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Genos (12 Boards) => Genos - General => Topic started by: Lee Batchelor on September 17, 2022, 12:47:34 PM

Title: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 17, 2022, 12:47:34 PM
Hi folks,

I'm opening this topic again because I really need a solution.

No matter what I do, I can't make the Style Mixer Slider window appear as the default window in any registration. It won't even work when I check the Live Control box in the Memory area. If I display the Style Mixer Slider window, press Save with Live Control checked, the next time I open the registration, the Knob Assign window appears 👿! Oddly enough, the Organ sliders are saved as the default window but not the Style Mixer Slider window!!

This has happened ever since updating to 2.2. I played a show the other night and every time I called a registration for the next song, I had to either press the Registration #1 button twice, or call the Slider Assign window manually. This is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE. Is there no solution?? Can I roll the OS back to 2.1?

In an earlier post, Stijn mentioned that the Reset functions will not fix this. Why has this issue only reared its ugly head in the 2.2 update and non of the previous ones??
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: vlbrgt on September 17, 2022, 01:23:37 PM
Wasn't the latest update not 2.11 ?
I am not aware of a 2.2 update.

Regards
Etienne
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Fred Smith on September 17, 2022, 02:11:29 PM
Yes, you can roll back to 2.10, as long as you saved the installation file, or find someone who has it.

Cheers,
Fred
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Bill on September 17, 2022, 08:31:18 PM
Hi Lee

I assume you are taking about the Aux. Display not the main screen display.

To get the Slider Display window on the Aux Screen to appear instead of the Rotary Knob window, make sure you Tick the "Assignable Buttons" when saving a Reg.

I have included the feature in my "Startup Reg."

Old Registration will change it back to the default unless you Set up the parameters to include assignable buttons and then use the freeze button.

If you have lots of incorrect setup Reg. Use Murray Best’s program in batch mode to make them all correct.

Hope it helps

Bill
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 18, 2022, 03:01:59 AM
Thanks, all. I may have the OS version wrong. Between Windows, Android, phones, and dozens of apps and programs, the version numbers are just a blur.

I doubt that I can roll back my OS. I have no idea how to do that and with lots of gigs coming up, I can't take the chance. I'll take a look at Bill's suggestion to see how I'm saving the Registrations. One thing is for certain - all the registrations were perfect before this last boondoggle from Yamaha!!

There is often so much damage done by updates in software.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Fred Smith on September 18, 2022, 04:22:14 AM
I doubt that I can roll back my OS. I have no idea how to do that

It's simply an OS install. Same as every other update. You acquire v2.10 and install it.

Cheers,
Fred
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: vlbrgt on September 18, 2022, 09:54:28 AM
Go to the download page for the Genos Firmware Updater :
https://nl.yamaha.com/nl/support/updates/firm_genos.html
Scroll down to the Version History.
Look at the [V1.30 to V1.40]
They clearly state,
The previous firmware cannot be restored after updating the firmware to this version

This is not mentioned with the newer firmware updates.
So I suppose it is possible to go back from v2.11 to v2.10 or ...
If not possible I think Yamaha would have mention it ?

Regards
Etienne
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Bill on September 18, 2022, 12:28:09 PM
Hi  Lee

I have included my Basic Setup reg below.  You will notice I have altered the names slightly on the Aux. Display to make then easier to read.

https://app.box.com/s/gdxzr8xkn7uruei2b0r6ajsrwakp50m6

Interesting though when I first looked this morning I was showing Ver 2.10 I started the install to see if I actually had the Ver 2.10 on my USB Stick. Is I downloaded 2.11 and put it on the USB.  However I decided to NOT install it (It had not started to install it)  Switch the KB off and back on and it showed Ver. 2.11. So now I'm totally confused.

Regards

Bill
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 18, 2022, 01:05:18 PM
Thanks guys. As mentioned, I have some shows coming up. I don't think I'll mess with an OS change at this point. Whatever they did with 2.11, it sure messed up my default Aux window! WTH were they thinking??
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 18, 2022, 01:07:26 PM
Bill wrote "To get the Slider Display window on the Aux Screen to appear instead of the Rotary Knob window, make sure you Tick the "Assignable Buttons" when saving a Reg."

I did that and also clicked Live control. It doesn't work. The wrong default window is etched in stone with Version 2.11 👿!
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 18, 2022, 03:31:54 PM
Okay, I've decided to try rolling back to Version 2.10 from 2.11. I need to get this perfect. The only real enhancements I needed from the original OS is:

1) Tempo reset to the first beat by pressing the Tap Tempo button.
2) The function that gives focus to a knob or slider before any change is made.

To Fred's point, I can download Version 2.10 and read the instructions hopefully that Yamaha provides for such a rollback. Prior to doing this, I put the Genos into USB mode and copied the directories shown in the attached pic. Is there anything else I need to do? Perhaps a full backup? Thanks.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Fred Smith on September 18, 2022, 03:47:19 PM
Okay, I've decided to try rolling back to Version 2.10 from 2.11. I need to get this perfect. The only real enhancements I needed from the original OS is:

1) Tempo reset to the first beat by pressing the Tap Tempo button.
2) The function that gives focus to a knob or slider before any change is made.

To Fred's point, I can download Version 2.10 and read the instructions hopefully that Yamaha provides for such a rollback. Prior to doing this, I put the Genos into USB mode and copied the directories shown in the attached pic. Is there anything else I need to do? Perhaps a full backup?

The problem is you can’t download 2.10 (at least from the Yamaha site) as they keep only the latest version on their site. You will need to have kept the file on your computer, or find someone who has it.

In terms of what to do beforehand, it’s an OS install. Do what you do for an OS install. For me, that’s nothing, but for you it might be something else.

Cheers,
Fred
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 18, 2022, 06:07:10 PM
Okay, I didn't know that Fred. I don't have 2.10. Anyone willing to share it? Thanks.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 18, 2022, 06:52:36 PM
New information
I see a pattern. Here's a series of events that I can't explain nor can anyone on this site so far.


It seems that I can fix all my Registration Banks one at a time but as soon as I call one that's not fixed, the Genos ignores all my previous fixes that I checked in the Memory window. I'm not sure but I think power cycling the Genos fixes the error.

What the heck gives? Is this truly an OS problem or do I have a corrupted file somewhere. I checked the version notes and the only difference between 2.10 and 2.11 is that they fixed a problem in which MIDI template files could not be saved under normal operation. I doubt rolling back to 2.10 is going to solve anything.

Something isn't right and it's very disruptive during a show. Thanks :D.

Edit
On power cycling the Genos, I load Registration Bank 3 and the Knob Assign window appears. I load another registration where the Slider Assign window was displayed and when I reload I Registration Bank 3, it's okay now. It's as though the Knob and Slider windows are stored randomly and not as part of the registration, when in fact, the necessary parameters for this to occur are consistently being ignored. This never happened before the 2.11 update.

I'm completely stumped. If I didn't know any better, I'd swear Yamaha got Microsoft to do the update. This is the kind of nonsense you get from those people 🙄!
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Stijn on September 18, 2022, 07:07:35 PM
Here is a link to the Genos firmware update 2.10

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a0orrker4xdjqnc/GENOSSETUP.PRG?dl=0

Regards,

Stijn

Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 18, 2022, 07:10:16 PM
Thanks, Stijn! Do you think this will help after reading my ramblings?
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Stijn on September 18, 2022, 07:20:35 PM
I don't know if it will solve the problem, but there's no harm in trying.
You can safely do the update 2.10 and check out if there is a difference.

Afterwards you can do the update 2.11 again.

Stijn
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Stijn on September 18, 2022, 07:26:14 PM
Lee, I sent a PM (on this forum).

Edit

Lee, can you check the update version on your Genos?

-Call up the operation display via [MENU] - [Utility]
-Touch [System]  -->  Version  xxx

Stijn

Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 18, 2022, 07:54:31 PM
Lee, I sent a PM (on this forum).

Edit

Lee, can you check the update version on your Genos?

-Call up the operation display via [MENU] - [Utility]
-Touch [System]  -->  Version  xxx

Stijn
Well, this is embarrassing! I checked and it shows that I'm still running 2.02 🙄!! I thought I had updated to 2.11 long ago. Oops, my bad! I suppose I'm safe to download 2.11 and install it?

From the Yamaha website it reads:
[V2.00 to V2.01]
Fixed a problem in which the Registration Memory function would not work properly in some cases.


I'd lay odds that my problem has been fixed by Yamaha and I was too dumb to update my Genos correctly! I could have sworn that I loaded 2.11. Perhaps I downloaded 2.11 but grabbed the wrong file and reloaded 2.02 🙄. Perhaps I've had too many birthdays?

Many thanks to Stijn for asking me to check my OS version number. Duh....😀.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 19, 2022, 03:45:30 PM
I updated to Version 2.11. The Knob and Slider windows still display as though they have a mind of their own. Stijn is right. There's no solution to this problem and it SUCKS BIG TIME!! I assume everyone has the same behavior in their Genos? It may not matter to some but for stage work, it is a major distraction and can really mess up your shows.

Picture this scenario
You're doing a demanding show. You call 6 registrations in a row and they all display the Slider window as the default. You can make dynamic changes as you play. Wonderful! You call song Registration 7 and the Knob window is displayed but you don't notice the change because you have the opening riffs and licks. You get through those few demanding passages and into the body of the song but realize, the Right 1 voice is a bit loud. You grab that slider only to find out the Slider window has changed to Knob even though you memorized the registration correctly.

And that my friends is on Yamaha. They tout the Genos as a pro-level keyboard. I submit that they're wrong in so many ways. I never had this issue with the first OS release, nor the Tyros models. Guess I have to live with it and adjust that window display manually for each registration by pressing the appropriate button twice. They need to fire the chimpanzee who authorized that OS code 👎👎👎!!
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Stijn on September 19, 2022, 07:05:06 PM
I modified all my registrations with success.
All the registration buttons now use the Slider Assign display.

Stijn
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Bill on September 19, 2022, 07:15:49 PM
Hi Lee

Thanks for the update - Intriguing

To summarise -
Buttons 1-6 behave as expected, but when you push Reg 7 the display changes to Knob control.

Couple of questions / comments.

1  What happens when you reselect Button 1 does it change back to Slider Control.
2  What happens when you apply the Freeze button (with only the Live Control and Assignable selected)
3  Have you attempted to resave Button 7 after you re-apply the Slider Control.
4  You could attach one of your Suspect Reg and let us have a look at it. 
    Quite often you (all of us) can get to focussed on a problem and need time away.
5. I have not encountered your Problem.
6  It would be nice is others could comment whether there are having problems.
7  The only problem that I can visulise is a possible dirty track on one of the Knob controls, and the keyboard gets confused and think you have actually touched on of them.

Regards
Bill

Regards


Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 19, 2022, 07:50:03 PM
Hi Bill,

Thanks for chiming. I should clarify my terminology. In my examples, Registration 1 refers to a bank, not just Button 1 inside a bank. Sorry for the confusion. So, Registrations 1 to 6 are 6 banks, 1 per song = 6 songs. Registration 7 is another song. So, 7 songs in all.

Stijn posted that his works perfectly. He has graciously offered to look over a few of my registrations to see why the Slider window is not being memorized. I'm most intrigued by your suggestion #7. I virtually never use the knobs. That is a definite possibility. I have a can of contact cleaner. Perhaps I could shoot a wee bit into each knob shaft? Other times, I've just worked a knob or slider back and forth so it strips off any oxide.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: DerekA on September 20, 2022, 12:24:30 PM
I am just wondering because I'm not at the keyboard just now.

There's only one live control screen, and it always shows *either* the knob functions or the slider functions. But when it's showing the knob functions, the sliders still work and still operate whatever the current 'set' of assignments operate. If you move a slider, the display will switch to showing the slider functions.

So I'm wondering even if the screen shows the knob functions, do the sliders still do what you wanted them to do?
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 20, 2022, 12:53:17 PM
Hi Derek,

I didn't know that if the Knob window was displayed, the Slider window would appear just by moving a slider. Good to know. The real issue is, for the slider to do something it must receive the focus first. Then, adjustments are made. There is also more than one slider window. Sometimes I need the organ sliders made available so I can adjust the footages. The choice of Slider window used to be memorized by the registration. With the new OS updates, sometimes it works and sometimes it reverts to the Knob display. Also, if the Knobs are displayed and you want to adjust Right 3 (for example), with your method you can easily miss and move the wrong slider because you don't have the labeling from the Slider window.

Stijn says his choice of Slider window is always memorized in his registrations. I sent him a dozen or so of mine. He's going to see if there's something wrong with mine. Thanks for chiming in ;).
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 20, 2022, 09:01:26 PM
Thanks to everyone who helped me with this issue. I'd like to give a special thanks to Stijn. He looked at a dozen or so of my registrations and found the issue, thanks to Murray's Best's program. Thanks to you too, Murray!

Turns out some of my registrations were not memorized with the Live Control box checked. When I loaded one of those registrations, the Genos reverted to the Knob settings. I should have done what most people do and that is to create the perfect registration template. When a new song is created, I use the template and save it under the new song name. Can't miss. I'm glad there's nothing wrong with my Genos or its OS. In the back of my mind I was thinking it could be pilot error. Stijn proved it 🙄!

Thanks again Stijn, Murray, and the others who helped 👍!
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: vlbrgt on September 20, 2022, 09:50:38 PM
What is a 'Perfect Registration Template' ?
I always start with an empty registration.
That empty registration has been made by starting the Genos while holding down the second most right key.
I saved this registration, and call it everytime I start creating a new one.
Is that what you refered to as the 'perfect registration template' ?

Regards
Etienne
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 20, 2022, 10:07:57 PM
For me, a perfect registration presents a decent baseline sound.

* Usually Concert Grand for Right 1.
* Drastically reduced reverb on all channels because Yamaha still lives in the 70s and believes you can hide flaws in one's playing by adding copious amounts of reverb.
* A custom rotary organ effect.
* All pertinent check boxes selected in the Memory box.
* Kick and toms routed to Sub Out 1 because Yamaha sets those two drum volumes WAY TOO loud for people who choose to use real speakers.
* Probably a few other parameters I've neglected to mention because I'm not in front of my Genos 😀.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: EileenL on September 20, 2022, 11:41:31 PM
Your perfect Registration template would be to make sure you select and tick all the memory boxes for things you want to happen when that registration is selected.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 21, 2022, 12:18:03 AM
Good thought, Eileen. Thanks...
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 21, 2022, 03:23:05 PM
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I'm back to square one 👿!!

I'm fixing my registrations where the Live Control box was not checked. I resave the registration with the Live Control box checked and the Slider window selected. It works until I load a different registration. When I load the one I fixed, it reverts to the Knob window again. I figured the original one must be corrupted, so I save it under a different name. It too works once but on opening it a second time, the Knob window appears. Same thing happens with subsequent registrations that were always working!!

It seems that even with the Live Control checked, it's not remembered and that fixing an existing registration never works. It sounds like a broken registration must be deleted and a new one created. That will take hours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Is there no solution to this issue?? And please don't suggest the Freeze button. It seriously messes up some of the custom styles. Besides, it's not telling me why this crapola is happening in the first place. It's only a bandage. Murray's program is excellent but it won't work for this issue.

I never had this nonsense with the first Genos OS versions nor my Tyros models. I'm ready to toss this thing in the lake!!
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 21, 2022, 03:57:49 PM
More info

There is no consistency in this error. The appearance of Slider vs. Knob windows is entirely random. The Slider window shows up on first pressing of a registration button (1-10) and the next time it shows the Knob window, despite the Live Control being checked and told to memorize the Slider window by default. I even loaded a bunch of registrations into Murray's program, made sure they were all correct, re-saved them, and then loaded them into my Genos. Murray's program says the registrations are fine. The Genos doesn't load them correctly. Stijn noted this and found it very odd.

I'm wondering if I need to invoke some of the reset functions. What happens when I do a Registration Reset? Do I loose all my registrations? What about a System reset?
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: DerekA on September 21, 2022, 05:28:22 PM
According to the Genos data manual, a registration should save "Sub Display Content" which I take it to mean showing slider .v. knob labels.

So it sounds like there is some kind of bug in this process. I wouldn't keep on banging my head off a brick wall if it just doesn't work consistently. All you can do is submit a bug report to Yamaha and see if they fix it in a future update (if there are any).

Why don't you just assign the knobs *and* the sliders to do whatever it is that's so critical for the sliders to do? Then it doesn't matter which one is displayed in the sub window. Not ideal, but better than fishing your Genos out of that lake. 😎
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 21, 2022, 06:13:01 PM
I suspect you're right, Derek. I think there is a software bug in my Genos. If it required an update from Yamaha, there would be hundreds of users affected. I wonder how I submit this in Canada. Perhaps they can walk me through some key combo to see what's up. Thanks for chiming in.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 21, 2022, 06:18:55 PM
Okay, I just submitted my problem to Yamaha Canada and received a confirmation that they received my request. I'll post any updates.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 21, 2022, 09:41:25 PM
I spent my afternoon working on 50 registrations in one folder. I discovered that when I deleted the bad ones and recreated them, they worked perfectly. I also discovered that if one bad one was left behind and it was activated, it affected the fixed ones in that folder. Sort of "one rotten apple in a barrel spoils the lot." After I deleted the bad one, the rest went back to behaving correctly. Strange how one bad registration in a folder can affect the whole folder!

Looks like I have a bunch of corrupted registrations. I'm going to delete that bad ones and rebuild them. I'm not sure if this was due to me not including the Live Control check box for new registrations or some incompatibility brought over from the T5. Either way, it's manual labor to fix the rotten ones and hours of work. Maybe Yamaha will have a global fix. I doubt it though.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 23, 2022, 12:52:56 PM
Further updates


Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: EileenL on September 23, 2022, 02:55:58 PM
I took it that saving Subs meant how you had the sub speakers set. I have often had someone say they have downloaded a registration and do not get any sound from the style. When looking into it I found they were set to Sub 1 or 2. When putting the ticks back into main they worked fine.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 23, 2022, 03:25:30 PM
Excellent thought, Eileen.

Some of my registrations (most in fact) have the Toms and Kick routed to the Sub Out 1 because they are way out of balance when played through large quality sound systems like mine. I don't know how Yamaha missed that! I know they don't play if I don't bother to route the Sub Out 1 to one of the channels in my external mixer.

How that would affect the Knob window being displayed versus the Slider window, when the Slider window was saved in the Live Control settings, is beyond me. I heard back from Yamaha support and they wanted a detailed description of what's going wrong. I sent it and am waiting to hear back. Personally, I think there is a corrupted file somewhere in my OS. This isn't over yet. I'm confident Yamaha will get to the bottom of it. I'll certainly let everyone know what they find.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: EileenL on September 23, 2022, 03:41:29 PM
Hi Lee,
  I was only referring to the Sub display screen you talked about as I know it.
It dose not have anything to do with your problem. If you had made a master set up registration at the beginning with all the boxes you ticked for things you wanted to be saved and named it something like master, and then removed those ticks before saving any other banks it would worked as you want it to. On switch on just load in Master bank and then continue by playing your other registration banks.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 23, 2022, 04:46:17 PM
Good point, Eileen. The problem is, even when I correct that mistake on every registration that didn't have the Live Control box checked, the minute I open a defective registration, the problem is back and corrupts the registrations that were working fine. That shouldn't happen! Not everyone uses a Master registration. I will from here on though ;)! There's something wrong when a corrected file reverts to an incorrect file format. That's on Yamaha to fix.

I never had this problem with the first OS release in 2017. It's been a problem ever since these updates. Correct me if I'm wrong but there is no mention of needing to use a Master registration in any of the manuals. It's a great idea but the registrations shouldn't fail just because on or two incorrect registrations exist. The incorrect registrations are corrupting the correct ones. That's none of my doing. There's something wrong with my Genos.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: murrayb on September 23, 2022, 09:44:28 PM
Lee:

I suggest that there is an o/s error after version2.0 that is causing this problem.  I'm behind on updating, still running version 2.0 and there is no problem at all with controlling the live control screen.

First, the existence of a registration bank in a folder that has a problem will have absolutely no effect on the keyboard as only the values of the registration bank being loaded update the settings. However, loading a corrupted file may distort other settings within the o/s.

Stijn, sent me a registration that was demonstrating the behavior you describe, and it opened properly on my Genos. I duplicated this registration (in YRM), and set each with a different live control screen and each operated correctly. 

The usual response in settings on the keyboard is to leave the previous settings unchanged if a registration doesn't contain a particular group.  That is why when you open a bank/button that contains a Song (MIDI or audio), that song will remain on the screen until you select a registration with a different song, and will be memorized in a subsequent registration (where you didn't want it) if song is checked.

So further testing revealed that the live control screen on my version of the o/s will stay at the last setting when a registration is opened that doesn't contain live control, it didn't revert to knob.

If the coding of the registration file is any example of the rest of the programming of the Genos o/s, there is lots of opportunity to create errors, and this is likely one of them.

Cheers,

Murray



 
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 24, 2022, 01:49:31 PM
Wow, thanks Murray!

You've basically proven that there's something wrong with the Genos OS, later versions. What's troubling is I'm the only one reporting this problem. I wonder how many others are experiencing the same issue but could care less or just didn't see it. They just press Registration Button 1 a second time and the problem goes away. Also, if you use a bunch of registrations that don't have the knob setting set, you'll never see the problem. This is definitely a design problem where the registrations are not storing all the settings correctly. I may have discovered a flaw Yamaha has never seen. If I'm right, they need to fix their OS, and pronto!! It is a deal breaker for us gigging musicians.

I think it's safe to conclude that I have about 90% of my registrations saved with Live Control > Slider selected. It's that 10% where I failed to store those settings that is causing the issue. My only solution is to go though all of my registrations and make sure Live Control > Slider is selected and saved. If there's even one faulty registration, the whole apple cart is upset. Something else no one has thought of: What if you want (for example) 75% of your registrations stored with the Slider window and 25% with the Knob window. Obviously, it won't work as expected. Here's a scenario:

1 - Call Reg Bank 1 (Slider)
2 - Call Reg Bank 2 (Knob)
3 - Call Reg Bank 3 (Slider) You get Knob instead 👿!

I'll keep everyone posted about Yamaha's response. Thanks again, Murray!
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: tyrosman on September 24, 2022, 06:26:28 PM
i hope you get it sorted and hope we get an update ;)
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 24, 2022, 09:30:33 PM
Thanks, Tyrosman. Me too 😉. Something isn't right.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 27, 2022, 02:32:20 AM
Update
I haven't heard back from Yamaha Canada yet. I must have posed a real dome scratcher of a problem for them 🤣.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on September 30, 2022, 02:22:33 PM
I just received a reply from Yamaha Canada. He or she (no name was given in the reply) watched the video that Stijn made, which clearly demonstrates the issue. Thanks for that, Stijn!!

They've never seen this before, so I assume it will take time to resolve. I'm good with that. I suspect they'll need to contact the Yamaha software developers to see if they can resolve it. More to come, hopefully.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: vlbrgt on October 19, 2022, 03:14:15 PM
@Lee or Stijn,

Quote
I just received a reply from Yamaha Canada. He or she (no name was given in the reply) watched the video that Stijn made, which clearly demonstrates the issue. Thanks for that, Stijn!!
Is that video available somewhere ?

Regards
Etienne
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Stijn on October 19, 2022, 05:03:44 PM
Hi Etienne,

You can download the video here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nlotwery08hhu3r/genos%20regs.mp4?dl=0

Regards,
Stijn
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on October 19, 2022, 07:20:04 PM
Thank you, Stijn! You saved me the exercise of re-creating the link ;).

Still no further word from Yamaha. I've come to my own conclusion. Regardless of the OS version, if you have 500 registration banks (for example), and if even one has the Live Control box unchecked in the Memory screen, it sours the entire barrel of apples and Yamaha has never anticipated this.

Fred said I should load the most recent OS. He's probably right but I doubt it will make a difference. If they had addressed the issue with one of their mysterious "other problems fixed" items, I would have expected the support team to email me back to say, "Download and install V2.13." Meanwhile, my request sits there rotting in their queue and they're no longer talking to me.

I have one solution left. Go through every Registration Bank and resave them all with the Live Control box checked. If there is a way to do such a batch edit in Murray's program, I'd be happy to use it but I'd also need well written, detailed instructions because in consultations with Murray, some of those Registrations' Live control settings don't show up in his program and need to be manually turned on. I may as well do them all on the Genos instead :(.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: vlbrgt on October 19, 2022, 07:39:10 PM
I did some test and could not reproduce the problem exactly like on the video.
BUT I did found something about the double click on the buttom I think :

If I start with a template registration (Empty) that resides on the USER memory
and I save the created registration on the USER -> the double click seems to disappear.

If I start with a template registration (Empty) that resides on the USB
and I save the created registration on the USB -> the double click seems to disappear.

Only if I mix the USER template and USB save or vice versa it seems to need a double click on the REG button.
Switching from a good one to a mixed one gives the double click problem.

It has been a quick test.
Please verify if what i told is correct.

Regards
Etienne


Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on October 19, 2022, 07:46:36 PM
You're spot on, Etienne. Stijn did the same tests and came up with identical results. Here's the mystery: I never use USB sticks as a Reg Bank source. The results you got from mixing the User drive and USB sticks is what I'm getting with just my User drive. VERY annoying.

Thanks for spending the time to experiment. Therein lies the true value of this forum and the good people herein ;).
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: vlbrgt on October 19, 2022, 08:09:02 PM
@Stijn / Lee

The video you made, did you use your own registrations, or did you use registrations from Lee ?

Regards
Etienne
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Stijn on October 19, 2022, 08:15:29 PM
I used Lee's registrations.
I don't have any registrations with that odd behavior.

Regards,
Stijn
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Stijn on October 19, 2022, 08:21:46 PM
I have one solution left. Go through every Registration Bank and resave them all with the Live Control box checked. If there is a way to do such a batch edit in Murray's program, I'd be happy to use it but I'd also need well written, detailed instructions because in consultations with Murray, some of those Registrations' Live control settings don't show up in his program and need to be manually turned on. I may as well do them all on the Genos instead :(.

Lee, if you like I can try out the batch process for you.

Stijn
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on October 19, 2022, 08:27:04 PM
Lee, if you like I can try out the batch process for you.
Stijn
That's an incredible offer, Stijn! I hate to take so much of your time. If you're willing, I can send them all through regular email. If they are fixed after you work your magic, you may have to send me a bill 🤣! I'll download the whole works from my Genos and send them off. Many thanks!

Edit
I have made a master template as per so many suggestions from the wise folks on this forum. I labeled them "_template piano" and "_template organ." The underscore forces them to the top of the list.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: vlbrgt on October 19, 2022, 08:37:43 PM
@Stijn : thanks for the reply.

@Lee
The problem was not existing in 2.10 but came up with update 2.11.
Are there other users with the same problems ?
Quote
Fred said I should load the most recent OS
I think Fred is right somewhere.
Even reinstalling 2.10 or 2.11 could perhaps solve the problem, if not done yet ?
Perhaps when installing the 2.11 update there has been some issue : an unnoticeable electrical stutter or ... that made the update missing something.
I know you don't like to do that, but you already done it with the 2.10 and 2.11 update !
So, if I where in your position, I went for it.

Regards
Etienne
 

Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on October 19, 2022, 08:40:15 PM
I'm certainly leaning in that direction, Etienne. I'll likely update to 2.13 in the next day or so. Even if it works, I'll still have a bunch of registrations with the wrong default window. Perhaps the update will stop them from souring the rest.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Stijn on October 19, 2022, 08:44:01 PM
Lee,

Some of those registrations that you sent me a few weeks ago had a missing 'Edit Live Control' button in Murray's YRM application.
After I batch process those registrations they show the 'Edit Live Control' button again and the Slider B is selected.

Stijn


Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on October 19, 2022, 09:05:23 PM
It sounds like the correct slider is chosen. It's just turned off because the Live Control setting was not memorized. That makes sense. What doesn't make sense is why the registrations with the Live Control not memorized are contaminating the ones where it is memorized. This never happened prior to the 2.11 update.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on October 20, 2022, 06:30:56 PM
I updated to V2.13. No change. The Knob Assign window keeps appearing after a registration with it memorized is selected.

Even when that faulty registration is re-memorized with the Live Control > Slider Assign window selected, any registration with Knob Assign memorized, overrides the corrected registration. Subsequent registrations that have been correct all along get overridden with the Knob Assign window, unless you select the registration button twice 👿. It's as though the Genos is randomly ignoring registrations that have Live Control > Slider Assign memorized. Knob Assign is the default view and appears whenever it feels like it. This NEVER happened with V2.11 or earlier. Something is amiss.

I sent the Yamaha support guy yet another note, this time with fire in my message. He had replied 20 days earlier after receiving the video that Stijn so generously made, saying he'd "get back to me in a few days." No word so far! I basically told him that someone needs to light a fire under the backside of whoever is in charge and do something.

Korg is looking pretty darn good at this point!!!
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: vlbrgt on October 21, 2022, 09:54:21 AM
Ok
The problem wasn't in 2.10
It came with v2.11
v 2.13 didn't change anything (didn't solve your problem)

Solution : back to 2.10

Regards
Etienne
.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on October 21, 2022, 12:06:55 PM
Thanks, Etienne. Two thoughts:

1 - Can I revert to 2.10? I'm not sure how far back one can go with the Genos OS.

2 - I find it strange that I'm the only one reporting this issue. Aren't there any others?
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: vlbrgt on October 21, 2022, 01:08:26 PM
My last reply was a bit simple to say, but ...
It was the reaction of a programmer (me) that tries to solve a problem.

Quote
1 - Can I revert to 2.10? I'm not sure how far back one can go with the Genos OS.
It is not mentioned that it is not possible as with the v1.40 update.
So I suppose it's possible, otherwise Yamaha would have mentioned it.
To be sure you could ask it your dealer or at Yamaha directly.
Perhaps someone on this forum already did a reinstall of an older firmware ?

Quote
2 - I find it strange that I'm the only one reporting this issue. Aren't there any others?
That is indeed what intrigues me.
Perhaps there are not many people using the Live Controls while playing.
But even if, Stijn nor me where able to reproduce the problem on our Genos.

Question :
Explain from 0 how you make a registration.
What registration do you start with when making a new one ?
Could you send me this 'template' registration ?
Or do you make a new registration from the one that is loaded into the keyboard at that moment ?

Regards
Etienne



Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on October 21, 2022, 02:24:04 PM
Quote
Question :
Explain from 0 how you make a registration.
What registration do you start with when making a new one ?
Could you send me this 'template' registration ?
Or do you make a new registration from the one that is loaded into the keyboard at that moment ?
Thanks, Etienne. One possible error I’ve made all along is NOT using a reliable template. I know members have been adamant about using a template with known parameters. I can see why now. To create a new registration, I’ve usually opened a registration that had the similar styling I’m looking for. I would change the necessary parameters for the new song, and then save it under a new name. This method has worked perfectly through 5 arranger keyboards. In theory, there should be no difference between using a registration that I know works perfectly as a template and modifying it, or using a known master template. Perhaps this is not a reliable way to do things with the Genos. After all, it was a complete redesign. Doing it my way could be a big no-no.

I received a note from Yamaha support just an hour ago. The tech said the same thing as you. He can’t reproduce the problem on his Genos either. I assume that when he creates a registration with the Knob Assign or Slider Assign window as the default, things work fine. One registration doesn’t “contaminate” another registration the way it does on my Genos. If no one on this forum is having the problem and even the tech can’t reproduce the problem, that tells me there may be something corrupted in my Genos OS, despite the updates from Yamaha. An update is not a complete overwrite of the OS, correct? Rather it's an add-on or correction to certain lines of code. If I've done something along the line that has created the problem, there’s no guarantee an update would straighten out the issue, correct? Should I try doing a System reset? I have no idea what backups I need to do or what the effects are.

Perhaps with the Genos, you can’t just use "any" registration as a template for a new song because if there are any anomalies in this template, they get compounded when used as a template for a new registration. If that template is used again as a source registration, things just get worse. Perhaps this behavior is inherent in the Genos. My only alternative is to rebuild all my registration files – an ENORMOUS task.

Further thoughts?

Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: vlbrgt on October 21, 2022, 02:32:58 PM
There is still Stijn who is trying to 'batch' changing your registrations.
Perhaps waiting for his result before doing anything else.
If he can solve it, the better.

In the meantime could you send me just one or a few of those 'corrupted' registrations.

Regards
Etienne

Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: EileenL on October 21, 2022, 05:01:04 PM
When using old registrations from previous keyboards it will be essential to make sure all the boxes in memory are ticked to your liking and the 10 registrations are then resaved as a bank. Previous keyboards would not have had the assignable button to tick on them. So with luck may work or as you have found will not.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on October 21, 2022, 09:19:24 PM
I just received an email from Stijn. He played around with some registrations I had sent a week or so ago. He sees the same issues that I do but his Genos behaves normally otherwise. His conclusion is the same as Eileen and others. There is likely a few “bad” registrations that have been carried forward from my previous Tyros models. The Genos has simply detected these errors and has no way to correct them. I’m going to find the bad registrations, delete them, and rebuild them from a template. I’m confident my problem will be solved.

Thanks to all who contributed to this discussion and special thanks to Stijn for making videos, and attempting to diagnose and repair my registrations. I’ll send a quick note off to Yamaha Canada advising them to hold off any further trouble shooting. Stay well all...

- Lee
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on October 24, 2022, 03:52:49 PM
Well folks, the jury is in.

I just spent two hours revamping my "broken" registrations that show the Knob window instead of the Slider window. There is no way to fix this! The recent updates have caused this problem. I’m starting to hear from a few others who are seeing the same problem. It's not wide spread but I can tell you, it is a major nuisance!

I had 50 registrations in one folder. I spotted the few that were saved with Live Control turned off. I recreated them and saved them under a slightly different name, deleted the broken one, and then renamed the fixed one to its original name. It was going well until I opened another broken registration. I went back to the registration I had just fixed and it is now broken!! The only fix so far, is to push the registration button twice, then the Slider window appears. This is not a decent solution when you play in a band that blends one song into the next.

Even if this fix worked, it would take me weeks to rebuild all my registrations because some have a huge amount of parameter, effects, and EQ changes. I even tried fixing a broken registration making the Slider window appear, and then saving the registration under a different name. It worked once but the second time I opened it, the registration reverted to the Knob window. In short, those who were dumb enough (like me) to build a huge library of registrations with some where Live Control was unchecked, are basically screwed thanks to Yamaha and their moronic updates. Eileen may be on to something when she said that carrying forward registrations from lower models to the Genos, can introduce issues. And please – feel free to NOT chime in and tell me you’ve loaded registrations from your PSR3000, through all the Tyros keyboards, to the Genos without any issues and with no tweaks! That comment does me no good.

From the Yamaha website,
[V2.00 to V2.01]
Fixed a problem in which the Registration Memory function would not work properly in some cases.

To me this says Yamaha created a global command to make the Knob window the default one. If any registration has a minor error or omission, the Knob window is selected by default. If I had my way, I’d revert to the lowest possible update I can. Any thoughts on that? What is the lowest one that would work? The only improvement I’ve ever used since the original release is the ability to put the focus on a volume slider first before making the adjustment. The rest of the stuff I’ve never used and could care less about.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Bill on October 24, 2022, 04:14:21 PM
Hi Lee

Thanks for the Update, sorry to hear you are still having problems.

I know you are totally against using the Freeze function and it is not a Fix, However until you do get it fixed why not use it.

It will not affect your gigging and won't freeze anything you don't want it to. My photo  shows that I have 3 selections, but you can only select the one if you want.  At least it would help.

Bill



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on October 24, 2022, 05:34:49 PM
Thanks, Bill. You have a splendid idea there and it does work.

The downside is when I choose a registration where I need the organ sliders displayed, and I have a fair amount of those. I still need to manually toggle thorough the Slider group until the organ sliders appear. Some of my custom styles don't function correctly with the Freeze function turned on. I have no idea why, but its yet another anomaly of the famous "Genos."

I know my desire to have the correct window appear for every registration is a bit anal but with the types of bands I play in, I have enough to do preparing for the next song, then worrying if the Genos software is going to behave "this time." After all, the whole philosophy behind registrations is to automate all the nuisance work so we can concentrate on the task at hand - and that's to simply play the Genos. If we have to constantly correct for terrible OS designs, the stress level on the stage goes through the roof.

Imagine if an airline pilot had his or her electronics functioning correctly only 80% of the time and the remaining 20% was totally unpredictable, that aircraft would be grounded, if not scrapped!
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on October 29, 2022, 03:17:56 PM
Update (October 29, 2022)

I sent a sample folder of my registrations to a Yamaha support tech. Here's his reply.

Hi Lee,
Thanks for sharing this folder. Using it I was able to better understand the issue you are having. I was finally able to reproduce the issue using these registrations.
Then I tried to reproduce the issue using new registrations and was unable to...so my best guess is that some type of memory corruption got introduced in an update. As painful as it is, I suggest that you do a full factory reset. Make sure you back everything up and then update all the way to 2.01. It is possible that you will have to resave the registrations that are not behaving once you have done that.
Keep me in the loop and so sorry you are facing this issue.

It sounds like he wants me to revert to V2.01. This is very confusing to me. Also, I don't understand the implications of doing a Factory Reset. What data will I lose? Do I place the Genos in USB mode and copy all directories to my computer? Do I do a full backup and then restore it once the V2.01 is installed?

Does this make any sense to you folks???
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Stijn on October 29, 2022, 04:14:11 PM
Here is a link to the update V2.01.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qg45gcjmap11vgz/genos_v201.zip?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/qg45gcjmap11vgz/genos_v201.zip?dl=0)

Check p 105 of the Operator's Manual for Data Backup and Restore.

It's a good idea to use the USB mode and backup all the directories.

Stijn
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Michael Trigoboff on October 29, 2022, 08:04:51 PM
If Murray’s code is open source, you might be able to find a programmer for hire who was willing to write a utility app to change that setting in all of your registration files.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on October 29, 2022, 08:07:52 PM
Hi again, guys. I heard back from Yamaha support and the tech made an error. He said to definitely install V2.13.

Michael, if his idea of resetting works, I can go through the registrations pretty fast and resave them. I've done that in the past but it hasn't worked, Hence, why he thinks there is corrupted memory somewhere. Thanks... 👍.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on October 29, 2022, 09:07:11 PM
I backed up everything to a USB drive and my PC. It is a .bup file. I also put the Genos into USB mode and backed up all directories that appeared.
I'm about to do a factory reset. In that screen, what items should I select?

They are
System
User Effect
Favorite
MIDI
Registration
Live Control

Perhaps all of them? Thanks...

Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Stijn on October 30, 2022, 09:54:12 AM
I would go for all of them.

Stijn
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on October 30, 2022, 02:12:22 PM
I'll do that. Thanks Stijn.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on October 30, 2022, 02:48:30 PM
Okay, I went into the Utility screen > Factory Reset and checked all the boxes. I confirmed the Reset.

I would have thought that my registrations would have been deleted but they are all still there. So are my custom voices. Did the reset work? Why did the Yamaha tech say it would be "painful?"

Anyway, it didn't work. The registrations are still not working correctly. At first a registration will display the Slider window, and then after selecting one that has the Knob window, the previous one "might" show the slider window but when choosing a third registration that showed the Slider window originally, it now shows the Knob window. Do I have to reload update V2.13?

Somehow, I don't think my Genos has been reset.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Stijn on October 30, 2022, 03:33:36 PM
You can try this method:

For the reset (you lose all user data, hence a backup is useful): keep a Cis-Dur chord pressed (Cis, F and Gis) when switching on, in the 2nd octave from the left.

When the word "Test" appears on the Display, you can release.

Now press 2x the [Tempo -] button (Factory Set) and then 2x the [Start / Stop] button.

Now press the [Tempo +] button (Test Exit) 1x and then [Start / Stop] again.
Wait until the Genos has completely booted.

Stijn
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on October 30, 2022, 03:36:22 PM
Thanks, Stijn. I'm not sure what "Cis-Dur chord pressed (Cis, F and Gis)" means. Would you explain please?
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Stijn on October 30, 2022, 03:53:58 PM
It's a C sharp major

C# F  G#






[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on October 30, 2022, 03:54:50 PM
Okay, thanks Stijn :).
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on October 31, 2022, 03:41:56 PM
Stijn,

Is there a difference between your method and the one where you hold down the right most key and power on?

It seems the Factory Reset utility does nothing useful. I read that the Registrations will remain, which is useless to me.

Yamaha's Factory Reset nomenclature is a joke. To me, that means it will reset my ENTIRE Genos to how it was packaged at the factory. I'm quite sure the Genos didn't ship all over the world with my registrations and custom voices 🙄. Why do they call it a Factory Reset when it doesn't even come close to doing so??
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: EileenL on October 31, 2022, 11:59:10 PM
Factory re-set dose exactly that. It sets everything back to when you take it out of the box.  As Genos does not come with registrations then it will have no effect on any you have saved.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: ton37 on November 01, 2022, 09:55:55 AM
Factory re-set dose exactly that. It sets everything back to when you take it out of the box .....
So, it does not ....  ;)
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Jeff Hollande on November 01, 2022, 10:50:38 AM
So, it does not ....  ;)

Hey Ton :

Do you have an alternative ?

Plse advise. Thanks, JH
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: ton37 on November 01, 2022, 11:32:22 AM
I (as a consumer) shouldn't have to come up with a workaround. yamaha should make it easier for the buyer in this regard. There are plenty of examples (eg through menus) how this can be done much better. Now you have to manually delete some data. @Lee already pointed out that this function does not work as it promises.!
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: EileenL on November 01, 2022, 12:57:17 PM
Holding down the right most key is known as a soft reset and dose not set everything back. Usually used if you have had a glitch by trying to load something the keyboard does not like.
  If you have loaded in old registrations that were not set as you wanted them the only way to go is set the memory ticks up as you want them and resave the offending banks. There is no other way to do this. A factory re-set will NOT do this.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on November 01, 2022, 01:02:22 PM
Once again, we are faced with a Yamaha OS design that colors outside the lines of conventional PC and Mac operating systems (OS). I understand the Genos OS is Linux. I can understand if they have no choice but to use this system. I'd wager the number of PC and Mac users compared to Linux users is staggering. Our computer schemata is rooted in PC or Mac systems, not Linux.

By definition a Factory Reset (also referred to as a system restore) returns your computer to the same state it was in when it rolled off the assembly line. It removes files and programs you created and installed, deletes drivers, and returns settings to their defaults. Note the phrase, "rolled off the assembly line." This does not happen with a Genos Factory Reset. Say what you want but this is a misleading label in the Genos OS. I don't care if it's run by Linux, Windows, or Mac. It doesn't work according to any definition of a Factory Reset!!

I've contacted Yamaha support and a Factory Reset was their recommendation, as I wrote earlier. Enough defending Yamaha based on a stellar previous history. Plain and simple, my Genos is broken and warranty be damned - they need to walk me through the steps to fix this. If Eileen is correct about a possible bug created by bringing registrations forward from 4 previous models, then I need a Factory Reset that works, not some ridiculous temporary fix that does nothing.

The Yamaha tech said the memory core is likely corrupted. Well how do I fix it??!! His solution was a Factory Reset. It didn't work. What's next? I have asked him and am waiting for an answer.

I don't blame Yamaha one bit for this failure, other than something they did with one of their updates. They made the Knob window the default, for some dumb reason! There's no doubt that carrying forward 250 registrations that were created on a PSR3000, and then modified through 4 more keyboards, may be a problem down the line. There's no way Yamaha can predict that. Fine. What they MUST do is provide a viable solution!! I'm still waiting.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on November 01, 2022, 01:05:21 PM
Quote
A factory re-set will NOT do this.
Agreed. And yet, that's what Yamaha support told me to do. That doesn't give me much confidence with Yamaha support if that's the best they can do. Stijn gave a totally different solution to try. I haven't taken him up on it yet, but I may soon. I'm giving Yamaha support one more chance to fix this.

Edit
Thanks for clarifying this, Eileen. You saved me from wasting another 10 minutes of my life on yet another useless solution.

Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: pjd on November 01, 2022, 07:25:23 PM
Hi Lee --

Stijn has described a way of resetting memory using the internal Genos self-test program. For folks who are following the thread, please realize that using the internal self-test program can be risky.

I have sent some PM that may be helpful -- pj
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Michael Trigoboff on November 01, 2022, 07:26:57 PM
Every company that develops computer applications has this problem: people who are smart and competent enough to do great technical support are smart and competent enough to get better, higher, paying jobs writing code or designing hardware. No one is paying tech support staff six-figure incomes.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on November 01, 2022, 09:38:42 PM
Quote
No one is paying tech support staff six-figure incomes.
And it shows, Michael! I'm still waiting on Yamaha support to advise me further.

PJD, thanks for the note 👍.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on November 18, 2022, 06:24:46 PM
I heard back from support. The rep I've been working with named Jac, asked me to run the hardware diagnostic program that begins by holding the C#2, F2, and G#2 notes+Power On. This was so he could decide if my Genos needed to be brought in for repair. He pointed me to Casper's YouTube video, which really surprised me. Why would a Yamaha service rep point me to a third party video? Instead, I would have expected some sort of official documentation from Yamaha. Casper's video has no dialog, just background music. At times, I wasn't sure if his finger was hovering on the START/STOP button or pushing it. After a while I was able to surmise that it was hovering. It's best if he had moved his finger when needed. Having said that, thanks for the great video, Casper!

There are about 60 steps to check. Some I couldn't do because the test required (for example) that the MIDI cables were connected to an external piece of hardware. At that point, the test would freeze and there was no way to unfreeze it so I could move on to the next step. Therefore, I had to start all over again 😣!! This happened about 10 times, so I really couldn't do a complete test as requested. The rep was of no use either because I immediately emailed him about the test freezing and that there should be some key sequence to override the freezing. I've heard nothing back. I must say the communication over this issue has been disappointing. It's as though if there's no money for Yamaha in helping me, I get put on the back burner, despite the thousands of dollars I've spent over the years.

So, I'm no further ahead. I sent him back a note saying that for the completed steps, there are no issues. Then again, from strictly a science point of view, the entire test is useless because it could not be completed.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: EileenL on November 19, 2022, 03:33:43 PM
Hello Lee,
  I have just taken two of my registrations that were set to knob assign and altered then to Slider. I would be interested to see if they work correctly for you.

https://app.box.com/s/46sn6eecojx1ufoxnt858v08tq8j0s6k
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on November 19, 2022, 07:53:08 PM
Many thanks, Eileen! My Genos is packed but as soon as I open it again, I'll give those a try and report back.
You're the best. Mom always spoke highly of you 🤣.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on November 21, 2022, 03:53:08 PM
Hi Eileen,

I loaded your two registrations but I get the same issue. Yours work fine until I select one of my own that shows the knob window first. When I go back to yours, the knob window is shown first. I'm living with the fact I must press the Reg button twice to get the Slider window first (sometimes). Yamaha has no fix. Thanks for trying, Eileen!

WARNING!
To anyone who uses the hardware check that Casper's video describes. Make sure you have everything backed up. I lost all my registrations, user voices, user styles, and some other things. All system settings are rest to factory specs. Apparently the hardware check purges the software to factory defaults. It's as though I just opened the box after bringing my new Genos home. There's nothing there!!!
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: DerekA on November 21, 2022, 04:08:13 PM
WARNING!
To anyone who uses the hardware check that Casper's video describes. Make sure you have everything backed up. I lost all my registrations, user voices, user styles, and some other things. All system settings are rest to factory specs. Apparently the hardware check purges the software to factory defaults. It's as though I just opened the box after bringing my new Genos home. There's nothing there!!!

Oh well, you got your Factory Reset in the end then :)
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on November 21, 2022, 04:31:35 PM
True Derek but now I'm faced with ANOTHER problem.

I restored all my Genos files from my backed up files but have come to realize that none of my Right 1 reverb settings have been restored. They are all set to Real Medium Hall +. It's as though all my Right 1 reverb settings have been wiped clean!!

Can anyone tell me WTH is going on with my Genos? I'm really starting to think I need to cancel all my gigs and rebuild everything from scratch. Trouble is, I don't know if I'll live that long. Geez.............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: DerekA on November 21, 2022, 04:59:03 PM
I restored all my Genos files from my backed up files but have come to realize that none of my Right 1 reverb settings have been restored. They are all set to Real Medium Hall +. It's as though all my Right 1 reverb settings have been wiped clean!!

Not totally sure what you mean there - the master Reverb type is stored with the Style group, it can't differ by part - only an insertion effect type can be associated with a specific part.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on November 21, 2022, 05:53:15 PM
That's probably my answer, thanks Derek. I'll check the Master Reverb. It's probably Yamaha's default, which was loaded after the hardware trouble shooting exercise. Never thought of that 🙃.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: EileenL on November 21, 2022, 10:41:05 PM
Hi Lee
 It is just a thought but when you updated to version two did you do as we were all told and that was to make a note of any settings we have saved in the Backup Restore files as it was not possible to load them in with version two. You had to redo them and then save again. This may be why you have lost some of your settings.

Thanks for trying the registration banks. You will need to resave all your banks because if you don't your problem will keep happening. It dose the same on my keyboard if I load a bank that I have not altered. Fortunately, it only takes a couple of minuets to resave the bank buttons and then resave the whole bank.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on November 22, 2022, 01:57:41 AM
Good ideas, as usual Eileen.

I agree with you on the resaving idea. I need to adjust ALL registrations and save them all over again. Only then will they behave as expected, hopefully. I honestly think whatever Yamaha did to the operating system after 2.0, they really made it tough for us who didn't save our registrations correctly. I never had an issue like this with any of my prior keyboards. I'm really disappointed in Yamaha and how they've thrown us this curve ball. What's equally disturbing is how the operating system behaves during updates. You loose all your core setups. This never happens with conventional computer operating systems.

Yamaha needs to re-visit how their operating systems are configured so that nightmares like this don't happen!!
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: EileenL on November 22, 2022, 01:45:33 PM
Hello Lee,
I have never had an update change anything on my keyboard. All my effects I use are saved in my registrations anyway so are always there to recall. Version two was different because the whole system was updated and extra memory added but we were told in advance what we needed to do to avoid any problems afterwards.
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on November 22, 2022, 02:33:50 PM
I think you hit the nail on the head long ago, Eileen. Having brought all these registrations through several PSR and Tyros keyboards, there's been ample opportunity for corruption. Traditionally, I've always loaded earlier registrations on a new keyboard and just tweaked them with the new voices. For the most part, it has worked but a few things have gone wrong, causing wide-spread unwanted results like I'm seeing now.

After Christmas, I have a lull. I'm going to log all my registration details and rebuild them from scratch. That will solve my problem. Meanwhile, thanks for all your help along the way 😀! That goes for everyone too!
Title: Re: Style Mixer Slider window revisited
Post by: Lee Batchelor on November 22, 2022, 03:38:03 PM
One further thought...

If I'm about to embark on recreating all my registrations, would anyone be willing to share their current template? I can create my own but I'd like to see what others are doing so that I don't overlook something. This is no small project, so I want to get it right the first time. Many thanks!