PSR Tutorial Forum
PSR Keyboards (11 Boards) => PSR-SX900/SX700/SX600 => Topic started by: nonchai on June 27, 2022, 01:02:09 AM
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Q: in Fingered On Bass mode what's the fingering to get the arranger to play 13 sus4 or as slash FMaj7/G?
(dominant 13 sus4 as used in RnB/neo Soul/Gospel type music )
I mean I know how to voice this But cant get my 900 to play the harmony in its styles.
This voicing is what I want - its a very specific sound.
https://youtu.be/hnF1vPRkPeE
or like this
https://youtu.be/vXDVHlfIzw8
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I don't think it will do that in Fingered on Bass mode. If you play the F/G chord you have the G anyway in the bass so is the 9th really that necessary? Typically I add those kind of harmony notes in my rH other than try to contort my fingers on my LH into funny shapes. As a piano player I normally play across full keyboard and use AI Full Keyboard mode. It will recognize many chords this way, but that doesn't always mean the accompaniment harmony changes. But it doesn't matter because you are playing the harmony notes anyway.
Mike
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You can certainly get an F/G in AI Fingered mode. Left to right, it would be G A F. (Technically, you'll see that you're missing the 5th out of the main chord). Gerry Rafferty's "Baker Street" has a few examples of such chords, as does "Memory" from "Cats".
I've not tried to include the E which would give you the major 7th, so try G A E F. If that doesn't work, then F/G may be as close as you can get. Given that the higher numbered intervals are often played in the melody, that may be sufficient.
AI Fingered mode is more clever than anyone thinks - even those at Yamaha! (They didn't invent it, but bought it in from a very clever man!) I've made it do all sorts of odd chords. If you know how to voice the chords, then you play all the notes - probably with two hands - then start stripping them out one by one, and seeing what happens.
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If you play the F/G chord you have the G anyway in the bass so is the 9th really that necessary?
[corrected] - I didnt really mean 9th - I meant 7th - as in BMaj7/A
And the 7th really IS necessary rather than just plain B (triad) /A
Yes diatonically the same but the extension as with all music makes a big difference.
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Absolutely !
in the same way add2 and 9 chords are different to plain triads.
As far as Yamaha accompaniment is concerned, there is no difference between F Add2/ Add9 and F/G. It treats all inversions as the same exact chord and outputs accompaniment the same, regardless of inversion.
Mark
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As far as Yamaha accompaniment is concerned, there is no difference between F Add2/ Add9 and F/G. It treats all inversions as the same exact chord and outputs accompaniment the same, regardless of inversion.
Mark
Are you saying Yamaha Styles or the arranger engine just wont' or cannot transform harmony for that specific FMaj7/G type of sound?
This is not just a triadic inversion its a very specific and common voicing used in soul, RnB, jazz and neo soul music all over the place.
See this..
https://youtu.be/vXDVHlfIzw8
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AI Fingered mode is more clever than anyone thinks -
I seem to recall but could be wrong -that when using AI fingered mode the arranger ignores On Bass - or in other words making it do slash chords. But will try later.
I really just want to nail this particular sound - not in all styles of course but for RnB, pop, soul and some jazz ( eg Herbie Hancocks Maiden Voyage ) - its pretty important
see here!
https://youtu.be/hwmRQ0PBtXU
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Well, Herbie Hancock is a pianist, and like I say us pianists use two hands for complex harmonies! Auto accompaniment is very clever technology, especially the AI, but has its limitations.
Mike
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Well, Herbie Hancock is a pianist, and like I say us pianists use two hands for complex harmonies! Auto accompaniment is very clever technology, especially the AI, but has its limitations.
I don't see this as some kind of non-trivial insurmountable problem for Yamaha devs.
Maybe I was wrong to use a Herbie tune as an example but far more relevant is the fact that given arrangers are ALL about styles and getting as authentic as possible - it is inherent to many RnB, pop, soul - styles - to use this particular voicing and its close relatives.
Band In A Box can do it so I see no valid reason why Yamaha arrangers shouldn't either.
For a better example of music genres that use this chord voicing all over the place - - just look at the Earth Wind And Fire back catalogue! - something no doubt covered quite a fair bit by one man and wedding/function bands I'd say.
So this chord is by no way obscure or esoteric.
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No it's not esoteric, but it's mainly common in jazz & oldies.
Just try it on your arranger:
CDEG gives you C add9. So does CEGD, GCDE, etc. No inversion changes.
If you try C13 (dominant 7) the chord will be recognized as either Bb /C, or GM7-11, but no inversion changes.
Why? Not sure, probably because arrangers were first created with ABC (auto bass chord) from organs, which meant it read the chord from your left hand, and you can't generally do more than 4 (or 5 with an add9) part chords with 1 hand. So they didn't bother with 2 handed chord recognition. But now that keyboards aren't confined to 61 or fewer keys, maybe they should.
Keep in mind, the accompaniment is also programmed with typically 3,4, or 5 note chords, so even if you successfully could read 2 handed chords, the accompaniment still only has these to draw notes from.
But let's be honest; if you're playing a C13 with 2 hands, and the accompaniment is playing either Bb/C, Gm7-11, Gm7/C, or even C7, you likely won't hear the difference under the actual notes you're already playing. As long as they don't *add* notes outside of the scale you're in, it will still be in harmony.
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Mark - agree 100% with what you posted here. Arrangers have to respond to actual played LH chords and this has implicit limitations. Band in a Box does not have to do this.
I probably use advanced and extended chords more than most so do need reminding of their subtle sound and importance to great harmony. But I also accept nothing does everything.
Mike