Author Topic: Virtual Guitarist...  (Read 7991 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Dusan

Virtual Guitarist...
« on: January 31, 2014, 01:30:53 AM »
If I look in the past from PSR 9000 antil today to Tyros 5, I thing we cant mising
a fact about Guitar struming in Styles...

Its look like big problem in all manufacturer from Roland,Korg and Yamaha.Ketron fined
a solution for that part of Style with Audio paterns or Audio lups.That paterns sounds
wery realistic like Drumer in Yamaha Audio files in Style.That is a big step ahed to make
Styles more realistic.But that is not a point...

Just want to know whay is so dificult to make good Guitar struming with Midi ?With Style
Creator in last top Yamaha kayboard we cant make Guitar struming in diferent  music styles,
but can make Arpegos with Guitar.If you look deply in styles most  of them has some Guitar
arrpegos and just some of them has real good struming.For my taste that struming files has no right
"akcent"in beat.You cant hear haw Virtual Guitaris make struming up or down, or moving hand
up and down...With that Midi solution Style sound no realistic and with no right acent in the beat.

Cos some time "Lees is More" I turn off some instruments in Style to try make more realistic sound,
but Guitar struming is so incorect...(depends on music genre)

Finaly,I want to know is some one on that world build a realy good Virtual Midi Gutarist,who looks like
some Midi module with paterns from diferent music genre?

Regards


Dušan


If you want to fly,you must first walk....
 

Offline Rick D.

Re: Virtual Guitarist...
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2014, 02:00:00 AM »
Dusan,

You can create your own guitar strums in Style Creator.

I have made a couple myself, it was not too difficult, just follow the instructions in the manual.

This is what the mega voices are for.

Maybe someone could point him toward a video of how to do this, as I have to get to work right now!

Rick D.
 

Offline Dusan

Re: Virtual Guitarist...
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2014, 03:04:58 AM »
Dusan,

You can create your own guitar strums in Style Creator.

I have made a couple myself, it was not too difficult, just follow the instructions in the manual.

This is what the mega voices are for.

Maybe someone could point him toward a video of how to do this, as I have to get to work right now!

Rick D.



Thanks Rick for your respond,

I dont say: we cant do Guitar srum in Style Creator.I am talking about teme,haw to make
Guitar struming more realistic.In the mid time I asck ,if some hardware or software can do
that bether...

Video tutorial can be mor then welcome...
Dušan


If you want to fly,you must first walk....
 

Offline kbrkr

Re: Virtual Guitarist...
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2014, 04:03:59 AM »
I totally agree with you Dusan.  It is very difficult to simulate guitar strumming on piano keys.  I would love to see Yamaha expand Audio Styles to include both Guitars AND Bass like they do on the Audya.  It would really enhance the "Feel" of the style.

Until Yamaha fixes the Audio Looping in the Multi-Pads, I don't think we can record our own Guitar audio styles.

I like the way your thinking!!!

Al
 

Offline Dusan

Re: Virtual Guitarist...
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2014, 05:23:36 AM »
I totally agree with you Dusan.  It is very difficult to simulate guitar strumming on piano keys.  I would love to see Yamaha expand Audio Styles to include both Guitars AND Bass like they do on the Audya.  It would really enhance the "Feel" of the style.

Until Yamaha fixes the Audio Looping in the Multi-Pads, I don't think we can record our own Guitar audio styles.

I like the way your thinking!!!

Al

Haw things look like in last days or years,Audio loops is a solution like Ketron do more then five years ago.
Ketro also dont give as a chance to make your own audio loops and we cant expect Yamaha will do.
If you look bether on Yamaha Audio Style you even cant save that kinde of style in HD.This way Yamaha
defend hes rights...So we cant expect that kinde solution in thous future years...
I only see bether or maby faster solution in some kinde of "Virtual Midi Guitarist" wher ordinary user can in not so
dificult way create a Guitar strum like he desire or simply use a preloadet files...

Yamaha dont give as jet a Sound Creator for Tyros 5 and maby is now a chance to implement that kinde of solution in that new
software who comming to as somewhere in Sumer this year...(if com....)
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 05:28:26 AM by Dusan »
Dušan


If you want to fly,you must first walk....
 

Offline MBedesem

Re: Virtual Guitarist...
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2014, 05:26:34 AM »
Dusan:

For many years we were fortunate to have Chris Bell contributing regularly to the site and he is in the performer section. One of Chris's great talents was being able to to play the keyboard as a guitar.

I was entranced. So I saved as many as I could (at some point he started numbering and was well into the 300's). I do not know how many of these have survived elsewhere.  He still visits from time to time, e.g. just this month,  (http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php?topic=19397.msg135050#msg135050 ), but this was a audio file, not a midi.

To get a feel for what can be done with the PSR as a guitar (I believe he was using a PSR-2000), I have attached a sampling of his guitar midis.

I think you will agree that Chris has mastered the technique.

Regards,

Michael

Michael P. Bedesem
mpb@vermontel.net
http://psrtutorial.com/MB/bedesem.html
Tyros 5
 
The following users thanked this post: Graham UK, bmarcill

Offline Dusan

Re: Virtual Guitarist...
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2014, 05:39:57 AM »
Michael,
you are right,Chris is an person who play Guitar unbelive on kayboard kays,but he is
not allone.There are more guys who play Guitar on kays bether then original Guitarist on guitar.

You are a right person to explain,whay is so dificult to make Guitar struming on kayboard and
if is pasable to make software user frendly to give as a result who can be near real guitar struming.

Regards
Dušan


If you want to fly,you must first walk....
 

Offline MBedesem

Re: Virtual Guitarist...
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2014, 06:16:52 AM »
Dusan

If you can, pick a couple of measures from one of Chris's midis for me to study as an example, and I will see what might be done.

Regards,

Michael
Michael P. Bedesem
mpb@vermontel.net
http://psrtutorial.com/MB/bedesem.html
Tyros 5
 

Offline Bill Grosse

Re: Virtual Guitarist...
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2014, 06:32:12 AM »
You have to use both hands to play guitar on a single voice because you can on an actual guitar
with just one finger play two notes over 3 octaves apart.  ;) :D :D

I'm just sayin'!  8)

Chris is a master at these keyboards and another great keyboard guitar player - Julio Cazes.  :)

Bill G

I wasn't going to do anything today - so far, I'm on schedule, :)
 

Offline DrakeM

Re: Virtual Guitarist...
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2014, 07:35:45 AM »
I agree with the two examples of Julio and Chris have proven what can be done as a guitarist on the keyboard. I don't think they have ever offered tips as to "how to do it".

I am still learning how and when to bend notes while playing and I have experimented with creating lead guitar licks to use in PHR 1 &2.

The strumming patterns, I think are "good enough" and plentiful. Sometimes you need to turn every thing in the style off, except for the drums, bass and CHD 1&2, in order to hear the strum pattern . I have always found something worth using, remember there are almost 1000 Yamaha styles to review alone with 4 parts in each of them.

If you are thinking about creating your own strumming pattern in the Style Creator, I suggest you slow the style WAY DOWN when you begin recording. Then plan on using BOTH the CHD 1&2 spots. I have noticed that Yamaha even does this in some styles.

I play country music and the guitar is a BIG part of the style and I don't really have an issue finding a strum, it's the PHR 1&2 that I have an issue with.

Regards
Drake
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 07:37:37 AM by DrakeM »
 

Offline Marcus

Re: Virtual Guitarist...
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2014, 07:47:06 AM »
The easiest method I use to get guitar tracks I like in a style is simply borrowing a good guitar part from style and reassembling it into the style I want for creating. Even with the styles just on the a Tyros 5, there are hundreds of style guitar parts, plus already programmed with guitar effects and proper velocity levels with the Mega voices which then again can be changed to other Mega guitar voices.

If a strumming part is close, but not quite right, you can adjust both the Groove and it's Dynamics in Style creator. Note that these changes affect the whole style, but it won't matter, you only want to affect only the chosen guitar part. Temporarily save the modified style with the adjusted guitar part. Then reassemble that guitar part from that temporary style save and reassemble it into your style in Style Creator and save.

I have boughten a couple of Yamaha Style for just certain style parts I can borrow. Yamaha does the best programming for their own styles; there are hundreds more online where you can listen for a guitar part you may be looking for. Recording your own guitar parts is very difficult to sound real from a keyboard interface. A few bucks for a really good style is sometimes worth the time and aggravation trying to get good guitar tracks. I am not that knowledgable enough with guitar to know what I am doing, but I know what sounds good or real from a style.

Another option, if you have an iPad, is during a guitar app. One with midi capabilities. Strum your guitar parts to your style tempo and record the midi track or course with the correct chord for the overall style. Never done this, but the strumming with be more realistic plus the apps are generally velocity and pressure sensitive to your strumming. Check out a few free ones. Here is just one demo I linked to get the idea.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=plpp&v=f5j-_0TRoM4&list=PLD1E7531FDE3E0434

Marcus
 

angelonyc

  • Guest
Re: Virtual Guitarist...
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2014, 08:42:46 AM »
I'd like to point out if you use a computer, there is REAL Guitar.. http://www.musiclab.com/products/realguitar/info.html

It is a plug-in, for you DAW and does create pretty realistic guitar picking and strumming.. It needs two sources, one is chords (which would be your left hand.. The 2nd source is it's patterns, it has a large number of them.. You drag them from the pattern box and put them on one track of your sequencer, and the other track, is the chords your left hand is playing..

I know this is probably not the solution you are looking for, you wanted to do it inside the machine) but I'm speculating you could create a part and record it into Tyros and make an audio file you played along with.. (haven't tried it - not sure_
 

Offline Dusan

Re: Virtual Guitarist...
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2014, 10:35:32 AM »
Thaks guys for discusion.

In link you can see and hear what I espect from top kayboard
about guitar struming.

That file I record a feu years ago in my DAW directly from kayboard with
my woice.File is not changet at all and its just like coming out from
my fingers.Allso you can wach anather two file with name:"Malinkonija and Vila"

Fell free to coment....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLM_K47cS90
Dušan


If you want to fly,you must first walk....
 

Offline Yinon

Re: Virtual Guitarist...
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2014, 12:05:53 PM »
Hi Dusan,

Not sure if anyone here touched it but did you try the multi pads strumming?
There is quite few strumming styles and guitars and to me these are very realistic.

(Not sure if these are translated to MIDI though)

 

Offline Marcus

Re: Virtual Guitarist...
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2014, 05:10:44 PM »
Thaks guys for discusion.

In link you can see and hear what I espect from top kayboard
about guitar struming.

That file I record a feu years ago in my DAW directly from kayboard with
my woice.File is not changet at all and its just like coming out from
my fingers.Allso you can wach anather two file with name:"Malinkonija and Vila"

Fell free to coment....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLM_K47cS90

Dusan, you are quite a talented performer. Loved your videos. Didn't understand the language, but beautifully done.

On your Oda Ireni the guitar parts sounded more like arpeggios than strumming, but very realistic. I agree with Yinon, there are plenty of nice guitar Multipads with strumming and arpeggios, plus you can change up the guitar voices and DSP effects if you like.

Your other two songs, Makinkonija and Modrijani Jadram the vocal harmonies were very nice. Did you just overdub the harmonies or did a second person sing the harmonies. Very professional recordings.

I am sure your Tyros 5 will serve you well into the future.

Marcus
 

Offline Dusan

Re: Virtual Guitarist...
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2014, 02:55:12 AM »
Thank you Marcus,

Song Jadram from Modriani is not my interpretation but song Vila...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIHi65qmdKk

"Oda Ireni" its Slovenian song from early 60s and talk about child
who died just 6 years old...song writed shes real father...
Behind Guitar arpego is a real struming guitar in that sound peacture.

Malinkonija is tipical Mediteranien song in Croatian lenguage recordet
with my old Tyros1.I used unboard Vocal harmony with female voice
who parcitipate my lovly wife...

In song Vila you can hear a real soft guitar struming who give in sound picture
an special fill in style.Allso used unboard Vocal harmony....

First and third song are sang in Slovenian lenguage....

My two anather performences is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgiNsWQjGE4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5dwp9G9SnQ

Buth are recorded with Tyros 1...

« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 03:39:30 AM by Dusan »
Dušan


If you want to fly,you must first walk....
 

Re: Virtual Guitarist...
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2017, 08:08:16 AM »
I would like to buy a library of "real" guitar strum patterns if possible (maybe played on a midi guitar)
 

Offline Dusan

Re: Virtual Guitarist...
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2017, 11:01:16 PM »
Hm...I would like to buy too,but cant find nowhere...
Maby Yamaha inplement virtual guitarist in a new kayboard of the end of this year...will see...
and more inportant feature:"DRUM MIXER".That is what I mising on my T5
I am still engry on guitar struming Style's like it is now...
Dušan


If you want to fly,you must first walk....