Author Topic: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR  (Read 18966 times)

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NETWORK1

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Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #100 on: January 27, 2017, 02:20:20 AM »
YAMAHAs E.D.M. STYLES are listed as EURODANCE, so they do provide them.

Heres 3 on my tyros.

http://network1.x10.mx/bri/E.D.M.%20BEATS/

The strange thing is , that there is NO DANCE music created with  live ACOUSTIC instruments anymore
so your pretty much stuck with electronic drum machines and synthesizers
whether you like it or not.
so reallly ALL DANCE music is EDM now............... DJ COMPILATIONS are basically CROSSFADES  :)



====================================================

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_dance_music


 

Offline EileenL

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #101 on: January 27, 2017, 03:20:28 AM »
Personally I would not be sorry if they did away with Audio styles. I don't know many people that use them.
especially those who prefer to record in Midi before transferring to Audio. Add some effects to the drum kits and you have them sounding just as good if not better. If they make the audio drums editable then that may make a difference to some.

Offline andyg

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #102 on: January 27, 2017, 04:12:30 AM »
Are young keyboard Musicians really interested in Arranger Keyboards ?
Hard to believe.

Jeff

No, I often teach them from the age of 6 up to their late teens, when they go off to work or to Uni - though almost all of them still play the keyboard when they're home. Some of those taking exams have gone from Grade 1 up to, well, past Grade 8 as they've taken professional diplomas before they've left school. I currently have three who are on course for diplomas at 15 or 16 and a few more younger ones who might well go the same way - they're brilliant. Last term, every single one passed with over 95%, one of them getting full marks for all her arrangements.

And it's not just me, London College of Music and Trinity College London see hundreds of keyboard candidates every term, just here in the UK. (They also conduct exams world-wide.) And I should mention the handful of smaller colleges like Victoria College of music, who also run keyboard exams, though perhaps not to the same exacting standards as LCM and TCL. Add it up and that's a lot of youngsters learning to play arranger keyboard in the 'traditional' manner.

So believe it!

It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 

Offline EileenL

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #103 on: January 27, 2017, 07:46:18 AM »
Well that is reassuring Andy. My Daughter taught Music in schools but found the pupils did not really want to learn and preferred pushing the demo button or destroying the equipment. That meant that if any one was interested the rest of the class made it practically impossible for them. This used to upset her very much so she now just teaches French. 

Offline Joe H

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #104 on: January 27, 2017, 08:29:02 AM »
Devil's Advocate type questions. Look that up if you're unfamiliar with the term, please!

If there was sufficient demand for EDM in the arranger keyboard market, to the extent that the cost of the work involved with its development and inclusion would be recouped, with interest(!) in terms of sales to a 'new' group of owners, do you not think that Yamaha would have thought of that and done it?

From a personal standpoint. Not one of the hundreds of youngsters I teach keyboard has been remotely interested in making this type of music. Listening to it, perhaps, but not making it. We have a lot of fun 'converting' older pieces of music into something more modern, for sure, but most of them are into a wide spectrum of music spanning the 1920s through to the 80s and 90s. Many of them are into Big Band, musicals, movie music as well as pop. But EDM, no. I've had music tech students doing it, of course, but even the colleges are getting picky these days. Just being a 'DJ' and being able to mix up loops in software etc won't cut it. They want students who know about music as well, grade 5 practical standard playing and a Grade 5 Theory pass required, as well as the computer stuff!

From this, I would deduce that EDM, whilst massively popular, isn't the kind of thing that the vast majority of arranger owners want right now. Will that change? I expect so, but I'd expect some instruments aimed directly at that market to come along to complement the mainstream market.

Will the arranger as we know it now suffer the same eventual demise as the home organ, from which it originally sprang (and helped kill off)? Quite possibly, but we're a long way from that.

Devil's advocate hat now removed. Discuss! :)

Well we all agree there are not a lot of EDM styles out there.   But where are the classical, folk, funk. jazz, reggae, and hundreds of other musical styles played by people around the world.  We will never see them produced due to the  "return on investment" business principle.  That's why some of us keep asking for professional level Style Creator software.

On another issue in response to the many comments here...  "birds of a feather flock together".  People behave the same.  People have also been likened to sheep.  And how do those creatures behave?  One jumps and they all jump.   People also behave the same. (in an attempt to be "normal")

But some people ( a very small percentage) think "outside the box".  I think Yamaha employs both "mainstream" thinkers and those who think outside the box.  Borrowing from each camp insures a certain level of business success.  To embrace one camp only ultimately result in the demise of the company.

Yamaha is an amazing company, started by a person who LOVED music and wanted to share that love of music with others.  I believe that is still the driving force of the huge corporation today.  The corporation does what it does very well. Who else has the capacity to reach so many countries and cultures worldwide but Yamaha?

Anyone interested in understanding the human condition on a deeper level should read a book titled:  Propaganda & the ethics of persuasion. written by Randal Marlin,  Canadian scholar who taught ethics classes at the university level.

It will give you something to think about.

When it comes to music, majority doesn't rule.  Music is a spiritual force... not of this world, that brings joy to billions of people... whatever their flavor of music is. Enjoy what you like and appreciate the diversity of music in the world even if you don't care to listen to it all. It brings great pleasure to the human spirit everywhere.

 ;)

Joe H

« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 08:42:35 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline FredrikC

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #105 on: January 27, 2017, 08:49:49 AM »
When it comes to music, majority doesn't rule.  Music is a spiritual force... not of this world, that brings joy to billions of people... whatever their flavor of music is. Enjoy what you like and appreciate the diversity of music in the world even if you aren't inclined to listen to it all.

None of which will affect Yamaha unless they have a path to profit.  When Yamaha (or any company) is privately held, then the owners can decide whether they want to make money, or if they're trying to accomplish something else (societal good?).  However, once the company becomes a publicly held company, it is answerable to the stock holders.  And generally that means that it must make a profit.  Otherwise the stockholders vote out the board of directors, elect a new board of directors, who then fire current management.

Earlier you said that professional level style creation software would be a good thing.  THAT I can agree with.  Even if Yamaha itself doesn't want to support a certain style of music because they don't think there's enough of a market, that doesn't mean that a smaller company won't do it.  And if the smaller company finds a market niche that Yamaha isn't aware of (or has undervalued), the new styles available for that niche may drive sales of Yamaha keyboards, too.  Yamaha won't make money on the styles, but will make money on the additional keyboard sales.  So I think that such software is in Yamaha's interest to create.

Heck, they could sell it at two levels.  First, the hobbyist level, which would be real cheap.  Second, the professional level, which could create copy protected style libraries that the companies could sell.  Yamaha could even expand the MusicSoft site to act as a central store for style developers, similar to Google Play or the Apple Store.  Just cut themselves in for 20%.  Does Google or Apple charge for the software needed to create apps?  Or do they make money on the sale of apps created by others.
Fred

Yamaha: Tyros 5 76, DGX-650, YPT-320, DX-7, SY-99 (last two in attic)
Other: Kronos2 88, Fretted Clavichord, Upright Piano, eMu MPS (also in attic)
RCM Certificates: Advanced Rudiments
 

Offline Joe H

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #106 on: January 27, 2017, 10:14:16 AM »
None of which will affect Yamaha unless they have a path to profit

Fortunately Yamaha also cares about MUSIC.

Earlier you said that professional level style creation software would be a good thing.  THAT I can agree with...   So I think that such software is in Yamaha's interest to create.

It's already being done

Heck, they could sell it at two levels.  First, the hobbyist level, which would be real cheap.  Second, the professional level, which could create copy protected style libraries that the companies could sell  Yamaha could even expand the MusicSoft site to act as a central store for style developers, similar to Google Play or the Apple Store.  Just cut themselves in for 20%.  Does Google or Apple charge for the software needed to create apps?  Or do they make money on the sale of apps created by others.

Well that's already being done by Yamaha too and software by Easy Sounds in Germany. But there will eventually be more individuals and companies doing that.  As I stated earlier,  I think with the development of YEM, it is Yamaha's intent to encourage third party development because Yamaha will never produce a lot of EDM, Jazz, Classical, Big Band or any other music style that is not part of the large pop culture... as you state for profit reasons.

I'm OK with all of that.

Joe H
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 10:15:33 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline maartenb

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #107 on: January 28, 2017, 11:48:50 AM »
We have a lot of fun 'converting' older pieces of music into something more modern, for sure, but most of them are into a wide spectrum of music spanning the 1920s through to the 80s and 90s. Many of them are into Big Band, musicals, movie music as well as pop. But EDM, no.
I think it's a good idea to have some EDM styles in an arranger: it's just fun to play with. You don't have to be a musician to have fun with it. Just use single finger chord mode, press some random keys for the arpeggiator and it will sound good.

It will probably be the parents that buy an arranger, and for their children it might be a way to get interested in arrangers!

It's the same with the demo button. It's the least used button on my arranger, and Yamaha keep on insisting to have a demo button. Why? Because it helps sales. EDM might help future sales, when the teenagers grow up.


Maarten
 

Offline Enildo

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #108 on: January 28, 2017, 01:12:09 PM »
Very important is the issue of "EDM", but the discourses about Genos are revolving around whether to have "EDM" or not ... Whether "EDM" is good or not ... They are forgetting to discuss other important resources. For example, I would like Genos to have more "Knobs" than the s970 and to assign other functions. I also wanted a "VH3", more precise (like The TCHelicon nos Korgs) and with other parameters like "Auto-tune" that is very used today. Hug to everyone!
Psr s970 - The best PSR!
 

Offline Joe H

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #109 on: January 28, 2017, 04:46:57 PM »
Enildo,

I suspect there will be more "controllers" like 4 to 8 knobs  or sliders, a ribbon controller, and more options with the foot pedal assignments.  Also likely will be more Insert DSPs.  If this ends up being the case, we will then see lesser type upgrades with the following PSR arranger. 

I wish Yamaha would release a TOTL PSR model without speakers and offer more controllers like we are talking about for the GENOS.  In other words a scaled back Tyros / GENOS.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Online Bachus

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #110 on: January 29, 2017, 01:43:27 AM »
Enildo,

I suspect there will be more "controllers" like 4 to 8 knobs  or sliders, a ribbon controller, and more options with the foot pedal assignments.  Also likely will be more Insert DSPs.  If this ends up being the case, we will then see lesser type upgrades with the following PSR arranger. 

I wish Yamaha would release a TOTL PSR model without speakers and offer more controllers like we are talking about for the GENOS.  In other words a scaled back Tyros / GENOS.

Joe H
4 knobs limitless encoders like on the montage, and improving the way to assign things to the sliders.. that would be my guess...  we can only hope for a ribbon controller..  and offcorse room for 2 volume pedals..
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.  I am wayting for the next box of chocolate the Yamaha Genos.

Admin of : www.keyszone.boards.net
 

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #111 on: February 09, 2017, 08:45:18 AM »
Personally I do not like the idea of audio styles..  Yet, it seems to be a step the business is moving towards that.. The more everyone can sound like everyone else..

However I would not begrudge those who want to walk that path.. When first got a synthesizer, back in 1970,  I got a lot of flack form older musicians.. In fact I was not allowed to join the musician's Union.. I had to list myself as a piano player.. I got tons of studio work, offering 'substitute strings' for rock ballads..  Of course they sounded nothing like real strings, but fulfilled the function of them and cost 1/10 the price.

 Broadway theaters fought for years to keep synths out of the orchestra pits..   Dj's went thru a similar situation..  Anger and disgust, that a guy who spins records, could 'create music' from other's records.. 

For many years 'keyboard arrangers' were cheating.. We were not real musicians, we are stealing work away from 'real musicians'.  But when the total bottom of the music business fell out, when 95% of live band music died in NYC, because of expense..  People with keyboard arrangers, swooped in, and started getting work in tons of restaurants, bars, etc..  Attitudes changed.

The artististic merits of various music creation is moot..  What ever makes $$$ is valid.. or in our case, gives us enjoyment..  We are seeing the same process with 'Siri'.. You don't need to learn all this information yourself, use technology..  Each of us, will find the method that works for us.. 

Some only want to use a keyboard.. Others want to use computers and software.. . There is a trend among some of our current 'serious composers'. They no longer actually play an instrument. They have studied, the ranges and articulations of instruments, and invest in complex and many 'sound libraries'.. A lot of the libraries are quite good.. and only a really accomplished musician (or one familiar with the kontakt libraries). realize these recordings are not actually 'real' performers..   

This is an art form in itself.. and ultimately because of $$$ generating, just as valid as any other kind of musicianship. 
 

Offline J. Larry

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #112 on: February 09, 2017, 08:15:17 PM »
I find it interesting that each of us have wishes and desires for new features and directions wed like to see in new arrangers.  Yet, were stuck with whatever Yamaha presents us with when/if a new product appears.  Are we just whistling in the wind?  Or, might Yamaha be listening and responding accordingly?   
 

Offline Joe H

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #113 on: February 09, 2017, 08:36:39 PM »
J. Larry,

Yamaha is listening.  I think Yamaha would be better to release an audio style arrange like the Audya.  They may very well find audio styles are NOT embraced as much as they would like them to be.   Maybe ditto for the DJ styles. (what DJ plays that kind of music?)

Your question has been asked many times now.  Only Yamaha knows how decisions are made within the company.  Yamaha has produced many innovations over the years, but they would be careless to ignore the interests of the consumer.

Joe H

Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Online Bachus

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #114 on: February 11, 2017, 01:29:30 AM »
J. Larry,

Yamaha is listening.  I think Yamaha would be better to release an audio style arrange like the Audya.  They may very well find audio styles are NOT embraced as much as they would like them to be.   Maybe ditto for the DJ styles. (what DJ plays that kind of music?)

Your question has been asked many times now.  Only Yamaha knows how decisions are made within the company.  Yamaha has produced many innovations over the years, but they would be careless to ignore the interests of the consumer.

Joe H

Actually the strength of audya does not come from the fact that their styles are audio.... but from the arrangements and musical vallue of those styles...

From my workstation vie won things... i like edditing things... and nothing is less editable then an audio track...  to me its still a marketing hype..

Real live played auio drums...   well, use a drummer on a midi drum and you get the same live played drum track, and you can still edit it...
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.  I am wayting for the next box of chocolate the Yamaha Genos.

Admin of : www.keyszone.boards.net
 

Offline mus07

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #115 on: April 20, 2017, 10:46:28 PM »
Yes - 100% agree Bachus
I have played drums for many years and currently in a 22-piece big band - I am fanatical about drum sounds, tone etc... and, as yet, no digital representation of acoustic drums is totally acceptable to me. However the "live audio" drum tracks on the Tyros so far does less for me than MIDI tracks. With MIDI tracks nowadays you can edit the DSP, tone, and many other components of each individual drum if you want, so, don't like that snare drum sound? then change it - lots of options - build your own kit if you can be bothered and have the time - the "live" audio tracks leave you totally locked in and using maybe even a drum sound you don't like.

Agree on the Audya issue - they did an excellent job musically.

Cheers
Pete  :)

Offline voodoo

Re: INCREDIBLE GENOS RUMOR
« Reply #116 on: April 21, 2017, 12:26:46 AM »
Real live played audio drums...   well, use a drummer on a midi drum and you get the same live played drum track, and you can still edit it...

And you can change the tempo without restrictions with midi drums. I don't like the audio drums, because they sound ugly when the tempo is reduced to much.
Yamaha PSR-S970
Nord Electro 5D