Topic: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!

[Fred Smith]

Which they will probably do starting with the Genos.. doesnt cost much to implement these kinds of features they allready developed..  and it indeed would add something for everyone

Well, not everyone. It wouldn't do anything for those of us who never use the feature.

Fred

[metcam]

Well, not everyone. It wouldn't do anything for those of us who never use the feature.

Fred

Which there is some futures  You use and we use never.

That why  Yamaha is GLOBE company not just for individuals or small groups.

Regards

[daliboraleksov]

Hello Gary! It really is a feature that does not have much use, but in some songs can make life easier for the arranger. Listen to the introduction of this song. It is much easier to change the notes (flute) with the portamento triggered. Hug!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feBKqSnDoHg

I understand what you are saying, but I must say that I do not agree with you, sorry

I think that mono legato + (fingered) portamento OR basically having portamento GLIDE configurable is ESSENTIAL feature for ALL "balkan"-like music types.

Take a look at any of the videos from here:
https://www.youtube.com/user/juzisound/videos
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Eu2VRMlTdk

and you will see what I'm talking about.

For example I understand that you probably do not "understand" or "like" this type of music but trust me when I say that this feature is MANDATORY for everyone on BALKAN/ORIENTAL area.

for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U_qbepJ1LY
OR even better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh1NqlJQcXQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyPLVvPX_z4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyidr9_KsEg

This is what I'm referring to, and until yamaha makes this happen on TYROS keyboards really small number of people in Balkan will play it. Maybe those who play "foreign" music...but for "our" national weddings etc... no go

ALSO, if you guys think that BALKAN is small market I must say you are sooooo wrong, but OK I understand that this is not useful for those who do not use it of course, but if they think World Wide why is this ignored in their THE BEST ARRANGERs and again is available in basically ALL yamaha workstations (non arranger keyboards)

Balkan
about 55 million people
Bulgaria, Macedonia, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia, Romania, Italia, Albania, Greece, Turkey, etc..

[Enildo]

I understand what you are saying, but I must say that I do not agree with you, sorry

I think that mono legato + (fingered) portamento OR basically having portamento GLIDE configurable is ESSENTIAL feature for ALL "balkan"-like music types.

Take a look at any of the videos from here:
https://www.youtube.com/user/juzisound/videos
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Eu2VRMlTdk

and you will see what I'm talking about.

For example I understand that you probably do not "understand" or "like" this type of music but trust me when I say that this feature is MANDATORY for everyone on BALKAN/ORIENTAL area.

for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U_qbepJ1LY
OR even better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh1NqlJQcXQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyPLVvPX_z4

This is what I'm referring to, and until yamaha makes this happen on TYROS keyboards really small number of people in Balkan will play it. Maybe those who play "foreign" music...but for "our" national weddings etc... no go

ALSO, if you guys think that BALKAN is small market I must say you are sooooo wrong, but OK I understand that this is not useful for those who do not use it of course, but if they think World Wide why is this ignored in their THE BEST ARRANGERs and again is available in basically ALL yamaha workstations (non arranger keyboards)

Balkan
about 55 million people
Bulgaria, Macedonia, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia, Romania, Italia, Albania, Greece, Turkey, etc..

I entirely agree Daliboraleksov. It's that in the region that I live in, the portamento is not so used. Indeed, for the examples you have shown (balkan music) is very important.
Thank you for opening my eyes.

Enildo

[daliboraleksov]

Sure no problem,

Also probably the most famous keyboard players in the world
ARE using mono legato (and/or glide portamento)

like for example:

Joe Zawinul
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WQfeplhzT4

Herbie Hancock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIoCSkjz8aA

Jordan Rudess
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81FfFSMgc98

So just to be more clear

MONO LEGATO and glide (configurable) portamento

IS WELL USED since...well...forever... and in ALL kind of music not only Balkan but Jazz, Rock, Pop, Funk, Metal, Latino etc...you name it

Not having this feature in the best yamaha's arranger (tyros) is such a shame for Yamaha

But I hope someone from Yamaha will actually LISTEN and finally implement this!!!

The reason why I'm personally exasperated on Yamaha is because I have played more than 30 different keyboards in my life
(starting from Ensoniq, Yamaha DX/SY99, Korg T3, Roland g600/800/1000, Korg pa80/pa1/.../pa4, Tyros1/2/3/4/5 etc...) and I really admire Yamaha's SOUND engine it is probably the best and so **** good produced.
Drums, Guitars, etc...everything SOUNDS so **** good and then again it does not have mono legato and glide portamento.
So I had to bring another keyboard whole my life OR just buy a "KORG" which I personally do not like (ONLY because of its sound engine and ROM sound)

I even tried (since I'm am a software engineer too) to use MIDI and somehow intercept all MIDI messages and override them to somehow implement mono legato, but I failed since I never had so much time to work on MIDI etc... too bad

Another Yamaha's issue is their "editing" features.... but this is not a current topic...this deserves a separate thread

Anyway, I'm so sorry if I bother you guys with so many details but this is the only reasonable FORUM that I could find where I can actually say something Thank you for that

[voodoo]

My best bet is that the feature will be integrated in some of the new sounds, which will sound awesome, and you will probably use those... so from this kind of features even you would benefit indirectly...

This is my bet, also. The super articulation voices have kind of mono legato already.

[Brnjeuska74]

Some folks just get it what is missing here regarding the PORTAMENTO MONO/LEGATO on Tyros..... wav format !!!!!

[daliboraleksov]

I understand your pain....

Once they implement configurable glide portamento and mono legato I really EXPECT that this is going to be available for all samples including ROM and RAM...so yes, this feature MUST be available for all sounds: factory and custom/user WAVE samples.

I don't really care about the yamaha's articulation algorithms
I don't really care about their implementation of string quartet and those kind of things

But not having the configurable glide portamento and mono legato in yamaha's best arrangers???
Don't know what to say anymore really!!! Thank you

[metcam]

"Brnjeuska" and "Dalibor Aleksov"

I am with you my friends.I am pretty sure Yamaha will have on Next Tyros/Genos etc.

As this moment the only Yamaha aranger which have Portamento-MONO/LEGATO for internal and external samples is PSR-A3000 and working very,very good.

[Styles2psr]

It's about time to wake up Yamaha!!!!!!!!!

We really need a proper portamento/mono legato in our Yamaha arrangers, why is it so hard to make that?
The built-in feature it's a piece of ****, and also very limited.

As some of you mention, the Mono/legato feature is not only used in Balkan and Middle East Music, but in EDM Music as well.

It is very frustrating when you working with EDM styles and you're trying to create a great drop lead melody in a Intro with portamento effect,
but you can't because in Style Mode the Mono feature/button doesn't work.
Instead i have to use the pitchbend to get similar effect.


Here is 2 short demos i've done, showing 1 bad portamento, and 1 proper Portamento/glide.
See attached Mp3 files.


Mono 1:
It sounds exactly like Yamahas crappy built-in feature.


Mono 2:
A perfect Portamento/legato/glide, this is what we need in our arrangers.


Perhaps in 2025 Yamaha will feature a proper portamento function.


Regards, Jan.


[attachment deleted by admin]

[metcam]

Perhaps in 2025 Yamaha will feature a proper portamento function.

Perhaps in Genos     

[ugawoga]

Tyros 5 Portamento Is good as It gets
I can get it to sweep Like Elp and Camel
Even Chicory Tip  Son of a father

No problem

What about PFM and Celebration  and Nutbush City Limits!!!!    SWEEPY SWEEPY on the Tyros

Does not emulate Portamento In DAWS  as the zeros and ones are slightly out,so you get plain a note unless you can read and program Cal in Sonar Platinum.

"Where's my Genos"

[Marcus]

It's about time to wake up Yamaha!!!!!!!!!

We really need a proper portamento/mono legato in our Yamaha arrangers, why is it so hard to make that?
The built-in feature it's a piece of ****, and also very limited.

As some of you mention, the Mono/legato feature is not only used in Balkan and Middle East Music, but in EDM Music as well.

It is very frustrating when you working with EDM styles and you're trying to create a great drop lead melody in a Intro with portamento effect,
but you can't because in Style Mode the Mono feature/button doesn't work.
Instead i have to use the pitchbend to get similar effect.


Here is 2 short demos i've done, showing 1 bad portamento, and 1 proper Portamento/glide.
See attached Mp3 files.


Mono 1:
It sounds exactly like Yamahas crappy built-in feature.


Mono 2:
A perfect Portamento/legato/glide, this is what we need in our arrangers.


Perhaps in 2025 Yamaha will feature a proper portamento function.


Regards, Jan.

Hi Jan
Interesting thread about this portamento issue. I listened to your Mono 1 and Mono 2 mp3s. You definitely don't want to achieve this effect by manually using the pitch bend wheel, but you can get the approximate portamento/mono effect from your Mono 2 example by adjusting a chosen Tyros 5 voice in Voice Set and saving the edits as a user voice. While in Voice Set on the "common" tab, setting to mono with a portamento time set around 20-25 gives you the approximate portamento effect your example had. Also while in Voice Set your can also tweak the EG attack time in the "sound" tab. Any registration can now link to this user voice save with the portamento/mono effect and playable on the keyboard. I am not familiar with many voices or instruments that use this effect, but anyone can customize any Tyros 5 voice that allows this effect and save the edited voice.

I tried creating a new style in Style Creator adding the chosen edited custom voice (with the portamento/mono setting) to one of the style channels. You are correct, Style Creator ignored the mono feature and the portamento effect was not present in the style channel recording. You do make a valid point, that Yamaha could address in future keyboards and within Style Creator. The issue may already been resolved in the upcoming Genos, but we will have to wait and see.

I also went through my expansion voices and some of my own voices I made in Voice Creator and most, if not all had the mono/portamento option open in Voice Set, where one can easily make the mount of effect you want and save the user voice. I found the effect to be just as smooth as your Mono 2 example. As expected, I found none of my SA2 expansion voices allowed the mono/portamento changes in Voice Set, but practically every other expansion voice, including most SA voices allowed the editing. So maybe satisfactory results could be made to most voices presently on the Tyros 5, but as you say, not in Style mode.

I also tried my edited voice (with portamento/mono) in Multipad Creator. Same issue as Style Creator; the mono/portamento effect disappears. So perhaps if Yamaha corrects this issue to allow this effect in Style mode, with also correct the issue in Multipad mode.

Hope my 2 cents helps,
Marcus

[Joe H]

Marcus,

The Portamento effect is implemented via the Voice Set file... which is not loaded when used in a style Part.  The .vce file is only used for R1, R2, R3 and Left.

I believe Portamento is supported in Multi Pads, but you have to Insert the messages manually.  I would have to look to see if the same applies to style Parts, since I haven't actually tried it in one of my own styles (up to this point anyway).

Joe H

[SeaGtGruff]

I've come across style files that do contain Portamento Control messages. From what I've been able to gather from researching this message on the web, I believe it's used to trigger the Portamento effect regardless of whether the channel is set to Mono or Poly mode-- and apparently regardless of whether the Portamento On/Off control is turned on-- but I can't be certain about that because there seem to be so few "hard facts" written about it on the web, and so far I haven't been able to get it to work on my PSR-E models (even though Yamaha says they do respond to Portamento Control messages).

The Portamento Control message is a bit like a Note On message, in that the data is a Note value. The message would be placed just before some Note On message to effect a glide from the Note specified by the Portamento Control to the Note specified by the Note On message. IIRC, one reference said that Portamento Time is assumed to be 0 when Portamento Control is used, but that seems to make no sense. IIRC, another reference said that the rate of the glide is determined by the Portamento Time setting, which makes more sense.

[soundphase]

A very good way to get very good portamento (Jordan Rudess's demo) on our Tyros/Genos :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P14JcRyJCEI

[metcam]

Hi

I started this topic on  March 24, 2016.

Now I can say THANK YOU  YAMAHA.

So Yamaha watching our posts on this forum and YAMAHA listen.

Thank you YAMAHA again.

[Jean Abdou]

Request for all future new arrangers  from Yamaha:

Portamento on sampled Custom voices:

Yamaha : wake up please and make PROFESSIONAL PORTAMENTO on new arrangers.
There is a lot of musicians from Eastern Europe,Balkan,south east Europe ....and every were else who need PORTAMENTO same as KORG PA arrangers or DX models....
For a lot of musicians wil be a BIG reason to bay NEW Tyros6 or whatever is going to be named...

Since """psr9000PRO""" we keep asking you (Yamaha) and for some reason YOU don't LISTENING.


Please Give as PROFESSIONAL PORTAMENTO!

Thank you Yamaha.

The posts are long and I can't go through all of them. You are talking about two things. Legato and Portamento. These are two different things.

The DX example, is not sample based synthesis but is FM synthesis. It synthesis the voice through mathematical models. You should understand that when using sample based synthesis, smooth  transition in portamento is NOT POSSIBLE since it is no using mathematical models.

It is the same in Korg, Roland and every where you can think of. Korg is offering you two options in Kronos, using the pitch bend style method to extrapolate the sample. The second option is to use what Yamaha is using in MOTIF series.

The pitch bend style extrapolation sounds terrible and unnatural, specially if you play non legato right after the last note you played. I don't think the pitchbend style is used that often by Korg users unless it's an cheap wedding style performance.

The second method, which you adjust a few parameters, is available in MOTIF series as well as Montage. It works on connecting the currently played sample to the next sample (not extrapolating the current sample like pitch bend) and thus due to different attack part in the wave form it creates a slight non-smoothness... but since a new sample is being played it sounds much more natural although, articulation-wise is not smooth. You must assign the portamento time to mod-wheel or a controller to adjust the amount of effect you want in this method.

It you need such capability you should buy either a MOTIF or a Montage. It is not a feature which will be added to Tyros/Genos any soon.

[whisperdancer]

Sorry to write on this old topic, but I find I can create correct mono legato custom voices with custom waveforms in Tyros4 by starting to create them editing a voice that behaves as legato in mono mode.
I took screenshots of every parameter in Voice Editor (pc software) for both voices (one made after a preset that had correct mono legato and one that mono legato was always behaving like legato even if played several seconds later) and can't find any difference between them, except one behaves differently that the other.
Must be an internal thing defined in the base voice.
The solo female voices I have behave properly now.