PSR Tutorial Forum
Genos (12 Boards) => Genos - General => Topic started by: Mike2 on August 16, 2022, 08:12:45 PM
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Will Yamaha keep the same type of speakers that the Genos 1 has? Very cheap bass module and cable pin hook up. As far as the sound quality, I don't think anything will be improved, trying to keep the overall price down. Just wish a little more lows for the bass, and a more realistic sounds from the satellite. Not much volume to spare right now. At my age my gig days are over, any improvement in speakers would be a nice addition.
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I think the general consensus about the Genos speakers are that they're "okay for home use" - sort of. It you want better sound, you invest in upgraded speakers. For Yamaha to design a set for the Genos that would be real crowd pleasers, it's just not feasible when there are plenty of speakers already on the market that can do a far better job at an equal or better price point.
I'd shop around for decent speakers. They may cost slightly more but they'd be worth it. The Genos sounds great over a $150,000 sound system. I know - I've been there 😀. There's certainly nothing wrong with their sound processors.
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Hi Mike,
Yamaha will probably never offer speakers with Studio quality as an "original" speaker set for a Genos successor, but (as before) a speaker set that offers a sufficiently good sound for "home use" but is still not too expensive. For higher demands I recommend high-quality Studio monitor speakers. For example, I use the (unfortunately no longer manufactured) Yamaha MSP5 Studio active monitor speakers, if necessary in combination with the active subwoofer Yamaha HS8S.
(https://www.yamahamusiclondon.com/sites/ymlLive/productimages/big/CMSP5STUDIOUK.jpg) (https://www.recordcase.de/media/image/c2/4e/28/Yamaha-HS8S-1_600x600.jpg)
Best regards,
Chris
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Yes, I agree with studio monitors, and all of the other speaker options. I have been down that road with all the other major speakers, Pa speakers and so forth. Bose L1, Bose S1 pro, Yamaha HS8 speakers, but like I said, my gig days are over. These I mentioned sound great, but for me and many others, at home playing, you don't need these. Just a little better than what Yamaha has to offer now. I have tried combinations of Bose home, companion 5 speakers, and these now very well affordable. With a little tweaking at this price, they make the Yamaha Genos speakers look cheap...Just my opinion
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I would still say get a pair of Yamaha DXR 8's with integrated amps or the latest out 6 year guarantees as well.
I use Focal Alpha 50's for recording and these also knocks the opposition for six.
These are great with the Genos and also can be used in a small hall if desired. They have lots of power and down low sound quality
These are about £1000 or a little cheaper but when buying a couple of keyboards in the future they will pay for themselves as the Yamaha speakers with boom box cost £300 and included battery wires and sound like a transister radio to me compared with a quality set
If people like them, it is their choice and maybe adequate for them.
Monitors are best for recording that produce a flat sound.
If you pay nearly £5000 for a Genos , it makes sense to get a decent set of speakers.
At the end of the day it is, you get what you pay for.
All the best
John :)
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Bi-amped studio monitor speakers always sound better than traditional PA speakers. At least my hearing thinks so.
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Hi
I’ve just purchased a set of HS7 active speakers positioned on the carpeted floor after many other height position tests they are also on isolation pads that angle the speaker upward the sound is fantastic with a great balance of bass and high / mid. This setup is a world apart from the standard Genos speakers there’s so much detail and control.
Robert
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The Genos speakers are OK for me, but I really wish they will get rid of the 8 pin contact!!
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BUY a BOSE-L1 PRO-------$1200----beginning & end of discussion---you get the BEST sound no matter where you play--looks good--sounds amazing- --portable---exceptional quality -perfect reproduction sounds of all the instruments---last many years !! I own a Genos---played many gigs with Bose systems--now just play at home--too old to play out anymore, but do play at my house for occasional groups---music room to living room to where ever---the BOSE is top shelf !!---Lets hear it from other Bose users ??!! -John from N.C. 8)
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I think John meant to specify "L1 Pro 8." If he did, he's right. I gig with two of them and the sound is scary good. So is the price ☹.
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I have Bose L1 compac and Bose S1 Pro for gigs. Fantastic speakers. But at home I use the Genos speaker set.
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I don't go gigging I am currently looking at the Focal Alpha 65 EVO Speakers with stands Around £540 for a pair
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I recently bought a pair of Kali LP6 2nd Wave (mainly for guitar use, but I connected my Genos on them too :) ) and I rediscovered my Genos !
The details and definition of those speakers are incredible for the price. (211€ each on Thomann).
Previously, I only used my Beyerdynamics DT770 Pro 80ohm headphone and it was already pretty nice, but with the Kalis I really enjoy my instrument even more !
So, yes, the Genos MS-GNS01 speakers are crap (I tested them when I bought my Genos, but didn't like the sound ...) and even a modest pair of FRFR Speakers will make justice to the Genos sounds !
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I don't go gigging I am currently looking at the Focal Alpha 65 EVO Speakers with stands Around £540 for a pair
Focal are also quality.
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Hello all,
I also just bought a pair of Kali LP6 2nd wave for my sx600, and wow, do they sound good!
But I also happen to have a subwoofer that now I find I can't connect to my keyboard (it's EITHER the external loudspeakers OR the subwoofer, but I can't have BOTH), or maybe there's a way to do it that someone on this forum knows of.
Thanks in advance for any help with connecting both.
PS: I don't have a Genos (yet), sorry...
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Hi Mike,
Yamaha will probably never offer speakers with Studio quality as an "original" speaker set for a Genos successor, but (as before) a speaker set that offers a sufficiently good sound for "home use" but is still not too expensive. For higher demands I recommend high-quality Studio monitor speakers. For example, I use the (unfortunately no longer manufactured) Yamaha MSP5 Studio active monitor speakers, if necessary in combination with the active subwoofer Yamaha HS8S.
(https://www.yamahamusiclondon.com/sites/ymlLive/productimages/big/CMSP5STUDIOUK.jpg) (https://www.recordcase.de/media/image/c2/4e/28/Yamaha-HS8S-1_600x600.jpg)
Best regards,
Chris
Hi Chris I have a similar set up but with Yamaha HS5 speakers with HS8s subwoofer. I beilieve those are available tp replace MSp5's ?
cheers Terry
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I also use the MSP5's and find them great for my music room.
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Hi Chris I have a similar set up but with Yamaha HS5 speakers with HS8s subwoofer. I beilieve those are available tp replace MSp5's ?
cheers Terry
Hi Terry,
The "MSP5 Studio" speakers were initially shortlisted for me because they have a protective grille on the front. This is not the case with the Yamaha HS5/7/8 and probably most other studio monitor speakers. Before I bought it, I tested all the studio monitors in a large music store near me for several hours. To my ears, the MSP5 had the best sound. For example, I like the crisp, yet unobtrusive high frequencies of the MSP5 better than the HS5/7/8 models. The latter are of course also good speakers, but I don't think the HS5 should be seen as the successor to the MSP5.
Yamaha introduced the (slightly smaller) MSP3A not too long ago, but the MSP5 Studio seems to be very hard to come by these days.
Best regards,
Chris
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I also use the MSP5's and find them great for my music room.
Hi Eileen,
I'm glad you like the MSP5 too. :)
Best regards,
Chris
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It is with the Yamaha DXR 8's 8)
Quality sound and they are built like a tank and 6 years warranty.
100% for the Genos 8). Great in my room on a low setting which gives quality.
For the gig man a pair of those with a sub would be great for a party and small gigs. 8)
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Tomorrow I am auditioning Focal 65evo, Adam TV8 and Genelec's
Below are some of the monitors I will be listening to my budget is around £600
FOCAL ALPHA 65 EVO ACTIVE STUDIO MONITOR BUNDLE WITH SPEAKER STANDS AND CABLES £528
ADAM AUDIO T8V MONITOR BUNDLE WITH UNIVERSAL ACOUSTIC FOAM AND CABLES £427
ADAM A7X MONITOR BUNDLE WITH VIBRO-PAD DESKTOP SPEAKER STANDS AND CABLES £798
GENELEC 8030 STUDIO MONITOR BUNDLE WITH STANDS £957
GENELEC GE8020DPM STUDIO MONITOR BUNDLE WITH SPEAKER STANDS £697
GENELEC 8010 ACTIVE STUDIO MONITOR BUNDLE WITH STANDS £535
It is such a mine field and you can only tell what your ears hear that sounds right for yourself
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I would expect there are no bad choices among that lot, and differences will be small. Hope you find something you love.
I’m betting you will be tempted to go well over budget for the top Genelecs. 🤒
Mike
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It is with the Yamaha DXR 8's 8)
Quality sound and they are built like a tank and 6 years warranty.
100% for the Genos 8). Great in my room on a low setting which gives quality.
For the gig man a pair of those with a sub would be great for a party and small gigs. 8)
Hi John,
Yes, the Yamaha DXR 8 are good speakers and are definitely also well suited for the Genos. But please keep in mind that these are basically PA speakers. In my opinion, (nearfield) studio monitor speakers are better suited to creating well balanced mixes that sound "good" on different speaker systems.
Best regards,
Chris
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Hi chris
i use the yamaha DXR's for general listening of playing and Focal Alpha 50s's for mixing.
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FOCAL ALPHA 65 EVO ACTIVE STUDIO MONITOR BUNDLE WITH SPEAKER STANDS AND CABLES £528
ADAM AUDIO T8V MONITOR BUNDLE WITH UNIVERSAL ACOUSTIC FOAM AND CABLES £427
ADAM A7X MONITOR BUNDLE WITH VIBRO-PAD DESKTOP SPEAKER STANDS AND CABLES £798
GENELEC 8030 STUDIO MONITOR BUNDLE WITH STANDS £957
GENELEC GE8020DPM STUDIO MONITOR BUNDLE WITH SPEAKER STANDS £697
GENELEC 8010 ACTIVE STUDIO MONITOR BUNDLE WITH STANDS £535
And that is exactly why Yamaha designed those low quality speakers for the Genos. There are so many far better alternatives at comparative prices sometimes. Yamaha has better things to do than wasting time and resources improving the Genos speakers...like releasing Genos 2 🤣!
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I just hooked-up my new SM200 subwoofer. Sounds great here in my trailer. No. Seriously!
Thanks,
Mike (Mhack)
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Well I just got home from the audition which included
FOCAL ALPHA 65 EVO ACTIVE STUDIO MONITOR BUNDLE WITH SPEAKER STANDS AND CABLES £528
ADAM AUDIO T8V MONITOR BUNDLE WITH UNIVERSAL ACOUSTIC FOAM AND CABLES £427
GENELEC 8030 STUDIO MONITOR BUNDLE WITH STANDS £957
GENELEC GE8020DPM STUDIO MONITOR BUNDLE WITH SPEAKER STANDS £697
I had about 2 hours of listening, I used music that I had already recorded directly from the Tyros5 we blue toothed my phone and I accessed my songs from my Box storage account so that worked well. At the end of the audition i chose GENELEC GE8020DPM Studio Monitor with Stands & Cables £730 Mikf was right I did go over budget but did not go for the 8030 that would have been just under £1000
I would expect there are no bad choices among that lot, and differences will be small. Hope you find something you love.
I’m betting you will be tempted to go well over budget for the top Genelecs. 🤒
Mike
Just need to set them up now and try them out :)
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Genelec is a very good brand! Congrats Del!
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;) :D ;D
Mike
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When I bought my Yamaha HS-8 speakers, I also listened to a pair of Genelec speakers. They were amazing but way out of my price range.
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Well I sat at the tyros 5 with the Genelecs on their stands, they can certainly pack a punch without distortion and the clarity is superb
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Agreed, Del. The Genelecs blow the HS8s out of the water but there's that price thing - roughly double in Canada, I believe.
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Hi Lee the HS8 paired are £575 the Genelec 8020 paired are £700 uk prices the 8030 paired are around £1000 I was tempted to get the 8030
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Hi Lee the HS8 paired are £575 the Genelec 8020 paired are £700 uk prices the 8030 paired are around £1000 I was tempted to get the 8030
Good stuff, Del. I'd be tempted to go for the Genelecs.
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I was close to buing them a couple of years ago, but the price tag scared me off! Very pricy here in Norway, but wounderul sound! And build quality is fantastic.
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Kali's are also great for studio's
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Regarding Genos 2 and the optional GNS-MS01 speakers.
Do the satellite speakers interfere if you have a second keyboard above the Genos 2 in a multi-tier keyboard setup? Or, are the speakers too in the way? If in the way what options and solutions are there for moving them further apart to accommodate a second keyboard above?
Thanks and apologies for reviving an older thread. Many posts in this thread date before Genos 2 was released so this thread must have been renamed to Genos 2 recently.
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I bought a pair of Neumann KH 120 II (https://www.neumann.com/en-en/products/monitors/kh-120-ii/)s for my Genos2 rig. Beautiful, clear, detailed sound.
Sweetwater had a special deal: buy two, and they threw in the $300 Neumann MA 1 Microphone (https://www.neumann.com/en-en/products/monitor-accessories/ma-1/) for free (you use this microphone with Neumann’s MA 1 software to tune the speakers to produce a flat response in your room).
I was motivated to try these monitors thanks to this amazing review (https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/neumann-kh120-ii) in my favorite music production magazine, Sound On Sound (https://www.soundonsound.com/).
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@mamero
GNS-MS01 (https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/accessories/gns-ms01/specs.html) satellite speakers are only 18cm (7") tall and so they should easily fit between two keyboards (top keyboard is usually slightly tilted toward front).
But there are at least two reasons why I wouldn't use these speakers in case of two keyboard configuration:
1. Satellites are positioned deep in back and if you put 2nd keyboard on top, then it will block mid-high frequency path -and that's what satellites are meant for. I'm not nitpicking, but I expect brightness loss (dull sound) and L/R channel separation will also suffer.
2. If two or more instruments are (planned to be) used, then they're usually connected on mixer (or audio interface), but in this case GNS-MS01 speakers have practically no use.
3. Genos deserves better speakers than GNS-MS01.
Bogdan
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@Michael
I have seen the review of that speaker at Audio Science Review (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neumann-kh120-ii-monitor-review.46362/) (which I trust 100%) and in my opinion this speaker is not only among the best 5.25" studio monitors: it is the best we can get!
But it has it's price (1650€/pair)... which an average keyboard owner can hardly justify. And so I think that there are comparable solutions (two monitors + subwoofer) for a half of that price.
Yeah, I'm among those who can't afford it -still, compliments for your decission :)
Bogdan
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What do you think would sound "better"? A matched pair of HS5 without a sub or the Genos 2 speakers which includes the sub? This is for light home listening. I'm mostly listening through headphones 70-80%. Just need something near-field with decent sound at moderate volume levels for the other 20-30% that's not WAY over the top financially. A pair of HS5 is more or less in the same price ballpark as the Genos 2 speaker system. I'm even considering a second hand 3-way compact stereo system which you can find pretty cheap these days (kenwood, pioneer etc). Thanks.
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Mods: can we move this thread to the Genos 2 forum please.
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hi mamero,
I will try to be short... and keep in mind that this is just my personal opinion :)
GNS-MS01 (https://www.thomann.de/intl/yamaha_gnsms01.htm) =327€
Satellite: 20W (tweeter =0.8", midrange =3"
Subwoofer: 40W, 6.5"
Positives:
-looks nice on keyboard
-relative simple cable management
Negatives:
-can only be used on Genos and if you decide so, you can only sell it to some Genos owner
- frequency range starts at 40Hz (-10db), which in reality means about 50Hz actually
Presonus Eris Sub 8 (https://www.thomann.de/intl/presonus_eris_sub_8bt.htm) =198€ + Eris 3.5 (https://www.thomann.de/intl/presonus_eris_3.5_2nd_gen.htm) =92€, Total=290€
Satellite: 25W (tweeter=1", midrange=3.5"
Subwoofer: 50W, 8"
Positives:
-cheaper than GNS-MS01 and can be used with any keyboard
-frequency range starts at 30Hz (on paper), which is closer to 40Hz in reality (but still has better bass than GNS-MS01)
Negatives:
-doesn't have Yamaha logo ;)
I gave Presonus just for example, to show, that there are better (sounding) solutions for less money. To get an impression, watch this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd3S9J_VfXg) video.
Yamaha HS 5 (https://www.thomann.de/intl/yamaha_hs_5.htm) is 360€/pair and so quite expensive (one can get similar 5" monitors for less money) -and you should keep in mind that for 5" monitors, a separate subwoofer is in most cases also needed -I'm talking from my experience.
In short, if you don't wish to spend too much money, then Presonus (or similar) is a good starting point.
I hope that was of some help,
Bogdan
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@Michael
I have seen the review of that speaker at Audio Science Review (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neumann-kh120-ii-monitor-review.46362/) (which I trust 100%) and in my opinion this speaker is not only among the best 5.25" studio monitors: it is the best we can get!
But it has it's price (1650€/pair)... which an average keyboard owner can hardly justify. And so I think that there are comparable solutions (two monitors + subwoofer) for a half of that price.
Yeah, I'm among those who can't afford it -still, compliments for your decission :)
Bogdan
Thanks for the link to that review. It’s always nice to have my judgment confirmed.
My wife and I are both in our 70s and are fortunate (well, sort of) that our years are very likely to run out before our money. So I am now in a position to buy things that would have been unthinkable in earlier years.
Which reminds me of this quote that amuses me even though I don’t actually live that way:
“LIfe's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting “Holy s***, what a ride!” -- Hunter S Thompson
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hi Michael,
I agree with your attitude.. it's all about enjoying the things we can afford :)
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Yes Michael, you earned it, now enjoy it.
A financial advisor told me this story about an elderly client who was very wealthy that boasted to him that he never wasted money … drove an 8 year old Ford, refused to pay for first class travel. And the financial advisor said, you know what you’re doing… you’re sitting in the back of the plane so your family can sit in the front when you are gone, you are driving an 8 year old Ford so your son can buy a Ferrari when you are gone….. The client went silent, and within a week called to say he had just bought a new Merc, and booked a round the world trip for him and his wife, first class all the way.
There is a wide spread of financial capabilities and everyone is an individual, but there is no question that the ‘luxury’ spending money more and more resides in older generations. That is why these questions about ‘who will buy these arrangers when we are gone’ which pop up every so often are so silly. The market amongst older people is growing and very, very lucrative.
I just got back a couple of days ago from a cruise around South America, top end, superb service, cabin bigger than my first house….. and I could have counted guests under 60 on one hand. And under 70 on two!
Power to the oldies ;D ;D
Mike
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What about the consumer electronics offerings from Yamaha if you are just playing at home? It's likely there is some crossover in components and technology between the consumer and pro audio divisions. Yamaha's consumer side seems to be less expensive than the pro audio side (except for the really hi end stuff). Thoughts? Anything workable from that angle?
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/index.html
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Does the Genos 2 transmit audio over Bluetooth?
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Does the Genos 2 transmit audio over Bluetooth?
I think not. Just receives
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@mamero
The Yamaha link you gave is meant for home theater and hi-fi systems which is not really suitable for musicians... and there's no crossover (similarity) between these two and musicians audio equipment. Of course you can attach keyboard on some home theater system, but in most cases that's not practical.
Yamaha products that a keyboard owner might be interested on are mainly studio monitors (https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/speakers/index.html), PA systems (https://usa.yamaha.com/products/proaudio/pa_systems/index.html) and maybe some small mixer (https://usa.yamaha.com/products/proaudio/live_streaming_gaming/ag/index.html) (i.e. if you wish to attach additional instrument).
Bogdan
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Bogdan said, "Yamaha products that a keyboard owner might be interested on are mainly studio monitors, PA systems, and maybe some small mixer (i.e. if you wish to attach additional instrument)."
I agree. That sums up the entire thread.
I might add that choosing the correct speakers depends entirely on what you use your Genos for. I'm a stage player and need decent speakers for small to medium crowds. Hence, I spent $4,000 on two Bose Pro 8 speakers.
If you're a home player, you have a HUGE selection from which to choose. Try out various speakers and be sure to audition them in your home. Don't rely on an in-store demo. If the store doesn't have a way for you to demo them in your home and then return them, go to another store.
Most of what you hear from any speaker is room response. After the speaker produces a sound, that sound becomes the property of the room. If the room is not too reflective, you can get by with a wide range of speaker choices. A subwoofer is probably a wise addition. The Genos line has excellent bass response, so not including a sub is a waste.
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I recently bought a pair of Kali LP6 2nd Wave (mainly for guitar use, but I connected my Genos on them too :) ) and I rediscovered my Genos !
I'm also using Kali studio monitors, but with the Kali dual 6" subwoofer. You're right, it sounds great!
Craig
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FWiiW: Everyone has their own preferences, of course. I only play at home in my modest home studio. I was able to get a set of Yamaha HS7 on the 2nd hand market. I recently added a 2nd hand set of HS5 (they initially had a different destination) and thought I'd try it in my setup to see how that sounds. The HS7 set in front of me and the HS5 set behind me. I placed a Yamaha MG-XU mixer (also 2nd hand) between the keyboard and the monitors. I can pan them via the mixer, left and right as well as front and back. This allows the volume to be significantly reduced and I have never heard so many nuances! I hear every instrument, percussion, voice clearly and distinctly. I have no need for a subwoofer, the HS7 can handle that just fine. Due to the second hand purchase, I am well below 65% of the retail value. I'm very happy with this setup and I think I'll leave this setup as it is. ;)
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hi Ton,
That's an interesting speaker config that you have -I think such solution depends on available space and keyboard placement in the room.
And I agree: for home use, if we wish to exclude a subwoofer, then monitors should have at least 6.5" woofer size. But decision is usually made according to available space around the keyboard and so many (incl. myself) prefer smaller 5" monitors and subwoofer nearby/under the keyboard.
Bogdan
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Brilliant, Ton. I've never heard of a Genos being used in a semi-surround sound configuration. You may not need a sub - that's correct. Once you have one, you'll wonder why everyone doesn't have one. There are low frequencies that the HS7 won't produce very well that are there nonetheless.
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Thnx Guys for your replies. I forgot to mention that I have a subwoofer (not connected!), but as it is my personal taste: I don't like the deep basses, too dominant. ;)
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...I don't like the deep basses, too dominant. ;)
I totally understand that! And that's why I always say that subwoofer must be used very "carefully": if we can hear the subwoofer, then the settings that we are using are wrong. Subwoofer must be invisible in music -it should only support main speakers. To achieve that, the loudness and crossover frequency must be set in balance with main speakers.
Bogdan
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I currently have a Tyros5 with a Genos2 on order.
I use a Harmon Kadron soundbar with subwoofer,
together 300W with 6 small speakers in the soundbar.
It sounds fine with the Tyros5, except perhaps, weak
stereo separation. Any tips on how to use this
effectively with Genos2? Choice of EQ type on Genos2, compressor
type? Your answers are very appreciated.
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Hello,
I have two KRK Rokit RP5 G4 boxes in my rehearsal room at the PC workstation. I also often play the Genos2.
The small speakers always surprise me with how powerful they are and how well they work in the lower frequencies - without a subwoofer.
Single price 160€
They also have a DSP with which you can adjust the frequencies very specifically.
Best regards
Holger
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hi Holger,
I also have the same KRK speakers and I agree that they're very good (comprehensive review (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRocD8-tj8k) confirms that).
About lower frequencies... well, we need to define what lower frequencies are. Rokit 5 specification says it starts at 43Hz, which is definitely not true -unless if 43Hz -10dB is meant (which KRK doesn't specify). Standard frequency response is usually given at -3dB fall-off and in this case Rokit 5 starts at slightly above 50Hz.
This is not bad for 5" speaker! -but is also not something exceptional. In short, it's kinda weak in lowest octave and so a bass guitar (for example) sounds quite dry on lower notes. That's not only true for KRK -it's just the limitation of 5" woofer.
My opinion: if budget and space in the room allows, then I highly recommend a subwoofer -it does make a difference.
Bogdan
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Bogdan is absolutely correct.
I speaker maker can claim to produce a speaker capable of 45 Hz reproduction. The question is, "How loud does that 45 Hz play?" Most speakers are designed to reproduce a flat response. There's no such thing as a perfectly straight line frequency response but they can come close. There will always be a few dB difference up or down.
When a speaker produces frequencies in the bass region where the graph begins to sharply drop by 3dB (-3db actually, or what's known as the F3 cutoff point), that is considered the lowest frequency the speaker can effectively reproduce. Manufacturers often publish a -10dB frequency response. I suspect they're trying to impress potential buyers as to how low the speaker can go. The problem is it can't really go that low in terms of our hearing. A -10dB drop is a lot! To the human ear, a -10dB drop (the speaker's F10 cutoff point this time) represents one half perceived volume. It works the other way too. If you use a trumpet voice on the Genos for a solo and increase its volume by 10dB, the trumpet will sound twice as loud.
So, don't be impressed with the F10 cutoff point. Only look at the F3 cutoff point. As Bogdan wrote, the F3 of the Rokit 5 is likely 50 Hz, maybe only 55 Hz. Probably the latter. That will not produce the deep warm bass people like.
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So, don't be impressed with the F10 cutoff point. Only look at the F3 cutoff point.
I won't consider speakers that don't include testing results for response of +- 3db, and power rating in RMS, not peak power. As well as other results such as self noise, and THD.
I generally look for independent testing of speakers on sites like this one, where they test my studio monitors: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/kali-lp-6-review-studio-monitor.17978/ (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/kali-lp-6-review-studio-monitor.17978/)
Lee is very correct in saying that the room the speakers are playing in has a tremendous effect on how they sound. That's why I'm amazed that folks ask others for their EQ curves. They are completely room dependent.
I use a subwoofer to extend the bass response of my main speakers. Properly adjusted, you don't notice the sub much, if at all. You mainly notice if the subwoofer is not on. It's as much how the music feels as how it sounds.
Best Regards,
Craig
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Thanks Craig...good advice.
Another key is to not run the sub too loud. I try to think of my bass settings as to how a well balanced band sounds on a decent stage.
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This is my setup
Yamaha MSP10 & SW10
(https://app.box.com/file/1439896660468)
(https://app.box.com/file/1439885356164)
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...
Properly adjusted, you don't notice the sub much, if at all. You mainly notice if the subwoofer is not on.
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-very well said :)
However there's another problem that in most cases can't be avoided: crossover frequency.
While we can set low-pass on subwoofer, we can't set high-pass on studio monitors. And because of that, it's impossible to have whole frequency range in balance (flat).
Example:
Monitor starts at 50Hz (-3dB), but the lowest low-pass setting on subwoofer is 70Hz. In this case 50-70Hz range will be much louder than the rest of the spectrum, which results with unpleasant "boomy" bass in that range.
Only few affordable subwoofers manage crossover frequency properly: at changing low-pass frequency, the setting is also applied on outputs as high-pass frequency. Btw. KRK subwoofers are among those that do that correctly.
Bogdan
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However there's another problem that in most cases can't be avoided: crossover frequency.
Hi Bogdan, most of the powered studio systems are set up where the stereo output is routed to the subwoofer, then another set of cables route from the sub to the mains. The subwoofer has a low pass filter, so it only gets the low frequencies, and then a high pass filter outputs to the mains. This method works very well. My system doesn't show a bump at all at 80 hz. (the crossover frequency on my system). I haven't run across any systems that will overlap where the same frequencies are being sent to the subs and the mains.
I measured the actual output from my system using REW, and a calibrated microphone. The output is pretty flat from32 hz to 16,00 hz, with a +5 db hump at 43 hz. I'm EQ'ing to the B&K curve, as I prefer it to the Harmon.
Best Regards,
Craig
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hi Craig,
I wasn't talking about your subwoofer (I have no idea which one you have). I was speaking in general, because many budget subwoofers don't have high-pass filter at outputs (where L+R mains are connected) -that is, outputs are simply parallel from input.
If subwoofer has high-pass filter on outputs, then I would expect that this would be mentioned in subwoofer description or in manual -because it's a quite important feature.
Greetings,
Bogdan
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hi Craig,
I wasn't talking about your subwoofer (I have no idea which one you have). I was speaking in general
Hey Bogdan. Thanks for clarifying. No, I wasn't talking about my subwoofer and mains so much as saying that my powered speakers are considered to be "entry level" for studio monitors, and they don't have issues with double amplification of bass frequencies. Re-reading my post, I see how I created some confusion. Note to self: Never post in a hurry.
Thanks!
Craig
P.S.
I am using Kali Audio 6.2 subwoofer (about $500 retail in US) and for mains Kali Audio LP6 V2. (about $300 a pair retail in US)
Most experienced folks consider this to be an entry level set of quality studio monitors.
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hi Craig,
"Entry level" is many times understood as "better than nothing", which for sure isn't true for your Kali combo. If we forget some exotic/expensive speakers, then I would say it's above average (for home use).
Btw, I checked WS-6.2 manual, p.11: XLR Outputs (https://kali-audio-staging-bucket.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Assets/Subwoofer/WS-6/Kali_Audio_WS-62_Subwoofer_Users_Guide_Apr_12_2023_Latest.pdf)) which confirms what you say: there's no bass bump -it can't be, because subwoofer has high-pass filter (80Hz) built-in for main speakers.
Greetings,
Bogdan