues that crop up. However, that very level of knowledge somewhat removes these people from the 'run of the mill' players (again, no insult intended!) who make up the majority of users.

I'm sure that we're all aware that a great many players these days don't venture past 1 finger chords, or simple 3 finger chords and Music Finder/OTS. The instruments have become almost too complex to handle for some, so they use those features to get down to what's really important for them - playing tunes. It's not just Yamaha - Lowrey have now put 7000 factory presets into their latest organ, along with features like 'Fake It' for keyboards and pedals - there's a lovely bit in their sales video where the guy just plays a few chords and lets the organ do ALL the rest, producing ad-lib solos for both keyboards. Hmmmm. But it sure helps sell the organ to its target market. And 'Fake It' orginally comes from Kawai's 'One Finger Ad Lib' feature from 1988! The 'Virtuoso' arpeggiator (true arpeggiator, not the synth type feature of the same name) started in 1964!

As for Organ World, that's nothing really new either. Technics had the beginnings of this in the KN7000 keyboard many years ago. A shame that they pulled out of the music business, as I'm sure that the instruments that would have followed would have given Yamaha, Roland and Korg more to think about and I'm certain that advancements would have been faster. With the almost terminal decline in the home organ business, there was a distinct requirement to put sounds into the Tyros range that would appeal to those players who were almost being forced to transfer to keyboard. The US Organ expansion pack was used to test the waters, maybe?

Ensemble? That started life years ago as well - 'Dynamic Voice Assignment' was its name, as I recall - again on a Technics organ. And even further back we had maybe the raw beginnings on Kawai, albeit hooked up to synths/modules via MIDI where top and bottom notes played in a chord would produce different voices.

So these things have been thought about and discussed for some time, and it's sometimes years before the technology catches up. Case in point? I sketched out an organ in 1983 for Kawai, to replace one that I'd sketched out in 1979 (it went on to become the DX900, a huge seller) The engineers studied it, thought it had some good ideas but the technology in the current and next generations wouldn't support it. It wasn't until late 1985 that I got the call to finalise those ideas, which came to fruition in 1987 as the SR6. Now in all of the meetings, we all had to compromise on some of the things that we 'knew' were going to be what the buyers wanted! I thumped the table a few times, I can tell you, to get much of my input included.  :D But even I, as head of the organists' team, couldn't have everything!

So you'll never get an instrument to satisfy everyone but you will (hopefully!) get one that's as good as it can be, given the technology available and the true market demands.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 04:18:54 AM by andyg »
It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 

Offline pjd

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #66 on: January 23, 2017, 05:46:29 AM »
Hi --

Andy, thanks for your fabulous posts! I'm sure that all the current and former product development folks are nodding their heads.

Your comments about balance remind me of a few arching principles that we used on the job at my last employer (AMD). First and foremost, always respect the customer and listen. I don't think any company that sells into a broad market can survive if they violate this principle.

The other principle is when to follow the customer and when to lead the customer. This is tricky because you never want to violate principle #1! Following the customer includes bug fixes and product improvements that are suggested by customers, field support, whoever. These improvements usually affect preexisting features and are somewhat incremental, although an increment may be substantial.

The tougher problem is when and how to lead the customer. We realized that customers could not anticipate or describe innovations that would truly revolutionize their approach to their work and our product. These are the features which people don't see coming and can give an edge over competitors. Of course, it's possible to overreach (or be too early) and leave your customers baffled!

Personally, I put the ensemble feature of the T5 in the "leading" category. I didn't see that one coming. Yamaha did a great job of not getting too far out in front of the Tyros customer while pushing the product forward in a very significant way.

Thanks, again. Great stuff!

-- pj

Online Joe H

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #67 on: January 23, 2017, 07:49:49 AM »
Andy and pj,

Thank you both for your insight and comments.  I think you are both spot on in your understanding of these things ...  having the professional backgrounds that you do.

Regards,
Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Bachus

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #68 on: January 23, 2017, 01:50:54 PM »
Perhaps I should have put the word 'all' in my post in bold type. Of course, you listen to input from everyone, but you quickly learn that you have to dismiss some of it. Some wish list items are technically impossible or impractical to implement. Others will be of interest to a small minority of customers and R&D time and money is simply better spent on other things that the majority will use. That 'balance' again.

Of all the Yamaha forums, this one has probably the biggest collection of the most technically knowledgeable, technically demanding and (no insult intended - definitely!) most vocal users. Nothing wrong with that, and it's what helps make this site the 'go to' place for all those technical issues that crop up. However, that very level of knowledge somewhat removes these people from the 'run of the mill' players (again, no insult intended!) who make up the majority of users.

I'm sure that we're all aware that a great many players these days don't venture past 1 finger chords, or simple 3 finger chords and Music Finder/OTS. The instruments have become almost too complex to handle for some, so they use those features to get down to what's really important for them - playing tunes. It's not just Yamaha - Lowrey have now put 7000 factory presets into their latest organ, along with features like 'Fake It' for keyboards and pedals - there's a lovely bit in their sales video where the guy just plays a few chords and lets the organ do ALL the rest, producing ad-lib solos for both keyboards. Hmmmm. But it sure helps sell the organ to its target market. And 'Fake It' orginally comes from Kawai's 'One Finger Ad Lib' feature from 1988! The 'Virtuoso' arpeggiator (true arpeggiator, not the synth type feature of the same name) started in 1964!

As for Organ World, that's nothing really new either. Technics had the beginnings of this in the KN7000 keyboard many years ago. A shame that they pulled out of the music business, as I'm sure that the instruments that would have followed would have given Yamaha, Roland and Korg more to think about and I'm certain that advancements would have been faster. With the almost terminal decline in the home organ business, there was a distinct requirement to put sounds into the Tyros range that would appeal to those players who were almost being forced to transfer to keyboard. The US Organ expansion pack was used to test the waters, maybe?

Ensemble? That started life years ago as well - 'Dynamic Voice Assignment' was its name, as I recall - again on a Technics organ. And even further back we had maybe the raw beginnings on Kawai, albeit hooked up to synths/modules via MIDI where top and bottom notes played in a chord would produce different voices.

So these things have been thought about and discussed for some time, and it's sometimes years before the technology catches up. Case in point? I sketched out an organ in 1983 for Kawai, to replace one that I'd sketched out in 1979 (it went on to become the DX900, a huge seller) The engineers studied it, thought it had some good ideas but the technology in the current and next generations wouldn't support it. It wasn't until late 1985 that I got the call to finalise those ideas, which came to fruition in 1987 as the SR6. Now in all of the meetings, we all had to compromise on some of the things that we 'knew' were going to be what the buyers wanted! I thumped the table a few times, I can tell you, to get much of my input included.  :D But even I, as head of the organists' team, couldn't have everything!

So you'll never get an instrument to satisfy everyone but you will (hopefully!) get one that's as good as it can be, given the technology available and the true market demands.


I can absolutely follow your reasoning...  about current totl arrangers growing people over their heads becomming way to advanced..  and thats why i predicted a split.. between PSR pro, for strictly arranger players....   and the new Genos, even more into workstation territory as the Tyros 5...

A split like this would definatley suit all current players..  giving people a choice...



I think the current ensemble voices from Tyros 5 however are mostly inspired by the current NI kontakt 5 libraries..  and much less by the things Kawai and technics did some time ago...

Oh, and its still rumored that the best technics developers joined yamaha after the demise of the technics and that they indeed brought many ideas that are currently implemented into the Tyros range... but thats another story...


I still think the psr s970 and Montage showed off much of what we can expect in the next generation high end arranger workstation..    just look at the montage performances in this link, and imagine how a simplified  version of this would finally help tyros perform some real modern dance and trance music..

http://keyszone.boards.net/thread/52/dance-pro-expansion-easysounds-montage

I think its safe to asume that the superknobs will make their way in a more advanced for, to the Tyros6/Genos...  but in the end, only time will tell..
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.  I am wayting for the next box of chocolate the Yamaha Genos.

Admin of : www.keyszone.boards.net
 

Online Joe H

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #69 on: January 23, 2017, 04:22:45 PM »
Bachus,

I've communicated with Peter about the Dance Pro Voice pack for the S970 / Tyros 5.  He said he will be working on it, but the Montage is his top priority for now.  But after listening to the Dance Pro Voices I think they are a bit dated.

Right now we have the Euro Dance Voices and they can sound pretty good with some adjustments of the Filters, and Amp Envelopes.

Did you hear this demo of mine?  I played with the Kick Drum Filters, Envelopes and Pitch to get the sound you hear.  --> http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,37107.msg283175.html#msg283175

BTW... I'm working on some new Trance Voice packs for the S970 and T-5 that I think might be better than the Dance Pro Voices.  I've got 2 or 3 months of tweaking to do before they will be finished though.

Joe H

« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 08:14:27 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline andyg

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #70 on: January 24, 2017, 02:20:30 AM »
Just 'rumoured' that some Technics people went to Yamaha? Hmmm, I can think of one or two friends who actually did so! Not sure if they joined as full time staff or freelance consultants, but they moved!

And the desire to hold a chord and get one sound per key goes back a long way, probably further than I mentioned, but it's only as the technology improved that it's become a true feature, whether in real or virtual instruments. I think Ensemble could and should be expanded but I have to wonder how many of those 'run of the mill' players use it much, or at all? I teach a cross section of T5 players and know an awful lot more of them. Of those, only one uses Ensemble regularly and that's using Harmony to produce the notes. Reason for non-use? Usually "Too confusing" or "Too hard to use".
It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 

Offline Bachus

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #71 on: January 24, 2017, 12:06:27 PM »
Just 'rumoured' that some Technics people went to Yamaha? Hmmm, I can think of one or two friends who actually did so! Not sure if they joined as full time staff or freelance consultants, but they moved!

And the desire to hold a chord and get one sound per key goes back a long way, probably further than I mentioned, but it's only as the technology improved that it's become a true feature, whether in real or virtual instruments. I think Ensemble could and should be expanded but I have to wonder how many of those 'run of the mill' players use it much, or at all? I teach a cross section of T5 players and know an awful lot more of them. Of those, only one uses Ensemble regularly and that's using Harmony to produce the notes. Reason for non-use? Usually "Too confusing" or "Too hard to use".

I think playing the ensemble voices is like learning to play a different instrument... but so is almost every other sound...  dont try to play a piano sound like you would play an organ sound...  and never play brass, saxes and such witouth an expression pedal...

How many arranger players realise they can play more then a single note at the same time with their right hand?

Learning to master playing an arranger his a fulltime job, and i am not even halfway, never sattisfied with my performances, allways making mistakes, yet progressing slowly...

Playing ensemble voices, is a pro thing ...  but if you master them, you can indeed get imcredible results fooling your audience, they will never believe its just one man playing them..  they are by far my favorite thing of the tyros 5...  did you know, you could midi each of the 4 instruments in an ensemble over its own channel..   just try hooking up 4 synth sounds on my kronos, can put you into sound heaven with the ensembles...


This is also why i think, its better for yamaha to split up the tyros in 2 instruments... psr pro series for all typical arranger players.... and a high end workstation arranger for people like me that want more advanced features, yet still want the arranger part..
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.  I am wayting for the next box of chocolate the Yamaha Genos.

Admin of : www.keyszone.boards.net
 

Offline mikf

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #72 on: January 24, 2017, 02:21:11 PM »
Bachus - I think the flaw in your theory is that the people who want both (arranger and high end workstation) is quite a small percentage. You can even see this on this forum, where demand for high end workstation features are coming from a relatively small number of people. There are a lot of people who just want to play an instrument.  Some are beginners with a dream of creating their own music and some are expert players who want a fuller sound. And there are lot of people who love to use software, electronics and all sorts of gizmos to create and manipulate sound. My observation is that mostly they are not the same people. Not 100%  of course but probably way more than 90%.
There was a program on BBC about the history of sound recording that was on just before I left the UK in early January and I caught a few episodes. One of the observations that they made was that Hip Hop and other kinds of currently popular dance music was largely the invention of people who could not play instruments. They learned how they could create original stuff first by manipulating records on the turntable and then by more advanced techniques like sampling etc. 
Mike 

Offline J. Larry

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #73 on: January 24, 2017, 03:57:00 PM »
Given a choice, I’d opt for a PSR Pro arranger, with fabulous styles and voices.  Little else.  Leave the high-tech, gee whiz, knob upon knob stuff to others.   

Online Joe H

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #74 on: January 24, 2017, 04:19:02 PM »
mikf,

You and I have had a brief exchange in the past regarding EDM.  It is definitely played on arranger keyboards.  I think you know I've posted many styles in recent months that I created for the S950, S970 and Tyros keyboards.  And in the above #69 Reply to Bachus I included a link to a demo I "played" and recorded and just posted.

http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,37107.msg283175.html#msg283175


So... BBC program or no BBC program, EDM is not just for DAWs;  It can be quite complex music that is written by accomplish musicians these days borrowing from elements of classical music structures.

Joe H
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 04:22:11 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline mikf

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #75 on: January 24, 2017, 08:45:11 PM »
Joe
I don't disagree with you, and I don't think the BBC did either. They were talking about the genesis being in non instrument playing creative people. But of course it evolved, and many top musicians became involved. I also appreciate that you have done some amazing things in style creation, and have demonstrated that the arranger could be a great tool in the creation of this style of music. But the current reality is that most people buying arrangers in the market are not into this, and also that most people into this type of music creation are not buying arrangers. I can appreciate that adding more facility to the arranger might actually change the buying habits, but unfortunately the very things that move the arranger in that direction might be a turn off for the typical arranger buyer. So that is a difficult balance for the manufacturers. It will be interesting to see how it evolves.   
Mike
 

Online Joe H

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #76 on: January 24, 2017, 10:06:13 PM »
mikf,

Yes I follow all of of what you say, but remember that Yamaha does not take away anything of the previous models, they just add more features and capabilities to each new model.  While I may be an exception at age 69 with my interest in this kind of music... the fact that Yamaha has added an arpeggiator, Live Control features and more Synth type voices, it seems to me that is an indication that Yamaha is trying to attract a younger (the next) generation buyer. 

After all... WE won't be buying that many more arrangers in OUR lifetime.  We in the USA saw this sort of thing with the TV show Dancing With the Stars.  A couple of years ago they stopped using traditional ballroom music (for the traditional ballroom dances) and replaced it with pop dance music.  I don't care for the change.  Instead of presenting younger people "tradition" and a bit of "culture", they decided to pander to them; to get them interested in watching the show.    :(

Back to Yamaha... and of coarse the "new" features on the S970 aren't really new... they are just re-cycled stuff from previous Yamaha keyboards.  I think we agree that Yamaha has to "go with the times" or loose market share.  As has been already stated more than once here... it's a challenge keeping everyone happy.

 :)

Regards,
Joe H
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 07:58:43 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Online EileenL

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #77 on: January 25, 2017, 06:36:20 AM »
Yes it is a big job keeping people happy. Here in the UK and I believe Germany the majority of Arranger keyboards are bought by the older retired person that now has time to enjoy playing music. Most would run a mile from Electronic Dance Music. Most youngsters today are not that interested in just sitting and playing music as they have there heads stuck in Tablets and Phones almost 24/7 or are out drinking themselves silly.
  It is very hard to keep everyone happy.

Offline fikke

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #78 on: January 25, 2017, 07:34:04 AM »
It's the same here in Belgium. Tyros players are mostly between 35 and .... but most players are older than 40.
Sometimes you see a younger person playing tyros but that is very rare.
The youth is not so interested in these kind of keyboards and it is also a question of price. 4000 euro for the young ones is a lot of money. Even for us it's an expensive hobby.

Offline mikf

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #79 on: January 25, 2017, 08:05:54 AM »
I do see a lot of young people interested in music. Go into any major musical gear store and the clientele is predominantly young. But they are not interested in these kind of keyboards. And its not just because they don't do what they want, - its because they are not used by their peers, they are not fashionable, and a bundle of other reasons. The arranger/home organ market is dominated by four kinds of people - those who decide later in life that they wished they had learned to play a musical instrument, those that can play a bit, and wish they could sound better, those that play well and just want a better fuller sounding instrument, and the one man band pros. Advanced functionality only matters to most of these people if it makes it sound better, or easier to play. I don't believe that it essential the keyboards be made more attractive to younger people by adding functionality aimed at them to maintain market. Younger people become older people eventually, and move into this market.
Mike 

Offline FredrikC

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #80 on: January 25, 2017, 08:15:26 AM »
Younger people become older people eventually, and move into this market.

I refuse.  I don't care what my identification says about my age, I'm still young.

(Now I'll just hobble over to the couch and fall asleep, after ordering some food off the senior menu.)
Fred

Yamaha: Tyros 5 76, DGX-650, YPT-320, DX-7, SY-99 (last two in attic)
Other: Kronos2 88, Fretted Clavichord, Upright Piano, eMu MPS (also in attic)
RCM Certificates: Advanced Rudiments
 

Offline Bachus

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #81 on: January 25, 2017, 08:45:05 AM »
Yes it is a big job keeping people happy. Here in the UK and I believe Germany the majority of Arranger keyboards are bought by the older retired person that now has time to enjoy playing music. Most would run a mile from Electronic Dance Music. Most youngsters today are not that interested in just sitting and playing music as they have there heads stuck in Tablets and Phones almost 24/7 or are out drinking themselves silly.
  It is very hard to keep everyone happy.

Currently yes.. old people...

But the future is with the young people, if they still  want to sell arrangers in 2 decades they need to make it more attractive to young people...

Funny thing is, do you jnow what is keeping young people away from buying anything arranger related?  Its not the arranger mechanic, but its the content of the styles... the current onboard styles dont do anything for the younger..

But as Joe says, an arranger can be a perfect instrument for EDM...


You would be surprised at the number of young people playing music, most of them guitar, bass, drums, but quite some have had a piano education...  if you want to catch them, build a stagepiano/arranger/synth and add styles for music they know... 
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.  I am wayting for the next box of chocolate the Yamaha Genos.

Admin of : www.keyszone.boards.net
 

Offline mikf

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #82 on: January 25, 2017, 02:31:19 PM »
Quote
if they still  want to sell arrangers in 2 decades they need to make it more attractive to young people...
Why?? The number of older people doesn't reduce over time. In fact the number of older people is increasing as time goes by because they live longer and the population is growing.
Mike

Online Joe H

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #83 on: January 25, 2017, 03:44:07 PM »
Why?? The number of older people doesn't reduce over time. In fact the number of older people is increasing as time goes by because they live longer and the population is growing.
Mike

I think the point you are missing Mike is that these younger people grew up on EDM.  You didn't and neither did I.  Most of the people here are wanting styles for late 1950s and 1960s music.  So what kind of styles do you think the 25 to 30 year old's will want 20 years from now? ...  I doubt that it will be jazz, country, polkas, or folk music for many if not most of them.  We tend to like what we like and grew up with.

But there are always exceptions to the rule!    ;D      ;D      ;D

Cheers,
Joe H
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 03:49:30 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Online maartenb

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #84 on: January 25, 2017, 11:32:37 PM »
Most youngsters today [...] have there heads stuck in Tablets and Phones almost 24/7 or are out drinking themselves silly.
Woah! These are very harsh words on "the youth". I hope you are just joking around!

These younger people grew up on EDM.
Only a part of the teenagers like this, not all. My ears were trained in the 70s and 80s. Back then hard rock was coming up and some liked it, but a big part favoured disco and pop. The same is true today. There is still pop music around that has a swing to it, a melody and beautiful chord progressions.

I am lucky that I have a teenager around that let's me listen to today's beautiful music. When he searches for chords on the Internet, he almost always finds them. This means people still like to play the music they listen to and take the time and effort to write down the chords they hear and post them. But he is the only one of his friends who is familiar with arrangers. When he wrote a song and recorded it with my Tyros 5, they asked him how he did all those instruments! His friends play guitar and piano.

What's my point? I don't know... I guess I'm just rambling...  ;)


Maarten
 

NETWORK1

  • Guest
Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #85 on: January 26, 2017, 01:22:39 AM »
Joe
I don't disagree with you, and I don't think the BBC did either. They were talking about the genesis being in non instrument playing creative people. But of course it evolved, and many top musicians became involved. I also appreciate that you have done some amazing things in style creation, and have demonstrated that the arranger could be a great tool in the creation of this style of music.

 But the current reality is that most people buying arrangers in the market are not into this, and also that most people into this type of music creation are not buying arrangers. I can appreciate that adding more facility to the arranger might actually change the buying habits, but unfortunately the very things that move the arranger in that direction might be a turn off for the typical arranger buyer. So that is a difficult balance for the manufacturers. It will be interesting to see how it evolves.   
Mike



This is the Reality , i agree.

It is frustrating to theoretically own a  FERRARI , but be CAPPED by a low speed limit restriction.

 

Online Jeff Hollande

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #86 on: January 26, 2017, 05:50:31 AM »
No Genos news during the Namm 2017 !!! No Yamaha keyboard news at all.

I wonder if Yamaha will tell us more during the Musik Messe 2017 ( Germany ) ?

Some members believe the Genos will not be available this year but early
2018.
Others are saying it will be available for sale in September 2017.

In 2010 T4, in 2013 T5.
In 2017 the Genos ? We do not know ... very strange !

Jeff

« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 05:56:32 AM by Jeff Hollande »
XGW - SONAR PLATINUM - CUBASE 8 WIN - MIXCRAFT8
 

Online EileenL

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #87 on: January 26, 2017, 06:07:47 AM »
Nothing strange really,
  As always Yamaha will disclose the details a short time before release.

Online Joe H

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #88 on: January 26, 2017, 07:56:20 AM »
Well, that's human nature for you...  we like what we like and think that what we like is the BEST... and if a majority happens to like the same thing(s) then that becomes the status quo.   After all... majority rules... right? (even when it's wrong)

But here's the thing... it's the people and ideas that are different that often end up making the world a more interesting and sometimes a better place (and sometimes not).  And sometimes that different thing gets embraced by the majority and then eventually becomes the status quo...   If we were all forced to listen to the same kind of music, it might be heaven for some and hell for others.

The fact that Yamaha added an arpeggiator, real-time Live Control and DJ styles tells me that they know something about the marketplace that most of us here DON"T.  Thank you Yamaha!

To each his own!

 ;)

Joe H
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 08:11:00 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Bachus

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #89 on: January 26, 2017, 08:08:53 AM »
No Genos news during the Namm 2017 !!! No Yamaha keyboard news at all.

I wonder if Yamaha will tell us more during the Musik Messe 2017 ( Germany ) ?

Some members believe the Genos will not be available this year but early
2018.
Others are saying it will be available for sale in September 2017.

In 2010 T4, in 2013 T5.
In 2017 the Genos ? We do not know ... very strange !

Jeff

Namm would be the worst time and place to present a new totl arranger, typicall NAMM visitors have no interest in arrangers at all..  and so does most of the reporting press..

Musikmesse is a whole different story
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.  I am wayting for the next box of chocolate the Yamaha Genos.

Admin of : www.keyszone.boards.net
 

Offline FredrikC

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #90 on: January 26, 2017, 08:13:02 AM »
Well, that's human nature for you...  we like what we like and think that what we like is the BEST... and if a majority happens to like the same thing(s) then that becomes the status quo.   After all... majority rules.

But here's the thing... it's the people and ideas that are different that often end up making the world a more interesting and sometimes better place.  And sometimes that different thing gets embraced by the majority and then eventually becomes the status quo...   But if we were all forced to listen to the same kind of music, it might be heaven for some and hell for others.

To each his own!

 ;)

Joe H

I don't think anyone is saying that different is wrong.  It's an economic argument.  In order to justify the business decision to make a "better" or "improved" or "more powerful" keyboard, the manufacturer needs to consider the cost of development and manufacturing compared to the potential sales at various price points.  If the new and improved keyboard will lose money for the manufacturer because the sales will be too low, then it won't be created.

Complications come about when you add to the calculation the sales levels at different price points, whether the sales of the new keyboard will cannibalize the sales of existing keyboards, whether some of the development costs can be used on lower level keyboards, and competitors response.

As for the inclusion of EDM styles in the keyboards, that's a simpler decision.  It doesn't require massive R&D, just style development.  Yamaha should be looking at adding it to the MusicSoft, and to future keyboards.  The issue is if they should drop some existing styles or make techno keyboards like the currently make keyboards tweaked for the middle eastern market or if adding styles to the lower end keyboards will make them too complicated to use.  (The cost of the additional memory needed to store the additional style shouldn't be an issue.  Memory is cheap.)  I'm not sure if there's enough of a market to make a higher end techno keyboard until they've built it up with lower level keyboards for new techno players.
Fred

Yamaha: Tyros 5 76, DGX-650, YPT-320, DX-7, SY-99 (last two in attic)
Other: Kronos2 88, Fretted Clavichord, Upright Piano, eMu MPS (also in attic)
RCM Certificates: Advanced Rudiments
 

Online Joe H

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #91 on: January 26, 2017, 08:31:56 AM »
I don't think anyone is saying that different is wrong.  It's an economic argument.  In order to justify the business decision to make a "better" or "improved" or "more powerful" keyboard, the manufacturer needs to consider the cost of development and manufacturing compared to the potential sales at various price points.  If the new and improved keyboard will lose money for the manufacturer because the sales will be too low, then it won't be created.

Complications come about when you add to the calculation the sales levels at different price points, whether the sales of the new keyboard will cannibalize the sales of existing keyboards, whether some of the development costs can be used on lower level keyboards, and competitors response.

As for the inclusion of EDM styles in the keyboards, that's a simpler decision.  It doesn't require massive R&D, just style development.  Yamaha should be looking at adding it to the MusicSoft, and to future keyboards.  The issue is if they should drop some existing styles or make techno keyboards like the currently make keyboards tweaked for the middle eastern market or if adding styles to the lower end keyboards will make them too complicated to use.  (The cost of the additional memory needed to store the additional style shouldn't be an issue.  Memory is cheap.)  I'm not sure if there's enough of a market to make a higher end techno keyboard until they've built it up with lower level keyboards for new techno players.

I wasn't talking about Yamaha in regards to "different"...  I was referring to some of the comments made here by forum members.  You have just made my point.  Yamaha doesn't take away anything from previous models, they just add content and new features, more memory, Voices, etc. I think Yamaha knows what they are doing.  They have created YEM and a new Expansion format for third party developers... which I see as a way for Yamaha to indirectly serve the market for "less popular" musical styles.

Good for them!

From my perspective, most of the so called new stuff on the PSRs, Tyros and now Montage are just re-cycled features from older keyboards.  Case in point is the Audio Link Multi pads and Audio Styles, Arpeggiator, Live Control, VCM effects, Ensemble, and Expansion Voice and Style Packs for starters.  All this stuff came from early XG sound modules and synths of the 1990s.  Namely the CS6X and XG sound modules, RM1x Remixer-Sequencer, as well as a bit borrowed from the SY77/SY99 and Motif (which borrowed from those earlier instruments.  So It's not likely that Yamaha has invested anything in R&D for the above mentioned "new features".  Most of the Montage features are not new either, even the Super Knob idea is not new at all, but it's a first effort to integrate this kind of feature into a performance keyboard.   

Adding DJ styles, more synth Voices, real-time controllers is a push to capture the next generation player.  Yamaha has been careful how they marketed the S970 by not over emphasizing the arpeggiator, Live Control or DJ styles.  This is not a "new" kind of keyboard, Yamaha is just expanding capabilities to play any and all kinds of music... taking nothing away, only adding more.  No one should feel threatened by this move, it just brings more and varied players and music into the fold.

:)

Joe H

« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 12:12:55 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Enildo

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #92 on: January 26, 2017, 12:33:08 PM »
I'm following the comments and I'm really enjoying it. One detail I'd like to see on yamaha was the "Auto-tune" in Vocal Harmony. Many styles and songs use this feature today. I've only seen it on korg's keyboards so far.
Psr s970 - The best PSR!
 

Offline J. Larry

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #93 on: January 26, 2017, 08:09:24 PM »
Two things: What are EDM styles?  Never heard of that title, name, or abbreviation.  Secondly, why can’t I purchase a high-end arranger, with no styles at all?  But, pay the dealer whatever it costs to load only the particular style families for my uses and interests.  My arrangers are loaded with styles never auditioned or used.  How well would a Sinatra tune go over during the dinner hour with a trance style, up loud?  They could subtract that stuff from my board and it never would be missed.
 

Online Roger Brenizer

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #94 on: January 26, 2017, 08:20:05 PM »
EDM is an acronym for Electronic Dance Music, J. Larry.
"Music Is My Life"
My best regards,
Roger

(The older I get...the better I used to be...LOL!!!)
Roger’s PSR Performer Page
 

Offline mikf

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #95 on: January 26, 2017, 08:31:01 PM »
EDM is electronic dance music. The term was coined initially I think as an umbrella term for the kind of innovative sampling and manipulation of percussive sound that DJs were doing. There really are no styles for EDM because the music is usually completely produced electronically for playback by DJs at rave type events rather than played. Now someone might disagree and say there are some styles available that could be used to make EDM, and that EDM is sometimes played (albeit in conjunction with a lot of pre produced stuff ) - they could be right as well - because in a sense there is no exact definition of what EDM is. And it is an evolving genre.
BTW - I don't see an arranger with styles left out costing any less. A bit like saying can I buy a cheaper radio because I only want to listen to half the stations.
Mike
 

Online Joe H

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #96 on: January 26, 2017, 11:36:17 PM »
Mike,

While there are so called DJ's out there who are the modern day "disc Jockey", there are hundreds of EDM artists who record and sing Club Dance and Trance songs. Some of today's DJs, like to put together a "Mix" and post them on Youtube.  They can run for an hour or two. These are often the "Best Of" programs.  Armen Van Buuren, Tiesto, DJ Encore, Gareth Emery, Dave Pearce, Above and Beyond, are just some to name a few.  These guys put together "Sets" made up of these hundreds of artists to play in dance clubs and they are also released as albums.

I believe EDM started in the late 1980's or early 1990's and was played on MIDI keyboards, but shifted to MIDI hardware music production boxes like the Yamaha RM1x and RS7000, and then moved to DAW software as the technology progressed with better sampling and greater processing power of the computer. I sometimes listen to the early "dance" music that was played on keyboards.  It can't compare to the current beautiful audio productions of the DAWs.

Yamaha actually DID produce EDM styles on those music production boxes and some on the DJX-II keyboard. The CS6x and AN1x were two other keyboards specifically targeting the EDM producer.  But the power of the computer has won out. If anyone could do it in the future... it would be Yamaha who builds a keyboard to produce 100% audio EDM on a keyboard.  I think the Montage is their first attempt at it.

While it's been slow going creating EDM styles for the S970 and Tyros, I'm slowly developing the techniques to achieve reasonable good results.  Arranger keyboards are well suited for this kind of music with eight-part styles and Multi Pads and registration banks to arranger a complete piece of music.  Since there are no really good EDM MIDI loops out there in the proper Yamaha style format, they have to be created manually one at a time.

And yes, it is a broad genre with MANY subcategories and cannot be easily defined.

Joe H
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 08:06:46 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline andyg

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #97 on: January 27, 2017, 01:29:50 AM »
Devil's Advocate type questions. Look that up if you're unfamiliar with the term, please!

If there was sufficient demand for EDM in the arranger keyboard market, to the extent that the cost of the work involved with its development and inclusion would be recouped, with interest(!) in terms of sales to a 'new' group of owners, do you not think that Yamaha would have thought of that and done it?

From a personal standpoint. Not one of the hundreds of youngsters I teach keyboard has been remotely interested in making this type of music. Listening to it, perhaps, but not making it. We have a lot of fun 'converting' older pieces of music into something more modern, for sure, but most of them are into a wide spectrum of music spanning the 1920s through to the 80s and 90s. Many of them are into Big Band, musicals, movie music as well as pop. But EDM, no. I've had music tech students doing it, of course, but even the colleges are getting picky these days. Just being a 'DJ' and being able to mix up loops in software etc won't cut it. They want students who know about music as well, grade 5 practical standard playing and a Grade 5 Theory pass required, as well as the computer stuff!

From this, I would deduce that EDM, whilst massively popular, isn't the kind of thing that the vast majority of arranger owners want right now. Will that change? I expect so, but I'd expect some instruments aimed directly at that market to come along to complement the mainstream market.

Will the arranger as we know it now suffer the same eventual demise as the home organ, from which it originally sprang (and helped kill off)? Quite possibly, but we're a long way from that.

Devil's advocate hat now removed. Discuss! :)
It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 

Online Jeff Hollande

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #98 on: January 27, 2017, 01:57:02 AM »

Are young keyboard Musicians really interested in Arranger Keyboards ?
Hard to believe.

Jeff
XGW - SONAR PLATINUM - CUBASE 8 WIN - MIXCRAFT8
 

Online Jeff Hollande

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #99 on: January 27, 2017, 02:00:17 AM »
GENOS QUESTIONS

Much more EDM Styles ?
Additional new Audio Styles ?

What about the editing applications of all these audio styles ?

More new Midi styles ?

Jeff
XGW - SONAR PLATINUM - CUBASE 8 WIN - MIXCRAFT8