PSR Tutorial Forum
Genos (12 Boards) => Genos - General => Topic started by: myzone1958 on March 08, 2023, 10:40:11 PM
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Hello ,hope all is doing well . I have not been on this sight for sometime . I would like to ask if anyone has some links to Praise and worship songs played on the Genos. Since the pandemic hit we lost half of our congregation. Choir has been lost and all those who played in the praise and worship group have left since the pandemic. We have Andrew who is the music director and keyboard player and we have one man and women who sing and one another man who I can barley hear on the guitar .I have confronted a deacon and explained to him the Genos and how it could benefit in bringing the praise and worship team back to life. I was then ask if I would come to the next deacon and elders meeting to explain the Genos to them and how it would benefit the church. So I am trying to gather all the information and I can along with music video . I have checked on You Tube and just found a few. I need more demos showing the keyboard in action with praise and worship songs. So if anyone could be of help I would gladly appreciate it. Nice to see that this sight is alive an still running
Thank You ! Greg
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Hello Greg
It's been awhile for sure, good to see you online again.
These are not on a Genos but on a PSR S-950 and PSR 2000 keyboard. So a Genos keyboard might sound better (maybe).
Rain Down
https://app.box.com/s/gonjzmlha12zt3p6qtspjc0jpd98rdh1
Mary Did You Know
https://app.box.com/s/zut4lr380juvz1f6rfpkgzjff7k3fqv6
You Are Mine
https://app.box.com/s/dpr12un766umbyn09u2jbfzcb3w81g0c
Always Be A Child
https://app.box.com/s/pbrx9x19f1zlk752x1h6kw337bcnpsrf
Watch the Lamb
https://app.box.com/s/bg9hn4fvvbn66k03tbxlg27mzfilshmr
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Hey Drake great to hear from you also. I will download these they will come in useful. Watch the Lamb ,never heard that one before that was great ! I need there particular songs so I can present it to the deacons https://youtu.be/KBD18rsVJHk https://youtu.be/6CKCThJB5w0 https://youtu.be/OHBGtDwZY2k https://youtu.be/XtwIT8JjddM If anyone can record these on their genos I would really appreciate it. Thank You !
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Hi Greg
Not sure if the Expansion pack called
Church and Christmas is on your Genos, but if not there are some nice Worship and Gospel styles there for you to use or adapt.
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How soon do you need them?
I have played 'You Raise Me Up' for a funeral about 6 months ago, so I could probably dust that one off quickly. I don't know the others off-hand, but provided I can find the music for them, I'm sure I could learn them fairly quickly.
Would .mp3 recordings be ok? I'm not sure about recording video and definitely not sure about posting to youtube.
I should also mention that I provide the Music Ministry for our small Catholic Church. I use a Genos for this purpose. Besides me playing/singing, there are five other ladies in the choir.
I like the Genos because of the flexibility it gives me. I play from melody line and chords (fakebook style) and use the Genos' features to fill out the music. I can approximate the sound of a full organ, to full orchestra, or go simple to just a guitar strumming chords.
Adam Parker
(edited for more information)
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Hello Ac Parker, Thanks you for the quick response. I think the church board meeting would probably be a week or 2 away ,they have not set a date as of yet when they would like me to present my thoughts on Genos as being apart of the church music. As far as Video that would have to be done on You Tube but you would need a camera for that but if you don't care to figure that out the MP3 would work just fine. If you go over listening to the videos links I sent if you could try to use the same drums or what ever other instruments are being used and try to work that into the Genos to duplicate the songs .I would really be anxious to hear the results on your Genos. As stated before since the covid hit half the church members never returned and they lost the choir and members of the praise the worship team. So at the meeting I would like to present some demos for the board to hear so they can get an idea what I am talking about because believe it or not most churches don't use the genos because I think they nothing about all this new Technology. If it does come to pass the I am able to convince them that the Genos is the way to go it will be recorded because our church records their services so I would be able to share this will the forum here. Andrew is out music director and plays the keyboard very well and is well capable of playing the genos . I am going to tell them at the board meeting that if they are hoping a 4 piece band is going to walk through those church doors I highly doubt that so this is why I think Genos would take over very quickly. And when it comes to solos the Genos would be great ! So it saying off of this yes go right ahead and see what you can do for us . Keep me posted thank you much !
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I should also mention that I provide the Music Ministry for our small Catholic Church. I use a Genos for this purpose. Besides me playing/singing, there are five other ladies in the choir.
I like the Genos because of the flexibility it gives me. I play from melody line and chords (fakebook style) and use the Genos' features to fill out the music. I can approximate the sound of a full organ, to full orchestra, or go simple to just a guitar strumming chords.
Adam Parker
Adam
My parish priest told me, only live musicians are aloud in the church choir. He in fact kicked out the entire Guitar Choir out from our Saturday mass.
Where abouts do you live that it is so different?
Drake
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Hey all
To think a Genos would bring people back to the congregation is wishful thinking that has no reality.
Sorry but I couldn't resist commenting.
Tommy
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Hey all
To think a Genos would bring people back to the congregation is wishful thinking that has no reality.
Sorry but I couldn't resist commenting.
Tommy
What a stupid comment that does not do anything to help the request.
Sorry but I couldn't resist commenting.
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Oymmot there has been a shift in the churches in the last 15 years not all but some and in order to get the attention of the younger generation praise and Worship is where it's going. The younger generation will eventually have to take over this church or the older generation will die with the church and it will end. Will it draw them in that does remain to be seen but something is better then nothing and for those who are there an remain I feel the Genos would be uplifting to the congregation that is there. We also sing traditional songs also which I grew up with. So they try to take the middle ground to capture both generations. The genos is an incredible keyboard which is well balanced and fits into the smallest space. I was joking with one of the deacons and said they need to take that knuckle busting piano and take it outside and roll it down the hill . HA HA !!! If they do decide to go with the genos the church is going to be in for a big surprise if they hear it live. Some of the churches around me have live musicians but to be trueful I think the genos can out perform them. The church bands have no dynamics and dramatic feel to it. Genos is like an entire orchestra ,Big Band and the list goes on. It is one incredible instrument I must say. Andrew the music director thought the Genos was a lot of money. Well that depends if you divide the cost among all the congregation really if you break it down it's not a lot of money . For a single person to buy yes it is a lot of money but that also depends on a persons income and what they can afford. The music director at church would be very foolish if he rejects using it. Hopefully I will be able to convince them to Purchase in the very near future .
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Ok, I will undertake two of them, since only have music for those two in my archive. They are "You Raise Me Up" and "How Great Is Our God".
I will do my best to orchestrate them similar to the videos, but they won't be one-to-one. Send me a private message when you have a time frame. As you know, it's coming up to Easter, and with the extra Masses, I've got a lot to work on, but I shall do my best.
Adam Parker
Drake: I sent you a Private Message in response to your inquiry.
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Hi Greg, I have the Genos and MODX 7. I am the only musician in our Anglican church apart from a lady who plays the organ and piano for traditional hymns and songs every other week. So I record a backing track (e.g. 10,000 reasons - Bless the Lord O my soul) on the Genos and save it to a flash stick then play the backing through the MODX and play Piano over the top live in the service and lead the worship by singing and playing. The congregation seem to love it and a large number of them would prefer this to the traditional organ/piano. Hope this helps? regards, Stew
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https://app.box.com/s/tmumu6dzlfat6578vy96ji98ryocgxom
10000 reasens
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I can relate to many of the comments and experiences expressed here. I play MODX in church along with a pianist on acoustic piano and an acoustic guitar. (We all go through the PA.) Our repertoire consists of contemporary and sometimes traditional hymns.
During the pandemic, I recorded some demos with Genos: http://sandsoftwaresound.net/what-did-you-do-in-self-isolation/
I had to do something to keep skills up because our parish had shut down and went video-only. Only piano and cantor were allowed and I was sitting on my hands. (Like everybody else.)
Several of the tunes use Genos preset styles. Honestly, it was a matter of finding ballad, pop, whatever style that fit the tune. It's a chance to be creative as a (human) arranger. :) The demo page has a few notes about process, styles, and so forth.
Hope this helps a little bit -- pj
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https://app.box.com/s/lnmvg3c0hypt7kumsuh3jibd9id6q7mt
Here I am to worship
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https://youtu.be/-NdxXvJyRvc
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My parish priest told me, only live musicians are aloud in the church choir. He in fact kicked out the entire Guitar Choir out from our Saturday mass.
Where abouts do you live that it is so different?
Hi Drake --
I've been there with a pastor or two. Man, over time, it changes like the wind. Had one pastor who was all on-board with contemporary music (Sarah Hart, Rick Monalo, Steve Angrisano, Curtis Stephan, ...) and had another priest who wanted to re-introduce chant. Seriously. Parish was outside Boston.
My current parish (outside Seattle) is multi-cultural having services in English, Spanish, Vietnamese, Tagalog. I really dig the Spanish group since we hear them as we show up for our own time slot. Our group is mainly contemporary with acoustic piano, acoustic guitar, me on synth and occasionally a drummer or trumpet.
I'm getting old enough to walk with my feet. I ain't got that much time left to roll logs with stubborn clergy. :D
All the best -- pj
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https://youtu.be/Wr_nIeUQP5o
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Thanks for sharing all of those recordings! I had fun listening to them.
Here are direct links to the songs that I recorded using Genos.
-- pj
Alleluia! Love Is Alive (S. Angrisano/J. Manibusan/S. Hart)
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/AlleluiaLoveIsAlive.mp3
In The Day Of The Lord (M.D. Ridge)
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/InTheDayOfTheLord.mp3
Stop By, Lord (D.W. Bettis)
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/StopByLord.mp3
Psalm 95 If Today (T. Thomson)
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/IfToday_Thomson.mp3
Rise Up With Him (J. Vogt)
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/RiseUpWithHim.mp3
O Sacred Head (B. Hurd)
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/OSacredHead.mp3
Our God Is Here (C. Muglia)
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/OurGodIsHereVocal.mp3
This Is The Day (M. Hill and M. Monaco)
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/ThisIsTheDay.mp3
Lead Me, Lord (J. Becker)
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/LeadMeLord.mp3
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Hello all,
Because I play for a very Rural (and therefore spread out) Parish, getting everyone together for practices is nigh on impossible, so I record the hymns as I need them, and share them with the Choir so they can practice on their own.
These recordings are made directly on the Genos with my playing and singing, and then converted to MP3 in audacity. They are 'quick and dirty' recordings, and not really meant for mass consumption. (No pun intended.) But, I think it would help show just what is possible with the Genos in a Worship setting, so here goes:
[link removed]
Actually, I've changed my mind about posting it publicly. If you would like the link, please send me a private message.
Thank you.
Adam
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Thank You all for your contributions with your gospel performances much appreciated ,God bless !
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Here's one more to add to the list. This is a slower song/hymn, but very inspirational, in my opinion. The Genos is a great option for Gospel/Christian music. There are many excellent Styles you can use to get the beat you want for specific occasions. Fast, slow, medium, and a lot of nice organ sounds you can layer with other sounds like Piano, and Elec. Piano, Strings, etc., to create rich tones that can be quite breathtaking because of all the superb voices within the Genos Preset sounds and the Expansion packs which are now all free on the Yamaha Music Soft website which is now https://shop.usa.yamaha.com/downloadables.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVr9c49afcs
All the best, Mike
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I meet with the elders. I had a meeting with them .We all sat around the table to go over why I though the Genos would be a great asset to the Church. I handed them all an outline. One fellow ask me what does PSR stand for ! You know I was stumped . I have been on this sight many times and could not answer that questions. I was totally Embarrassed. Anyway the meeting closed and now I must meet with the Deacons on Tuesday. If they approve it then it must be brought before the congregation for a final approval. Last Sunday they one mic in the praise and worship had a horrible feedback and almost blew my ears out and the congregations . When I was at the meeting I brought this up in the very beginning. I said I know why there was such a feed back but that is another subject at another time . They got the speakers positioned off to the side on an angle and the guys mic is right near the speaker . Those speakers should be positioned in the front of them facing out and they should be standing behind the cabinets . Such a crazy set up.
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... the Expansion packs which are now all free on the Yamaha Music Soft website which is now https://shop.usa.yamaha.com/downloadables. ...
All the best, Mike
In order to download the "now free" Expansion Packs (Genos, Tyros5, PSR-Sx7x, PSR-SX), you no longer have to go the cumbersome way via the Yamaha MusicSoft site (shop.usa.yamaha.com). It is much easier to go to the following site:
>>> https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/contents/keyboards/vse/
By the way, depending on the country, slightly different/additional Packs may be available on these sites, e.g.
>>> https://asia-latinamerica-mea.yamaha.com/en/products/contents/keyboards/vse/index.html
>>> https://usa.yamaha.com/products/contents/keyboards/vse/index.html
>>> https://www.yamaha.com.cn/products/musical-instruments/vse/
Best regards,
Chris
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... One fellow ask me what does PSR stand for ! You know I was stumped . I have been on this sight many times and could not answer that questions. I was totally Embarrassed. ...
Hi Greg,
"PSR" stands for "PortaSound Regular" while "PSS" means "PortaSound Standard". :)
Best regards,
Chris
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One fellow ask me what does PSR stand for ! You know I was stumped . I have been on this sight many times and could not answer that questions. I was totally Embarrassed.
FYI
"PSR" stands for "PortaSound Regular."
"PSS" (which is sometimes seen among older used instruments) stands for "PortaSound Small."
"Regular" and "Small" refer to the sizes of the keys-- PSR models have regular-sized keys, whereas PSS models have miniature keys.
Older PSR models were usually just "PSR" followed by a number, but newer models are divided into the PSR-E and PSR-S lines.
The "E" in "PSR-E" stands for "Entry-level," but could also be read as "Educational," as the PSR-E models have the "Y.E.S." or "Yamaha Education Suite" feature.
The "S" in "PSR-S" stands for "Stage," as the PSR-S models are considered to be suitable for professional musicians.
PSR-S models have an implementation of XG, whereas PSR-E models have an implementation of XGlite.
"XG" stands for "eXtended General MIDI," Yamaha's extension of "GM" or "General MIDI."
("GM2" or "General MIDI Level 2" came later, hence GM is now also sometimes referred to as "GM1" or "General MIDI Level 1.")
"XGlite" is a "lite" version of "XG"-- it doesn't include all of the XG voices, and also omits some of the XG sound parameters and effects.
There are also several "localized" PSR models which use other letters, including-- but not limited to-- the following:
The "A" in "PSR-A" stands for "Arabic" or "Arabian."
The "B" in "PSR-B" stands for "Brazil" or "Brazilian."
The "I" in "PSR-I" stands for "India" or "Indian."
The "R" in "PSR-R" stands for "Russia" or "Russian."
The "VN" in "PSR-VN" stands for "VietNam" or "VietNamese."
The Portasound keyboards are/were also referred to as Portatone keyboards.
"YPT" stands for "Yamaha PortaTone."
The YPT models are equivalent to PSR-E models-- they generally share the same manuals-- e.g., the YPT-200 is equivalent to the PSR-E203.
A couple of the other Yamaha lines are as follows:
"DGX" apparently stands for "Digital Grand XG"-- although these models actually have an implementation of XGlite.
"YPG" stands for "Yamaha Portable Grand."
These are equivalent to each other-- they generally share the same manuals.
The DGX and YPG models differ from the PSR models in the number of keys-- the PSRs have 61 keys, whereas the DGX and YPG models have 76 or 88 keys.
The DGX and YPG models also differ from Yamaha's digital pianos-- their voices aren't as high-quality, but they have a lot more voices than the digital pianos.
The Tyros is essentially the ultimate or deluxe version of a PSR-S, as evidenced by their prices, number of voices, features, and capabilities.
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Well I went to the Deacon's meeting at Church. I presented my thoughts on how the Genos would benefit the music Ministry. All ears were open. The did not say no so they do have an open mind about it so that is a good sign. Now they want to confront the music director and ask him the question if the church would buy the Genos would he play it or let it sit and dust. As of now I know he is kind of set in his ways and does not like change. I think to put things in perspective he should do what the Deacons request if they so choose to want the Genos there. The question now is will he use it or refuse . Personally I think he would be very foolish to turn the Genos away. Keep in mind he is not only a member there but also employed there so he gets paid for what he does . I am just curious what is the average fee for a musician to walk in and sit down and play a keyboard say for an hour in a half on a Sunday morning that's with using the churches equipment ?
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I am just curious what is the average fee for a musician to walk in and sit down and play a keyboard say for an hour in a half on a Sunday morning that's with using the churches equipment ?
Don't think it works that way for most church musicians. They are usually required to pick the music, rehearse the choir, and other musicians, and be generally available. So they usually get a kind of stipend rather than paid hourly or by the service. Or in some cases they are volunteers and play free.
You might find your music director is strongly against using the Genos when the chips are down. Especially when they realize the learning curve.
Playing arrangers is not universally popular with all musicians. And also it might depend on what kind of musician they are. If they play only from sheet music that might not be suited to an arranger. I have played in churches, bands, clubs, pubs, studios ... with music, by ear, from lead sheets ....the lot. And I have played many different kind of keyboards so had little trouble adapting to arrangers. But most church musicians I knew could not do this. They are very 'straight' sheet music musicians. Not chord and lead players.
I wouldn't hold your breath on this working out the way you want.
Maybe you should consider pushing for a DGX, rather than a Genos. It does pretty much everything you would need in a church, sounds great, looks and feels a lot more like a conventional keyboard, - a piano player would be comfortable with it. And it is a much easier decision .... because its a fraction of the price of a Genos. The Genos contains way more functionality than is ever needed in a church. And in terms of quality most listeners would not be able to hear the difference.
And on another tack, I think you are kinds sticking your neck out that a TOTL arranger will somehow turn the church around. It’s expensive if it sits unused.The DGX is not. And believe me, the success or otherwise is not going to depend on it being a Genos rather than a DGX. If it’s going to be successful it will be successful with a DGX. What I definitely would not do to save cost is opt for a lower priced 61 key instrument. If your music director is less than enthusiastic, giving something he thinks looks like a toy keyboard is going to give him nay sayer ammunition.
Just a last thought, if you really believe an arranger wil save the situation’, then why don’t you buy a DGX and donate it to the church? That’s what I would do. They are not very expensive, - round $1000 - and it’s obviously a real instrument, not a toy. Then there is no big dollar commitment from the church, but the music director would feel obliged to try it. Maybe he then will fall in love with arrangers and he will push for a Genos! Or more likely, he will say, “this is great, we don’t need a Genos”. And he will likely be right.
Mike
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I find it hard to believe that a m1,000 key board would have the dynamics of the Geno's and the dramatic feel and theatrical realistic sound to it. Yes you are right a lot of people don't notice the detail but I do as my ear is critical.The other thing is we lost our choir when COVID hit and some band members .The Geno's would be a quick fix cause right now they only have a keyboard player. Yes has less keys but that does not make it a toy because of that. I'm sure he could adapt . The keyboard has a learning curve till he would get use to navigating around the controls. The sound on the Geno's is outstanding. It does cost a lot but if you break it down with all the supporters giving is not really a lot if you think about it. One person buying it yes.
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I am just curious what is the average fee for a musician to walk in and sit down and play a keyboard say for an hour in a half on a Sunday morning that's with using the churches equipment ?
As mikf pointed out, that is but a small part of the role of Musical Director. I would like to add Practice time. Practicing is a major component of my time commitment. I generally practice 1 1/2 to a couple of hours each day, taking Monday's off. And remember, it is different music each and every week. I work at least three weeks ahead. If I could get my choir to actually practice, it would be more. With Christmas and Easter, the workload can get really heavy. For example, when I head out to practice in an hour, I will be working on Music for: 5th Sunday In Lent, Palm Sunday, Holy Thursday, Good Friday, Easter Vigil and Easter Sunday.
Edit: Forgot to mention, that I am essentially 'on call' to do Funerals as they come up. So I practice those songs once or twice a week too. Never had a wedding yet, though.
Regarding your Musical Director's reticence to learn new things, I've (finally) reached the point after several years that my repertoire is large enough that I'm not learning 2 or 3 songs each week, just occasionally. Learning to play new music takes extra time of course, but so does Orchestrating them on the Genos. If it is a song with rhythms etc, it generally takes my 8 - 10 hours to build out a song's registration to where I'm happy with it. Once it is done, of course, I have it for the next time(s). As for the learning curve of the Genos, I'm *still* learning it after 4 years.
If the Deacons and the Church approve the purchase, please don't expect the Musical Director to bring it out the very next Sunday. Give him a couple of weeks to get up to speed. Remember that it's a big jump from the m1000 to the Genos. And he'll have to build the registrations for each song before he can play it.
Adam
PS> @Mikf. I did a Christmas Concert where I shared the Genos with a straight up Piano Player. We found that with the keyboard set to AI full keyboard, everything worked well, and he could use the rhythms and backing while playing full piano style.
A
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Hi Greg
I am a church musician playing contemporary and traditional songs, at the church we have a CVP 709 and at home I have a Genos and a DGX670. Most of the Hymns/Songs I arrange orchestrations on the Genos transfer the arrangements onto a usb stick then play the piano part on the CVP for the service.
If your musician is used to playing piano it may be worth considering a DGX670 as suggested above as they may feel more at home with a full size weighted keyboard. Although not up to Genos standard it does come very close to the specs of the current CVP701 piano. Alternatively perhaps even a used CVP709 with its built in excellent amplification. For congregations up to 100 I find it unnecessary to use PA.
God bless
Roy
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I have heard both the Genos and the DGX and yes it is as impressive when well played. There may be functionality in the Genos that is not in the DGX, but the sound is little different. Yes maybe if the exact same stuff was played thru the exact same sound system and they were compared side by side - maybe ( and I really mean maybe) - you could tell the difference. But in separate situations both just sound very good. And I am not just a normal listener, I am an experienced old professional keyboard player. And the DGX is definitely better are more comfortable to play for a pianist. Unless you are going to do some fancy sound creation stuff, the DGX is more than adequate.
When I said ‘toy’, I didn’t mean it was a toy, but that many experienced piano players might see it that way.
In all honesty I think you are letting your judgement be clouded. Maybe because you are a bit mesmerized by the Genos and would love to have one. I can assure you that the congregation will not be any more impressed by the Genos than the DGX in the hands of a decent musician. The key is not the model, it’s how how well it gets used.
Just think of the reaction of the deacons when you tell them you have come up with a better alternative at a fraction of the cost.
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mikp I appreciate you taking the time to talk this over with me. The problem is I have been at both the elders meeting and the Deacons meeting and spent a considerable amount of time bragging up the Genos. For me to go back and tell them any thing different now will make me look confused and unstable. I now how their attention and this Sunday one of the deacon's is going to be make an announcement in the beginning of the church service. I think one of the deacons is all ready considering donating money for the Genos and that could be announced also. I better let well enough alone while I got a good thing going. Perhaps the DGX would have been enough to fill the void .I did go on line to hear this DGX. I don't know I still think the Genos sounds much better and has more options that are available on the control panel. The sliders to access bringing instruments in and out at different volume levels and so forth. I do see your point on a conservative outlook and the DGX is not a bad instrument but if some one is willing to step up to the plate and come up with the cash and can afford to do it I will just let it run its coarse. I am not forcing anything on anyone I just presented my thoughts and was very impressed with the Genos with it's sounds and feature . I can see those features being used in praise and worship. Andrew is an experienced Player for sure and I do think he has the capability to operate . I did say at the meeting that I would not suggest investing in the Genos if I knew Andrew was not a professional cause for your average keyboard player it surly would be a waist of money. Here is a beautiful demo of Genos with instruments being brought in and out at will ---------> https://youtu.be/o8D_QL3N-is and here is another demo --------> https://youtu.be/0p5a1FTktsg
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Hello Greg
If you are moving forward with the Genos be sure you contact FRANK and get his quote. Also let him know you are a member here at the PSRTutoral site for his best offer.
https://audioproct.com/
Regards
Drake
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Drake where is he located ?
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Drake where is he located ?
That would be Frank Ventresca of AudioProCT https://audioproct.com/
The store is located in Milford, Connecticut (203) 806-5555
I have purchased two arranger keyboards via Frank and had a good experience each time.
-- pj
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Hi Greg --
Glad to see other experienced folks chime in. I've played with 20+ pianists (and a similar number of subs) at several parishes over the past 30 or so years. Mike makes good points about the average liturgical piano (keyboard) player. If someone comes in cold, they are likely to say "Where is the piano button?" Pianists who have a working knowledge of harmony (chords) can play from a lead sheet (melody plus chords), some pianists cannot because it requires a degree of improvisational skill.
I don't think you will be criticized if you say, "I know this is a big investment for the church, so let's take it slow(er)." It's good stewardship. After all, it's going to take time to adopt the technology in worship (maybe start with one auto-accompaniment hymn/song per week).
More importantly, it's going to take the right person to make the transition. Pianists vary widely as to technical skill, time, and willingness to engage with technology. That's why, most often, one gets the question, "Where is the piano button?" Whatever keyboard is chosen, it will take a committed individual who is willing to invest their time in making the transition happen.
In addition to the DGX-670 (a fine instrument), there are other Yamaha products that might fit the bill (CSP, CLP, CVP, P-S500). These instruments have auto-accompaniment, but have simplified the player interface. Physical appearance may be an issue, too, as I've had a few pastors who were very picky about the appearance of the sacristy! Piano action keyboards are familiar to more liturgical players. Some have moved auto-accompaniment controls to tablet software in order to make the player interface as simple as possible.
One additional suggestion is to involve the donor in the final decision. Sure, this all may take more time, but we are the living church and should all share in this together.
Hope my comments help -- pj
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PJD thanks for the info . My only concern is if the keyboard ever needs repair that would become an issue cause then the keyboard would have to be shipped back and I am not too crazy about shipping out something with the way things great broker in shipping. And even if you take out shipping insurance that does not guarantee your going to compensated. The closes place I know is Sam Ash in Kingaprussa ,Pa They sell them and do repairs there and the Church would not have to ship they could drive there and drop off if need be. Does that make sense ?
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Hi Greg --
Of course, it makes sense to think about repair. ("In the unlikely event of a water landing..." :) )
I used to live in central NJ and, later, outside Boston. I have similar concerns about shipping and would probably just hop in the car (from either Boston or Trenton) and drive I-95 to Milford. :D But, that's me.
Other than a return, a Yamaha keyboard would most likely need to go to a Yamaha repair center (for warranty work). I had a bad experience with Sam Ash in Cherry Hill. Took an 88-key stage piano for repair, and they lost my keyboard. Had to go around and around with them in order to get it replaced.
Frank V. would be much easier to work with...
Speaking of maintenance, a digital instrument would be much easier to maintain -- not temp/humidity sensitive like an acoustic instrument. Another question, would you connect the keyboard to the church sound system?
Wish you the best -- pj
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PJD Yes they have a sound system but once in a while they get terrible feed back and I think its because the two singers are to close to the speaker front . Really they should be behind the speakers . The guy behind the mixer did not cut off the feed back soon enough in my opinion . Gosh they could have blown out some ones ears . I mentioned to them they have to get that under control or they will have a law suit on their hands from blowing some ones ears out , I mean it was loud ! lol ! Sam Ash is a repair center . I guess it all depends who is managing the place. I wrote down Franks web sight and Phone # if they would care to deal with someone from another state. Depends on how much of a deal he would give the Church but yes I will let them know about him . Drake mentioned his name also. Thanks !
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I just got a call from one of the deacons from my church and he gave me word that an Anonymous donation of $500.00 was given to the church for the Purchase of the Genos Keyboard. They are going to make an announcement Sunday as to the Anonymous Donation and to present more information about the Genos and how it would bless the church Music ministry. So who knows how far it will go in contributions before its all over . Please keep Tri County Bible Church in your prayers concerning this . Thank You !
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What a stupid comment that does not do anything to help the request.
Sorry but I couldn't resist commenting.
Same for me Chris, but it all depends on who is singing "I could not resist"!!! ;D
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I wanted to inform you all that they made an announcement about the Purchase of the Yamaha Genos Keyboard. You can hear the announcement here ----->https://www.youtube.com/live/D9Gri1-7S_E?feature=share
Note if you don't want to hear the whole church service that is fine. What you can do is look at the red bar on the bottom and slide it up to 21:19 and it should take you to the announcement about the Genos to the congregation. Let me know if you got to that part . Thank you!
Greg
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I listened to the announcement from the pastor about the Genos. The Genos is a great flagship keyboard, no doubt about it. From the looks of it, you seem to have a somewhat smaller congregation and I realize a lot of smaller churches receive smaller offerings and $6,000 for a musical instrument like the Genos might be a burden on the congregants. It's a good sign though that you've already received $600 toward the purchase of a Genos. Another thing to consider is the Genos doesn't have internal speakers, so depending on your sanctuary sound system, you might not be able to hear yourself very well in the mix if you're playing along with other musicians. Internal speakers allow a keyboard player to hear what's being played on the keyboard, which can be really helpful, especially if you don't have stage monitors to help gauge the sounds in the overall mix. If you will be playing by yourself up on stage, etc., and the church sound system is adequate, then you should have no problem. Btw, a slimmed-down version of the Genos is the much less expensive Yamaha SX-900 arranger keyboard that has internal speakers if you want to save a few thousand dollars. Also, the new Genos2 arranger keyboard will probably be on the horizon in the not too distant future with an expectant release date in October/November 2023, or possibly at NAMM January 25-28, 2024. If your congregation eventually comes up with the money for the purchase of a Genos you might want to hold tight until the Genos2 is released and then compare both keyboards to see which one suits you best. FWIW, if and when a Genos successor is released, Yamaha will likely discount the remaining current Genos in stock, and you could save quite a bit of money in the process instead of shelling out bigger bucks for the Genos2 which will likely be more expensive than the current Genos, but only time will tell. Although, if past is prologue, then the Genos2 will likely be worth the extra cash vs. the current Genos, but at least you will have a choice which is nice.
All the best, Mike
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Hi Mike and thanks for your input. If I wanting to buy the Genos I would wait like you say but are church is in desperate need to upgrade the sound of the keyboard they have now . You see since Covid hit they lost all the musicians but the keyboard player and bass player. As of now things are dead in my opinion. There is no drum Section and no back round brass and so forth . I thought by introducing the Genos to the deacons there was a chance they would go for it. They are taking it slow and I am not fully sure if all the deacons or the congregation understands what the full capabilities of the Genos and what it can do . I am trying to breath new life into the praise and worship and I do think if they raise enough money and use it they will be in for a big surprise. Personally I think where they are singing is not the best spot cause he is singing in front of the speakers . I am not a big fan of that. I think they should be singing behind the speakers . Perhaps when they go to buy the genos I can encourage them to have the store manager send someone back to look over their sound system and make suggestions. I agree though waiting for a sale would be good but I think they are looking at buying one when the money is fully available. Personally the way things are sounding now kind of gets on my nerves . Everything sounds too straight and has no dynamic ,dramatic ,theatrical presentation to it . It would be nice if one of these stores would have a sales rep who could come back to the church and have a few hour seminar demoing the Genos but I don't know if stores do that.
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And update on using a Genos in Church . The board of Deacons have made a decision and their decision to use the Genos in church has been rejected. Only one Deacon was in favor of the Genos. I requested to receive a copy sent to me in the mail why they rejected it .
I will post the final results of their decision when I receive it .I am curious to know why they rejected the Genos. As to my understanding if a live drummer or any other Musician would join the church they would except that. As of now they only have 2 musicians and 2 singers. The Genos would have provided so much more. Very Very Frustrating. It may leave me with no Choice but to resign from the Church and go else where.
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Well Greg, you had that $600 donation, a further small donation from yourself and you could have just bought the DGX and had no opposition! If it had the positive effect you think maybe the Genos could have been a next step.
But as I said before, you are kidding yourself if you think the difference between a DGX sound and a Genos was important. In a blind test I am certain you couldn’t tell which was which with a real player.
In fact for a Church I would choose the DGX every time, full piano keyboard, great sound and most of the additional deep features in the Genos would be not used in a Church for live play. And of course way cheaper. If I was your church musician I would take the DGX every time as my preferred choice, because I would never need or want all the deep features of the Genos, and I could use full piano keyboard. I suspect you have never heard a new DGX played well, but I can tell you it blew me away. I have 2 CVPs and I thought the DGX was well in their league.
Maybe you should reconsider your approach.
Mike
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Mike I will not know the real reason why they rejected till I receiver a letter. I am not certain if it was just because of the cost of it. About you mentioning playing on a full size keyboard here is a demo of a guy pre recording his praise and worship composition on the Genos then going back and using his full size keyboard to play along with the Genos. Breath taken and very powerful technic.
Demo ------> https://youtu.be/9wIJ-ZpiC5A
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Greg
Many church musicians will be classically trained on piano, like me, and will value the better feel, full size keyboard way over the many deep features they will find on Genos, but seldom use. And feel more comfortable with it.
With all due respect, I mentioned before that I think you got yourself caught up in the mystique and aura of the Genos. While I think it is a great keyboard, and a great sound, they all sound great nowadays. I could buy 10 different decent arranger type keyboards, and the difference in sound quality between them will be minimal compared to the difference in the quality of the person playing them.
The approach that pro musicians take to their instrument is not the same as the amateur enthusiast who wants and can afford the latest and greatest, and often has more fun playing with the buttons and fancy features than just playing.
The church board may not agree with you that the music is the basis of their falling congregation - and they may be right. But for something that would essentially cost them nothing, they would have had nothing to lose with the DGX.
BTW - re the video you posted, before I changed to the CVP, that was exactly the way I had my arranger, electric piano set up. And, I played exactly this way, driving everything from the full keyboard, never using the arranger keys. But of course the CVP is much neater way of achieving the same end . As is the DGX.
Mike
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Mike you have some good points but having said that I will post their thoughts on the Genos once I get a letter from them. It may or may not be the price that they are concerned with will have to wait and see what their final thoughts were I am curious. I went on You tube and listened to the keyboard you mentioned. I think the Genos has more realism to it. The bending of notes with the Joy Stick and the large window display . The sliders to bring instruments in and out on the fly. You call all the buttons on the Genos fancy but they are there for a reason. I agree if the keyboard player is not skilled enough the Genos would not be worth investing in, but he is skilled , but if we left out the cost and those 2 keyboards were in front of you which one would you take if it was given to you ? Here is last Sundays service which I did not attend because I was not in the mood to attend after the disappointment with their Decision. You can get an idea of the music directors playing skills on the piano and keyboard. Music is at the Beginning of the Video and then if you wind forward to the end of the service you can hear him playing again. No questions the Genos would put new life into their Music Ministry but they don't see it like I do, Very Frustrating. I feel like they insulted my intelligence. I don't know if I will ever go back there.
Last Sunday --> https://www.youtube.com/live/Z9oyvByWDnY?feature=share
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I think it might also be perception, not just price. The Genos appears like a fancy computer with sound, and that may not sit well.
You seem very enthused by the Genos 'sound' but having heard both first hand I would just describe both as very impressive, with the Genos having a very slight edge, not one miles better than the other.
On your other question, being well informed about both the keyboards and the use in a church, I would probably choose the DGX, especially for the purpose you intend, - not having to be portable, not for fancy recording of EDM or other genres. I just would not need or want a Genos, and the keyboard would feel awful to me.
But suppose I was playing piano or organ in the church, with no background in playing arrangers, and you came to me cold with a Genos, I would probably chase you. A pro player, and you want me to mess with something that seems more about operating than playing. You might persuade me to try a DGX though, because it looks and plays like a piano. Thats the truth.
BTW, I never bend notes with the joystick. When I do pitch bend, I use the foot pedal. And honestly, bending notes is more of a gimmick than a necessity to a church player.
Mike
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Hi --
I watched the video of April 16rd's service via Greg's link (Tri-County Bible Church, Pennsylvania):
https://www.youtube.com/live/Z9oyvByWDnY
70 people in attendance and 11 people on-line.
There is an acoustic piano in the choir area to the left of the altar and several instruments in the music ministry area to the right of the altar. There is a Korg (!) keyboard in the music ministry area -- couldn't tell what model. So, there is at least some experience with a digital keyboard instrument. The first hymns were accompanied by the Korg and a guitar.
I guess two questions for Greg is "Who does the church want to bring back to the fold? Who do they want to attract?" The congregation skews older. (Not meant as an offense, because I play for a skewed congregation myself.) If the goal is to bring in more youth, than there are other considerations like repertoire. Our church has a separate youth-targeted service even though our own group tries to go upbeat and somewhat contemporary.
I get the need for rhythm even though I have my own love-hate relationship with drums and drummers in church music. :-) I also understand how the music director might prefer to play with a live drummer... Recruiting? Compensation?
Well, there's some observations and thoughts -- none technological. :-)
It was hard to recover from the pandemic especially with volunteer musicians. It's taken more than a year.
All the best -- pj
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PJD that's just it they are not trying to bring anything back to the church it's me that was trying to point out to them that we need music that is going to appeal to the younger generation to draw them in. As the older people die off there will be no one to replace them. I recommended the Genos or even one of the arrangers would do a lot better then what I hear now giving it a more dramatic presentation but the director insist he wants live people to participate but what he is not getting is how long is he willing to wait for these people to come. I was giving them a quick fix to this problem but they don't see anything as a problem and are happy the way it is going. The other problem there is the Pastor is pushing 90 and has bad knees , He is going blind in the one eye and can not read at the moment. I suggested to one of the deacons that he needs to step down. As of now a younger man has taken over in the church with a pastoral degree and have more energy. I decided to continue going there since he stepped in . He is excellent ! i Just got to look past the music . I wish the pastor who is 90 good health but I hope he decides to let the younger guy take over the pastoring. Again I don't say this out of respect for older people but in order to attract the younger generation they do need a younger lively speaker. I look at things from the long haul but they look at things from the here and now.
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Hi Greg --
So much depends upon the pastor. Can't say that enough. :)
Targeted youth ministry seems to work best. It's unfortunate that years and ill-health take away so much energy -- don't I know it! :D
I'm glad to hear that another minister is helping out.
All the best -- pj
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Hi Greg (and others who have posted in this thread).
I am an active volunteer hymn/gospel singer and keyboard musician. I have an active YouTube site with some 2,500 subscribers who mostly like my renditions of traditional hymns and southern/country gospel, spanning about the past 9 years. The site has around 250 songs that I've created, first on a PSR-S910 and more recently with a Genos. The quality of the "keyboard operator" varies (hopefully improves over time), but the quality of the SOUND is hard to differentiate between the two keyboards.
I began keyboard lessons in 1952 and read/play by-note-or-by-ear, but I would be VERY nervous about playing a Genos or any other arranger/workstation as the accompaniment for services such as T-C Bible Church. Basic reason(s) follow:
1. It takes a substantial amount of TIME to find/match STYLES for keyboards to accompany traditional hymns, southern/country gospel, or contemporary "P&W". But a skilled PIANO player can slide between any of the genres without the risk of not matching the tempo or appropriate instrument combination.
2. If you take almost any modern hymnal or praise & worship playlist, there will be MANY hymns/songs for which there is NO appropriate style. And picking a style that can make a religious song sound SECULAR will produce unmerciful "grief" from pastors, deacons and knowledgeable congregants.
3. Arranger/workstation advocates might suggest that where satisfactory styles don't exist, a solution can come from "rolling your own"....but avoid being enticed by that idea. It is a LOT harder than it looks especially when the music doesn't invariably have a well known recording to mimic. And even if there is a reliable, well-known recording to mimic, one must be VERY SKILLED using a wide array of instruments. I personally know the piano and trumpet but know NOTHING of drums, electric guitars and Classical orchestral instruments. Now if we could just get Bill Gaither and Daywind Studios to create arranger/workstation STYLES that mimic their recordings, then the contemporary P&W artists/studios might follow and we wouldn't have this dilemma with regard to arranger/workstations in small churches. Without appropriate styles, arranger/workstations are little more than somewhat expensive digital pianos. And also the Genos is "OK" as a piano, as a piano player, I much prefer ANY decent acoustic piano, and especially my Baldwin SF-10! And really good "stage" pianos (Yamaha, etc) can be found for equal or less $$$ than the Genos.
On the positive side, I would be delighted and honored to share my collected insights/ideas/styles/registrations on hymns and gospel music. When I have offered here in the past, there hasn't been much interest. I have been retired for nearly 20 years, and usually spend a part of every day "doing something related to Christian music", in between assignments from my spouse of 50+ years.
My profile has my email if you wish to collaborate privately.
Dave
San Antonio, TX
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Hi Greg (and others who have posted in this thread).
Now if we could just get Bill Gaither and Daywind Studios to create arranger/workstation STYLES that mimic their recordings, then the contemporary P&W artists/studios might follow and we wouldn't have this dilemma with regard to arranger/workstations in small churches. Without appropriate styles, arranger/workstations are little more than somewhat expensive digital pianos. And also the Genos is "OK" as a piano, as a piano player, I much prefer ANY decent acoustic piano, and especially my Baldwin SF-10! And really good "stage" pianos (Yamaha, etc) can be found for equal or less $$$ than the Genos.
Dave
San Antonio, TX
Hi Dave. Or better yet, Yamaha has a significant footprint in the Christian/Gospel segment, so it would be a shoo-in for Yammie to produce quality styles for that genre of music which in my opinion would also boost sales of their higher-end arranger keyboards. Because as we know a vast number of Christians are also musicians and keyboardists and many of them of course buy Yamaha arranger keyboards. Many smaller churches don't have the resources for a live worship band which would include a lot of music gear, but since an arranger is in effect a one-man-band (OMB) it could solve many churches desire for a live band service via an arranger keyboard player with a Genos, etc., if they had access to high quality styles directly suited for both CCM & Hymnal songs. I think Yamaha would sell a boat load of those type of styles which would be another revenue booster for Yammie and a great benefit for churches and Yamaha arranger keyboardists who would like to fill that void.
All the best, Mike
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Hi Dave. Or better yet, Yamaha has a significant footprint in the Christian/Gospel segment, so it would be a shoo-in for Yammie to produce quality styles for that genre of music which in my opinion would also boost sales of their higher-end arranger keyboards. Because as we know a vast number of Christians are also musicians and keyboardists and many of them of course buy Yamaha arranger keyboards. Many smaller churches don't have the resources for a live worship band which would include a lot of music gear, but since an arranger is in effect a one-man-band (OMB) it could solve many churches desire for a live band service via an arranger keyboard player with a Genos, etc., if they had access to high quality styles directly suited for both CCM & Hymnal songs. I think Yamaha would sell a boat load of those type of styles which would be another revenue booster for Yammie and a great benefit for churches and Yamaha arranger keyboardists who would like to fill that void.
All the best, Mike
Yamaha does seem to have a reasonable share of the church market but I suspect from Yamaha's perch it is far from enticing compared to secular markets. It is sad and unfortunate but reality. I'm guessing that IF styles were going to appear, they would first and foremost emulate the contemporary Christian music (CCM) genre which is closer to secular genres/styles compared with what is likely the preferred sound at the T-C Bible Church (well blended voices/instruments and diminished drums/guitars). It can be done on many hymns/songs but not without limits/shortfalls/disappointments.
Since the church rejected the idea, it's kinda moot with regard to Greg's initiative.
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There is also a very practical reason to avoid auto accompaniment type instruments for church music.
It is true that some very contemporary churches present the music like a well rehearsed, performed concert. But most more traditional churches still present the music as a way to lead the full congregation in participation. Instruments with fixed electronic tempo might be a liability in those situations.
I know that when I played in church, even with a choir leading, I was constantly aware of ‘congregation lag” and making subtle timing adjustments.
In fact the arranger is generally not an instrument I would select for any kind of community singing situation.
Mike
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I know that when I played in church, even with a choir leading, I was constantly aware of ‘congregation lag” and making subtle timing adjustments.
Had to chuckle. I loved the scene in "Amadeus" when Mozart rehearses the singers -- and makes wisecracks like "Late!"
Every Sunday, I fight the urge to bark out "Late!" to the congregation. :)
Amen, Mike, amen -- pj