Author Topic: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970  (Read 6043 times)

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Online gerard

Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« on: October 07, 2016, 09:51:43 AM »
You don't know how good something is until you try something else and doesn't meet your expectations.

I had a Tyros 5-76 and sold it and got a PSR S970.

I saw a lot of hype about the Korg PA4x so, I spent approximately 40 hours reading the manual, looking at Youtube vidoes and going on the Korg forum.

I go a deal on the PA4X and PAAS speaker unit and received it.

The onboard sounds and styles sounded great.

I sing over 400 songs, and have over 200 song specific styles done for the Yamaha.

So, I started to convert them using Styleworks for styles.

I also used the MIDI TO SONG CONVERTOR on the PA4X to create styles like I did for the PSR.

None, I repeat none, came close to the sound I got from the PSR.

I took a couple of styles I converted for the PA4X and tweaked them, looking at sounds from the PSR and using the similar sounds on the PA4x.

They still were not as good and that was after spending over an hour on each style.

Bottom line, I am now happier than ever I have a Yamaha.

Maybe if I was new to arrangers, and did not have so many songs done for the Yamaha, it might be different.

I won't even go into the problems I had selecting sounds for their version of OTS.


Regards,
Gerard

Offline Gloria

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2016, 10:01:47 AM »

Gerard - thank you very much for sharing your experience with us; you have really put in some research.  Happy Playing!

Gloria
"Music is the Universal Language"
PSR Performer Page
 

Offline Gunnar Jonny

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2016, 10:44:51 AM »
....... Maybe if I was new to arrangers, and did not have so many songs done for the Yamaha, it might be different...

I think you say it well in the line above.
If your work was done at another brand from the beginning, you would most likely meet the same challenges when try to convert and adapt you work to a new brand.
Whatever you convert from one brand to another, it's a huge work and take a lot of time to make it sound reasonable good and playable.
Styleworks is a good starter for raw convert, but after that the hard work starts......

When or if I buy a PA4X, it's not to make anything sound like my T4, not at all. Hopefully PA4X sounds as good in real life as the videos and demoes does. :)
Cheers & Happy Playing.  :)
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)
 

Offline Roger Brenizer

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2016, 11:26:57 AM »
Hi Gerard,

Thank you for the review.  I enjoyed reading your heartfelt comments.
"Music Is My Life"
My best regards,
Roger

(The older I get...the better I used to be...LOL!!!)
Rogerĺs PSR Performer Page
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2016, 04:04:56 AM »
I think when you go for a different keyboard you have to start afresh with what you have and what you can do on that particular one. This is what I did a few years back. I joined a Korg site where members shared there styles and registrations created on a Korg and you only got to share if you had also contributed some of your styles and settings. It worked very well but in the end I just did not like the operating system and the harsh sound.
  Was so pleased to get back to my Yamaha and the ease of setting it up.

Offline keyplayer

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2016, 04:24:49 AM »
I agree with Bachus, I like being able to set up easily and save what I've done and edit it later if I feel the need. Also, this forum is so helpful and friendly, I would miss all the advice and occasionally being able to contribute.
Having said that - we regularly have somebody playing a Korg PA3X for a dance we go to and he does make it sound good!
Pam.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2016, 04:28:58 AM by keyplayer »
 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2016, 09:11:26 AM »
Hi Gerard,

I see what you mean.  ;)

Converted styles always create many, many problems.
Most kb players are very disappointed after a conversion.
Why ?
The answer is very simple.
Korg kbs need original Korg soft and ( especially newer ) Yamaha kbs need Yamaha soft made by or for Yamaha only.
Both manufacturers are building great instruments but their software structure is completely different.
That particular aspect creates problems. 

That is my experience since 2001.

Best regards, Jeff

 


 



DAWS MAC & WIN
 

angelonyc

  • Guest
Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2016, 07:19:14 AM »
I have no doubt, as to the validity to your research and final impressions.. And I thank you for your observations, Over the years, I have tried about every brand of keyboard, every DAW, etc. As we musically mature, we find a process, and hardware, software that suits our needs the best..

One issue that came up for me, as I tried new hardware, software..  Brand A is NOT Brand B..  And you cannot approach it that way,  it will mostly lead to frustration.. You have to approach them as individuals.. Just like a VW and top of the line Mercedes both have 4 wheels and get you from point A to point B.. They are totally different animals, you cannot begin to compare them, Each has their advantage, price, milage, performance, power, comfort, etc.

I tried out a PA4X at B&H Photo here in NYC..  It sounded horrendous.. I was shocked.. I went home did a lot more 'googling'.. then realized that the problem was all the headphones for demoing in the store are real crap, cause they don't want lose headphones.  Watched more online videos.. Yes, the sound is noticeably different.. and of course the operating system...Some EQing and know twiddling could bring the two more instruments closer in line..

As for operating systems, you just have to bite the bullet, and master it.. Now I understand you have a system that works fine for you, and you need to get the Korg, under control..  I have been thru similar situations with different hardware modules, software..  Sometimes I can get things to work, other times, I can't and I eventually find a system, or I move onto something else..

Those of us doing something a certain way, have found the best solution to make progress, and it makes no sense, to upset the applecart..  I've used Logic Pro as a DAW for 36 years.  Now it is drastically different from what it was when it started, but I have been able to keep up with MOST of the changes it made..  I don't use all the features, so don't use them.. I check out forums to keep abreast of things happening with Logic, and have learnt a lot. When I find Cubase, Nuendo, or Ableton, has some new killer features.. I don't have the $$$, time or patience to learn that whole body of knowledge..  I'm content with my current method of processing things.. Some other producer, or studio owner, will have to purchase these products and become adept at them to stay in business.

Just as what you are doing is the best approach for you.. I appreciate and get it.. Although I think I'd like to get a PA4X, I might not, part in thanx to your findings.   

PSR Tutorial  is one of the BEST site for learning..  I am totally loving all this discussion about the PA4X, .. I would like something else to complement the sounds of the Tyros.. 

In the past I've used a Motif XS rack, a Roland Intrega 7, and KONTAKT libraries libraries, and really love the huge variety of sounds available. An instrument patch from a different manufacture, can really enhance your overall finished songs.. And sometimes I'll go thru a dozen piano sounds, and then end  up using the Tyros.  Because it just 'sits' in the mix better than all the other pianos I have.. 

For others here, all they need is a Tyros, or 970, or what ever.. I appreciate your efforts, and the others here. Because everyone is reasonably stating their observations, without 'attacking' the competition..  No 'hotheads' here..  I think it goes a long way towards others considering future purchases

And if Yamaha started a 'buy in' program.. That is give us a chunk of $$$ now, and you give you a deal on future Tyros's (or whatever name it might be).. I've probably buy in.. I started with a Tyros 3, and have faithfully bought the next model, the moment it became available in my area.. I can honestly say, it is my favorite keyboard all all the keyboards, I have ever owned..  (and my ARP2600, long gone was my 2nd most favorite instrument)..

I love this website and the dedicated people here.

Offline guitpic1

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2016, 12:30:40 AM »
I have and gig with both the PA 4X and S970.  Both are excellent IMHO.  My PA 4X sees more gigging time. My S970 is more for 'fun' play for me.

 :)
guitpic1

PA 4X, S970, DGX650, JBL Eon One, SSV.3
 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2016, 12:56:44 AM »
Hi G,

I think you have a nice combination of keyboards !
Congratulations, Jeff
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline guitpic1

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2016, 04:46:51 AM »
Hi G,

I think you have a nice combination of keyboards !
Congratulations, Jeff

Tx Jeff,

The advantages of each are very apparent when I own and use both, with the PA 4X now being my main keyboard.

Yamaha is very good.  I've owned 5 PSR models(PSR 343, 710, 750, 950 and 970) plus a Tyros 4.  I sold everything to friends with the exception of the PSR 343 and S970.

But I won't be going back to a TOTL Yamaha as my main gigging keyboard unless
Yamaha creates a Tyros level arranger with all the advantages that the PA 4X has.

Take care

Rog L
guitpic1

PA 4X, S970, DGX650, JBL Eon One, SSV.3
 

Offline dihelson

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2016, 07:22:03 PM »
You don't know how good something is until you try something else and doesn't meet your expectations.


Regards,
Gerard

Gerald, a new instrument deserves much time, specially a Korg PA4x. See, I use Tyros 5, and I didn┤t master all possibilities.
There┤s many good things in both instruments, and you can┤t measure them by a simple characteristic. It┤s good to have both.
Every instrument has good and bad things.

Regards
Time doesn┤t matter. What matter most is how you live your little minutes. You┤re unique amongst 7 billion people living on this planet. Live well !
 

Online gerard

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2016, 07:05:41 AM »
My original post said the Korg PA4x sounds and styles are great!

It is a very good arranger.

If I never had an arranger before I would get the PA4X.

I went from a Tyros 4 to Tyros 5-76 to PSR S970 which I use with an 88 key midi controller.

I have over 400 songs that I sing and many, many of the styles I use are song specific.

My point is, to convert all the songs/styles I have now, would require 100's of hours to work well on the PA4X.

I did use EMC Styleworks to go from Yamaha to Korg styles.

Each conversion would require a lot of tweaking to sound good on the PA4x.

Bottom line, having a Yamaha arranger already, it works well for me, and again, if I did not have an arranger keyboard, I would go with the PA4.

Gerard

Offline pjd

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2016, 08:33:09 AM »
Hi --

Gerard makes an excellent point. In my own case, I've spent hundreds of hours pulling together tracks, registrations and styles with customized OTS for 150+ songs. This was an enormous amount of work.

Even though the tracks are MP3, conversion to a new system is still a big hurdle. Every minute spent on transition is a lost minute of playing time. Thank goodness that I'm happy with an S950 and I now spend most of my time playing -- the ultimate mood enhancer!

All the best -- pj
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2016, 04:14:28 AM »
Yes Korg are not the easiest of beasts to tame and I still much prefer the sound of my Tyros 5 and ease of use.

Offline DonM

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2016, 08:18:44 AM »
I have had virtually every Yamaha arranger since they started making them, skipping a few models of course.  I've also had Rolands, Ketrons, Korgs and even a Casio.
The PA4X is the answer to my dreams.  It has everything I need, including size, sounds, styles, vocal harmonizer, etc.....but most important it is SO easy to play in real time, with all the controls, programmable and otherwise.  The touch screen is wonderful, and the price point is well below the Tyros line.  One of the most important features is the fantastic Songbook feature. The key touch is fantastic, and it has been totally reliable after using it several nights a week for close to a year now.  Korg periodically issues FREE new styles and sounds, available to download, or sometimes included in factory updates.
Before that I had a PA3X, side by side with PSR S970.  The 3X was really great, but the 4X is a major step up, with new sound processor, screen and even better operating system.
Once you get through the learning process the OS is far easier to navigate than the Yamahas.  Of course you will have to put in some work to learn it, just as you would if you came to Yamaha from another brand.
Now, just because it is ideal for me, doesn't mean it is for you!  I rely on my arranger to make my living and have for MANY years.  Not a night passes that I don't get compliments on the great realistic sound.  Of course I got the same comments when playing ALL the other brands, so, consider the source!  :)
The good news is that we have so many great choices!
DonM
 
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Offline terryB

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2016, 01:02:18 AM »
This is getting tiresome
 

Offline guitpic1

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2016, 02:31:59 AM »
Yes Korg are not the easiest of beasts to tame and I still much prefer the sound of my Tyros 5 and ease of use.

I went from using a Tyros 4(occasionally S970) for gigs to a PA 4X for gigs.  In many ways the PA 4X is easier to use.

Both Korg and Yammie make excellent arrangers.

 :)
guitpic1

PA 4X, S970, DGX650, JBL Eon One, SSV.3
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2016, 04:40:42 AM »
Yes it is always down to personnel choice and what we want from our keyboard.
I started of many years ago with a Hammond organ. I then went to Tecnics  and Yamaha and even had a Lowery. Then keyboards started to come out that did most things an organ would but they were easier to take out. I started off with the Yamaha 6700 and for its time it was brilliant and the sound was to die for. I believe it was around this time that Yamaha also part owned Korg and shared the same factory at Milton Keynes.
  I had Tecnics Keyboards, Roland, and later Korg. Did a lots of tweaking with them too. I just did not like the way you had to store the styles on the hard drive on Korg Maybe they have altered it now. Also the sequencer did not feel so user friendly. The way you had to shard a button for selecting Performance with the voice button was not good.If you pressed it by accident and then thought you were changing a registration you would go into the voice section and of course it did not sound good. Styles were not as plentiful as Yamaha so II eventually went back to Yamaha and have not regretted it one bit.
 As I say , at the end of the day it is what we personally feel happy with 

Offline DonM

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2016, 03:47:31 PM »
Eileen, indeed they have addressed those situations on the PA4X.  They no longer use Performances--everything works through the Songbook and Lists.  And now you can play styles directly from USB. 
Sequencer has been updated as well, and the Chord Sequencer has been improved so that sequences can now be saved to Songbook entries.  One-push operation!
I think the competition makes both brands better!
DonM
 

Offline DonM

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2016, 03:49:06 PM »
This is getting tiresome
When I find a thread that doesn't hold my interest, I stop reading it!
I feel this one has been a useful exchange of information, so will follow it for a while.

Offline joca

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2016, 04:45:17 AM »
I own a PX4 76 and I did own a PSR950 Yes the PX4 is a very complex bit of kit extremely versatile. I always got on well with the Korg OS but not too well with the PSR however for all the goods and bads for each I have never really been fond of the Korg organs as an organist for many years with a Hammond + others my main likes is surprise surprise organs. Now I am not going to sit in judgement for either because they are completely different but, I will say that when the 4x came out something changed and took me by surprise because my knowledge of the Korg OS had changed so I struggled a bit with the new terminology. I quite liked the organs that came with the PSR950 and am in the first thought processes of the PSR970 so a question what is the general feeling of the organs in the 970 same/different/good bad/ BTW the 4X 76 weighs a bundle.

Offline EileenL

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2016, 05:37:24 AM »
Hi Joca,
  The beauty of a 970 is that you can add additional voices to it. I love the Blackpool organ sounds and a firm called Total Transformation Technology have produced a couple of packs one being Klaus and the other Theatre and they sound great on the 970. The  onboard organs are very good and can be tweaked to your liking and saved as user voices. I am very pleased with my 970 and I also have Tyros 5.

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2017, 02:33:10 PM »
I have the PA 900 and the Musikant software, what is much typical German pop music, but also much European and USA stuff. So I could play much of my repertoire on the 900 alone, but I prefer my Yamaha, because my style collection - purchased much Yamaha styles from Styles & Music (= d-o-o), Hage, Yamaha and top-styles.de and from a wonderful website, where they provide factory styles of all Yamaha keyboards... guess what  ;)
Most style companies ignored Korg, they counted on Technics and when Technics was discontinued, they didn't begin to support Korg.
So beside the free downloads by Korg (that aren't really good) and software packages like the Musikant, there are no additional styles. Maybe I could use the assembly function, to get some additional stuff, but my Korg is fit for a gig, if I want.
My initial planning was, to use the PSR S 970 and PA 900 as twin set and to connect both via MIDI, so I have from each keyboard access to every sound of both.
But I had no opportunities yet, where I could use a twin set. There where space restrictions or in one case I had to play in 2 different rooms and prepared in each room a set up with one keyboard and one speaker system.
I am satisfied with my both keyboards, in the Yamaha, I have a nice mix of 3 expansion packs, some free stuff, like Tyros 3 custom voices or free expansion packs.
The only thing I dislike is the lack of Audio styles. This feature is implemented only halfheartedly, few styles, I could purchase 5 more styles, but only two of them are useful.
So I think about Ketron SD 40, but I heard statements, that Ketron's use to have bugs and may crash. Another challenge would be, that the Ketron has a special kit, what sounds like audio drums, but there is no chance to change it's mapping, so I had to modify all styles and no idea, what tool could help me. One more challenge, that this module may not allow to change style variations by program changes, as possible in Korg or Roland.
So I'm not sure.
 

Offline adrianed

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2017, 03:17:49 PM »
Well said DonM,

Cant imagine anyone persevering to read a long post if it is boring them  ::)

I wouldn't mind trying a PX4 Korg  just out of interest of playing something different for a change

Looking at my T5 it looks too fragile to be used as a full on professional keyboard and so far I have not seen anyone playing one in any musical event

Adrian

Offline Lloyd E

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2017, 04:41:18 AM »
I have had Yamaha keyboards for years and loved them. I got interested in the Korg Pa4 76 note board and finally sold my T5
for the Korg. The Korg is nice, compact and very tweakable but when it comes to comparing them I still like the Yamaha for
styles and excellent voices.  When the T6 (or whatever name they will call it) I will be very interested.

It boils down to personnel preferences and so this is mine. I'm sure the Yamaha people will agree with me.   Lloyd
Music is the way to go
 

Offline malcolm4729

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2017, 03:29:16 AM »
Hi Gerard,i too sold my T5 for a Pa4X, its good but I think the T5 has the edge.
Two weeks ago I went out and bought a PSR S770, for a midrange keyboard its great.
PA4X or PSR S770 I am leaning toward the 770.
Rgz Malcolm.
 

Offline voodoo

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2017, 04:44:56 AM »
Two weeks ago I went out and bought a PSR S770, for a midrange keyboard its great.

Excellent choice. The S770 offers many T5 features for a very low price. The S970 has some more features (for example the 512 MB flash ROM), but for nearly the double price.

Uli
Yamaha PSR-S970 (sold)
Yamaha Genos (ordered)
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline voodoo

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2017, 04:48:37 AM »
What surprised me about Korg PA4x is that the top layer of the keyboard is just as easilly accesible as the The Tyros. ...

Thank you for your objective and fair comparison. The next money will be spent wisely. ;)

I have tried a PA600/PA900. I didn't like the usage concept as compared to the Yamahas, but some of the sounds were very impressive.

Uli
Yamaha PSR-S970 (sold)
Yamaha Genos (ordered)
Nord Electro 5D
 
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Online Joe H

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2017, 07:34:20 AM »
Excellent choice. The S770 offers many T5 features for a very low price. The S970 has some more features (for example the 512 MB flash ROM), but for nearly the double price.

Uli

In addition to the 512MB of expansion memory... the S970 also includes the VH2, VGA connector, more styles and 160 more Voices. (and I'm sure I missed a couple of other things)

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline voodoo

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2017, 07:44:36 AM »
In addition to the 512MB of expansion memory... the S970 also includes the VH2, VGA connector, more styles and 160 more Voices. (and I'm sure I missed a couple of other things)

Joe H

Yes of course. More voices, new DSP programs with GUI, audio styles and so on. ;) But for me the 512 MB are the bigest fun factor. ;)

Uli
Yamaha PSR-S970 (sold)
Yamaha Genos (ordered)
Nord Electro 5D
 

Online Joe H

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2017, 07:59:52 AM »
But for me the 512 MB are the biggest fun factor. ;)

Uli

Me too!

Regards,
Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline mikf

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2017, 08:23:30 AM »
Far from being tiresome, this is exactly the kind of thread that is most interesting on this forum. Viewpoints shared in a respectful and informative way.
As arranger 'investors' we are all interested in what else is out there and how other people like us have found it.

Mike

Offline Lloyd E

Re: Tried a Korg PA4X, Glad I Kept MY PSR S970
« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2017, 04:50:17 AM »
I also sold my T5-76 and bought a Korg Pa4X. After a difficult learining of the OS I found  that Steve from R.I. had great knowledge of the Korg and got me
through the specifics.  I played the Korg for 11 months before deciding that the T5 was still the best sounds for me and also the styles. Everyone hears a
different drummer and there are many who love the Korg but it just seems to be missing something for me.

I have recently sold my Pa4X and ordered a T5-76 from Frank Ventrasca of Audioworks (My one and only dealer).   Lloyd
Music is the way to go