PSR Tutorial Forum
Genos (12 Boards) => Genos - General => Topic started by: soryt on June 30, 2022, 09:47:01 AM
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its here now >> https://youtu.be/2InFUgORHEo
Now waiting for Genos 2 8)
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hi
Also the Piano seems to be mostly featured.
I want to know what the saxes and Electric guitars are like.
From the videos so far things seem a little toppy.
From the Violin i thought it sounded more like Roland sounds.
The thing is that we need to see more interesting videos and hear the thing live really
Making styles from midi easier seems like a great idea.
Loading sounds easier would be great rather than The yamaha pack system.
Also will there be a file for Cubase 12 for sounds.
More space for your own samples
To convince me to change from Genos will take a lot more questions to answer.
All the best
John
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More info to find here at Korg's site:
https://www.korg.com/us/products/synthesizers/pa5x/ (https://www.korg.com/us/products/synthesizers/pa5x/)
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Hi
Electric guitars sound a little off to me.
Some of those Korg demos did not convince me.
So far i have not got the wow factor ::) :P
No real sax demo's also
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Why are we talking about Korg on a Genos thread. This should obviously have its own thread called other keyboards or better still if you want to know more then go to the Korg forum. I have not been that impressed by what I have seen so far.
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Because we are interested in the future of keyboards and making comparisons with other makes of keyboards. It is all relevant in my view
To tell you the truth Eileen, i am not too impressed at the moment.
I think it is now time for Yamaha to speak to us about the future.
All the best
John :)
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As usual Yamaha will only talk about their new high end arranger keyboard when it is ready for sale and will be launched very soon.
We are all very loyal and are respecting Yamaha's policy.
JH
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Nice 12 minute demo from Alois Mueller channel, he has several videos up already:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voUmUAGoHqo
Jerry
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The Graphical User Interface is very very beautiful and complete.
I wonder if Allois Mueller pre-programmed the chords, or if they are dynamically detected from what he plays. If it is dynamically detected, the AI algorithm is very very powerful (and interesting) as counterpoints are complex.
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The saxes are unreal from what my ears tell me and everything sounds too toppy.
The Genos sound is far superior in my view , so i will wait for Genos 3.
The advantage of the PAX5 is make styles easier and a little more depth in editing.
I heard also a harmonica sound and it does not compare to the Genos
Come on Yamaha , you can knock the pants of this Korg machine if you make the next one with easier to make styles and better editing and seemless switching.
We need someones demo that not schlager orientated and more to 60s and 70s and 80s for us baby boomers.
I must admit that you want to buy it, because it looks well made and with those stylish wooden ends gives the machine lots of Charater .
The big screen is another puller, but i need convincing on the sound which is most important
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Yeah this is my take also, the korg sounds tinny/doesn't sound "warm/full" IMO and the styles don't really sound realistic though they only gave us like 20 seconds total spread out across the official video from KORG YT. Looks like they added performance pads ala Fantom while adding a LED strip to show what the sliders are controlling ala Genos. What's really cool is the ability to play 2 styles and crossfade them!
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The piano, e.piano, and organs sound better on the surface but live, it may be a different story. The drum kits sound way behind the Genos. One thing is, they'll never sell me if all they do is demo the keyboard by playing Dance or Synth sounds. I have no interest whatsoever in that kind of music. The traditional tunes are in my playing area, not the modern stuff :(.
Let me hear what I need and I'll consider it. Then again, it will likely be a year before we see a PA5X in Canada!
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Hi Lee
This Korg Machine from what i hear is not as good as the Genos
The appearance is fantastic but the sounds are to agressive in my view
Have you noticed from all the videos that the attention is given mostly to the pianos which i do admit sound good.
The electric pianos on the other hand sounded too glassy,harmonica squeaky, Electric Guitars thin, saxes thin and brash. ;D
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8pR3hyAl4U
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Agreed, John - although one demo may not be enough. Yamaha has a lot of homework to do but I have faith in their "wow" factor ;D.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8pR3hyAl4U
So sharp sounding and all piano ,strings way too sharp guitar off the scale pale and thin
The machine so far lacks body in the sounds or is it my ears at 71
Come on Eileen get the cat and nine tails out on Yamaha!! ;D ;D ;D ;D :-X 8)
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I'm not impressed too but I love the fact that now you have 8gb to create your own DNC, RX sounds, and drum kits. That means that you can record for example a Cuban Tres guitar with all the noises and articulations, program it exactly like one of the factory nylon guitar sounds and then replace the nylon guitar sound on the factory latin cuban styles with the new sound that you created to get absolutely authentic results. That is not posible on Genos, you can’t create MegaVoices or S.Art voices
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All good things come to those who wait. 8) ;)
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Do i detect some smoke 8)
I just saw the French demo and The Pax5 sounds totally inferior to the Genos.
Some styles sounded good , all the rest below par
I will be patient :)
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Not totally agree.
At least one very good string orchestra sound for me. Piano, Electric piano and organs are very very good.
And styles are better than Genos styles.
Smooth transition is a must. I hope that will be the case with Genos 2.
I can also wait.
Generally, when Eillen said such things for previous Tyros and Genos, we waited no more than 6 months.
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Not totally agree.
At least one very good string orchestra sound for me. Piano, Electric piano and organs are very very good.
And styles are better than Genos styles.
Smooth transition is a must. I hope that will be the case with Genos 2.
I can also wait.
Generally, when Eillen said such things for previous Tyros and Genos, we waited no more than 6 months.
Er... not quite.
PA4x launched May of 2015 here, Genos launched Dec of 2017 here (but we had the sku in our system since Sept 2017) but either way that was over 2 years later, not 6 months.
Why? Probably because Yamaha was waiting to see how much of a splash the PA4x would make before replacing the Tyros 5.
Then again, if the PA5x makes a huge splash, you bet Yamaha will hurry things up!
Mark
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I talked about the delay between the time when Eillen starts to suggest we wait and the time when a new flagship is launched. Otherwise she says she doesn’t think a new keyboard will appear quickly.
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Well that sounds out of phase ;D
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......organs are very very good.
I kindly disagree. So far I listened to quite a few videos, and the Leslie simulation is still VERY poor. I would call it a Vibrato more than a Rotary effect.
I don't know why Yamaha and Korg (the top arrangers manufacturers IMHO), still lack on this item.
I own an Hammond Xm2 module. Its Leslie is almost perfect and far, far better than Genos and Pa5x Leslie simulation. The XM2 started to be sold in 2005, almost 20 years ago!
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What is so annoying is that Yamaha CAN do it. If you listen to the YC upgrade 2 series (stage keyboard) such as YC 61, they have a brilliant Hammond & Leslie speaker simulation.
The original YC 61 was criticised for having a poor organ & Leslie simulation so Yamaha brought out an upgrade that in the version 2 was absolutely brilliant.
This update was done in the same way as the Genos update 2 so Yamaha should be able to give us that, even if it had to be a paid for update.
If this cannot be done then it would be nice if Yamaha could explain this to us.
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"YC Stage Organ Keyboard" OS 1.2
This update was done in the same way as the Genos update 2 so Yamaha should be able to give us that, even if it had to be a paid for update. If this cannot be done then it would be nice if Yamaha could explain this to us.
Yeah, I too think Yamaha could improve the Genos Leslie simulation with an OS update. Although, I think they'll wait until Genos II which will likely include an improved Leslie simulation onboard. It's all about marketing in order to make more profit. They'll wait and provide improved and added features/functions on the Genos II which gives people more of a reason to upgrade to the newest model. Yamaha waited about 2 years after the PA-4X was released before releasing the Genos. If the past is a prologue we might not see an actual Genos II for a couple more years or so. Perhaps winter or summer NAMM 2024. It gives Yammie more time to scope out the Korg PA-5X. Perhaps they already have one in their possession. Yamaha engineers will have a field day basically inspecting every nook and cranny to see what makes the PA-5X tick. On that knowledge and understanding, Yamaha will likely then introduce features, sounds, and technology on the Genos II that hopefully, will one-up the Korg. Blowing the PA-5X out of the water will be much harder IMO. The PA-5X sounds fabulous IMO and it's feature rich. Although it only has 160-note polyphony but it's allocated across the entire range of the keyboard. The Genos has 256 but as we know it's divided between the factory sounds and the expansion sounds i.e. 128 + 128. In most situations, Genos users would have a difficult time utilizing more than 128 polyphony, especially when playing live IMO. 128 note is rather limiting as various note dropout tests have pointed out. And therefore note dropouts in most situations would happen more often on the Genos compared to the PA-5X even though the Korg only has 160 polyphony. Therefore, hopefully, the Genos II will include 256-note polyphony ACROSS THE ENTIRE RANGE OF THE KEYBOARD which would be another nice incentive for people to upgrade their Genos I would think. Anyway, as one person mentioned if the PA-5X sells like hotcakes Yamaha might spring into action and get the Genos II off the assembly line and into store perhaps in 2023. Here's to hoping. 8)
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IMHO Yamaha will not create a new Genos ( v3 ) update.
BUT ... what we might expect is a brand new high end arranger keyboard.
A complete new arranger with typical Yamaha styles, voices, software, features, looks and design.
We all know what that means : high quality, beauty and reliability. :)
This next Yamaha arranger ( brand name : Genos2 ? ) will be the best keyboard for all users : home players, giggers and pro musicians.
It will be the best keyboard on the market, as usual.
Your wait and patience will be rewarded.
Best regards, JH
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It seems possible on korg pa-5x and perhaps before that a feature allows style chord changes to be only triggered with low velocities. It allows complex counterpoints with higher velocities.
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To Jeff's point...the level at which these keyboards reside in the list of all the arrangers, invokes a high degree of brand loyalty. It's unlikely there will be a mass exodus from the Genos to the PA5X, and Yamaha knows this. Yes, we're all anxious to see Yamaha's response to the PA5X, but they will think Genos 2 through very carefully. I suspect they've had the prototype built for a long time. They just need to ensure there's nothing missing that would jeopardize their position in the marketplace.
As a side note I would like to see less "repurposing" of the traditional styles on Genos 1 to Genos 2. The jump from Tyros 5 to Genos was excellent but many of the styles were just changed a bit and reused with the newer voices. Many had the same old sound. If Yamaha can't do that, then give us an external style creator that we can use to make our own styles. The internal style creator works but it's like a pig on stilts. Very clumsy and not well thought out.
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The so called Genos 2 price will have to be lowered to match Pa5x to compete in these hard times also and a 61/76/& 88 key model and a Genos Module will have to be offered to make it exciting & interesting if they are smart to bring in the young & old at this point imo..
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Aside from the sensitive pads, extra cpu humpf and usb audio interface, the genos can do mostly everything I saw so far, it just needs a proper software update.
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Aside from the sensitive pads, extra cpu humpf and usb audio interface, the genos can do mostly everything I saw so far, it just needs a proper software update.
Agreed! The last update messed up my default view in the Live Control window and on one has been able to fix it. I suspect an incompatibility between the original registrations I carried over from the T5 and the current setup in the Genos. God only knows what. Everything worked perfect before this last update >:(!!
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The best thing of the PA5 is the Alu casing and wooden sides , and the form factor .
I hope Yamaha get rid of the "Tupperware" case of the present Genos ;)
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I agree with soryt.
To me the Korg PA5X looks more like a professional keyboard than the Genos with the wooden cheeks adding a touch of class.
Also like the hinged screen and having no waste space at the right end of the board.
Lots of buttons to remember but still prefer more buttons and a bit less on the touch screen.
I also like where the four one touch buttons are too, next to the style controls.
A choice of 61, 76 or 88 notes will also satisfy every would be buyer.
If they made a module, I would buy it immediately to complement my Genos and have a very passable (but not great) organ at last.
Genos is still top but, with a little effort, Yamaha could still be untouchable.
Still a few voices on my ancient KN 7000 that neither Korg or Yamaha can match.
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The best thing of the PA5 is the Aluminum casing and wooden sides, and the form factor.
Pa5X-88: 20.1 kg / 44.31 lbs
Pa5X-76: 17.4 kg / 38.36 lbs
Pa5X-61: 15.1 kg / 33.29 lbs
Genos: 13.0 kg / 28.7 lbs
Choose your poison: Metal+wood vs. plastic. :D Metal+wood comes with a weight penalty.
-- pj
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I don't understand this feature on the website:
"User PCM Sample memory: 4 GB of data, equivalent to 8 GB linear when compressed"
Does this mean that there is a physical 4 GB memory chip inside and they have a compression format that is exactly 50% in size of the uncompressed data?
Hi Francesco -- You understand that correctly. :D -- pj
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Thank you PJ !
The weight of the new competition's keyboard makes me shivering ;) ...
Best wishes, JH
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In my experience with Korg arrangers, it's the styles that differentiate the two keyboards (Genes and PA arrangers). I still believe Yamaha has the edge with its styles over any other manufacturer. They are more musical, more eclectic, just better in terms of flexibility and also availability. Korg styles are impressive out the box, but often focus more towards modern pop music and you can hear the individual instruments within the style as individual instruments - not as a band or mixed backing sound.
There are some nice sounds on what I heard, although there are many amazing sounds on Genos - particularly when it comes to acoustic instruments. It's a great keyboard for Korg users, but personally I would not switch my Genes for the PA5X.
Simon
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Two considerations about items having been covered by various posts:
1. Body of Korg vs Genos:
I had many Korg worships and actually Korg body construction is definitely better and stronger (that also positively affects look). But it should also considered the weight factor:
Genos 13.0 kg (28 lb, 11 oz)
Pa5X 76. 17,4 Kg (38.4 lb)
2. Construction quality of Korg:
My last Korg, Pa3X, wasn't an example of fully dependable building quality. Even though my arranger was nicely sitting home for 99% of the time, I needed Korg assistance twice for repairs:
-after a few years (after warranty...) various buttons were not working or working not properly (replaced)
-at once one of the output plugs stopped to work, and had to be replaced.
.....nothing is perfect :D
Ciao
Angelo
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The weight difference is enough to turn me off the PA5X and stay with the Genos, despite its crappy build quality. I do a lot of gigs and when closing in on 70 years, I don't need more weight added. The Genos just sounds better - end of story for me. Can't wait to see what they do with G2 ;).
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Same weight as the Tyros 5
That Tyros did my back in when i lifted it and boxed it to exchange for the Genos!!! ;D
"The pain " "the pain" "oh the pain!!!!!!!!! :-[
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I forgot about the T5, John. Yes, it was a pleasant surprise to see that Yamaha had pruned the Genos down to a lesser weight. For that, I can tolerate the odd button fade and terrible black plastic case.
As a sidebar, I played my first gig last night (Canada Day Concert) with the R&B band I recently joined. I replaced their keyboardist, who was very good, but he played an earlier model Korg from 2012. While not being a fair comparison, the other band members tell me that there is no comparison in the sound of the Korg versus the Genos. We played through a large sound system to a crowd of about 900. Even the sound man said the brass and sax sounds were amazing.
Is Genos 2 in stores yet ;D ;D ;D!
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IMHO Yamaha will not create a new Genos ( v3 ) update.
BUT ... what we might expect is a brand new high end arranger keyboard.
A complete new arranger with typical Yamaha styles, voices, software, features, looks and design.
We all know what that means : high quality, beauty and reliability. :)
This next Yamaha arranger ( brand name : Genos2 ? ) will be the best keyboard for all users : home players, giggers and pro musicians.
It will be the best keyboard on the market, as usual.
Your wait and patience will be rewarded.
Best regards, JH
My patience will only rewarded if YAMAHA finally ( like on their DGX 670 ) finally supports digital audio inputs and multichannel digital output over USB to their new GENOS2. Instead of just MIDI...
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It is obvious that the reviews of Korg PA5X will be biased on this forum, and Genos will always be inferior on the Korg Forum; and both are phenomenal instruments, and they will never equal each other, so let's enjoy them both! Differences will always remain.
I'm getting the PA5X now and will wait for the new Genos as & when it is released.
:)
Uday
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Hi Uday :
Thank you for your feedback !
Does that mean this new competitor's keyboard is available ( in the USA ) yet ?
Plse advise. Thanks, JH
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Jeff,
Yes, they are taking orders and should be available by the end of the month. Numerous websites have listed it, eg, the "street price" for 76 is $4899. Let me know if you want the names of the websites.
And comments like the sound is too sharp or whatever, when he plays a YT video through computer speakers should bear no credibility at all unless one plays it live through a regular sound system! So, comments regarding the PA5X from those who have NEVER played it live, should obviously be ignored.
:)
Uday
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The Genos trade in price tells me the whole story even without listening to the PAX5
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The Genos trade in price tells me the whole story even without listening to the PAX5
John, in that case, I advise you to listen to a PAx5 live before you trade in your Genos blindly. ;D ;D
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It is obvious that the reviews of Korg PA5X will be biased on this forum, and Genos will always be inferior on the Korg Forum; and both are phenomenal instruments, and they will never equal each other, so let's enjoy them both! Differences will always remain.
I'm getting the PA5X now and will wait for the new Genos as & when it is released.
:)
Uday
I'm afraid that I must agree that you will often find people biased on keyboard sites which are aimed at a particular make.
I, as a genos owner, like a lot of what Korg has come up with in the PA5X, and I'm sure that when owners have set up to their own preferences, they will sound even better.
I play Genos mainly because it is slanted more at the kind of music I like to play whereas Korg are aimed more at a younger and more modern music market.
No one manufacturer excels in every department which is why I have always used modules to complement my main board.
You will have a really good setup when you can pair the PA5X with your Genos. I would love Korg to introduce a PA5X module and make my day.
I do agree that some will always talk a rival down even though they have never played one.
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Ton
I think you misunderstood John’s post. I don’t think he has any intention of trading his Genos for a Korg. I think he meant the high trade in price for a Genos indicates that even a used Genos may be considered superior.
Mike
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You are 100% Mike :)
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At the end of this month, first PA5X's are coming in, I heard here.
A few weeks later, some owners, being also Genos players and members of this forum, might have an impression of their new competitor's arranger keyboard.
Compare these two high end keyboards will not be easy at all.
Both brands are so different but also high quality.
It will not easy to tell us which keyboard is better than the other and why.
All depends of the personal needs and wishes of the enduser.
Like most of you, I am a proud owner of a Yamaha arranger keyboard.
For more than 20 years I am so familiar with Yamaha's software, styles, voices, techniques etc. etc., there is absolutely no need for me to change, to buy or to add another brand.
And even today I am learning new applications, tricks etc. here.
Yamaha gives me everything I need.
BUT ... I am sure the newest high end Korg will be a top arranger for Korg fans.
I wish them all a lot of joy, fun and luck with their new baby.
Best regards, JH
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Hi Jeff
I have looked at all demo videos and none compare with the Genos especially Saxes, Guitars and even the harmonica.
Even the old Technics KN2000 had better saxes.
The PAX5 lacks warmth. Everything sounds too digital
Also the synth sounds sound a lot better on the Genos.
The Korg sax sounds clarinet-y to me.
I use the sax a lot as it has lots of human like expression. I have a terrible voice like Foghorn Cleghorn!! ;D ;D
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Agreed about the sax voice, John. I've only watched two demo videos but in the one, the caption read something like "Sax solo voice." The demonstrator started playing what sounded like a semi-good clarinet voice. My thinking was the videographer put the wrong caption on the screen, which is forgivable. They just need a different editor ;D!
On the other hand, if that's the PA5X's true sax voice, then my Honda Odyssey minivan is a Volkswagen Beetle.
Edit
Something else. I agree with your "sterile, tinny" sound impression. It makes sense because as someone mentioned, it seems the PA5X is designed for the younger players who like Dance and other modern styles. I have no use for that kind of music and would be happy without those styles or the synth voices. My focus is music from the late 70s and earlier - back in a time where producing music involved playing the songs, not "manufacturing" them.
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Hi Lee
You are right there modern edm music is for a generation of sample button flashing light console canned music operators. Give me an "e" :-*
Todays singers all sound like Moaning Myrtles!!
At least we know with the Genos we can get warmer sound
All the best
John
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Agreed, John.
If Korg hopes to attract Genos users away from their keyboards, they'll be lucky to snag <1%. I sure hope Yamaha doesn't go the same route with G2. Their styles and voices are exactly what I need and if G2 improves on that concept further, I'll be waiting at the store, cash in hand! If they leave me hanging and focus on the younger EDM crowd who sing like robots with a bad cold, I'll be gone or at least hanging onto to my G1.
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My focus is music from the late 70s and earlier - back in a time where producing music involved playing the songs, not "manufacturing" them.
Some musicians will consider that using a style or an Electronic Yamaha sax SA2sample is "manufacturing" music
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Hi John :
Thanks for your comments.
You have the impression the Genos' sound quality ( in general ) is much better, right ?
That is very good news for Yamaha 's present high end arranger keyboard.
That might explain why Yamaha are not in a hurry to launch the Genos2 soon, I guess ?
Best wishes, Jeff
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Some musicians will consider that using a style or an Electronic Yamaha sax SA2sample is "manufacturing" music
Very true but by "manufacturing music" I refer to those who solely depend on a large box of electronic tools to produce an end product that sounds good compared to those who have enough musical prowess and require very little added on tools to achieve the same thing. For example, the great singers and piano players throughout history have never needed pitch correction, voice shaping, quantization, or an overindulgence of EQ and compression to compensate for a lack of musical ability.
Using the Genos for a background or a solo instrument is just one tool out of thousands. The person sitting behind it must know how to make music and not depend solely on that tool to produce a decent end product. Like the old saying goes, "Anyone can play the notes but can you make music?"
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Hi John :
Thanks for your comments.
You have the impression the Genos' sound quality ( in general ) is much better, right ?
That is very good news for Yamaha 's present high end arranger keyboard.
That might explain why Yamaha are not in a hurry to launch the Genos2 soon, I guess ?
Best wishes, Jeff
Very true, Jeff. Most of those who intended to buy a Genos have done so already. Yamaha is no longer in danger of losing potential Genos customers because there's another tool on the block. Of course, there will be a few who sniff out the PA5X and switch but I doubt those numbers will be a danger to Yamaha. Most Genos customers will wait for Yamaha's reply. If it's dismal, then things could change.
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Some musicians will consider that using a style or an Electronic Yamaha sax SA2sample is "manufacturing" music
A sax is a sax and has to be played by notes the same as a keyboard .
The skill is using the articulations and getting the trills right.
We go from side to side and a sax player goes up and down
Well, Sausages to that then!!! ;) :)
There is no skill in putting a load of samples on a flashing light box and being a DJ just pressing buttons.
The skilled Dj's of the past could actually entertain people, not just push buttons and look like an automaton with a blank staring face on the stage.
The trouble with todays music is that it is depressing and not fun anymore.
That George Ezra would not even make B side on a disc in the 70s because he is so nondescript like all of todays manufactured rubbish.
The millionaire moguls are laughing all the way to the bank churning out music on a conveyor belt
Today is a different world where music is dull , you can get knifed going out late at night .Women are not safe and drugs are rife on the scene.
Couple that with mobile phones and playstations and you have a depressive world of lazy youngsters that want easy jobs and high pay and cannot put up with stress.
I tell young people that if i had a time machine i would go back to the 60s and 70s in a heartbeat
I'm off to a Deep Purple concert now. Where did i put that Argon Accumulator!!! "Oh i must get a flux capacitor!! ::) ;D Got to McFly! :)
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I always enjoy your humor, John! Sadly, you're right about today's music. Among the musicians I work with, we all agree that there has been very little decent music written since about the mid 80s. Sad...it's all thump with no melody and nothing but violent or depressing lyrics.
Perhaps I could fire up my Star Trek transporter and beam over to your place. From there, we'll go to the pub for a few pints - my treat. I'll need your co-ordinates when you have a moment ;D.
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Beam me up !! ;D
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Remember Genos will let you apply multiple insert DSP to any part. The limitation is that on the UI you can only edit the parameters of the one 'on top' of the stack.
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Registrations will save more than 1 insert DSP per voice. Parameter edits will also be retained as long as the changes are first saved as a User DSP (for dsp's that are not top of the stack) before memorising the registration.
John
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And the V2 upgrade gave us 30 user effect slots to play with.
You can use DSP 1-19 with any voice part. Though I expect that a stack of 19 DSP *might just* be considered overkill :)
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How can anyone possibly find faults, sound or otherwise when they have not yet seen or even played a new keyboard.
Although YouTube quality can be good, one can't judge a product from listening to a YouTube Video.
A lot of forum members own both Yamaha & Korg, they are both different and there to be enjoyed.
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The quality of Yamaha effects is excellent, and they can be saved to registration memory.
the only problem is transitioning from one sound to another continuously, as you will hear clipping or popping, due to the different effect settings for each voice, within the same registration bank
I think that this problem of transitioning from one sound to another, Yamaha can solve it in the next flagship, and even mid-range models.
Cheers
Hans
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How can anyone possibly find faults, sound or otherwise when they have not yet seen or even played a new keyboard.
Although YouTube quality can be good, one can't judge a product from listening to a YouTube Video.
A lot of forum members own both Yamaha & Korg, they are both different and there to be enjoyed.
That's a good approach, Graham. I agree with you on this. But remember you are on a YAMAHA forum! Then there will always be Yammies who (rightly or wrongly?) think that they have the 'best' in the world and have a judgment ready quickly. You come across such opinions all over the internet in various forums about, for example, cars, mobile phones, TVs, etc. etc. Trying to convince someone else of the opposite on a 'brand forum' is often a waste of energy. Leave it, just decide for yourself and be happy what you have. ;-)
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Graham, so far my comparisons of the 5X versus Genos are based on listening to both keyboards on YouTube. Of course, it depends on how the two keyboards were recorded but YouTube is a good base line measurement. I agree that playing the 5X in person through a real sound system may blow ones socks off their feet but that's yet to be seen ;D.
There was one demo in what sounded like Spanish or Italian - sorry I couldn't tell BUT I believe it was from either Korg or another authorized source, and video quality was uploaded at 250p!!!! What the heck was that :o? Whomever uploaded and produced the demo is still living in the mid-90s ::).
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How can anyone possibly find faults, sound or otherwise when they have not yet seen or even played a new keyboard.
Although YouTube quality can be good, one can't judge a product from listening to a YouTube Video.
A lot of forum members own both Yamaha & Korg, they are both different and there to be enjoyed.
Graham, Well said!
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Just some interesting trivia:
Although Yammies and Korgies spar a lot, the relationship between Yamaha and Korg had always been cordial. In fact, Yamaha controlled Korg from 1987 to around 1993.
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Why are we talking about Korg on a Genos thread. This should obviously have its own thread called other keyboards or better still if you want to know more then go to the Korg forum. I have not been that impressed by what I have seen so far
I agree with Eileen. I have not seen any section on this site for Other Keyboards. Although a PSR site, many of us have/want a complementary keyboard(s), and having the discussions with other PSR/Genos enthusiasts may offer context that other sites may not.
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Hello,
Although agree with Eileen about how this forum is directed yamaha keyboards and usage,
i did find a few of the new korg videos helpful
in locating a new feature that was totally lacking in the current Genos, or sx900. That feature was the ability to put 2 styles
together to create a new groove,, etc. However, after much thought decided to try putting a style on and then finding a loop
multi pad... i.e. love ballad with one of the acoustic guitar bossas.... which worked well,,, also... the yamahas have a style
creator function (which am totally unexperienced, but does exist) whereby it would be possible to insert, develop a style that has
2 different grooves. So not overly impressed by the korg feature but the video did inspire a curiousity how to make the genos
comparable, using 2 styles as well. I think this is a valid way to check out these new keyboards and discover how we can increase usage with new ideas . tips , tricks etc. on our current yamahas.
cheers
elaine
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Yes, all the bells and whistles on the new Pax5 may draw many in but it is the sound that counts and the Pax5 does not come anywhere near the Genos.
I have watched quite a few videos and they have convinced me that the Pax5 is inferior on sound overall.
Just look at the trade in price for the Genos. It is a no brainer to hang on to your Genos's, but do not squeeze to hard!! ::) ;D
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Here is another Pa5X YouTube video that is quite impressive in my opinion. From Bonedo Synthesizers and it really shows in some detail how good the Pa5X stacks up to the competition, the Genos being the other flagship arranger currently on the market that is its direct competitor and Yamaha is probably taking notice. I think Korg really hit a home run this time around and Yamaha will have to step up its game to give the Pa5X a run for its money. In about 2 years? We'll see but Yamaha might want to speed things up a bit or they might lose a lot of loyal customers to the competition if they drag their feet and dilly dally. The demonstration is all playing, no talking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOcSpJB9310
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There's no question the 5X has its strengths. About 90% of that demo contains the electronic genre, which I never play. The one part with the solo trumpet sounded dated but perhaps it can be EQed to match the Genos quality. The pianos and organs are better than Genos.
It sounds like Korg is chasing a different market than Yamaha. If G2 comes out and leans heavy toward the Dance stuff, I won't be buying it.
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Here is another Pa5X YouTube video that is quite impressive in my opinion. From Bonedo Synthesizers and it really shows in some detail how good the Pa5X stacks up to the competition, the Genos being the other flagship arranger currently on the market that is its direct competitor and Yamaha is probably taking notice. I think Korg really hit a home run this time around and Yamaha will have to step up its game to give the Pa5X a run for its money. In about 2 years? We'll see but Yamaha might want to speed things up a bit or they might lose a lot of loyal customers to the competition if they drag their feet and dilly dally. The demonstration is all playing, no talking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOcSpJB9310
Hi
I have discovered the wow factor :-[
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Hi Guys :
It might be interesting to know the pros and cons of a competitor's product.
Much more useful for the manufacturer than for the enduser though.
However, if a customer is happy and pleased with her/his arranger keyboard, why should she/he decide to go for another brand ?
I am very happy with my Yamaha. Why should I change ?
Both Japanese companies have their own OS.
The software is not interchangeable.
Some people own/play both brands : Yamaha and Korg.
It might be useful to know why they need two different arrangers.
Best regards, JH
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This is a worthy video of PA5X... I recommend listening through some good headphones or a lovely pair of ((((Focal Studio Monitors)))) wink wink...you know who you are :) https://youtu.be/6NmeXzieR4U
P.s... I also recommend copy/past into YouTube search bar the link above for HD video and best sound quality.
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Hi Guys :
It might be interesting to know the pros and cons of a competitor's product.
Much more useful for the manufacturer than for the enduser though.
However, if a customer is happy and pleased with her/his arranger keyboard, why should she/he decide to go for another brand ?
I am very happy with my Yamaha. Why should I change ?
Both Japanese companies have their own OS.
The software is not interchangeable.
Some people own/play both brands : Yamaha and Korg.
It might be useful to know why they need two different arrangers.
Best regards, JH
I had a Korg Pa600 and I never liked the sound of the keyboard but there are two really amazing things I love about the Pa600, one is the midi sequencer, It is much better than the one I have on my CVP809 and my PSR S970. The second thing is the ability to create new RX and DNC sounds (These sounds are similar to the MegaVoices and Super Articulation 2 voices that you usually found on Yamaha Keyboards) this kind of feature is really useful because you can create new sounds like for example A Peruvian pan flute with all the articulations and noises or a new piano with all the mechanical noises, release samples, etc, and then sell it to someone.
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If a Yamaha is sounding so much better than a Korg, why should I buy a Korg ever ?
For me the sound quality is the most important feature.
JH
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I was ready with my PSR S950 and bought a second hand Korg PA4X from a friend.
A keyboard with a lot of extra software. I am am happy with this...! Now I will get used to
the other user interface. But this is easy..! The Touchscreen makes things easy!
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Sound quality may be partly individual taste. People who already own Yamaha likely did so because they like the 'yamaha' sound. So its not surprising to find on a Yamaha forum that people continue to prefer the sound of the yamaha.
There will be others who feel the same way about the 'Korg' sound.
Mike
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Hi,
For me this is representative
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HL6DVzqmk8
Now, PA4x-76 was here 2500Euro and PA5x-76 is 4600Euro - huge difference. 200Euro up to Genos.
I just wait to see live the difference of the sound quality for this 2100Euro.
Regarding the internal software, like usual at KORG, what it is, it is full not half measure(no other software needs).
Same number of voice and style for users (768 voice and 384 drums)
Waiting for kind of free LOCAL for second set full - is not
I'm worry for DIRECT presence which increase number of user styles - I didn't saw until now
KAOOS FX function of PA4x - almost sure is not
MIDI to STYLE PA4x function - I didn't find on the extended user manual - possible to be, but?
Waiting for SDD instead of HDD - no chance - economy issue - only one, not included, SD card like on the previous series.
Nice 2 players for everything and 16 pad Matrix new function.
Even I have both, I don't love YAMAHA or KORG I love music and I will try to be happy with what they try to sale me.
Best Regards!
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If a Yamaha is sounding so much better than a Korg, why should I buy a Korg ever ?
For me the sound quality is the most important feature.
JH
Ride on Jeff !! :)
The Genos sax sounds like one. The korg sax sounds more like a clarinet
The Korg Guitars are dire.
Pianos on Korg are good ,the rest under par ::)
My last word on this subject
The next Yamaha i will wait for :)
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With you there John.
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The Genos sax sounds like one. The Korg sax sounds more like a clarinet.
Hi John --
Aside from the sax sound on Yamaha, what really sold me is the SA/SA2 playability and responsiveness, for lack of other terms. Yamaha really nails this. I can play a sax line by intuition and the instrument seems to be an extension of my gestures.
Can Korg do this? I &^^%$&^ well don't know. Korg arrangers are completely MIA (missing in action) in USA retail stores. I'm not about to order a $4K arranger on-line just to try it and send it back! Someone praised the Kronos acoustic instrument emulations, but they left me cold.
It's a musical instrument, so honestly, I don't know what to expect unless I actually play it and hear it in person.
Good points -- pj
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Hello,
Dear Genos forum members, it is in my opinion very premature to pass judgment on the Korg Pa5x! It is common, as on all forums, that the competing brand is viewed and listened to with a magnifying glass. It is very difficult for a "You-Tube" video to show the true quality.
Just to be clear, I am a Genos player and previously Tyros 1 & 5. Last year I sold a near-new Korg Pa4x 76 'Musikant' back after about 10 months.
As usual, the Korg Pa4x could also do things that Genos couldn't or didn't have on board, such as the extensive sound and style editor, very good drums, midi to style (creator-bot), the wonderful “TC Helicon” harmoniser, loading sounds without extra software and without formatting the entire memory in most cases.
What also struck me was that the Korg Pa4x sounds better in the mixing than Genos for live use, what is said here that the sounds are not good I think is total nonsense, the quality is sometimes variable but comparable to Genos.
The good choice of materials stood head and shoulders above Genos, this is also the case with the Pa5x.
The big disadvantage of the Korg Pa4x was the software, it had no structure and therefore difficult to operate, unlike the user-friendly structure of the Genos.
For example: loading styles, mp3, midi's must always be done via complete "sets" or "direct sets", while with Genos this data can be read and used directly from a USB stick.
I am very satisfied with my Genos since the end of 2017, and I don't wait for a successor to the Genos.
One very important note! it's not the keyboard that plays the biggest role but especially the person behind it!!!!
PS: this weekend I'm going to a private demo of the Pa5x with a Korg demonstrator, I'll be able to hear and see how it really sounds and what the improvements are in handling.
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Hi musicman01
Bravo!!!. That is exactly the point (I'm a Tyros5 player).
Peter
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A very good demo which is almost 90 mins long. Good selection of solo voices demo’s.
Well worth a listen even if you are not a Korg fan.
https://youtu.be/MQaJklT5bUQ
Bill
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Oh dear nasty sounds. Some of those resonances hurt the ear with a sharp muffled type sound
I had to reply to this as there is no way that this machine comes anywhere near the Genos
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Hi John --
Aside from the sax sound on Yamaha, what really sold me is the SA/SA2 playability and responsiveness, for lack of other terms. Yamaha really nails this. I can play a sax line by intuition and the instrument seems to be an extension of my gestures.
Can Korg do this? I &^^%$&^ well don't know. Korg arrangers are completely MIA (missing in action) in USA retail stores. I'm not about to order a $4K arranger on-line just to try it and send it back! Someone praised the Kronos acoustic instrument emulations, but they left me cold.
It's a musical instrument, so honestly, I don't know what to expect unless I actually play it and hear it in person.
Good points -- pj
Well, I haven't tried the PA5x yet, but my experience with the PA4x/PA1000:
The ariculations aren't as intuitive, no. For example, the body tap of a Classical guitar on Yamaha is controller by a pedal; on the Korg it was slapping the joystick down (-y), which meant I couldn't play the guitar sound with both hands, and often meant that you'd accidentally pitch while slapping the joystick. Even more baffling, the Yamaha body tap works tapping the pedal regardless, but slapping down on the joystick *only* produced the body tap sound while you were holding at least a note. Which often meant the tap wouldn't sound if it'd already instinctively lifted my right hand off the keys.
Yamaha S.Art2 saxes glide (glissando) very naturally and effortlessly, automatically going monophonic/polyphonic as the transitions require. The Korg S.Art2 sax is always poly, meaning when you hit the glissando button, you have to time letting go of the note *just right* or you'll break the illusion (and you'll hear 2 saxes momentarily).
On the other hand, their megavoice noises (fret noise, pick noise) are basically a function of S.Art (DNC on Korg) rather than megavoice; so you can play all the guitar sounds from a style without learning *how* to control them.
Personally, I found the strings & brass on the Pa4x too synthetic, which is why I always used Yamaha in my orchestral demos (and, registrations are a necessity to me). However, the behavior of their Tutti is *much* smoother than Yamaha's (it reserves more than 1 polyphony for the cymbal crash)
EDIT: forgot to mention, their automatic quantizing for chord changes is better on Korg. On Yamaha, it's possible to change chords *while* a note is playing, and you'll hear a funny correction; Korg seems to quantize your chord changes in real time. So that's nice.
Conversely, I found it much more difficult to program styles on Korg (and indeed, even to 'load' them into a fixed array slot), but that could just take getting used to the workflow.
Mark
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A good friend of mine bought the first PA5X in the Netherlands.
I bought his PA4X with a lot of extra software. His first impression of the PA5X was:
The PA4X sounds better as it is. You have to make the system to your own hand.
It is the same with a Yamaha strait out of the box .. You have to make it sound the way you like it.
I am happy now with the PA4X. It gives me new inspiration. I nearly touched my PSR S950 for months.
Now I play some hours a day at the Korg. A new toy gives some new advantageges ;-)
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Hi.
For those who are interested, there is a Yamaha Genos VS Korg PA5X sounds and styles comparison at A&C Hamilton's YT channel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlSj0jwU5CU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlSj0jwU5CU)
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Korg have produced a game changer here with the Pa5X.
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There's not only Korg releasing a good keyboard at the moment. This is the latest from Akai...
https://youtu.be/XQ9r1Q0kWNA?t=811
It's basically a keyboard with a built in DAW. I've linked to the part of the vid concerning layers and splits which is where you can build styles/backing routines easily and if you don't find a voice you like, you can sample your own from virtually any source. Feel free to explore the whole video.
To me, Yamaha need to take a close look and make it easier to work with style, voice and multipad creation to stay with the leaders. This won't replace my Yamaha keyboard but it will work happily alongside it :)
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I don’t think the Akai is direct competition for TOTL arrangers. It addresses a different market segment. Although some arranger players have an interest in this kind of functionality, it’s not what draws the mainstream arranger buyer.
Mike
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I agree, Mike.
IMHO it is more a synth than an arranger keyboard.
I checked the local dealer price of this MPC Akai : Euro 1999,--, all included.
Best wishes, JH
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I wonder why this thread did not deserve to be pinned on top. It has more postings and has a better title than the silly "This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!" thread !
Maybe it's because the postings to this thread show Korg in a positive light while the other thread was started by a "Yammy" biased OP?
Just wondering?
Uday
:)
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I wonder why this thread did not deserve to be pinned on top. It has more postings and has a better title than the silly "This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!" thread !
Maybe it's because the postings to this thread show Korg in a positive light while the other thread was started by a "Yammy" biased OP?
Just wondering?
Uday
:)
What's wrong with having a bias for Yamaha keyboards? Especially if you own a Yamaha keyboard and your posting on a Yamaha forum, seems like a no brainer to me. :)
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My experience is I have a Genos and a Pa4x, each has their own strengths but if someone said you have to give one up it's either the Genos or the Pa4x I would give up the Korg Pa4x. I enjoy both boards but I've been partial Yamaha since the early 2000s. I will say had this been 5 years ago and Korg released an 88 key arranger with a piano keyboard touch I would be in line to purchase one. 5 years ago I played more gigs but no longer play nearly as many so it'a moot point to get an 88 key arranger for gigging.
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IMHO it is a smart idea to add an 88 k arranger.
Very interesting for piano lovers, home players and ... some giggers too.
Hard to believe Yamaha will ever do that. See CVP.
And what about a 61k high end arranger ?
Only Yamaha can answer this question.
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I wonder why this thread did not deserve to be pinned on top. It has more postings and has a better title than the silly "This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!" thread !
Maybe it's because the postings to this thread show Korg in a positive light while the other thread was started by a "Yammy" biased OP?
Just wondering?
Uday
:)
Well, first off this POST is listed under the GENOS category. So right off from the start this POST is in the wrong section of the Form (and should have been moved a long time ago). ;)
Secondly this is a YAMAHA HELP BOARD and not a Korg help board. In fact I don't believe anybody here really gives a rip about a Korg keyboard OR they would be at the Korg keyboard forum (wherever it is or even if there is one). ;D
What is the point of posting a Korg thread here at PSR help forum other than to BASH Yamaha keyboards?
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It's called NEWS, and believe it or not, there are both Genos & Korg owners here, so, in fairness to all, let there be peace, and enjoy both keyboards to their fullest extent, as both are superb, having features that are unique to each, all brilliant!
Uday
:)
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It's called NEWS, and believe it or not, there are both Genos & Korg owners here, so, in fairness to all, let there be peace, and enjoy both keyboards to their fullest extent, as both are superb, having features that are unique to each, all brilliant!
Uday
:)
http://www.korgforums.com/forums-frame.htm
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The reason there are many posts here about the PaX5 is that Yamaha owners are interested, simple as that. It doesn’t mean there is Yamaha bashing, or people recommending changing brands, just information. Most of us are neither Yamaha” people or Korg people. We are arranger players who chose Yamaha at the time of purchase. This is where we come for help on that brand, - we remain with that brand until we don’t, - it’s not a religion.
BTW, to my point about new buyers choosing more keys over less keys, - I read somewhere this morning that the 88 key versions sold out immediately at one large dealer. There will always be some who need a smaller size TOTL keyboard, or who are just financially pressed and want the small cost saving. But overall I think if you offer people an identical full,size, TOTL keyboard over a mini keyboard, both at quite high and not very different cost, many will choose the larger one. I think this 88 key arranger from Korg is a great marketing decision, and a larger Genos might well be the response from Yamaha.
Mike
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This I posted at the category: Forum comments and suggestions:
Looking at the PaX5 discussions and topics I suggest a extra/new category 'KEYBOARDS OTHER BRANDS'
My thinking:
maybe it would be a solution if the respected Joe W. would add 1 category to the forum like eg: KEYBOARDS OTHER BRANDS . Then one can post there and possibly respond to keyboards of another brand, whether or not related to a Yamaha keyboard. Forum members who are not interested can simply skip this category or not read/respond. Don't forget that there are also plenty of members who play a Yamaha and a Korg! Also easier for the moderators to move topics about other brands. On the other hand, the 'real Genos Yammies' seem easily annoyed when another brand is mentioned or discussed that rival the Genos. Such a category prevents this, because it is not posted in the category of, for example, the 'Genos'. They simply don't have to read along, ie. to respond.
Just my 2 cents
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Hi Guys :
The reason why most of us are talking here about the present competition's keyboard is quite simple, IMO.
This new born arranger looks to be an interesting arranger keyboard and ... available very soon in 3 different sizes ( 61, 76 and 88 keys ).
I have seen a couple of video's but I would like to express my personal conclusions in 3 months from now, after receipt of reactions given by endusers.
I have NO intention to buy this keyboard. I would prefer to wait.
Being Yamaha loyalists and players for many years, we are hoping for an answer asap.
However, the answer will not come this year ... BUT ...it will create an earthquak in the arranger keyboard's business next year.
It will be a typical, reliable and high-quality Yamaha product, as usual ( the 2025 technology included ! ).
It is not easy for me ... but I need to be patient. ;)
JH
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Re an additional category - Frankly, it makes no real difference. People can ignore individual posts just as easily as ignoring a full category, if that is what they want to do. Most people read this forum anyway by scanning down the opening page which contains posts in order of time/date posted, rather than in categories.
In the long run it is useful and tidier to have categories, especially when looking back for historical posts, but these statements, often almost indignation, because of a post being in the wrong place, or that mentioning other brands is akin to a mortal sin, is just something to ignore
There really is not much posted about other brands on this forum, except in situations like now ie a high end new model is introduced by another brand and interest is high. And it will be short lived, doesn’t justify setting up a category.
The one area I do take exception to is in posting recordings. I think they should largely be on Yamaha arrangers, unless posted for the specific purpose of comparison, or making some other technical point.
Mike
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Thanks @Mikf for your quick reply, luckely my advise costs me only 0,02 cents ;D
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We need to look at the big picture instead of trying to see where certain posts and topics "fit" (or not!) on this forum.
We have just come through three years of a **** hole called "Covid." Now, we have yet another Adolf Hitler who thinks his rights as a human being come before everyone else's in the world. Most countries are suffering ridiculous inflation and gas prices. The fact that Korg introduced a new arranger is a light at the end of the proverbial tunnel. We know Yamaha has big plans. For us, the 5X is a temporary device to appease our curiosity. Based on the number of posts on this forum, I'd say it's working as most of us eye the 5X, while conjuring up the funds to be ready when Yamaha launches their new Genos.
The world moves forward thanks to people who dare to dream. Let us all dream of a new arranger in peace.
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We need to look at the big picture instead of trying to see where certain posts and topics "fit" (or not!) on this forum.
We have just come through three years of a **** hole called "Covid." Now, we have yet another Adolf Hitler who thinks his rights as a human being come before everyone else's in the world. Most countries are suffering ridiculous inflation and gas prices. The fact that Korg introduced a new arranger is a light at the end of the proverbial tunnel. We know Yamaha has big plans. For us, the 5X is a temporary device to appease our curiosity. Based on the number of posts on this forum, I'd say it's working as most of us eye the 5X, while conjuring up the funds to be ready when Yamaha launches their new Genos.
The world moves forward thanks to people who dare to dream. Let us all dream of a new arranger in peace.
Lee kudos to you for your statement! You speak the truth!
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Thanks, Stephen :D.