Author Topic: S770/S970 internals and a new tone generator chip  (Read 2987 times)

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Offline pjd

S770/S970 internals and a new tone generator chip
« on: November 10, 2015, 06:22:39 AM »
Hi --

First, thanks to Uli and capriz for their help in analyzing the S770 and S970.

The S770 and S970 have a new Yamaha tone generator chip: the SWP70. The SWP70 replaces the SWP51L which has been used in the last few generations of mid-range and Tyros workstations. (And Motif/MOX, BTW.) I'll eventually post some additional info about the SWP70.

In the meantime, here is a table comparing the S770/S970 against the S750/S950.

                    PSR-S750 PSR-S950  PSR-S770 PSR-S970
                    -------- --------- -------- ---------
Main CPU            SWX08    SH7731    SH7731   SH7731
Clock rate (MHz)    135.4752 256       320      320
Tone generator      SWP51L   SWP51L    SWP70    SWP70
Ext clock (MHz)     11.2896  11.2896   22.5792  22.5792
DSP SDRAM (MBytes)  8        8         8        8
DSP RCLK (MHz)      45.1584  45.1584   95.9616  95.9616
Mic ADC                      AK5381    PCM1803  AK5357
AUX IN ADC          AK5357   AK5381    AK5357   AK5381
DAC                 AK4396   AK4396    AK4396   AK4396
Digital amp         YDA164C  2*YDA164C YDA164C  2*YDA164C
Wave ROM (MBytes)   256      256       512      2048
Wave SDRAM          N/A      N/A       32MBytes 32MBytes
SSP2 chip           No       Yes       No       No


The SSP2 IC appeared with Vocal Harmony 2. Possibly, its function has been shifted to the now faster CPU or integrated into the SWP70.

The SWP70 has implications for future products. More to come. See:

    http://sandsoftwaresound.net/s770-s970-internal-arch/

for a few extra details.

All the best -- pj

Offline Joe H

Re: S770/S970 internals and a new tone generator chip
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2015, 09:28:23 AM »
pj,

Thanks for the link and write-up.  As always... its an interesting read.   8)

If I'm reading things correctly... Yamaha could have given us a lot more Expansion Memory in the S970... but I suspect they are holding out for the NEXT PSR release.  ;D

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: S770/S970 internals and a new tone generator chip
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2015, 10:41:39 AM »
Very interesting information. :D
Many thanks, Jeff
XGW - SONAR PLATINUM - CUBASE 8 WIN - MIXCRAFT8
 

Offline pjd

Re: S770/S970 internals and a new tone generator chip
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2015, 03:20:35 PM »
Thanks, folks! Still trying to get my mind around the future.

I'll say one thing, Joe, Yamaha have a bit of a product tiering problem for the moment. The T5 uses those expensive DIMM expansion boards (which are compatible with the old SWP51L tone generator, BTW) for a max voice sample expansion of 1GByte. The S9xx follow-on will have more expansion memory once the Tyros follow-on is announced and shipping.

I'm totally guessing here: the Tyros follow-on may not have add-in expansion memory. It may come with a pre-installed, large physical wave memory with more than 1GByte reserved for expansion packs. Same conjecture applies for the Motif follow-on, too.

All the best, pj


Offline tyrosaurus

Re: S770/S970 internals and a new tone generator chip
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2015, 03:38:57 PM »
The T5 uses those expensive DIMM expansion boards (which are compatible with the old SWP51L tone generator, BTW) for a max voice sample expansion of 1GByte.

Hi pj,

The sample expansion memory on a T5 or a T4 is only limited to 1GB because Yamaha don't sell a larger expansion board!

The German company MUTEC sell a 2GB board which works in a T5 or T4, although in the case of a T4 it still can't get around the limitations of the OS regarding the maximum available Wave Counts etc.   The T5 is not limited by such constraints and the full 2GB is addressable on both T5 and T4.  The board also works with the MOTIF XF, and because this has two expansion slots, up to 4 GB of space could be available.

I don't know what the address limit is on either keyboard, presumably there is one, but at moment 2GB is the largest board available.

http://www.mutec-net.com/product_fmc-567.php

Of course if Yamaha did ever release a board larger than 1GB I doubt if many people could afford it at their inflated prices!  :o


Regards

Ian
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 03:41:25 PM by tyrosaurus »
 

Offline pjd

Re: S770/S970 internals and a new tone generator chip
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2015, 06:56:36 AM »
Hello Ian --

Thanks for mentioning the Mutec board.

I took a look at the T5 service manual. The tone generator (SWP51L) has two independent memory channels (i.e., separate address and data bus) to wave memory. Each address bus is 29 bits wide and each data bus is 16 bits wide. So, if I have the maths right:

    512 MWords * 2 channels * 2 bytes/word = 2GBytes maximum

This is a mess'o'pins, by the way -- 90 wires for address and data plus the odd control signals. The new wave memory interface uses 16 data/address pins plus 8 control signals for 24 pins. Unfortunately, this appears to be offset by the "wave work" memory that caches wave data. (I'm still trying to digest the patent related to the compression algorithm.)

Market demand is pressing them for more preset and user wave capacity. The new flagships need to provide more than 2GB, because, well, more is better! Get those credit cards out.  :) :) :)

-- pj

P.S. The 8Gbit memory device in the S970 is the Spansion S34ML08G101TFI000. Spansion has a 16Gbit device in production with the same footprint as the 8Gbit IC. I have a fondness for Spansion -- I used to each lunch in their cafe when I was down in Austin.  :D The ICs are better than the food and possibly heathier.

Offline hoang tam

Re: S770/S970 internals and a new tone generator chip
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2017, 09:38:07 AM »