Author Topic: Tyros 5 - storage/memory question  (Read 11430 times)

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Labra

  • Guest
Tyros 5 - storage/memory question
« on: September 19, 2014, 08:08:14 AM »
Dear all -

I have just upgraded from PSR S910 straight to Tyros 5. Got a question regarding all the expansion options.

I assume T5 has a fixed amount of RAM. OK, so far so good. In addition:

1. The keyboard has a 500GB HDD.
2. There is a USB slot for a USB stick - I can connect a 32GB disk on key there.
3. Despite the wonderful storage options listed above, Yamaha still tries to make me shell out more money by tempting me to by a 1GB FLASH MEMORY EXPANSION MODULE. Another $300 or so.
DO I NEED IT? Apparently the device needs more RAM, not just a larger storage, to keep certain files that will be used in real time: no time to call them up from a HDD.

But... Isn't there a cheat/trick/hack that would allow me to declare a portion of the HDD (or the entire DOK) as RAM? Sort of a virtual memory/swap file, like a Windows-based PC does when there is not enough RAM. That would be nice.

Please share the wisdom.

L
 

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: Tyros 5 - storage/memory question
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2014, 10:33:40 AM »
Hi Labra,

You have more or less answered your question when you said... "Apparently the device needs more RAM, not just a larger storage, to keep certain files that will be used in real time: no time to call them up from a HDD".  The extra RAM that you refer to is the expansion memory board which is used to hold the wave samples that are used for expansion voices.

If you don't plan on using any expansion voices (Yamaha Premium Packs, third party custom voices, or your own custom voices) then you don't need the expansion memory.
 
The wave samples must be in fast memory (the built in waves are in ROM for example), and in order to avoid having to reload the expansion voice samples into volatile RAM each time the power is turned on, the Tyros5 and 4 use nonvolatile flash RAM which is much more expensive than normal dynamic RAM, although Yamaha are still having a laugh charging what they do for their expansion boards!

Although the hard disk in a Tyros4 (and I assume a T5 too) is a standard 2.5 inch laptop SATA drive, it is actually connected to the system internally via USB,  using a SATA to USB interface card fixed to the disk drive, and this limits the transfer speed.  Even if you replaced the standard mechanical disk with a SSD, the transfer speed would still be limited by the USB interface.

A computer OS such as Windows can use a 'page file' on the system hard disk if it runs out of physical RAM for an application.  This will slow things down,  but it shouldn't really matter for such things as word processing and the like,  but it could cause problems if you are using virtual instruments for example, which really need to be fully loaded into real physical RAM.  In many circumstances adding extra RAM to reduce the use of a page file is one of the most cost effective things that you can do to improve your computer's performance.

The Tyros OS has no provision for using a page file on the hard drive.  In fact Yamaha keyboards are self contained units in terms of the OS which is completely held internally in non volatile memory, and is not loaded from the hard disk (most of them don't even have a hard disk).  The hard disk on a Tyros is mostly just used as a store for  non preset files such as styles, registrations, voice edits etc., and the keyboard can run perfectly well without it apart from the Audio Recording function (which can only be done to the hard drive),  as I discovered recently when the interface card on my T4 hard disk failed!   I have now fixed the problem, but I used the keyboard for a couple of weeks without a hard disk, using a USB stick to hold files that were previously accessed from the hard drive.

So the 'wisdom' is, if you want to use expansion (Custom) voices,  you need to buy and fit an expansion memory board.   :'(


Regards

Ian
« Last Edit: September 19, 2014, 10:38:43 AM by tyrosaurus »
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Tyros 5 - storage/memory question
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2014, 11:15:05 AM »
You will also need to download the Yamaha Expansion Manager programme to your computer to load these voices into your Tyros 5. There is also an update for it expected very shortly.

Offline Constrictor

Re: Tyros 5 - storage/memory question
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2014, 11:57:53 AM »
Hi Labra
the Yamaha is not stupid.
I think the Flash Memory FL1024M, not only contains the sounds of the Premium Pack (or other objects),
but Some of his contacts communicate with other parts of the keyboard to get the timbre [/ b],
which is a Hard Disk NOT can do.
Hello.
constrictor

Labra

  • Guest
Re: Tyros 5 - storage/memory question
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2014, 04:22:44 PM »
OK, I got it.

Many thanks for the explanation - especially to tyrosaurus for taking the time to explain things so succinctly.

I am not interested in downloading more voices than T5 already carries. What I am interested in is creating my own styles, as the ones available on the board are not suitable for my purposes and need to be requthored. (I have no idea how to, so this may eventually become a new thread, "How do I create a new style using the resources already on the T5?" - but this can wait a few days)

Will this require an expansion memory module, or is the existing configuration good enough? In other words, how many user styles can be stored on a standard T5?

Thanks in advance -

L
 

Offline Marcus

Re: Tyros 5 - storage/memory question
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2014, 04:51:36 PM »
OK, I got it.

Many thanks for the explanation - especially to tyrosaurus for taking the time to explain things so succinctly.

I am not interested in downloading more voices than T5 already carries. What I am interested in is creating my own styles, as the ones available on the board are not suitable for my purposes and need to be requthored. (I have no idea how to, so this may eventually become a new thread, "How do I create a new style using the resources already on the T5?" - but this can wait a few days)

Will this require an expansion memory module, or is the existing configuration good enough? In other words, how many user styles can be stored on a standard T5?

Thanks in advance -

L

Hi Labra
Expansion memory is only for Premium Yamaha voice packs, third party voices, or Custom Voice and Custom Drum Kits you made in Voice Creator or transferred from your previous Tyros model.

Styles can be saved in the User drive, Hard drive, or USB drive. So really unlimited storage for your styles, plus styles take very little memory.
Only suggestion is to save the User drive for Audio Style saves only, since this drive capacity is small and will only hold about 100 styles. Audio style saves because Yamaha will only allow Audio Style saves to the User drive. Hope this helps.

Marcus
Gear: Triangle
"Extremely Happy with Genos"
 

Labra

  • Guest
Re: Tyros 5 - storage/memory question
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2014, 04:59:39 PM »
Thanks, Marcus! (and now I know what the next topic will be: "What is an Audio Style?" Because I have not learned it yet, either...)

Bottom line: no need to buy a flash memory expansion module. Thanks, folks, you have just saved me $300. :)

L
 

Offline Marcus

Re: Tyros 5 - storage/memory question
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2014, 05:13:02 PM »
If you are not interested in adding any new voices you probably will not need the Expansion flash memory.

Audio style are different from the regular midi type because the drum track is an actual real drum session recorded to an audio file. Time stretch technology allows tempo changes within a set range which is in synch with the rest of the midi style tracks.

I suggest relaxing in your favorite chair with your favorite beverage and reading completely through the Tyros user manual to get familiar with all its features and then post any questions or issues you might encounter. If you don't have a copy, an online version is available through Yamaha support for your model.

Marcus
Gear: Triangle
"Extremely Happy with Genos"
 

Labra

  • Guest
Re: Tyros 5 - storage/memory question
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2014, 11:39:35 AM »
I think I already have a question - related to my migration from PSR S910 to Tyros 5-76, so I am not sure whether this is the right place to ask it - but I will still give it a try.

Before selling the PSR, I would like to make and keep a copy of the style files that came with it. To do so, I would need to connect via USB and copy.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out how to make the PSR visible to my PC as a USB device. The latest USB-MIDI driver is installed. No go. What am I doing wrong? Should I try to turn it on while holding down Music Finder, like with tyros?

TIA (thanx in advance)

L
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Tyros 5 - storage/memory question
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2014, 11:53:00 AM »
Just put your USB stick into your 910 keyboard and copy the styles to that. Now take the USB stick and put it into your Tyros 5 and copy and paste them to your Hard Drive.

Labra

  • Guest
Re: Tyros 5 - storage/memory question
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2014, 12:03:52 PM »
Just put your USB stick into your 910 keyboard and copy the styles to that. Now take the USB stick and put it into your Tyros 5 and copy and paste them to your Hard Drive.

One by one? Or is there a way of batch-copying them?

L
 

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: Tyros 5 - storage/memory question
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2014, 12:45:31 PM »
The preset files on a 910 can't be seen on a computer.   Even on a T5, the 'USB Storage Mode' will only show the contents of the internal hard disk on a computer, although you could use this to copy/paste the 910 files all in one go from the USB stick to the T5 hard disk.

However you shouldn't have to copy each style individually from the 910.

From the style selection screen, you should be able to copy the style category folders with their contents by pressing 'UP' (upper 8 button) until you can see the category folders themselves.

Press COPY and select a folder. The PASTE icon will light up as soon as you move off the PRESET tab.

Try copying one folder to check that the contents are also copied (I don't have a 910 so I can't be sure that this works),  if it works then you can try copying several or even all folders at once

If copying folders does not copy the contents, then open a folder, press 'COPY' and 'ALL'.  This will select all files in that folder, even ones that are listed on other pages.



Regards

Ian
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 12:52:13 PM by tyrosaurus »
 

Labra

  • Guest
Re: Tyros 5 - storage/memory question
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2014, 01:11:46 PM »
One by one? Or is there a way of batch-copying them?

L

Disregard my previous please: I figured it out. Takes some careful reading thru the interface to find the Copy>>All>>OK... :(

And no the Big Laugh: I am  technical writer by profession. Looks like the ability to write technical documents (and mine are for satellite communication systems!) does not necessarily mean a parallel ability to READ through such documents. :(

L
 

Labra

  • Guest
Re: moving PSR S910 styles to Tyros 5 (Was: storage/memory question)
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2014, 01:26:01 PM »
OK, now I have the PSR S910 styles on a DOK. Next move: can I just stick the stick (pun intended) into my Tyros and try using these styles as is - or do I need to cook them first using some sort of a convertor software?

L
 

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: Tyros 5 - storage/memory question
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2014, 02:00:53 PM »
The native style format on your T5 is SFF-GE (aka SFF2) whereas on the 910 it was SFF (aka SFF1).  However your T5 can load both types.

The 910 styles should load and play fine on your T5.  You might want to change some of the voices used for the style parts but you don't have to.

You can either copy them to the T5 hard drive or leave them on the USB stick and select them from there.  If you intend to make use of them, especially in registrations, then the massive T5 hard drive is the obvious place to keep them.


BTW.  I assume that by 'DOK' you mean a USB storage device, but what does the acronym stand for?


Regards

Ian
 
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 02:02:19 PM by tyrosaurus »
 

Labra

  • Guest
Re: Tyros 5 - storage/memory question
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2014, 02:40:37 PM »
Copied to the HDD - and they play fine. :)

DOK stands for Disk On Key which is one of many ways of naming the USB stick. The right, politically-correct way would probably be "removable, non-volatile, flash-memory-based USB storage device" - but as you might get tired of reading before reaching the end, DOK is probably a faster way of saying the same. :)

L
 

Offline Macdavey

  • Avid Piano, KB performer, part time
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Re: Tyros 5 - storage/memory question
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2018, 10:10:52 PM »
Do I need the ram expansion to store a larger amount of music finder files?  I tried to append some downloaded music finder entries and got a message saying out of memory and only have 2300 entries?  With a 500gb hard drive, I would assume music finder database is stored on hard drive and not in ram

Any comments?
(new) Tyros 5, Yamaha Motif XS rack, Roland Integra, Muse Receptor, Korg Kronos, Hammond B3, Leslie 122, Hammond XK3c, Roland RD2000, Studio One Pro, Logic X etc...
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Tyros 5 - storage/memory question
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2018, 11:07:04 PM »
Music finder files will only hold so many in one file. When it tells you it is full you need to save it and then clear it and make a new one. Save this when finished. Then you can swap from one to the other by quickly loading the one you want.