PSR Tutorial Forum
Genos (12 Boards) => Genos - General => Topic started by: PetrVirag on October 07, 2022, 09:05:31 PM
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Hello Everyone, I'm hoping to get some guidance on my next purchase. I've recently sold my Korg Pa4x after owning the keyboard since it came out, I've always been a fan of Korg but I'm more leaning towards on switching to the flagship Yamaha Genos. As most of you know, the Genos is still one of the most expensive keyboards out there and I just don't know if its worth for me to sped $7,500.00 with taxes (in Canada Toronto) when I hear rumor's that the Genos 2 is coming soon. Is the Genos worth it? or maybe the baby brother the SX900 will suffice?? Coming from a 61 key bed on the Korg PA4x, I do feel that 76 keys is the way to go for me.
let me know your thoughts
Best Regards,
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It is absolutely worth it, and you will appreciate the extra keys! There is a reason for its high price, the Genos is superb. Regards from a Genos owner who is very happy with it!
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It is absolutely worth it, and you will appreciate the extra keys! There is a reason for its high price, the Genos is superb. Regards from a Genos owner who is very happy with it!
Exactly my thoughts!
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As a matter of interest why are you considering the Genos, and not the new PAX5? Have you been turned off Korg in some way?
Mike
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As a matter of interest why are you considering the Genos, and not the new PAX5? Have you been turned off Korg in some way?
Mike
Yes. For the main reason that KORG does not have a decent forum to even discuss their newest entry of keyboard.
As we can see here at the YAMAHA forum the support just is not there for the PAX5 keyboard at their site where ever it is .. if there is one at all. ;)
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Petr,
If you are spending all that money for a new Genos, a five-year-old model, I would wait for the new Genos 2, although no one knows when it will be released, rumored to be released within a year.
That way, you will get the best of all features as Yamaha, by then, would have taken all that they gleaned from the Pa5X and the Ketron event and present us with a winner!
Just my 2 cents,
:)
Uday
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Drake - I really think it’s interesting for us to know from the poster what is driving a former Korg player in the direction of Yamaha when there is a new product from Korg. But I’m pretty sure it has nothing to do with presence of absence of keyboard forums. I think this forum is popular largely because Yamaha arrangers are popular. Not the other way round.
Besides which there are many of these forums worldwide, covering several brands, and many of them not English language so most of us don’t see them.
Mike
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Hello Everyone, I'm hoping to get some guidance on my next purchase. I've recently sold my Korg Pa4x after owning the keyboard since it came out, I've always been a fan of Korg but I'm more leaning towards on switching to the flagship Yamaha Genos. As most of you know, the Genos is still one of the most expensive keyboards out there and I just don't know if its worth for me to sped $7,500.00 with taxes (in Canada Toronto) when I hear rumor's that the Genos 2 is coming soon. Is the Genos worth it? or maybe the baby brother the SX900 will suffice?? Coming from a 61 key bed on the Korg PA4x, I do feel that 76 keys is the way to go for me.
let me know your thoughts
Best Regards,
Fellow Canadian here. If memory serves, each time I bought an upgraded keyboard, the suggested price was similar to that of its predecessor when it was new - and if was more, it wasn't by a staggering amount. In other words, the Genos 2 may not be that much more than a Genos and its crazy price increases over the past few years. On the other hand, times are totally different than any other since 1945. The world economy has been disrupted by Covid and now a totally idiotic lunatic who has no idea why he wants to take over the country next door. But I digress.
All things considered, I'd wait for Genos 2. It will cost more but probably not that much.
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Why should someone - being so very familiar with Korg for many years - buy an expensive brand new 5 year old Yamaha arranger whilst a complete new Yamaha successor is in the air and ... a new Korg PA5X just arrived ?
Just my 2 cents,
;)
JH
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GENOS
It's a spaceship with an alien sound! I use Genos and I am very satisfied!
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@ DrakeM, please pay attention to what you write!!
There is indeed a Korg PA5x Forum that is at least as good as this forum!
Link: http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=90 (http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=90)
@ PetrVirag, If a new GN2 comes out it will be the end of 2023 at the earliest.
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In the UK, the GENOS is discounted by £1627.
Bill
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Thanks Bill, very interesting information. :)
What is the present UK consumer price ?
JH
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Thanks Bill, very interesting information. :)
What is the present UK consumer price ?
JH
£3899
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That’s going to go up soon because pound is so weak. The current stock was probably imported before the pound fell sharply.
Mike
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Thanks, Bill.
FYI Here in The Netherlands the today's new Genos ' price = EURO 4.295,-- GBP = 3.771.98
1 EURO = 0.878225 GBP.
No stand, no speaker set included.
Best regards, JH
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Genos in US is still $6000 USD...
:(
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Genos in US is still $6000 USD...
I paid $4500 for my Genos last year. I doubt prices have changed that much since then.
Back to the original topic, the real question is can you do without a keyboard for a year or so? If you can, wait until a new Genos comes out. If not, buy one now.
Cheers,
Fred
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Back to the original topic, the real question is can you do without a keyboard for a year or so? If you can, wait until a new Genos comes out. If not, buy one now.
Cheers,
Fred
Not sure about anyone else but at my age I would not wait a year, time is precious. I knew a member here who waited and waited to buy a new arranger he did purchase an SX900 6 months later he passed away.
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Genos in US is still $6000 USD...
:(
I don't mean to cast shade on anyone. However, lots of folks here and forums elsewhere cite either the Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) or the Minimum Advertised Price (MAP). [I'm speaking specifically about the USA region and pricing.]
Genos MSRP is $6,799 and the MAP is $6,000. All Yamaha dealers must advertise at or above MAP. That's why every on-line dealer displays the same price: $6,000.
USA dealers are not restricted from quoting a lower price to a buyer. If Yamaha made this restriction, they would run afoul of anti-competition laws, etc.
Sure, you can click the buy button and pay MAP. Like Fred, I bought from a dealer who quoted a lower price by phone. We are always willing to recommend dealers which offer better out-the-door pricing.
Hopefully, this will save one of our forum members some hard earned cash. :D
All the best -- pj
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I started off with a smaller psr 970 keyboard with 61 keys which had a fairly decent spec and sound, but then when I upgraded to the Genos I realised what I was missing. If you are going to go Yamaha (and I have never regretted it) go for the Genos if you can afford it. I found that the extra keys made it much more flexible for chord shapes and therefore improved playability and the sound and styles available are superb. You could wait forever for Genos 2 and to be perfectly honest I cannot see how any more bells and whistles would make it any better for the average player. Go for it and enjoy!
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I just bought a used Genos from a large uk retailer with 2 year warranty . £2900 including speakers . Looks like new -very happy. I don`t think i will buy new again.
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You are in for some real fun and enjoyment.
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I don't mean to cast shade on anyone. However, lots of folks here and forums elsewhere cite either the Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) or the Minimum Advertised Price (MAP). [I'm speaking specifically about the USA region and pricing.]
Genos MSRP is $6,799 and the MAP is $6,000. All Yamaha dealers must advertise at or above MAP. That's why every on-line dealer displays the same price: $6,000.
USA dealers are not restricted from quoting a lower price to a buyer. If Yamaha made this restriction, they would run afoul of anti-competition laws, etc.
Sure, you can click the buy button and pay MAP. Like Fred, I bought from a dealer who quoted a lower price by phone. We are always willing to recommend dealers which offer better out-the-door pricing.
Hopefully, this will save one of our forum members some hard earned cash. :D
All the best -- pj
And to expand on Paul's comment if I may, please remember that in the US at least, the markup on expensive musical gear is often close to 100% so there's room for negotiation. How do I know that? I once had an in-law who was a Yamaha music regional sales manager and through him I was able to purchase one particularly expensive keyboard for exactly 1/2 of the retail price. Recently I was able to purchase another brand of keyboard from a large volume dealer in the UK and even after global shipping and import duty saved about $600 over the best price I could get here in the US.
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its not what you know
its WHO you know
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Thanks everyone for all of the comments so Ill try to address some of my own. After owning Korg products for a very long time and Im mean I had the Karma, Triton Extreme, M50, M3, Pa1Xpro, Pa4x it felt that it was time that I try something new. Most of my community musicians have Yamaha and seemed to be very easy to share files styles and sounds amongst each other.
Korg Pa4x was an excellent keyboard and I even got the little PAAS speaker which sounds amazing but like I said I just wanted something different. I did end up buying a Brand new Genos with the Yamaha stand and Speaker system and both the speaker and keyboards sounds very good and Im very happy with it.
I know the Genos 2 is probably around the corner but it will be hard to convince to trade for the Genos 2 but who knows right.
The down side with the Korg is that I was missing out on some of the sounds that the Yamaha community had, such as the Rhodes Affair piano and other old school pianos that fall right in my category of music.
I used to be in a band where I would play gigs on weekly basis (weddings, private parties etc..) and would make good money but now Im just a home in the studio making my own music and the Genos is right for the application and again it falls right in the community aspect as Im able to share my music with yamaha community member from my county.
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And to expand on Paul's comment if I may, please remember that in the US at least, the markup on expensive musical gear is often close to 100% so there's room for negotiation. How do I know that? I once had an in-law who was a Yamaha music regional sales manager and through him I was able to purchase one particularly expensive keyboard for exactly 1/2 of the retail price. Recently I was able to purchase another brand of keyboard from a large volume dealer in the UK and even after global shipping and import duty saved about $600 over the best price I could get here in the US.
100% markup at retail (50% of the resulting retail price) is not unusual, not just with musical equipment. I'm under the impression that the markup is a fair bit greater than 100% on the higher end Yamaha arrangers and CVPs, at least for bigger dealers. Thus the need for the minimum advertised price policy.
- Greg
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Hi Petr,
If you are determined to switch to Yamaha, I advise you to buy the Genos, the SX900 is not for the Genos what the PA1000 is for the PA4x. Many things are missing, from sound editing to the lack of Sart.2 and the 24-bit construction.
If you just sing, Genos will give you a lot of satisfaction, extraordinary sound, if you want to do other things, especially editing (sound style song), Yamaha, in general, will give you some frustrations by sending you to the computer every time. Similarly, if you are a follower of the 6 CVs for each style: M, m, 7, dim.... think twice, it will no longer be possible.
Unfortunately now the PA5x, except maybe the sound, does not rise to the possibilities of the PA4x whose SH price here is about 1000 Euros higher than a new one before the PA5x.
Good luck!
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Hello Everyone, I'm hoping to get some guidance on my next purchase. I've recently sold my Korg Pa4x after owning the keyboard since it came out, I've always been a fan of Korg but I'm more leaning towards on switching to the flagship Yamaha Genos. As most of you know, the Genos is still one of the most expensive keyboards out there and I just don't know if its worth for me to sped $7,500.00 with taxes (in Canada Toronto) when I hear rumor's that the Genos 2 is coming soon. Is the Genos worth it? or maybe the baby brother the SX900 will suffice?? Coming from a 61 key bed on the Korg PA4x, I do feel that 76 keys is the way to go for me.
let me know your thoughts
Best Regards,
Just pre-ordered the korg-88-key arranger , delivery date 10 days before Christmass.
It plays as expected, however for more advanced Editing it will need the
completion of the current O.S.
when questioned , the date of the o.s release, was told 10 days time,
which i Do Not believe for one second,
however looking at the past history of their updates, it will be available sooner or later.
So christmass day is gonna be great for me and my genos
who will have a new friend to Link up to.
This thing is HUGE, and i do mean Gigantic.
i could never go from a 76 key, back down to a 66 key , no way.
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I look forward to your thoughts on the PA5X, Genosmusic. I'll wait for Yamaha's response but I'm curious about the PA5X from an actual user perspective and not some cheesy teaser videos put out by rank amateurs 🤣.
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I look forward to your thoughts on the PA5X, Genosmusic. I'll wait for Yamaha's response but I'm curious about the PA5X from an actual user perspective and not some cheesy teaser videos put out by rank amateurs 🤣.
I personally would say that the
PA5X is for the younger generation,
you wont find oldies/styles, or easy-listening stuff, from years gone by.
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I personally would say that the
PA5X is for the younger generation,
you wont find oldies/styles, or easy-listening stuff, from years gone by.
Good to know. Most of my playing activity involves the older stuff from the 50s to 70s. Thanks.
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I personally would say that the
PA5X is for the younger generation,
you wont find oldies/styles, or easy-listening stuff, from years gone by.
Thank you so much for this interesting information, Genosmusic.
It confirms the PA5X is not made for our generation. ;)
And ... it might be too expensive for many younger people. ;D
Best regards, JH
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Thank you so much for this interesting information, Genosmusic.
It confirms the PA5X is not made for our generation. ;)
And ... it might be too expensive for many younger people. ;D
Best regards, JH
If your comfortable on your roundabout of life,then stay where you are,
However i could not live like that, im 19
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I personally would say that the
PA5X is for the younger generation,
you wont find oldies/styles, or easy-listening stuff, from years gone by.
I don't mean to be argumentative, but after reading the list of Pa5x styles in the user guide, the styles on offer are not much different than Genos. A player will still find foxtrot, charleston, etc. :)
I always feel "to each their own" as far as musical genres are concerned. [I might be 70, but I like and listened to a lot of contemporary downtempo and lo-fi as well as funk, etc.]
That said, possibly the Pa5x is a better vehicle for producing contemporary music, e.g., beats and so forth? That's a workflow/process thing, not so much the built-in style content. Still, there are much cheaper ways to produce beats than a Pa5x -- Akai MPC Beats and a cheapo MPK Mini can get the job done. ;D
BTW, I don't have any strong feelings about this vs. that having too many tools and too little talent already. ;)
All the best -- pj
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If your comfortable on your roundabout of life,then stay where you are,
However i could not live like that, im 19
In all honestly I find that a pretty smart assed remark for a 19 year old. Maybe if you are very lucky in life you will get to experience a small fraction of what I have experienced in my 77 years.
Mike
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In all honestly I find that a pretty smart assed remark for a 19 year old. Maybe if you are very lucky in life you will get to experience a small fraction of what I have experienced in my 77 years.
Mike
Nice comeback Mike.......I'm a couple years younger than you but I too hope he is as lucky in life as I have been and to experience a bit of what we both have.
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In all honestly I find that a pretty smart assed remark for a 19 year old. Maybe if you are very lucky in life you will get to experience a small fraction of what I have experienced in my 77 years.
Mike
Perhaps your mistaken in your interpretation of my comment ?
My father is ex military, and he is Comfortable with his life,
however i am not, because i havent achieved what he has.
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And therein lies the disadvantages of communicating through forums and emails. Sometimes it's very difficult to project and perceive the "tone" of a message. I'm sure Genosmusic didn't mean any disrespect. He's merely saying how much he admires the older generation, especially his dad, and that he hopes to achieve several personal victories by the time he reaches our age. The Genos is a great place to start 😉! I think its amazing that a 19 year old owns a Genos.
Genosmusic - our ages (around 70) will get here faster than you think! Thanks to your dad for his service. All my male ancestors fought in conflicts from the Fenian Raids, WWI, WWII, and the 1960s Middle East crisis. They included service in the Canadian Army, Air Force (RCAF), and Navy (RCN).
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And therein lies the disadvantages of communicating through forums and emails. Sometimes it's very difficult to project and perceive the "tone" of a message. I'm sure Genosmusic didn't mean any disrespect. He's merely saying how much he admires the older generation, especially his dad, and that he hopes to achieve several personal victories by the time he reaches our age. The Genos is a great place to start 😉! I think its amazing that a 19 year old owns a Genos.
Genosmusic - our ages (around 70) will get here faster than you think! Thanks to your dad for his service. All my male ancestors fought in conflicts from the Fenian Raids, WWI, WWII, and the 1960s Middle East crisis. They included service in the Canadian Army, Air Force (RCAF), and Navy (RCN).
Oh My God, thankyou so much.
My Dad is x Royal Marine, with some Horrific Life Experiences,
he loves music too, and often accompanies me to the keyboard shop
when in the keyboard shop i requested to demo the 5x,
the shop assistant, said yeah go ahead,its all rigged up to the p.a.system,
but my Dad said ,ask for headphones,
because the p.a system ,with the shop rooms acoustics,and the people talking,
will only contaminate the original sound
so i did what he said and heard the 5x over headphones
but Dad said, wait for the upgrade o.s.
but luckily i talked him out of it .
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Hey Genosmusic :
When I was 19 years old I was dreaming to get my first Fender Stratocaster.
I had to wait more than 20 years before I could afford one. :o
Best wishes, JH
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You're very welcome, genosmusic. Your dad sure belonged to an elite force. Good for him. He was also wise in telling you to use headphones for trying out the 5X.
I have a special relationship with my music store. Whenever I demo a new product, I buy it and take it home on a 30 day, money back approval. I'm allowed to gig with it as well but I've never done that because I think it's unfair to the store and Yamaha. What if it got damaged? I try it out in my studio though, perhaps in a practice situation. That way, it's really identical to an in-store demo. In such a relaxed and known atmosphere, I can tell whether or not it's the keyboard I want. I only keep it a day or two because without the external distractions of people talking or some budding young guitarist playing Smoke On The Water over a Marshall stack turned up to 11, I can get a pretty quick assessment of whether or not I want the keyboard.
I was in one music store years ago that actually played the local radio station over its ceiling speakers. One such speaker was located right over one of their most expensive synths!! What the heck were they thinking 🙄? Add to the fact, the tuner was stuck between two radio stations. Instead of "signal to noise" ratio, it had "noise to signal ratio" 🤣. Duh...!!!
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I personally would say that the
PA5X is for the younger generation,
you won't find oldies/styles, or easy-listening stuff, from years gone by.
I disagree with that statement. I've been listening in depth to more demos of the Pa5X to get a better understanding of the sound quality and of the various features/functions and without a doubt, I've concluded the Pa5X surpasses the Genos in more ways than one. Since Yamaha is an expert and master at determining what authentic musical instruments should sound like I can guarantee you Yamaha sound engineers are undoubtedly awed and inspired by just how good the Pa5X sounds. The Strings are amazing. The Pianos on the Pa5X are more realistic and truly outstanding. The Drum Kits give the Revo Drums a run for their money and exceed my expectations. The electric guitars sound better in most cases as do the Organs, including B3's - BIG TIME, I might add, and so too the Electric Pianos. The Pa5X has a richer, LIVE BAND sound that professional keyboardists desire and yes even demand in many cases. Korg can't keep pace with demand and as a result, you won't find ANY Pa5X anywhere in the USA or most other countries either for that matter. It's either Sold Out or you need to Pre-Order. FWIW, the Genos is still a fantastic arranger keyboard but Yamaha has some catching up to do if they want to retain its king-of-the-hill status in my opinion. I would like to stay with Yammie because they have a HUGE advantage regarding Styles and Voice Expansions as well as a vast array and intricate network of 3rd Party companies that cater to Yamaha keyboard products. Plus, I've heard the Korg PA series have a steep learning curve whereas I'm really familiar with Yamaha arrangers. Hopefully, we'll see the Genos successor sooner rather than later but of course, Yamaha has its own schedule and timeline. So as they say, patience is a virtue so stay tuned. To demonstrate that the Pa5X does indeed cater to the older generation here is a short Big Band tune played live on the Pa5X. Have a listen and see what you think. PS: I really like my Genos but as you can see I'm not beholden to any particular manufacturer or company. But I will likely wait and see what Yamaha has to offer before deciding one way or the other.
Big Band Pa5X (https://www.dropbox.com/s/lrwgkktcta189uh/Big%20Band%20Pa5X.wav?dl=0)
All the best,
Mike
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Pretty impressive demo of big band.
Mike
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Dear keynote,
I do not fully agree with your statement.
I played on the Korg PA5, the things I liked were the pianos and the organs.
For the rest a perfect finish on the outside. To say that Genos has been surpassed is an exaggeration.
The demo (big band) you have attached is definitely no better than Genos, recorded with a lot of effects, I can get a much better and realistic big band out of the Genos!!
Guitars can certainly be matched and even surpassed!!
As for the drums, the Pa5x and Genos are similar.
For the organs and pianos I have integrated a much better solution, B3-X (IK-multimedia) and Pianoteq 6.7 (Modartt) into Gig-performer.
As I have said several times, many do not know what is still possible with the Genos!
When something new comes out, people are always open-mouthed looking at demos and at the same time with the money bracket open.
Don't forget, it's the person behind the keys who has to do it!!!
Yesterday I saw a sax demo with the Ketron Event, with the keyboardist playing the accompaniment and the sax was just an audio track.
People start to wonder, are we playing keyboards or CDs???
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Thanks for your input Musicman01. The opinion(s) I express are also backed up by music professional experts in their field. The 'out of the box' sounds on the Pa5X are superior in many cases to the sounds of any other arranger on the market currently. I say many cases, but not all. For instance, the Sax sounds on the Genos sound better than the ones I've heard so far on the Pa5X. Although the sound editing capabilities on the Pa5X are more extensive than the Genos so it's easier to get the sound you prefer. So sound shaping on the Pa5X can be more rewarding since the tools available to edit the sounds are more intricate and comprehensive.
Here's another Big Band demo played live on the Pa5X. The 'older generation' take note. 8) More Big Band Pa5X (https://www.dropbox.com/s/tt3s11g1fqty6fh/More%20Big%20Band%20Pa5X.wav?dl=0)
Update: Here's some Pa5X Acoustic Guitar(s) with a Tenor Sax in the mix. The guitars are excellent and the Sax is pretty good. Just comparing vs. the Genos. I'm not trying to upset anyone on our YAMAHA FORUM. Keep an open mind, folks. Feedback is appreciated. I still cherish my Genos FYI. Think of it as simply exploring what the competition has to offer. Including products from Yamaha. Pa5X Acoustic Guitars with a Sax thrown in for good measure (https://www.dropbox.com/s/p40awt7cfviyr91/Acoustic%20Guitars%20with%20Tenor%20Sax.wav?dl=0)
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Dear keynote,
I played on the Korg PA5, the things I liked were the pianos and the organs.
People start to wonder, are we playing keyboards or CDs???
My 2 cents worth I have a Pa4x and to my ears the big band demo styles remind me of the Pa4x. This is not to say that the Pa5x voices haven't improved. I've never played one only listened to the demos. I have always preferred the pianos and organs on the Pa4x.
My preferred board is the Genos.
On the subject are we playing keyboards or playing CDs. I do all shows for senior citizens usually after the first tune I tell the audience this is a state of the art computer assisted keyboard. I then play a piano solo that shows it's all me playing to prove to the audience it's just not a machine that plays music for me. Then thru registrations I add and instrument one by one. I tell the audience OK here's my drummer then add in drums, then I say we need a bass player and I add the bass via a registrations. I keep building on that until I have a full band backing with me. At this point the audience gets the idea it's me playing but I have help similar to having other musicians play along with me. By the way this is not my idea as I recall Gary Diamond is the guy who told me about it.
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YAMAHA FORUM. Keep an open mind, folks. Feedback is appreciated. I still cherish my Genos FYI.
Think of it as simply exploring what the competition has to offer. Including products from Yamaha.
Surely that is what life is all about. — getting the most bang for your money.
Bill
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Please define 'the most bang ..'? ;)
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Thanks for the demos, Keynote. I'd be more impressed with those demos if the performer used about 90% less reverb. The playing style of the sax and trumpet parts uses a lot of accidentals. It makes it sound like horns obviously played by a piano player - big mistake. As a former trumpet player, I always thought accidentals should be used very sparingly - not in every other bar.
As for the PA5X, it has its strengths but I don't hear anything that jumps out over the Genos. The default drum and bass mixes in the PA5X are FAR superior. The pianos and B3s are better as well, but there's nothing there that makes me want to stand in line for the PA5X. I, like everyone else here, are waiting for Yamaha's reply.
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Please define 'the most bang ..'? ;)
Hi Ton
What I mean is getting what we Perceive as the best value for our money. Yamaha does not pay us to be loyal, they do not even bother with new styles etc on Musicsoft any more. I'm not sure what is going on with the additional packs, styles since they decided to give away the old stuff.
Regards
Bill
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You can get some great Big Band sounds from the Ensemble feature on Genos. I wonder how many people use it.
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You can get some great Big Band sounds from the Ensemble feature on Genos. I wonder how many people use it.
Thanks for the reminder I often forget we have those Ensemble sounds.
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The fact is that all of these TOTL keyboards now have excellent sounds, and differences are marginal rather than material difference to an average listener, or even the player.
Many other things enter into the decision on whether to buy and which to buy - price, availability, ease of operation, individual features and their relative importance to you, learning curve on new system, availability of ‘extras’ like style libraries, voice libraries. We all weigh these up and decide for ourselves. If you prefer the sax on one but the piano on another, the decision gets harder, and you balance all the other issues, and decide.
The good thing for us consumers is that the choice is great.
BTW - life is not all about best bang for your buck, it’s about using your money to best suit you. And brand loyalty is an irrelevance to most of us, we buy what we think is best for us at the moment of purchase. If you have good experience with a particular brand, you just weigh that in along with everything else.
Mike
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You pay your money and take your choice. Dos it really matter if key board A plays a bagpipe or a jaws harp better than keyboard B. It’s the player not the keyboard that makes the difference. Demos are setup to get the best sounds that can be obtained with a certain setup, but the chances are you will never get the same. Just be happy with what you have. I love my Genos and see no reason to change. And by the way I would never have got rid of my Hammond except for the space it took up, happy days.
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You pay your money and take your choice. Dos it really matter if key board A plays a bagpipe or a jaws harp better than keyboard B. It’s the player not the keyboard that makes the difference. Demos are setup to get the best sounds that can be obtained with a certain setup, but the chances are you will never get the same. Just be happy with what you have. I love my Genos and see no reason to change. And by the way I would never have got rid of my Hammond except for the space it took up, happy days.
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You pay your money and take your choice. Does it really matter if key board A plays a bagpipe or a jaws harp better than keyboard B. It’s the player not the keyboard that makes the difference.
I would say to an extent the player makes a big difference. Having said that the sounds on the keyboard itself also make a big difference. If I'm an accomplished musician/keyboardist, would I rather have good sounds in my keyboard or superb sounds? The answer for the serious musician is they want the best sounds possible I would think. I want a Bagpipe that sounds like real Bagpipe(s). I want a Jaws Harp that sounds as close as possible to the real thing. The player is vitally important, but the "sounds" are the more important aspect for the musician/keyboardist especially big-name artists that do world tours. You don't want to go out on stage and have your audience start throwing tomatoes at you because your keyboard can't cut the mustard even though you're playing skills are top notch. Just saying. Enjoy what you play for sure.
All the best,
Mike
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...I want a Bagpipe that sounds like real Bagpipe(s). I want a Jaws Harp that sounds as close as possible to the real thing.
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-I agree on that... I'm pretty sure we all do.
I have midrange PSR-SX700 keyboard, so I can't speak about sounds in Genos, PaX5, etc. Demos aren't really of that much help, because music is chosen in a way, which shows sounds in the best light. And so it happens I find musicians playing on Youtube as a better source.
What I think, many times we're mixing two things: how close to original some voice sounds, and, how good some voice imitates the original sound. Speaking for my keyboard, and having in mind instruments I've listen in real life, most voices are imitations only -far from "close to original". I don't talk about electric guitars, synth's and similar -they're artificial by nature and can sound in many ways. I talk about real acoustic instruments. I doubt if that many voices were actually created by recording real instruments.
And then, there are a limitations on how we can play certain voice (instrument) on keyboard. Violins (string orchestra) for example... here, glissando/portamento is one of the very important expressions -on keyboard however, that only works in mono (single note) mode. And is influenced only by "linear" portamento time.. means, the time is the same for two adjacent notes and for two distant notes -that's not how it's done on real instrument. And so, many times even relative simple pieces of music, can't be performed well.
In short, for keyboards, there's a LOT of room for improvements.
Bogdan
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I talk about real acoustic instruments. I doubt if that many voices were actually created by recording real instruments.
I would disagree with that - all the 'acoustic' voices on SX and Genos are generated from wave samples.
But I think this is the key point. A sample can sound great when played skillfully, using all the dynamic and articulation options available. Or the same sample can sound awful when played in a monotonous, clumsy way. That's what people mean when they say it's the player that makes the most contribution to the overall performance.
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The Saxes are awful in my view as they sound thin and washed out :)
Piano's and Synths are Korgs asset and the rest Yamaha knocks the arranger market into touch
All those fiddly buttons on the Pax5 makes for an overcrowded dust collector.
Nice wooden ends though and no print on the buttons.
Genos is still the KING!! 8)
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A sample can sound great when played skillfully, using all the dynamic and articulation options available.
Truer words were never spoken. When playing a sax sample, you can't think like a piano player. You must leverage your saxophone brain.
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The Saxes are awful in my view……
Ok John, we get it, you prefer the Genos sax. But awful .. hardly. We all have personal preference, but most people think the Korg voices overall to be very good. In fact all these TOTL arrangers - Ketron, Genos, Korg - sound very good to me, not a lot between them.
Mike
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On both the Genos and the Pa5X there are plenty of different Sax voices to choose from. We've heard a few on the internet regarding the Pa5X Saxes with some better than others. But again, the nice thing about the Pa5X and the Genos is the ability to shape the sound to more your liking using the Voice Edit features. Korg actually has an advantage in that realm since the Editing tools are more comprehensive with greater microscopic editing capability. What we're mainly hearing from the Korg currently is 'out of box' sounds. When the major OS update is released in December for the Pa5X I wouldn't be surprised if the overall sound is improved on many of the individual instrument sounds. Here's another example of Saxes & Brass Combo sounds from the Pa5X. Out of the Box they sound pretty good in my opinion. Saxes & Brass Combo (https://www.dropbox.com/s/mm05rfoegoxytnt/Saxes%20%26%20Brass%20Combo.wav?dl=0)
All the best,
Mike
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Reading the reply’s makes me think what we are really looking for. If it’s wanting to sound like a real instrument then try Kontakt 7, some of the instruments are very good but they have loads of options so I would not like to try live, plus you need first class gear for the actual sound. Then there is software like Presonus, band in a box, Cubase and many more, it’s all down to what you want, plus how much you are prepared to pay, which for me, at it is just a hobby cost is a factor. I’ve still got my psr3000 and enjoy playing it, plus a midi keyboard which I use with garage band. I don’t honestly think it matters because I only play at home what I use, I just enjoy all the options available.
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To John's point about awful sax voices on the 5X. I think they're okay but still not quite as good as the "out of the box" shape of the Genos sax voices. What's questionable about the 5X sax voices is how they're played in the demos. You can tell that the person who's playing them has not done their homework in listening to real sax players and using those techniques as much a possible. The R&B band I joined a year ago required me to do a lot of sax solos. I studied the technique for hours to get the sound I (they) wanted. I'm still not exactly like the real thing and never will be, but I'm much closer than the person playing the demo on the 5X videos.
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Genos is the best keyboard till now...(change my mind).
I have a whale of a time with my keyboard at home, when i play at gigs it always rocks and the possibilities are infinite i have plenty of libraries, samples and styles. What i highly recommend you is to edit your midi files and styles to your taste. Some could argue that some sounds or midi files don't sound so real but what does the trick is the edition!
I'm really happy with it.
Greetings.
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Genos is the best keyboard till now...(change my mind).
I have a whale of a time with my keyboard at home, when i play at gigs it always rocks and the possibilities are infinite i have plenty of libraries, samples and styles. What i highly recommend you is to edit your midi files and styles to your taste. Some could argue that some sounds or midi files don't sound so real but what does the trick is the edition!
I'm really happy with it.
Greetings.
Agreed but my big beef with the Genos is the weak piano, e.piano, and organ voices. These are at the heart of all keyboards. For nearly $7,000, they had better sound like the real things! My other issue is the clunky style editor. I'm very capable of creating my own styles but I simply refuse to do them on such a pathetic editor. For what we pay for the Genos, there should be PC and Mac editors available for download. Perhaps in Genos 2? If not, I may move on to a different arranger.
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I started experimenting with the V3 Sound YAMMEX XXL expansion module. Found one on ebay at a ridiculous price...
The drawbar organs are all sampled. Some have the Leslie sampled in, some are without Leslie. The sans-Leslie voices are intended for post-processing by a pedal. Through a Lester K, they beat the Montage/MODX and Genos hands-down.
The YAMMEX XXL has two decent grands: a Bosendorfer Imperial 290 and a Steinway D. They are better than the MODX CFX although the playing experience may be better from the Genos FSX keybed. (Haven't tried yet.)
The EPs are good although the selection is limited: MK1, A200, MK1 dyno, FM. They are a little too clean, but the Lester K overdrive can dirty them up. :) 8)
Yep, there is room for improvement in Genos.
All the best -- pj
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Good to know, PJ. For what we pay for a Genos, it should sound as good as the YAMMEX XXL.
I'm still curious about the Lester G. Should I buy one or wait for Genos 2?
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Hey PJ and Lee :
Referring to your comments, I wonder if it might be possible a last Genos' update will follow before Yamaha are going to introduce the Genos2 or ... is this question unthinkable ? :P
Best regards, JH
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... is this question unthinkable ?
... it is *un-knowable* to anyone outside Yamaha.
But this doesn't prevent people from continually asking !!!
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agree, and still many want to answer on that question ....ehh because.. it's raining outside ;D ;)
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Hi Jeff,
I think if the Genos 2 is close to being released, say summer 2023, then any further updates other than bug fixes, are probably not coming. If Yamaha is way behind schedule, they may offer up another hidden gem in the Genos, just to keep its client base interested.
From what I've seen, I don't think either will happen. My registration issue (bug) is an isolated case. The recent update was a bug fix and some other things they didn't mention. (I hate when they do that!!)
With the cyclic nature of Covid and other viruses, I've gone from playing 100 shows a year down to about 40. The latter ones are crammed into the summer months because indoor venues are still somewhat dangerous or simply foolish without a mask and plexiglass shield. I'll be 70 next birthday and am having doubts about buying Genos 2, unless it's a major game changer. An "improved" Genos won't cut it for me. I have a little less faith in Yamaha's QC than I did a year ago, between an OS system issue they can't fix and cheap construction.
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Hi Lee,
I have just listened to Jean Martyn a professional player using Genos to play piano.
It sounded fantastic and she also plays a Steinway and this was just as good to listen to.
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I found this video of her playing. She's amazing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfNOxWldcR8
I somehow doubt the Genos would hold a candle to a Steinway but that's a totally unfair comparison 😀. I'd still like Yamaha to up their game with the core Genos voices. They've done so well with all the others.
Edit
Like most videos, I wish they'd place the camera overhead!! Aside from her stellar performance, it would be great to see her hands. Videographers, take notice!
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Hi Lee :
You are a professional gigger ; playing music is your daily income.
You had a very difficult time ( Covid ).
I would sincerely hope Yamaha could help you out asap !
Cross my fingers !
All the best, JH
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Thanks, Jeff! At least my Genos is still playable 100%. It's just a little inconvenient. When I get it solved, I'll share the information with this forum.
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One more thing, Eileen - thanks for sharing that video of Jean Martyn! She is a remarkable player and I'm ashamed to say I had never heard of her. I will start following her on YouTube 😉. I wish I was half as good. Like Peter Baartmans, she makes the Genos sing like a bird.
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Lee
I don’t have a Genos, but have a CVP 705 which probably has a better, but only marginally better, piano voice.
But the big difference is keyboard feel, which is way better. And even that comes nowhere close to the feel and resonance of a Steinway or other TOTL grands pianos, like Bosendorfer, Fazioli or Shigeru. If you asked Jean Martyn what she thinks of the Genos, I bet she would not be unhappy with the basic piano voice, it’s the feel and the resonance that sets top grand pianos apart.
None of the arrangers or even straight digitals, get get can close to that. The Korg is good, but when both played equally well, I doubt anyone would notice a difference between the Korg and the Genos. Maybe the player, but not the average listener.
I see so many comments about piano quality on Yamaha arrangers, people want them to sound and play like a Steinway. But I have never seen anyone complain that Steinway need to come up to date and have a button that switches on a jazz trio accompaniment like a Genos! And they cost more than ten times the Genos.
The instruments are just different with different qualities, but both top examples of their type.
Mike
BTW - an aside, - although Jean Martyn is a good player, you would expect that at her level. But for this style of piano playing, listen to the great BG Adair from Nashville, who is my favorite in this genre of very listenable jazz piano trio. Now in her eighties, her jazz phrasing is beautifully restrained, inventive and lush without ever drifting too much from the original tune. I can listen to her for hours, and if I could wave a magic wand I would want to play just like BG Adair.
Mike
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Good to know, PJ. For what we pay for a Genos, it should sound as good as the YAMMEX XXL.
I'm still curious about the Lester G. Should I buy one or wait for Genos 2?
Hi Lee --
That's a tough question. For myself, I don't think I will upgrade to a Genos Mk2 unless Yamaha produce something utterly fantastic and impossible to refuse. I enjoy playing what I have. Thus, I'm willing to splash out for a new pedal or whatever now and then. (Usually a "used" object that's lost its shine and premium. )
There's a lot to be said for staying "all in one" when gigging. I play out with a small bag: music book, a few cables, sustain pedal, expression pedal, power supply, direct box and eyeglasses. Even that seems like too much. ::) I'm always afraid that I will leave some random thing behind (especially those eyeglasses). Taking Lester K means an additional cable, pedal and power supply. Lester doesn't give me enough sonic reason to take it to the church gig where the internal rotary sim does just fine.
Hope this opinion is helpful -- pj
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But the big difference is keyboard feel, which is way better. And even that comes nowhere close to the feel and resonance of a Steinway or other TOTL grands pianos, like Bosendorfer, Fazioli or Shigeru.
Mike
Hi Mike --
I don't think I emphasized this point enough in my YAMMEX post. A big part of the "piano experience" is the playing action, the feel and the hand-sound connection. We agree.
I detest playing acoustic piano sounds on a synth action keybed. I prefer the Genos FSX keybed over the MODX and sometimes MIDI the two together. Would I take a CVP or better -- you bet!!!
All the best to ya -- pj
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Hi Mike,
I shall check out BG Adair. I've never heard of him either. I sometimes wonder if I've been living under a cabbage leaf for the past 60 years or so 🤣🤣🤣! Good point about the Genos piano or any other electronic piano ever achieving the sound of a real piano. The physics just aren't there - although, some companies have come close.
Hi PJ,
You're right about the Lester K. It's another device to hook up in conditions where the band is pressed for time. And to be fair, the B3s I'm using in the mix probably sound just fine to the other band members and audience. If I was being recorded, that would be different. I'd use a real B3 or a really good VST sample.
Thanks guys...
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Lee, Actually BG Adair is a lady. I said she was in her 80s and I thought she was still playing, but I found out that she died earlier this year. She has been my go to player when I want to sit back, with a glass of wine and soak in the music.
As well, as performing, and recording, she was a professor of jazz music at University in Nashville. She made dozens of albums, check out on Spotify. Her style is so relaxed, and does not sound complicated, like an Oscar Peterson or Bill Evans, and I always think, I could do that’ but when I try to copy it just doesn’t come out like her. It’s much more subtle than it sounds.
Mike
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Oops, "lady." Thanks for the correction and I apologize for the error. I shall Google her and listen for playing styles she may still be releasing to us 😉.
It sounds like she's much like Ray Charles. He made his playing sound easy until you start analyzing his passages. They're trickier than you think. Another master of the 88 keys.
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Hi Guys :
All modern new arranger keyboard's features and sounds have been improved tremendesly.
Nowadays all enduser prices have also been increased significantly. ::)
The newest Korg PA5X's delivery has been delayed due to ( software ) bugs and maybe other problems.
A huge update has been promised for December 2022.
In November/December 2022 the Ketron/Event will be available in our music shops.
At least ( small ? ) bugs can be expected, IMO.
Yamaha will take all the time and knowledge needed to introduce a Genos2, I guess. :)
For me a 61n version is a must but ... I am afraid only a 76n will be available. :-X
Best regards, JH
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Why buy a new Genos?
Plenty of good used products out there if you shop around
In the UK you can buy a Genos in excellent condition with speakers for under £3000
As we know Yamaha products last forever.........................
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Please define 'the most bang ..'? ;)
When you were 18 :) ;)
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As we know Yamaha products last forever.........................
One small error. I fixed it for you 🤣
As we know Yamaha products used to last forever.........................
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"As we know Yamaha products used to last forever........................."
And that is my experience.
I had a Yamaha PSR3000 for several years which showed very little signs of wear and never developed a fault.
My Tyros 5, after only 6 years of very modest, careful home use (and used less than my PSR3000 was), has ugly wear on several buttons (the silvery finish has worn off), and has developed a number of permanent and intermittent faults.
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My Tyros 5, after only 6 years of very modest, careful home use (and used less than my PSR3000 was), has ugly wear on several buttons (the silvery finish has worn off), and has developed a number of permanent and intermittent faults.
In today's world they call that "profit."
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Lee, Actually BG Adair is a lady. I said she was in her 80s and I thought she was still playing, but I found out that she died earlier this year. She has been my go to player when I want to sit back, with a glass of wine and soak in the music.
As well, as performing, and recording, she was a professor of jazz music at University in Nashville. She made dozens of albums, check out on Spotify. Her style is so relaxed, and does not sound complicated, like an Oscar Peterson or Bill Evans, and I always think, I could do that’ but when I try to copy it just doesn’t come out like her. It’s much more subtle than it sounds.
Mike
I discovered BeeGee a number of years ago when Pandora played her music a lot. If you haven't listened to her arrangements of the standards then you've missed something truly great. She will be missed.
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Oops, "lady." Thanks for the correction and I apologize for the error. I shall Google her and listen for playing styles she may still be releasing to us 😉.
It sounds like she's much like Ray Charles. He made his playing sound easy until you start analyzing his passages. They're trickier than you think. Another master of the 88 keys.
Hello Lee, here is a small sample of the musical talent of BG Adair
Cheers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOtUIMrJUyc
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Good one Hans, the Autumn Leaves is great, and the Fly Me to the Moon that follows is absolutely sublime. Jazz piano at its best. I love the way her improv is always so melodic, and her syncopation spot on. Some of her peers got more press because they were more showy, slamming in amazing fast two handed runs and way out harmony. but she is understated, and always keeps the music front and center rather than just showing off her technical skill.
Mike
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Thanks Hans!
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A Genos "end of life" has the advantage that after all the
updates and upgrades this one is at the peak of its development,
with few (if any) errors.
This is still a fantastic device with huge potential.
When a new device comes out, the old model is
often sold at a greatly reduced price to liquidate stock
or with some extras.
Since 2017, Genos had until now (2022) numerous
updates to fix bugs.
A new model will most likely not be flawless
and will also need updates again over time
to become a top product.
IMO. is it worth putting these statements
to take into consideration.
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I believe Yamaha Genos is a brilliant professional Arranger Workstation. As I have played this beautiful device, I say, it is still the best.
Having said that, I would wait for the replacement of the current Genos considering that I paying AU$6,499.00 as the best price here in Australia, then I'm willing to wait till around Christmas as I have a feeling that Yamaha would delight us all with a brand new model.
MRP in Australia is AU$7,999.00 which is equivalent to $5,472 US, and £4,179.