Author Topic: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!  (Read 13767 times)

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Offline metcam

PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« on: March 24, 2016, 01:40:46 PM »
Request for all future new arrangers  from Yamaha:

Portamento on sampled Custom voices:

Yamaha : wake up please and make PROFESSIONAL PORTAMENTO on new arrangers.
There is a lot of musicians from Eastern Europe,Balkan,south east Europe ....and every were else who need PORTAMENTO same as KORG PA arrangers or DX models....
For a lot of musicians wil be a BIG reason to bay NEW Tyros6 or whatever is going to be named...

Since """psr9000PRO""" we keep asking you (Yamaha) and for some reason YOU don't LISTENING.


Please Give as PROFESSIONAL PORTAMENTO!

Thank you Yamaha.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 01:24:43 AM by metcam »
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Offline FantomX

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2016, 01:23:39 AM »
The new Yamaha PSR A3000 Legato and Portamento is similar to Korg models, currently is the sole arranger of the Yamaha has so! This makes the Yamaha PSR A3000 best arranger from Yamaha in my opinion (I wanted the same thing and I)
Curent Instruments:Yamaha A3000 Oriental,Yamaha VL7 (V2), Korg Triton(Moss),Korg Prophecy . Previus instruments:Yamaha Dx7,DX21,DX100,V50,Yamaha W7,Yamaha VL70m,Yamaha EX5R , Korg Triton Studio,Extreme,Trinity Plus ,Trinity V3, FantomX6,Yamaha Motif ES7..
 

Online travlin-easy

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2016, 09:08:23 AM »
The feature is already in the keyboard, and can be utilized by the foot pedal. Press the direct access button, then step on any of the foot pedals you have plugged in, and scroll down the list. It's that easy.

Ask and ye shall receive,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline metcam

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2016, 02:48:13 PM »

Offcourse Feature is there.


Questions how good is compare other competitors. NOT GOOD.


The Portamento on all Yamaha arrangers are very poor.

Regards.





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Offline tyrosaurus

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2016, 03:01:59 PM »
Hi Metcam,

I don't use portamento much myself, but just out of interest, in what way is the Yamaha implementation different to Korg's, and what are the additional features of 'Professional Portamento'?

Perhaps you can point me to a YouTube video which shows what you want to see on Yamaha keyboards.


Regards

Ian
 

Offline metcam

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2016, 04:11:28 PM »
Hi Ian

Only Yamaha arrangers das NOT have Good Portamento.

The Best portamento is on Yamaha DX series keyboards and Korg Triton series.Also need to play that kind of music to really understand.

KORG PA arrangers are also very good.

Here is very good example of Yamaha DX-11 portamento;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVhVGz8nGtw


regards
Curent Instruments: Tyros5-61,,,PSR-A3000
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Offline Brnjeuska74

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2016, 06:43:32 PM »
Finally someone get on this subject !!! Let me start of with thank you METCAM for bringing this subject up. It is about time Yamaha take a second look at this mystery subject. We are talking about THE BEST Keyboard there is and yet still missing this application on board. For those of you that are not very knowledgeable of informed about this effect please keep your comments to your self you are not helping. If you work with WAV sampling of sounds you would understand.
Portamento MONO/LEGATO is a MUST effect for many instrument if you want to play it like a live instrument.
So Yamaha please implement PORTAMENTO MONO/LEGATO on WAV format. Thank you

Offline overover

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2016, 10:14:19 PM »
Hi metcam,

what do you think about "PORTAMENTO Quality" in the brand new T5/PSR Expansion Pack "Phat Analog" (by Peter Krischker/Easy Sounds)?

---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BQAl4gFXLs

(for example, when you start the video at time position 6:05)


Regards,
Chris

« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 12:53:42 AM by overover »
 

Online travlin-easy

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2016, 05:51:14 AM »
Personally, I never used that feature, and I play all kinds of music using a wide variety of right hand voices. And, I don't know of anyone that uses it. So, if it's such a necessary feature to employ, how about those of you that require it post some of your music so we can hear how it is employed in the specific songs where it it is required.

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline metcam

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2016, 07:03:08 AM »
I don't think is meters who posting,,is meters that yamaha emprove in next generation. ....

Yamaha already knows about this and a lot of musicians who play portamento already contact yamaha.

Please my friends if you can't help,,,don't make it worst.

I love Yamaha,,and definitely Yamaha is my instrument. As a valued customar there is nothing wrong If we Ask them for something that's is important for kind of music we play.

Thank you
Curent Instruments: Tyros5-61,,,PSR-A3000
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Offline pjd

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2016, 07:30:10 AM »
Hi metcam  and brnjeuska74 --

Thanks for posting about this.

You mentioned "Eastern Europe, Balkan, and south east Europe". I would like to learn more about the kind of portamento that you want, especially in the context of the desired music itself. I'm assuming that it's music within the native regional style.

Please, would you be kind enough to post a few more links or the names of artists/tracks to listen to? Thanks!

I'm working on a programmable MIDI controller project and listening to examples would expand my musical education. More info might help Yamaha, too, if they are reading this forum.

All the best and peace -- pj
 

Offline metcam

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2016, 09:24:50 AM »

HI pj


Basic words that is MONO-LEGATO playing!And on Yamaha arrangers with sampled custom voices (wav or aiff) not working at all.

It's hard to explain,but if you have near any other keyboard:Dx11,Dx21,Dx100, or Korg PA 800,900,pax3-4......... I am more than welcome to send yo you example and you try.
Curent Instruments: Tyros5-61,,,PSR-A3000
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Offline Joe H

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2016, 11:38:25 AM »
metcam,

Have you tried adjusting the Portamento to suit your needs by using VOICE SET?.  The correct Portamento speed is critical for many instruments. Even for western instruments like Saxophone, whistles and Violin.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline pjd

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2016, 11:38:44 AM »
Hi metcam --

Thanks! Unfortunately, I sold my DX-21 back in 1995 -- like everything else which went up in value after I sold it. :-)

Finally, "MONO-LEGATO" dawned on me. For other folks, here is a long quote from the DX-21 manual:
[blockquote]
Two different portamento modes are available: Full Time Portamento and Fingered Portamento. When the POLY/MONO function is set to POLY, only the Full Time Portamento is accessible. In the MONO mode, you have choice between the Full Time and Fingered portamento modes:

1. Full Time Portamento: A conventional portamento effect in which portamento occurs whenever a new note is played.

2. Fingered Portamento: Portamento only occurs if the previously played note is held while the next note is played. This mode is useful in recreating the effect of guitar string bending techniques, wood bass slide effects, etc. If you lift your hand off the DX21 keyboard between notes, there will be no portamento effect.
[/blockquote]

So, yeah, I see your point. I can't remember if the DX suppressed the attack of the second note or not? It's been a long time!

SA2 (Articulated Element Modeling) is supposed to handle playing techniques like this. Of course, SA2 is only on Tyros.

All the best to you -- pj
 

Online travlin-easy

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2016, 12:24:11 PM »
In music, portamento (plural: portamenti, from Italian: portamento, meaning "carriage" or "carrying") is a pitch sliding from one note to another. The term originated from the Italian expression "portamento della voce" (carriage of the voice), denoting from the beginning of the 17th century its use in vocal performances[1] and its emulation by members of the violin family and certain wind instruments,[2] and is sometimes used interchangeably with anticipation.[3] It is also applied to one type of glissando as well as to the "glide" function of synthesizers.

I know what portamnento means, however, as I stated above, I've never used it, or heard it used in any kind of music that I've performed in more than 60 years. So, Metcam, if you think there is something that Yamaha can do to improve on this feature, I implore you to sit down and write a well thought out, constructive letter to Yamaha, something I have done many times, and for the most part, if it is something that can be done, they will do so, either with a software update, or changes in upcoming, new models.

Good luck,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline Joe H

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2016, 01:25:35 PM »
pj,

Thanks for the info.  Per the above definition... On the arranger we have only Fingered Portamento in Mono Mode, adjustable in Voice Set.  We also have "Glide" available by Foot Switch.  I've never used it but maybe that works on both Poly Mode and Mono Mode. 

Joe H
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 01:28:06 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2016, 03:04:02 PM »
Hi Metcam,

I listened to Sadin Idic in the YouTube link that you posted and a few more videos including ones where he was using a DX11.  It's not a musical style that I am familiar with, but it certainly gets your foot tapping!   :)

I thought that Yamaha arrangers did produce what I would describe as Mono Legato portamento, which is presumably what you want.   So I checked a few voices on my Tyros4, and it does produce Mono Legato portamento - but only on some voices!

I would expect Mono Legato to only produce a glide if two successive notes are played legato, and for voices such as Ocarina and other flute type voices this is what it seems to do, as long as Mono is turned on and the portamento time is set greater than zero.  If you play staccato, then you don't get a glide.  The non SA2 string voices such as Violin, Viola  and Fiddle do this too.

However on other voices, accordions for example the effect is different.  If you play two successive notes with Mono turned on and a portamento time set above zero, there is always a glide whether you play legato or staccato.  In fact you can play one note and release it, then play the next note even an hour later (as long as you don't change the voice), and you will still get a glide from the first note to the second!   I assume that this is the problem (feature in Yamaha speak!) that you are referring to with Yamaha arrangers!

I think that I now understand what you were trying to convey.

Now even though I don't really use portamento myself, I can't see immediately see a situation where this latter effect would be of any use.  Remembering a note's pitch and envelope for any length of time after the note is released until the next none is played doesn't make sense to me, but I suppose it could be what some users want, synth players for example!  Incidentally if you use such a voice and play the second note very briefly and then press the same key again, the note is re-triggered from the beginning with all of it's attack and without further glide.

I assume that Yamaha feel that only certain voices would (or should) be used with portamento and have only programmed these to correctly play Mono Legato.   However the choice seems a bit arbitrary.  For example none of the accordions do, but then I don't see how you could play an accordion with portamento any way, so that may be sensible. 

However some of the pad voices do correctly play Mono Legato if adjusted (Sinespere, All or Nothing), but others don't (Heaven Pad, VPSoft).   

In the brass category, of the non SA2 voices that can be set up as Mono, Silver trumpet and Trombone play Mono Legato portamento correctly, whereas Cornet and Flugelhorn don't.

In terms of Custom WA voices (which use only external samples) I can't find any in my collection that play correctly in this respect.

In general terms it looks as if when you open the Common page of the Voice Set for non SA2 preset voices, those voices that have the Portamento Time set to zero will not play Mono Legato portamento, even if adjusted.  Those voices which already have a non zero Portamento Time programmed into them, do play as expected.

You say that Korgs do play Mono Legato portamento 'correctly'.  Do they do this with any instrument voice, even those where it would not be possible to play glides from one note to the next on the real instrument?   If they do then maybe Korg's implementation of the portamento function is flawed too!


Regards

Ian

angelonyc

  • Guest
Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2016, 06:54:50 PM »
Excellent summation Tyrosaurus;
 

Offline metcam

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2016, 10:54:24 AM »
Hi metcam --

Thanks! Unfortunately, I sold my DX-21 back in 1995 -- like everything else which went up in value after I sold it. :-)

Finally, "MONO-LEGATO" dawned on me. For other folks, here is a long quote from the DX-21 manual:
[blockquote]

2. Fingered Portamento: Portamento only occurs if the previously played note is held while the next note is played. This mode is useful in recreating the effect of guitar string bending techniques, wood bass slide effects, etc. If you lift your hand off the DX21 keyboard between notes, there will be no portamento effect.
[/blockquote]

So, yeah, I see your point. I can't remember if the DX suppressed the attack of the second note or not? It's been a long time!



All the best to you -- pj

BINGO!


""Ian""

Meaning Korg play 'correctly" I meant that MONO-LEGATO portamento working fine with Sampled programs.
One more time:Mono-Legato portamento working on internal Tyros voices,But not working on Custom voices made from "wav-aiff" samples.
  And Yes,I already contact Yamaha,continue doing since 1999.So many folks Ask them this questions and Yamaha so far about this problem newer listen.
   We know Yamaha watching this great forum so I posted here also....
Thanks
« Last Edit: March 27, 2016, 11:35:35 AM by metcam »
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Offline jwyvern

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2016, 12:22:59 PM »
Hi metcam,
Here is further info about Tyros5 if of interest :):
I recall portamento operating on earlier Tyros's as described by Ian. According to the manual Ty5 should operate the same way (set to mono and set a suitable PO time).  PO then works as Ian described in mono mode. And if you use the PO pedal it also works if you leave it in Poly mode with some difference to the effect.
Concerning custom voices, I have some installed on Ty5 which were originally uvn's made on Ty4 or earlier. I also have a few newer ones created in YEM for Ty5. I can hear Portamento occurring on all types, whether they are made from wavs, whether from preset elements, or a mixture of both- provided I press the assigned pedal and set a long enough PO time!
John  (Edited)
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 02:10:57 PM by jwyvern »
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2016, 12:28:07 PM »
Meaning Korg play 'correctly" I meant that MONO-LEGATO portamento working fine with Sampled programs.
One more time:Mono-Legato portamento working on internal Tyros voices,But not working on Custom voices made from "wav-aiff" samples.
  And Yes,I already contact Yamaha,continue doing since 1999.So many folks Ask them this questions and Yamaha so far about this problem newer listen.
   We know Yamaha watching this great forum so I posted here also....

So, you're now saying that Portamento works properly on Yamaha arrangers, right? That's quite a change from your first post.

And the problem you're having is with custom voices, not anything standard on keyboard. So isn't it the voices that need fixing, not the keyboard?

Regards,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Tyros 4, Bose L1, Finale 2011
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline metcam

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2016, 01:31:20 AM »
So, you're now saying that Portamento works properly on Yamaha arrangers, right? That's quite a change from your first post.

And the problem you're having is with custom voices, not anything standard on keyboard. So isn't it the voices that need fixing, not the keyboard?

Regards,
Fred

On internal voices,Yes,on sampled voices NO.

Same custom voice (from same wav file) on my pa900 working Perfect.That is a fact .Somebody like or not ,that is a true.

For those who use portamento they know what is a problem.

For those who not use portamento and fill hurt because complain on Yamaha.....sorry.

I Like Yamaha 10 times more than Korg,,but fact is fact.

here is one of previus conversations: http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,27490.0/nowap.html

Regards
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 01:44:59 AM by metcam »
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Offline FantomX

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2016, 05:57:24 AM »
metcam Hello, I am from Romania (Balkan area) and I understand very well what you mean ... BUT, the problem is not the Yamaha arranger Portamento function ! The problem is Mono-Legato function is not implemented! That was until coming to the market the new Yamaha PSR A3000 Oriental, which is the only Yamaha arranger that was implemented this function (which can be used including Custom Voice)! So if you want to Yamaha arranger -legato mono-portamento (Korg Triton or similar models Korg PA series), you buy Yamaha PSR A3000 Oriental! If you need an example audio Yamaha PSR A3000, to convince you .... at your disposal !
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 07:37:49 AM by FantomX »
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Offline metcam

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2016, 07:14:57 AM »
Heloo Fantom

Yes!!!!!!

That's it.I check owners manual and yes,under Voice edit there is options mono-legato.

I hope Yamaha will put into Tyros6.
ENOUGH reason for me to bay Tyros6.

Thank you

Regards
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Offline FantomX

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2016, 07:21:14 AM »
Yes... and for me it was one of the reasons ( and the most important ) I bought Yamaha A3000 Oriental, instead of buying Tyros 5 . The other reason -Drum Setup !
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 07:33:11 AM by FantomX »
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Offline metcam

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2016, 08:01:15 AM »
I am very happy for you.
I'm waiting Tyros6 or whatever it be called. If that implementation is not going to be there I will bay A3000.
I see you have Prophecy and Juzi.Now you can do sampling and importing files from them into Yamaha A3000.

Best wishes.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 08:05:14 AM by metcam »
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Offline FantomX

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2016, 08:32:30 AM »
Exactly, that's why we have not sold Korg Prophecy ... Juzi Sound ... is something else ... it contains several types of mono legato (including Porta Speed, and more) that makes it unique in music Balkan ... but that's a different discussion  :) ! Most important ..Yamaha made a great step forward by introducing new functions: Mono-Legato and Drum Setup! Congratulations Yamaha. P.S.- If Yamaha will introduce the synthesis VL ( Virtual Acoustic Synthesis )example :Yamaha Vl1 , Vl7 , Vl70m , Yamaha EX5r ...will have "great weight" on the market  arranger or workstations !    Best regards  !
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 09:32:59 AM by FantomX »
Curent Instruments:Yamaha A3000 Oriental,Yamaha VL7 (V2), Korg Triton(Moss),Korg Prophecy . Previus instruments:Yamaha Dx7,DX21,DX100,V50,Yamaha W7,Yamaha VL70m,Yamaha EX5R , Korg Triton Studio,Extreme,Trinity Plus ,Trinity V3, FantomX6,Yamaha Motif ES7..
 

Offline Brnjeuska74

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2016, 07:36:09 PM »
Let's just stay on the subject !!! All that we need is tools !! Arranger Keyboard is all about make it the way you want it !!! If Yamaha wants to stay on that course than make it works !! It really doesn't  matter where you from !!!
What we need is Portamento MONO/LEGATO on WAV format !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   That goes for the new Tyros or however you name it Yamaha !!!
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 07:37:56 PM by Brnjeuska74 »
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2016, 08:11:31 PM »
Let's just stay on the subject !!! All that we need is tools !! Arranger Keyboard is all about make it the way you want it !!! If Yamaha wants to stay on that course than make it works !! It really doesn't  matter where you from !!!
What we need is Portamento MONO/LEGATO on WAV format !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   That goes for the new Tyros or however you name it Yamaha !!!

The problem is that Yamaha has only so many resources. They can't possibly implement every suggestion. They have to choose which they think will be the most popular and provide the biggest boost to sales.

If implementing this suggestion crowds out other suggestions, or raises the price beyond reason, is that fair? I think not.

Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Tyros 4, Bose L1, Finale 2011
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2016, 09:03:01 PM »
On the other hand, the fact that the newish PSR-A3000 apparently does what they're asking for in this thread might-- might-- suggest that Yamaha is thinking about implementing this behavior on other upcoming models. Did the PSR-A3000's predecessors behave the same way, or is it new to the PSR-A3000?
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443
 

Offline Joe H

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2016, 09:22:26 PM »
Seems to me that Yamaha has listened when people in Eastern Europe and the Middle East have said the ethnic instruments didn't sound so realistic... so they improved them.  I assume many persons also suggested the Portamento be implemented on their arranger keyboards to help create more realistic musical nuances for players in those parts of the world. 


It's a BIG world out there... and Yamaha is striving to satisfy musicians of many many different cultures and provide styles for the traditional music of these many cultures.  What a monumental task that must be... to provide realistic styles and realistic instrument sounds for diverse cultures in every part of the world!  Who could even attempt to do that... but Yamaha Corporation.

Give them some slack, I think they are working on it!

Cheers,
Joe H
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 09:24:14 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Ed B

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2016, 06:52:29 PM »
Hi
I thought that potamento was there?
The instruments all have an option to select monophonic. When you are using this option of a voice it allows a portamento feature to come into effect which is great to simulate the playing of a sax or other solo instrument. It provides a legato effect moving smoothly from note to note. this can be demonstrated by selecting mono for say the voice "Oxgen" in the synth category turn off the ACMP and press C1 and then C6. You will hear the portamento effect. The portamento effect only works in the monophonic mode.
Ed B
Keep on learning
 

Offline FantomX

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2016, 04:32:50 AM »
On the other hand, the fact that the newish PSR-A3000 apparently does what they're asking for in this thread might-- might-- suggest that Yamaha is thinking about implementing this behavior on other upcoming models. Did the PSR-A3000's predecessors behave the same way, or is it new to the PSR-A3000?
     Yamaha PSR A3000 Oriental is the sole arranger who has Mono Legato , has no predecessors!

Curent Instruments:Yamaha A3000 Oriental,Yamaha VL7 (V2), Korg Triton(Moss),Korg Prophecy . Previus instruments:Yamaha Dx7,DX21,DX100,V50,Yamaha W7,Yamaha VL70m,Yamaha EX5R , Korg Triton Studio,Extreme,Trinity Plus ,Trinity V3, FantomX6,Yamaha Motif ES7..
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2016, 09:35:19 AM »
     Yamaha PSR A3000 Oriental is the sole arranger who has Mono Legato , has no predecessors!

Aren't the PSR-A1000 and PSR-A2000 predecessors of the PSR-A3000? I was asking whether they had Mono/Legato Portamento. Their Owner's Manuals seem to indicate that they did-- except they didn't have the "Mono Type" function in the Voice Set parameters, whereas the PSR-A3000 does, so I don't know whether their implementation of Mono/Legato Portamento was the same as what you're asking for.
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443
 

Offline FantomX

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2016, 10:47:05 AM »
When I say "Yamaha PSR A3000 Oriental is the sole arranger Who has Mono Legato, has no predecessors" ... I referred to the fact that the function has no predecessor Mono Legato ! P.S. -not good speaker of English (using Google Translator, and often what I want to say ... Mr. Google translate slightly differently), I hope you understand what I mean!
Curent Instruments:Yamaha A3000 Oriental,Yamaha VL7 (V2), Korg Triton(Moss),Korg Prophecy . Previus instruments:Yamaha Dx7,DX21,DX100,V50,Yamaha W7,Yamaha VL70m,Yamaha EX5R , Korg Triton Studio,Extreme,Trinity Plus ,Trinity V3, FantomX6,Yamaha Motif ES7..
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2016, 12:57:17 PM »
I hope you understand what I mean!

Yes, I got you. :) And it looks like the Tyros 5's manual is very similar to those of the PSR-A1000 and PSR-A2000 as far as their information about the Mono/Legato option and Portamento, so I'm guessing they don't implement it in the same way that the PSR-A3000 does, i.e. the way that's being asked for in this thread.
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443
 

Offline FantomX

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2016, 01:31:50 PM »
Yes, I got you. :) And it looks like the Tyros 5's manual is very similar to those of the PSR-A1000 and PSR-A2000 as far as their information about the Mono/Legato option and Portamento, so I'm guessing they don't implement it in the same way that the PSR-A3000 does, i.e. the way that's being asked for in this thread.
       follows the arrow and see what is missing in Tyros 2, 3, 4, 5 !
Curent Instruments:Yamaha A3000 Oriental,Yamaha VL7 (V2), Korg Triton(Moss),Korg Prophecy . Previus instruments:Yamaha Dx7,DX21,DX100,V50,Yamaha W7,Yamaha VL70m,Yamaha EX5R , Korg Triton Studio,Extreme,Trinity Plus ,Trinity V3, FantomX6,Yamaha Motif ES7..
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2016, 02:02:24 PM »
Yes, I got you. :) And it looks like the Tyros 5's manual is very similar to those of the PSR-A1000 and PSR-A2000 as far as their information about the Mono/Legato option and Portamento, so I'm guessing they don't implement it in the same way that the PSR-A3000 does, i.e. the way that's being asked for in this thread.

I am still trying to figure what the difference is - if any- between the A3000 mono-legato and other keyboards. The A3000 manual's description of Portamento is nothing special and is on a par with descriptions in Tyros's and I'm guessing, many PSR's . eg.
When the mono button is on ...." depending on the voice Portamento may be produced when notes are played with legato".
The Portamento pedal is also mentioned, PO being produced via legato playing. (There is no mention of mono or poly settings in this case, similar to the Ty5 manual).
So, there is little evidence from the manual that the A3000 treats PO any differently from other keyboards- unless it has been found to apply PO successfully to wav based voices when other PSR's do not.
But even in that case Tyros5 can apply Portamento to wav voices- see my earlier post way back in the thread- The technology may be in use already- does the S970 apply PO to wav voices?

metcam has a Tyros5 and I was hoping he would comment on my earlier post. Does he find the overall application of Portamento on Ty5 satisfactory? It would help to clarify I think.
John
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 02:13:07 PM by jwyvern »
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2016, 02:50:44 PM »
John, one difference is that page 114 of the PSR-A3000's Owner's Manual shows an additional Voice Set parameter-- "Mono Type"-- which is also shown in the image that FantomX just posted.

As I interpret the description of the "Mono Type" setting, it lets you choose how overlapping notes are handled when the Voice is in Mono mode-- i.e., does the second note retrigger the ADSR envelope ("Normal" setting), or does the second note play as a continuation of the first note without having a separate ADSR envelope of its own ("Legato" setting)?

Although I've never played a hard synth, only soft synths, my understanding is that synths with a Portamento feature typically suppress the retriggering of the ADSR envelope for notes which are played legato-- presumably only when Portamento is turned on and the Portamento Time or Portamento Amount is set to 0. The initial note triggers the beginning of the ADSR envelope, but subsequent overlapping notes are sounded without having any Attack of their own; the current ADSR envelope simply continues from whatever point it's at in the Attack, Decay, or Sustain phase-- i.e., depending on the Attack Time, Decay Time, and how much time has elapsed between the beginning of the initial note and when the next note was pressed. The Release phase doesn't begin until the last legato or overlapping note is released.
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443
 

Online voodoo

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2016, 12:29:12 AM »
This is even mentioned on the "Features" tab of the official yamaha web page for the A3000:

For example, a new feature called “Mono Legato” allows you to play trill phrases without using the joystick, perfect when playing with Oriental string instrument Voices.

And this is what the A3000 manual says about the new parameter "mono type":

Determines the behavior of the notes of decaying sounds, such as a guitar,
when they are played with legato with the edited Voice set to MONO above.
When NORMAL is selected, the next note sounds after the previous note is
stopped. When LEGATO is selected, the sound of the previously played
note is maintained and only the pitch changes to that of the next note.

So I think that SeaGtGruff is right with his explanation.

Uli
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 12:38:26 AM by voodoo »
Yamaha PSR-S970 (sold)
Yamaha Genos (ordered)
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2016, 02:37:30 AM »
 Hi SeaGtGruff and voodoo,
At last we are seeing a clear distinction between normal portamento understood by most people as available on keyboards and a new type, mono-legato, on the A3000.
Many thanks for the explanations   :)

John
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2016, 02:53:56 AM »
The weird thing is, manuals for other models also speak of "Mono/Legato," even though they don't have the "Mono Type" setting in their Voice Set parameters. I'm wondering if there's already an XG SysEx message for setting the "Mono Type" (i.e., the behavior of the ADSR Envelope Generator), and all Yamaha has really done is added a way to control it via the Voice Set parameters so it's more accessible. What would be interesting is if someone with a PSR-A3000 would set up a Voice to play in the "Mono/Legato" style, then do an "Initial Send" to a DAW to capture all the corresponding MIDI messages so we can see what they are. Or I guess there might be some information in the PSR-A3000's Data List-- time to go look and see!

EDIT: Okay, I checked the Data Lists for the PSR-A3000, PSR-A2000, PSR-S970, and Tyros5. I believe the following two XG parameter addresses control the new Mono/Legato behavior. They are not listed for the PSR-A2000, PSR-S970, and Tyros5, only for the PSR-A3000:

0A nn 01 (1 byte) = Mono Priority.
Value 00 = Lastest [sic].
Value 01 = Highest.

0A nn 02 (1 byte) = Portamento Mono Legato.
Value 00 = Normal.
Value 01 = Pitch Poly.

I assume "Lastest" is a typo for either "Last" or "Latest" (which should be the same thing).
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 03:15:56 AM by SeaGtGruff »
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443
 

Offline Brnjeuska74

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2016, 07:00:03 AM »
I am glad that some of you took time to explain this effect those of you that do not fully understand use of availability in Tyros line of product !!! Thank you. Now if Yamaha listen's to us; or want me to bye their product in the future..... it will take another look at this post !!! I will repeat my self " PORTAMENTO MONO/LEGATO on WAV format !!! Just do it !!!!!!
 

Offline Brnjeuska74

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2016, 07:12:24 PM »
I was thinking, We all have to come together and every one of us send directly email to Yamaha. This forum is ok but not enough. Some things need to be presented directly to Yamaha company !!! Please take a min or two and send the email. Portamento MONO/LEGATO on WAV format is way over due on Tyros line of product.
Half bar.... hmmmm.........
 

Offline metcam

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2016, 01:14:03 AM »

"Brnjeuska"

I emailed so far a lease 10 times about this issue,,since psr9000.Also called a few times.

Personaly I think Yamaha listen better when people complaint here on forum... :)


Regards
Curent Instruments: Tyros5-61,,,PSR-A3000
Previus instruments:PSR9000,Tyros2,Tyros3,psr2000,psr2100,psr1500,psr530,psr OR700,DX7,DX11,V50,DX21.
KORG:pa800,KORG PA-900,Triton Extreme,Triton rack,.KORG X3,Roland G600.Roland D20.........
 

Offline Brnjeuska74

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #45 on: May 11, 2016, 07:40:02 PM »
My friend what ever it takes, all we need is something that is already there and developed !!! Is that to much to ask ???
 

Offline daliboraleksov

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #46 on: February 16, 2017, 11:52:15 PM »
YAMAHA you should listen to your people

I know this "post" is "off" more than few months but I hope someone from YAMAHA will listen and finally implement this feature in their "Tyros" arrangers.
Mono Legato is essential feature for playing "balkan" music primarily, but it has its own importance in other music types of course.

If someone does not understand what Mono legato means, here is a nice article about that:
https://ask.audio/articles/understanding-mono-legato-mode-in-synth-sample-vis

I'm from Serbia (Balkan) and I "know" that the main reason why basically no-one in "balkan" who is professional player, plays ONLY tyros keyboards is because of missing mono legato feature.

So what do people who like YAMAHA (tyros) usually do?
They usually buy some additional workstation keyboard that has Mono Legato like (KORG, Yamaha-Motif, TotalSampler (juzisound), etc...)
So they end up with:
* 2 keyboards on each their appearance :(
* they have to spent a lot more money even though they already had to pay considerable amount of money for their YAMAHA (read: tyros) arranger.
* they have to spend a lot more time to create custom sounds on both keyboards
* they end up with two basically different instruments with two different "sound engines" and they usually have problems to combine both together
* etc...
* Eventually they sell their Tyros and buy KORG (pa4, pa3, ...)

If you do not trust me, just take any of the "Balkan-like" countries: Serbia, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Romania, Albania, Turkey etc... and take a look at the professional keyboard players and their keyboards :-)

Why? Well... because YAMAHA "can not" implement Mono legato in tyros!!!
Is it so hard to have a simple ON/OFF switch like "MONO LEGATO: ON/OFF" ???
They implemented so many different and difficult articulation algorithms for different types of instruments like playing Sax, Clarinet, Strings (quartet), Guitars etc... and they "can't" implement MONO LEGATO :-)
Really? I'm not buying this, sorry YAMAHA.

I really do not understand what really stands behind all of this and why people from YAMAHA are doing this for so many years.
I'm almost 100% sure that mono legato is not implemented in tyros keyboards on purpose.
Is there any other REASONABLE explanation? I don't think so.
Why do I think that? Well, because it is more than obvious.
Just take any YAMAHA workstation: starting from DX7, DX11, SY99,...,MOTIF they ALL HAVE Mono legato or at least fingered portamento that is probably the most similar thing to mono legato + portamento.

Anyway, I hope someone from YAMAHA will actually SEE this and react and finally implement Mono legato and/or portamento in future tyros keyboards.
Also, it would be GREAT if they could implement a HOTFIX to previous tyros OS implementations (tyros 5,4,3,2,1) as a "new feature" but I think this would be to much to ask having in mind that they did not do this originally.
They probably do not maintain OSs for older tyros keyboards any more... to bad :(

Finally, I know that implementing mono legato and portamento will definitely increase the number of sold Tyros keyboards in ALL countries (especially Balkan) and will help YAMAHA to take the leadership in arrangers market again!

I trust YAMAHA and hope someone will listen ;)

Thanks
Dalibor Aleksov
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 05:34:29 AM by daliboraleksov »
 

Offline Enildo

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2017, 12:40:24 PM »
Personally, I never used that feature, and I play all kinds of music using a wide variety of right hand voices. And, I don't know of anyone that uses it. So, if it's such a necessary feature to employ, how about those of you that require it post some of your music so we can hear how it is employed in the specific songs where it it is required.

Gary 8)

Hello Gary! It really is a feature that does not have much use, but in some songs can make life easier for the arranger. Listen to the introduction of this song. It is much easier to change the notes (flute) with the portamento triggered. Hug!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feBKqSnDoHg
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #48 on: February 19, 2017, 02:51:44 AM »
Hi
I find portamento In the Tyros 5 excellent and for playing certain types of rock similar to Camel or 60s group  Chicory tip's ---"Son of a Father" --fame ,the Portamento is fantastic
The thing that Yamaha need to do Is get their keyboards to match System Exclusive as portamento does not play at all In Daws like Sonar Platinum  etc.
I had a little program that went In effects bin and when engaged It brought the zero's and ones a few ticks forward and then Porta played well.
Since updates In Sonar that does not work anymore.
Why I mention all of this which Is old hat to some,is that I would like to edit my songs from the Tyros on the computer which is better than pressing a load of buttons and a small screen.
There are programs out there like Midiworks etc ,but all have poor piano rolls which are basic in my opinion.
It would be great If yamaha keyboards matched a Daw perfectly for editing.
I still use Sonar to Edit my Tyros 5 as when I hear glitches ,or portamento not working ,just ignore .The piano roll still works great ,but you have to be carefull when editing Portamento as for the tails gets screwed up.
You can work around the problem as when you put your song back into the tyros it plays pertfectly again.You then have to record the song on the Tyros to keep portamento.
Songs without Portamento and things like that are a breeze to edit.
So to recap on that ,I would like to have a daw that matches The Yamaha Keyboard which I am sure a few people would pay for.
Also I would like to see Yem bettered .Load In only what you want without having to load the whole flippin lot which can take a lifretime.


Ps I thought Legato =  means a smooth notation from A to B which suits the classical side, more for Orchestra's and mello Instruments etc

Portamento= MONO Sweeps from A to B ,from low to high  which is great on Synths, mainly used for flute , or great rock tunes. or one of those things used in a circus or like blowin down the small hole at the top of a bicycle pump
.
Get Yamaha to make a decent editor for songs = Main prority!!!! 8) The rest is great

On Tyros 6_-- I would like to see better saxes and guitars then the keyboard for me is complete (do not get me wrong, the saxes and guitars are pretty good now}
Forget appegiators etc as you can string a few notes together in seconds to make a sequence, just concentrate on quality of sound and styles and editing.
That Is my 10 bobs worth or a nickel or a dime :P


All the best
John :o :) >:( :( :P :-[ :)
« Last Edit: February 19, 2017, 03:50:26 AM by ugawoga »
 

Offline metcam

Re: PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!
« Reply #49 on: February 19, 2017, 05:20:08 AM »
HI

On new Tyros6/Genos or... Portamento/MONO-Legato need to be same as on PSR-A3000!

That is IT.

The First Workstations Yamaha made MONO/LEGATO is PSR-A3000  and is a BINGO.

So Yamaha need implement in future to ALL Arangers and that will be IT.   :)

Regards!
Curent Instruments: Tyros5-61,,,PSR-A3000
Previus instruments:PSR9000,Tyros2,Tyros3,psr2000,psr2100,psr1500,psr530,psr OR700,DX7,DX11,V50,DX21.
KORG:pa800,KORG PA-900,Triton Extreme,Triton rack,.KORG X3,Roland G600.Roland D20.........