PSR Tutorial Forum
Genos (12 Boards) => Genos - General => Topic started by: Patrick on May 19, 2022, 07:52:28 AM
-
Hello, is this a fake news? New Genos 2 coming in 61 keys! All the best, Patrick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDexGrCJTkE
-
That vid is real ... but rhe content with the genos-boxes are faked. If I remember well this shot was shown longtime ago in another vid. I guess that Yamaha would publish new developments as they usely do: with great marketing strategy 😏
-
Defiantly false. I don't think we will ever see a 61 note Genos.
-
Defiantly false. I don't think we will ever see a 61 note Genos.
Hi Eileen,
How can you say that we will not see Genos2 -61 note keyboard ? Now Yamaha is listening to the customers worldwide. Do not think that Genos keyboards are made for western countries only. World wide customers (Oriental, Indian,) looking for Genos-2 61 note keyboard. Our suggestions already considered in Genos like Joystick,oriental voices,styles etc.
Sunny
-
How can you say that we will not see Genos2 -61 note keyboard ? Now Yamaha is listening to the customers worldwide. Do not think that Genos keyboards are made for western countries only. World wide customers (Oriental, Indian,) looking for Genos-2 61 note keyboard. Our suggestions already considered in Genos like Joystick,oriental voices,styles etc.
It’s easy to say there will never be a 61-key Genos. Their lineup is set:
PSR is 61
Genos is 76
Clavinova is 88
There’s no reason for Yamaha to retool for anything different.
Cheers,
Fred
-
I agree with Fred.
If a more specialized "Genos 2" for the Asian type songs comes out, it won't be called "Genos." I think all Genos models have to stay with the 76 key versions because of the sophistication they have built into the keyboard itself. For example, having three Right hand and one Left Hand banks of keys available would be pointless or at least very limiting on a 61 key arranger. Those things alone, require a fair amount of real estate.
-
I agree with Fred.
If a more specialized "Genos 2" for the Asian type songs comes out, it won't be called "Genos." I think all Genos models have to stay with the 76 key versions because of the sophistication they have built into the keyboard itself. For example, having three Right hand and one Left Hand banks of keys available would be pointless or at least very limiting on a 61 key arranger. Those things alone, require a fair amount of real estate.
"Genos" name is only the replacement of Tyros Line keyboards. We have already requested Yamaha to change name of the existing Tyros line series 2,3,4,5 by replacing with new name. Yamaha consider our request. If Yamaha thinks to create anything, they will create, nothing is impossible for Yamaha.
Hope Genos 2 is available in two versions 61 note and 76 versions.
Sunny
-
I suppose it's possible. Wasn't the early Tyros keyboards only available in 61 key versions? After a while they went to 61 and 76, then finished with 76 only?? I don't know if I have that right.
-
If we look at the two top models on the market that came in both versions 61 and 76 (Tyros5 and PA4x) we see that,
except for the length, the case has the same structure and positioning of connections with the user and certainly the fixings of the inside elements.
No one makes a different architecture for the same keyboard model for the cost reasons.
Genos2 can only have versions of 61-76-88 if it is thought of from the beginning, for Genos1 I don't think it is possible anymore.
So IMO the case is everything. :)
Regards!
-
The Genos is only a couple of inches longer than Tyros 5 61 note so people who did not have space for the Tyros 5 76 note are well pleased with Genos as are most that I can't see Yamaha changing this. What is your objection to 76 notes.
-
The Genos is only a couple of inches longer than Tyros 5 61 note so people who did not have space for the Tyros 5 76 note are well pleased with Genos as are most that I can't see Yamaha changing this. What is your objection to 76 notes.
Eileen,
If Yamaha thinks to make it Genos very compact for live performers, they will do without problem like this compact keyboard(see the picture). Yamaha is looking for customers requirements world wide. If Yamaha release Genos2 both versions 61 note compact and 76 note to satisfy all, then what is your objection ?
(http://)
Sunny
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
I passed on the Genos because of its size, not the price. I opted for the SX900 because of 61 notes. I gig a lot in some of the smallest, tightest spots imaginable. I’d spring for a smaller Genos, if such ever appears.
-
Hi, isn't there too much talk about nonsensical things here?? Someone who wants 61 keys buys an SX600,700,900 what is the problem??? People who play with 2 hands and advanced chords need a minimum of 76 keys! Prefer even 88 keys. And the myth that Genos is too big on stage or to transport is just something to whine about!!
What always makes me laugh is that people buy an expensive arranger keyboard to play midi files and mp3! Indeed, then 61 keys is still too much.
-
I've gigged a lot with my previous bands too (not anymore since the pandemic, though), but I've never been in a venue where I wasn't able to find a spot for my T5-76. And for me, 76 keys is a must because I often also play the bass part in bands and split my keyboard up in three sections, and then 61 keys is often just not enough. I admid, when using the machine as an arranger, 61 keys will do most of the time.
For me though, the major disadvantage of T5-76 is the weight. The Genos is 3 kilos lighter, which is significant! I can imagine that some people would love a 61 key version, but I think an SX900 will cover almost 90% of the functionality of a Genos (not considering the keybed).
-
Hi,
Some people talk too much, they think that Genos is made for them only. How selfish they are !
unfortunately Yamaha could not release Genos 61 note version due to hurry. But we are sure that Genos 2 61 note will be released and it will be a substitute for Tyros 5 61 note keyboard. All the players who purchased PSR SX900 because of having 61 note keyboard will come back and purchase Genos 2 61 as soon as it is released.
-
If you think we are all selfish because we have adapted to a 76 note keyboard then that is sad. I had always been used to a 61 note keyboard but wanted all Genos had to offer so changed to 76 note board. Those extra keys are very useful when using three way split points amongst other things. I have gigged with my Genos with no problem at all. Nice also to have the extra notes when playing AI chords.
I also have the SX900 because it is handy for playing in senior homes that only have a small room to play in but at home I always play Genos because it is a great keyboard with all of its 76 keys.
-
The only difference in dimensions of the current Genos vs. PSR-X9000 is, the Genos is 8 inches longer and about 3 pounds heavier. For 99.99% of gigs or other uses, there's no advantage to the 61 key version. The 8 inch difference accounts for the extra octave, which people often prefer - even some Eastern players, I would wager.
Just as most Genos players are home players and very few use the Genos on stage, I would like to know how many Eastern players require a 61 key version vs. not caring if the Genos 2 was 61 or 76 keys. Has a real survey actually been done?
On the other hand, the one advantage the PSR-X9000 has over the Genos is its onboard speakers. For a quick practice where sound quality and balance is not terribly important, you can just turn the PSRX-9000 on anywhere there's a wall plug, and go through a few songs.
There are advantages to each keyboard. However, if Genos 2 is only offered in a 76 key version, there's no reason to knock Yamaha for not offering a 61 key version. The advantages are basically non-existent. Perhaps the Eastern players who, according to Sunny, only want 61 keys, may find 76 keys advantageous in some cases or they may not even care - so long as they can get their hands on the Genos sound for their enjoyment.
If the 76 key version was significantly longer and heavier, then I could see the advantage in having a 61 key version - but that's not the case (no pun intended ::))!
-
If Yamaha thinks to make it Genos very compact for live performers, they will do without problem like this compact keyboard(see the picture). Yamaha is looking for customers requirements world wide. If Yamaha release Genos2 both versions 61 note compact and 76 note to satisfy all, then what is your objection ?
I have no objection to a 61-key Genos. Yamaha can do what they want. I was perfectly happy with a 61-key Tyros for years, and I'd be just as happy with a 61-key Genos, as I seldom use the extra keys. But it ain't going to be. I just hate to see you waste all this time for something that's never going to happen. If you want 61 keys, buy a PSR.
Cheers,
Fred
-
I too used a 61 key PSR for live performances for years. When they released the Tyros in 76 keys, I was delighted. I often need the extra octave.
-
Hi Sunny,
Yamaha could not release Genos 61 note version due to hurry.
Do you know this for a fact, like you heard this from Yamaha? Or is this an assumption, a guess?
My assumption is that the Genos being only available in one version with 76 keys is to reduce costs. And therefore, price.
But we are sure that Genos 2 61 note will be released
Again, with all respect, did you hear this from the development team at Yamaha, or is this your hope and wish?
My expectation is that the Genos2 will again only be available with 76 keys. For cost reduction. It is expensive to make the molds to make the (upper and lower) halves of a keyboard. It only makes economical sense if a vendor can sell many keyboards.
I don't know the sales volumes of Tyros and Genos, but I guess the TOTL keyboards market is relative small. Case in point: Roland left the professional arranger market, and Korg still haven't come up with a successor to the PA4x. Both are still active in the MOTL markets, however, where sales volumes are higher.
So I believe it's a decision mostly based on economic grounds. I believe Yamaha is more than willing to accommodate as many customers as possible. Look at the Montage series, where you have models with different number of keys. The sale figures for Montage are higher than for Genos.
I am so very happy that we still have a top-of-the-line keyboard on this planet!
Maarten
-
Maarten
Korg offered the PA4X with 2 keyboard options, so presumably they felt it was economically worthwhile for them. There are quite a lot of pictures and (leaked) info circulating now about the forthcoming Korg PA5X which appear to be credible. Korg must like the keyboard options approach because, if the leaked information is correct, then Korg is going to be offering the Korg PA5X with THREE keyboard options, including an 88-note hammer action keyboard, all with aftertouch.
I suspect Yamaha's decision to only produce the Genos with 76 keys was purely a marketing policy choice, perhaps based on what they learned from Tyros 5 sales (they certainly know what they are doing when it comes to marketing) - nobody outside Yamaha knows whether that will still be the decision for a new Genos.
-
The percentage of people buying a Genos for gig work compared to home use is relatively small. The percentage of those those that absolutely need the more compact keyboard for gig work is again a relatively small percentage. ie its a very small percentage of a small percentage. Dancing on the head of a pin.
I imagine this is why Yamaha standardized on 76 keys, its just not cost effective to have both.
Nobody knows what Yamaha might do in the future, maybe not even Yamaha! But the odds are stacked against a 61 key Genos anytime soon, for good reason.
In fact the choice of 61 note keyboards was probably originally driven by cost and weight, but that seems to have been solved, because Genos is not very heavy. Maybe we are more likely to see 76 note keyboards in the lower cost models than a 61 key Genos
Mike .
-
Until I got my Genos I always had keyboards with 61 keys. But I have really come to appreciate the extra keys!
-
Dear friends,
about future arrangers, Korg is starting to sell the new Pa5x. It will be available in 3 sizes: 61, 76 and 88 keys.
If you are interested to know more about it, below pls find the link to an Italian store, showing also prices. Sorry that it is in Italian, but one may easy translate trough Google.
https://casamusicalefabio.it/prodotto/korg-pa5x-keyboard/ (https://casamusicalefabio.it/prodotto/korg-pa5x-keyboard/)
I personally am enthusiastic about my Genos 76 keys, not missing at all my previous 61 keys arrangers. Genos is a real jewel in all senses.
Ciao,
Angelo
-
Hi Angelo,
I would be suspect about that PA5x... don't forget they've had youtube videos annoucing "coming soon" since 2018 (the PA4x came out in 2015, everyone assumed they'd launch Pa5x right after Genos). Not that it's not coming soon.. it's been 7 years, it probably *is* about time.
But a 61key Pa5x likely wouldn't make sense; the PA1000 *is* the 61 key version of the PA4x, and the PA900 was the 61 key of the PA3x (same sound library & chipsets, but different flash ram and physical shell); so I'd guess that when the PA5x finally arrives, they'll do the same (PA1100 would be the 61 key version).
An 88 key version of a PA5x would be intriguing though, as they offer no such 88 key equivalent (they do make an 88 key version of the PA300 though).
As Yamaha already has an 88 key instrument using the same sound engine as the Genos (the CVP809, albeit with a fantastic Bosendorfer in place of the C7, and no sample flash ram, and only 2 sound layers versus 3), it's inlikely Yamaha would ever do an 88 key portable version of a Tyros/Genos.
As for why the 76? All previous Tyros were 61 (the last time they offered the choice was the PSR9000, way back in 2000), and then they went with 61 key exclusively for a decade... at which point? the 76 key outsold the 61 key (at least here, anyway) about 3 or 4 to 1. They've been paring down options over the last decade (only 3 CVP models vs 5 for the previous generations, and in fact the current series only offers 2). It costs more to offer different versions, and for roughly the same amount of sales.
I'm not saying they won't ever offer 61 key flagship again, just that it's been more efficient for them not to. For now. Don't forget, by the time the next G2 launches? The PSRsx910 (or whatever they call it) will be for all intents and purposes a 61key Genos, just like the PSRsx900 is essentially a T5 (without the S.A2 sounds).
Mark
*May 28th correction: Turns out the C7 *is* in the CVP809! As a hidden voice. Those sneaky Yamaha engineers!
-
By the way, our lovely Genos is getting more and more precious!
Here is the link to the top music store in Italy: the price is €.5039,00 (!!!!!!!) and is presently not available (neither they say WHEN will be available).
https://www.strumentimusicali.net/product_info.php/products_id/66128/yamaha-genos-digital-workstation.html?keywords=genos (https://www.strumentimusicali.net/product_info.php/products_id/66128/yamaha-genos-digital-workstation.html?keywords=genos)
Ciao
Angelo
-
Holy socks, Anglo. That's about $7,700 CND after tax!!!!!!!!!! I think I'll hang onto my Genos like grim death itself ;D.
Edit If memory serves, when the Genos first arrived in Ontario, it listed at $5,499.
-
That’s 800 more than usual :o in Holland
-
Total Fake News
-
If a Genos 2 ever appears, maybe under a different name, obviously, the price will be more than the current model. If it shows in the 6-8k price range, I may give it a pass. The SX 900 if fine with me at the moment. However, a much improved SX 900 at about half the current Genos price would be tempting.
-
T5 is when they introduced a 76 key, previous ones were only 61 key. I guess with less buttons now that Yamaha is going all in on the touchscreen (a bad idea imo) they could attempt a 61 key version. I would agree that if you wanted an 88 key version, might well get a clavinova CVP instead lol.
-
I guess you guys have noticed the Korg Pa4x has been discontinued. You can't find the Pa4x at online music stores such as Guitar Center, Sweetwater, etc. I found one at an unlikely online establishment but they were asking $7,000. Could have been a scam perhaps. I think the rumors and now pics of the Pa5x are real. There are a few videos on YouTube that are live shots and pretty convincing. It seems Romania has one or two in stock currently but might not be able to sell them yet until Korg's official announcement which could take place at NAMM 2022 at the Anaheim, CA., Convention Center on June 3-5. In other words, in just a few days from now. 8) We already know the new products Yamaha is releasing at NAMM since they've already listed them on their website. Unfortunately, there's no Genos 2 listed. I think Yamaha is deliberately waiting until Korg launches the Pa5x so they can see what the Korg offers and then work diligently on the forthcoming Genos 2 (or whatever they decide to call it) to perhaps implement new features and new sounds (voices) so that when the Genos 2 is released (probably in 2023/2024) it will once again blow the Korg out of the water. ;D
-
I know this is a Yamaha-focused keyboards forum but competition is always a good thing. Here is a video of the "real" Korg Pa5X, supposedly. It looks authentic to me. Remember, the Pa4X has been discontinued after a lengthy run beginning in 2015. I think it's reasonable to assume we would see a new flagship arranger from Korg in 2022. If Yamaha waits 7 years to release a successor to the Genos, Yamaha devotees would be up in arms, but I wouldn't really be surprised due to the global circumstances such as the supply chain crisis, global chip shortage, inflation, and other economic oddities that have upended manufacturers ability to provide customers with new products on a more timely basis. Anywho, here's the video. PS: Updated link. The previous video experienced an audio anomaly.
The Real Video of the Korg Pa5X (https://app.box.com/s/4ep9qznjgx4t80w35ooe9mily5mm9wgf)
-
Thanks for posting that, Keynote. I doubt that Korg produced that video. It's very amateurish, using one rhythm for the entire video. If it is authentic, it looks like someone recorded a teaser clip from Korg on their cell phone. Who knows?
So far, I don't see any great advantage over the current Genos. I suspect Genos 2 would blow that machine away. Can't wait to find out ;D!
-
Eileen,
If Yamaha thinks to make it Genos very compact for live performers, they will do without problem like this compact keyboard(see the picture). Yamaha is looking for customers requirements world wide. If Yamaha release Genos2 both versions 61 note compact and 76 note to satisfy all, then what is your objection ?
(http://)
Sunny
Maybe the next PSR xxx will look like that (including the faders and knobs)
;)
Joe H
-
Hi
When do you all think a new genos will arrive.
It seems there is no signals from Yamaha.
It is weird that it has been this long before announcing a new Genos
-
Hi
When do you all think a new genos will arrive.
It seems there is no signals from Yamaha.
It is weird that it has been this long before announcing a new Genos
Actually John, I think Yamaha has a history of releasing their new machines at the last minute. They may leak out small tidbits to key people, who then propagate that info to the masses. I also suspect Genos 2 will be late to the table due to Covid-related delays.
-
Anyway, the arrival of the PA5X will move something into Yamaha headquarter, I'm sure.
Francesco
Ya got that right!!! :) :)
-- pj
-
My (very personal!) point of view is: how much do we really need a Genos 2 and how much can be improved on the current one?
Before proceeding to create a new model, it would be interesting to know whether the current one has really been pushed to its limits.
Anyway, the arrival of the PA5X will move something into Yamaha headquarter, I'm sure.
Francesco
I don’t think people upgrading from the most recent model to the latest model is a significant sales driver. So Yamaha would not be thinking we have to have a Genos 2 with new features to tempt all the current Genos owners into upgrading. The main market for any new model is to remain competitive with alternatives and capture the new sales, ie buyers upgrading much older models, buyers moving from lower spec models, or moving from other brands, and of course buyers completely new to the arrranger market. This will be their focus. It’s also my understanding that they are having problems meeting existing demand for the Genos due to parts shortages etc. And they already have many relatively new products at lower costs like the DGX to offer …….so maybe little reason to hurry up a new TOTL model.
Mike
-
I'm not saying they won't ever offer 61 key flagship again, just that it's been more efficient for them not to. For now. Don't forget, by the time the next G2 launches? The PSRsx910 (or whatever they call it) will be for all intents and purposes a 61key Genos, just like the PSRsx900 is essentially a T5 (without the S.A2 sounds).
Mark
Mark, you are in the retail musical instrument business, so ………let’s imagine 100 arranger buyers come to your store, and you say this is the new Genos 2, wonderful keyboard, it has 61 keys, and costs $4000. So they say, great, but what’s that keyboard sitting next to it? Oh, that’s the same Genos 2 but it has 76 keys. How much does that cost they ask? Well it doesn’t really cost much different to make so it is $4000 as well you reply.
SO HOW MANY WOULD BUY THE 61 KEY VERSION???
I say one …. or less. Which is why Yamaha would never put you in such a stupid position.
So the next question is realistically how much cheaper would it have to be before a reasonable number say, well, actually I don’t really need 76 keys, so I’ll take the small one?
My guess is that it would be at least $500, but realistically maybe closer to $1000 less to move more than a small number of buyers.
So that then would be about the price range of an SX900!!!
Mike
-
Here's another video of the new Korg Pa5X. You'll need to watch till the end to get a glimpse of it. It's in the process of powering up but it's in a keyboard case so that makes me think it might also run on batteries but time will tell. PS: I linked to the YouTube vid in case some people are hesitant to open a Box.com link without knowing the contents. Cheers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDoUberqDHo
-
What a terrible Advertisement to put out.
-
Agreed, Eileen. There's no way in the world Korg would introduce a flagship arranger in such an unprofessional manner. It just goes to show you that any idiot can create and post stuff on the internet.
-
I remember someone posted a photo of the PSR SX900 here before it was released.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWb45Ggvkcs
-
Mark, you are in the retail musical instrument business, so ………let’s imagine 100 arranger buyers come to your store, and you say this is the new Genos 2, wonderful keyboard, it has 61 keys, and costs $4000. So they say, great, but what’s that keyboard sitting next to it? Oh, that’s the same Genos 2 but it has 76 keys. How much does that cost they ask? Well it doesn’t really cost much different to make so it is $4000 as well you reply.
SO HOW MANY WOULD BUY THE 61 KEY VERSION???
I say one …. or less. Which is why Yamaha would never put you in such a stupid position.
So the next question is realistically how much cheaper would it have to be before a reasonable number say, well, actually I don’t really need 76 keys, so I’ll take the small one?
My guess is that it would be at least $500, but realistically maybe closer to $1000 less to move more than a small number of buyers.
So that then would be about the price range of an SX900!!!
Mike
Yup, that's why I said it's more efficient (only 1 casing to manufacture & provide warranty support for). Like I said, when the Tyros 5 launched, and we were guessing numbers, I thought maybe 75% 76 key and 25% 61 key is what we would sell, but it ended up being even higher (>80%, if I recall). Which probably Yamaha found to be the case globally.
Even more telling, every time we get a used 76 key in, it's gone within weeks, whereas the 61's can easily take over a year to sell. Similarly, we sold 0 Pa4x61 after the initial preorder (basically since the PA1000 came out).
However the math isn't quite right; $1000 off a Genos doesn't make it PSRsx900 price range; more like 50%. The price diff would probably be similar the T561 vs T576 (which were separated by about $500) and you're right, most people won't bother with the 61 for that saving.
By the way, the Montage 88 vs the Montage 61 are $1100 difference in price; and *still* 80% of all our Montage sales are the 88.
Mark
-
Thanks Mark. This is why people saying “ lots of people want a 61 note Genos “ are ignoring reality and being misleading. When people say I would like a 61 note Genos, what they really mean is “I would like a much cheaper 61 note Genos.” Because as you have seen firsthand, pretty much no-one would pay the same - or even close to the same - for a smaller but otherwise identical keyboard.
Mike
-
Dear friends,
about future arrangers, Korg is starting to sell the new Pa5x. It will be available in 3 sizes: 61, 76 and 88 keys.
If you are interested to know more about it, below pls find the link to an Italian store, showing also prices. Sorry that it is in Italian, but one may easy translate trough Google.
https://casamusicalefabio.it/prodotto/korg-pa5x-keyboard/ (https://casamusicalefabio.it/prodotto/korg-pa5x-keyboard/)
I personally am enthusiastic about my Genos 76 keys, not missing at all my previous 61 keys arrangers. Genos is a real jewel in all senses.
Ciao,
Angelo
By the way, Angelo, the link you posted? they've now deleted Pa5x; it now brings up a Genos again.
Either way, we'll find out tomorrow at NAMM
-
Thanks Mark. This is why people saying “ lots of people want a 61 note Genos “ are ignoring reality and being misleading. When people say I would like a 61 note Genos, what they really mean is “I would like a much cheaper 61 note Genos.” Because as you have seen firsthand, pretty much no-one would pay the same - or even close to the same - for a smaller but otherwise identical keyboard.
Mike
Hi Mike, I disagree with your statement. You're basically saying, 'People say it's raining outside.. but they don't mean it's raining, but they'd rather see the sun shining..??'
Let me take myself as an example: if only a 76 key Genos2 appears, then I skip it and wait for the new SX-? range? If a 61 Genos2 comes on the market... it's for me ;-)) . I traded the T5-76 and Genos for an SX for a reason (my reason!). And that had nothing to do with money. And I expect that there are 'enough' who would also like a 61-er G2??
-
I agree with Ton.
I honestly can't see why everyone beats themselves up about 61 or 76 keys.
Some would like to buy a 61 Genos and, for them I hope Yamaha make one.
Others prefer the 76 Genos and that's fine too but, why should they make a big deal about Yamaha bringing back the 61 if they are happy with the 76.
Irrespective of the number of keys, I would like to see the Genos being made shorter i.e. less wasted space at both ends of the keyboard, in the same way as Ketron and Korg manage to do.
My feeling is that the Genos is too long but, otherwise offers most of what I want so I have to go with it.
At the end of the day, we have to buy what Yamaha produce (or go without) so, why analyse everyone's heads whilst we wait.
To add another view, If they were to shorten the Genos, I would also be happy enough with 73 keys (and shorten it further).
It would be nice if we could all have our personal wishes fulfilled but, in the real world, we must settle for what is offered.
-
Ton
Your analogy is way off the mark.
You and a few others may be exceptions, but my point, and Mark’s real life experience is that there are just not enough people like you who would buy a smaller but otherwise identical keyboard at the same price, or even close to the same price, to make it worth offering.
Duffy, we are not beating ourselves up, or making a big deal about whether Yamaha might or might not make a 61 note keyboard. Frankly it will make no difference to most of us whether they do or not. But there is a discussion here and some of us participating are saying what they would like to see, and others are pointing out reasons why it’s not likely to happen. That’s not unreasonable.
Didn’t you just do the same with your post?
Mike
-
I have merely stated my view regarding the next Genos and I don't pretend to know better than others, who would buy, 61 or 76 keys.
Having stated my personal view, I now leave it and not keep repeating it.
None of us know what's happening at Yamaha and I only know what I want and have no insight into the rest of the keyboard players fraternity.
I just hope everyone is happy with the new Genos when it appears.
-
The SX range is very good but it can never be a Genos in things like quality of key bed and all the other extra's it has.
I do not see why you would not want a 76 note if you had the chance. In all honesty
it is not much longer than Tyros 5 61 note. The extra notes make it much easier to set up a three way split for right hand voices as well as other things.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWb45Ggvkcs
I've looked carefully at this picture of the cardboard box. The letters "Genos 2-61" don't seem to fit the rest of the picture. The Yamaha box itself seems real and probably contains something else.
My conclusion is that the picture has been edited and therefore is fake.
Maarten
-
I know I am going off-topic with this.
Hi Keynote,
I've found another 19 seconds video of the Korg Pa5X on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6G0r4egg4Y), and after careful examination, I have to conclude that the video and Pa5X are real.
Cool to see that Korg have implemented the same small black-and-white OLED display near the faders as Yamaha did with the Genos. Except Korg placed it below the faders instead of above.
My guess is that it is either a pre-production model or one of the first production models. Comparable to the first leaked pictures of the SX900.
This means the Pa5X is currently being tested in the field, and not for sale yet. But it is coming...
Maarten
-
I think you are right Maarten, there is just too much smoke now for there to be no fire coming. And when it arrives I am sure it will have some neat features, but it won’t be revolutionary. Arranger technology development is now so advanced it’s hard to get step change.
And there’s a lot of brand loyalty in the arranger market. Not blind loyalty, but there is just such a learning curve when changing that most people won’t jump brands for just a few neat features.
But one thing I feel certain about ….. even if Korg decide to offer both 61 and 76 versions, it will be the larger that will dominate sales, because market experience clearly demonstrates that most TOTL keyboard buyers prefer more keys than less, providing it doesn’t make the keyboard too unwieldy or the price too high.
Mike
-
And if it is a real, not faked, vid... I like the 'drum'-pads at the right above a lot. And of course one photo of a Genos box ::) Oh, maybe it it a prototype of a box ;D
-
I think we have to wait to see the new keyboard:
https://youtu.be/gDiDUF0kNQw (https://youtu.be/gDiDUF0kNQw)
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWb45Ggvkcs
Finally my dream comes true what I am dream of because Yamaha Genos 2 with 61 keys.
Sunny
-
It’s the Korg that we thought might be real - not the Genos.
M8ke
-
Mike: yes, real world retail experience shows that 76 is more desirable than 61 when the price is around the same; but I didn't say 100% of customers purchased T5-76; it was over 80%.
Ton37: that means, they *could* make a 61, but it's more economically feasible to make just 1 version (twice the costs of molding, packaging, etc). That doesn't mean they *won't* make a 61 key version again. Just that at the moment it's more economically viable not to.
Having said that? No point arguing about it for now: NAMM 2022 starts today! And if Korg/Yamaha/Roland are going to unveil new keyboards, it'll be this weekend (and if they do, that usually means they won't be available for sale for a few months yet, but at least we'll know what's coming)
Mark
-
My decision-making on 61 notes is very similar to “ton37”. The SX 900 is a perfect fit for the moment. Rather than a 61-note Genos, I’d vote for a “SX Plus” if such is possible.
-
Just watched a fairly video of the Yamaha facility at NAMM. Reminds us just how massive they are in musical instruments because arrangers were a relatively small part of the display. Did not look like there's a Genos2 or any new TOTL arranger, because they still seemed to feature the existing Genos as the flagship arranger. Certainly no 61 note Genos.
Mike
-
I think we have to wait to see the new keyboard:
https://youtu.be/gDiDUF0kNQw (https://youtu.be/gDiDUF0kNQw)
Great catch!
At the above YouTube link you will find a placeholder by the Sud Claviers people for a live demo on June 30th, 2022 at 18:00 (6:00pm) Central European Time (CET).
The title is (translated from French by deepl.com/translator (https://www.deepl.com/translator)):
- "New keyboard arranger - Full presentation"
The video image itself says:
- "Preview - New keyboard arranger"
Below the to-be live stream it says:
- "We invite you to discover the long-awaited preview on June 30th.
A new generation of super-powerful keyboard arranger with new functions and limitless possibilities.
This live presentation will allow you to discover the instrument in detail, we hope to see you there."
Although Sud Claviers don't tell what brand and keyboard model they will show, I truly believe this will be the new Korg Pa5X. And based on Sud Claviers' track record, this demo will be great.
Maarten
-
Great news finally and hopefully something to look forward to ....
when will Pre ordering start is what I want to know ?
Thank you for the information.
-
Dnj - do you understand this demo date is for the Korg arranger not a Yamaha? As far as I am aware there is no indication at all of a new TOTL Yamaha arranger on the horizon.
Mike
-
Mike, I think you meant Dnj, not Paul ;)
But yeah, nothing at NAMM except PSRe473, new YDP. Which means nothing imminent, anyway.
-
Here is another playful thought, friends: If you open the Genos, there is much empty space inside it. So in Genos 2, put in some speakers, make it 61 notes and we have a Genos/SX900 in one. Or give the SX900 S.art functions. Merge the two, and get rid of one production line :)
-
Mike, I think you meant Dnj, not Paul ;)
But yeah, nothing at NAMM except PSRe473, new YDP. Which means nothing imminent, anyway.
Yes, you are right, that darn spell checker kept messing me up when I tried to write “dnj” until I forgot what I was doing 8)
Mike
-
Here is another playful thought, friends: If you open the Genos, there is much empty space inside it. So in Genos 2, put in some speakers, make it 61 notes and we have a Genos/SX900 in one. Or give the SX900 S.art functions. Merge the two, and get rid of one production line :)
Hi Toril
Hope you are happy and well.
If there is going to be a new Genos, putting speakers on it would cheapen it in my view.
We need more sample space/memory and better editing.
Genos speakers on keyboards are pretty tinny sounding as with the Genos Satallites and boom box.
With a £5000 keyboard arranger it deserves quality speakers.
All the Best
John
Ps, If Korg have something to shout about at the end of the month, i would take a bet that Yamaha are not far behind.
-
You can always put in high quality speakers, they do that in the top line CVPs, which sound great..But then it gets heavy for a portable instrument, maybe why they never put them in the original Tyros.
I think the main reason why Toril’s ideas would not work, is that Yamaha need some performance differentiation to keep pricing strategy right. A big attraction of the SX series is the much lower price point.
Mike
-
Dnj - do you understand this demo date is for the Korg arranger not a Yamaha? As far as I am aware there is no indication at all of a new TOTL Yamaha arranger on the horizon.
Mike
I am very well aware and sitting back waiting for anything arranger kb wise to come to market.
All else is rumor or fake news at this point. we'll see when it happens. 8)
-
Here is another playful thought, friends: If you open the Genos, there is much empty space inside it. So in Genos 2, put in some speakers, make it 61 notes and we have a Genos/SX900 in one. Or give the SX900 S.art functions. Merge the two, and get rid of one production line :)
Hi Toril --
Hope you're doing well!
Yep, Genos has a fair amount of air (space) inside. Looking at the Genos by my side, there isn't enough front panel space for top-firing speakers. By the looks of it, I don't think there would be an easy path to 61 keys, either, unless the buttons and/or screen are shrunk, too.
I plan to keep Genos v1 for a long time to come. More than good enough for what I do! :) What I really need is playing skill in a box. Haven't seen that at the store... :D
All the best -- pj
-
The big reasons for not seeing a Genos 2/3 maybe because of the microchip shortages and what is going on all over the place with costly written on it. :)
-
The big reasons for not seeing a Genos 2/3 maybe because of the microchip shortages and what is going on all over the place with costly written on it. :)
Ya got that right, mate! :) We're still feeling the effects of the pandemic slowdown and the fires that affected IC production. Asahi Kasei Microdevices (AKM), who make the DACs/ADCs in Yamaha keyboards, has been pretty quiet/secretive about the factory and future production:
https://www.strata-gee.com/akm-fire-update-co-makes-progress-interim-solution-shows-promise/
Given that NAMM 2022 saw fewer product announcements, I'm not expecting much of anything new in the near future. I'm content to play and experiment. :D
All the best -- pj
-
Wow.
All links collected in this thread that point to leaked footage of the Korg Pa5X, are no longer working (except one).
This confirms the reality of the new arranger, in my humble opinion.
June 30th we'll know for sure.
Maarten
-
All links collected in this thread that point to leaked footage of the Korg Pa5X, are no longer working (except one).
This one still works, and there should not be any more doubt about that the PAX5 is on the way when look at those pictures.
Too good shots to be fake.
Just scroll downwards the page.
http://vsti.pl/instrumenty-klawiszowe/21007-korg-pa5x-newsy,-wskaz%C3%B3wki,-zdj%C4%99cia,-informacje.html?start=112#25707 (http://vsti.pl/instrumenty-klawiszowe/21007-korg-pa5x-newsy,-wskaz%C3%B3wki,-zdj%C4%99cia,-informacje.html?start=112#25707)
Also this one is still working: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FcGfCm_RWTk (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FcGfCm_RWTk)
Copied the links from posts at Korg Forum.
Yes I know, this is a Yamaha place, but if Korg carry on develop and produce new TOTL arrangers, I think we may expect that Yamaha will pick up the glove to continue the competition. At least I hope so, because if the arranger market disappear like we could see the homeorgans did, it would be sad.
-
Home organs really didn’t disappear, they are still around, but the emergence of an overall similar, more versatile and cheaper keyboard. - the arranger - became the majority first choice. I think we are already seeing the TOTL arranger being put under pressure by keyboards almost as good at much lower prices. It might be that Yamaha is not too bothered by competition at the $4000 level from a new TOTL Korg. My guess is that they are more concerned about maintaining leadership of the market at the sub $2000 level, where I suspect most money is made. The Genos acts a bit like the Mercedes S class, not too many people will spend the money on it, but it maintains that brand leadership aura that lets Mercedes sell many, many more lower end models at a premium.
Mike
-
This one still works, and there should not be any more doubt about that the PAX5 is on the way when look at those pictures.
Too good shots to be fake.
Just scroll downwards the page.
http://vsti.pl/instrumenty-klawiszowe/21007-korg-pa5x-newsy,-wskaz%C3%B3wki,-zdj%C4%99cia,-informacje.html?start=112#25707 (http://vsti.pl/instrumenty-klawiszowe/21007-korg-pa5x-newsy,-wskaz%C3%B3wki,-zdj%C4%99cia,-informacje.html?start=112#25707)
Also this one is still working: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FcGfCm_RWTk (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FcGfCm_RWTk)
You're right, that *doesn't* look like a mockup. Guess we'll know June 30th! (which will then eventually force Yamaha to respond)
-
Maybe Korg visit the wish list posts on this site more than Yamaha do.
We might just end up with a good universally accepted arranger.
It might sound as though is not possible, but with a shrinking arranger market the only way to increase sales is to poach some loyal customers from competitors. So we should be flooding the Korg sites with our wish lists and hope Yamaha monitor the Korg forums.
Bill
-
Yes I know, this is a Yamaha place, but if Korg carry on develop and produce new TOTL arrangers, I think we may expect that Yamaha will pick up the glove to continue the competition. At least I hope so, because if the arranger market disappear like we could see the homeorgans did, it would be sad.
The arranger market isn't going away anytime soon. IMO particularly, the southeast Asia/overseas Asia demographic is keeping it alive. I've seen many own Tyros and PSR S models that are still in use today. They would still probably buy Yamaha given if they are to upgrade or replace a broken model because almost all of them use custom styles programmed for Yamaha keyboards. I would know because I'm one of them lol :P
-
Dear Mark,
last year in November I was in Naples (Italy) and had a nice tour of music shops, all concentrated in one road.
While I was in one of the shops (Miletti) incidentally I met two managers from Korg, doing a tour to visit their clients. We had a nice conversation, and at one point it came out that I used to have Korg flagships for about 20 years, but lately I turned to Yamaha with CVP Clavinova and Genos.
So he told me that in 2022 the new Korg flagship will be available, he did not know exactly when. It will be totally different compared with Pa4X, and much more powerful than Genos. He added that it will be available in various sizes, including for sure 61 and 76 keys.
We'll see.....
Ciao
Angelo
-
I will buy the best arranger for my music style. I don't care if it's made by Yamaha, Korg, or Santa Claus. It should be interesting to see if Korg has implemented most of the "wish list" items from the various Yamaha sites.
On the other hand, Yamaha may shock the Korg world in six months after they put the icing on Genos 2 and blow the PA5X out of the water. Either way, my wife is not anxious for me to put out more money on another piece of gear after parting with $3,000 for new speakers :D!
-
I don't believe it will be. And I Wonder, will there ever be a New Genos?
-
Lee, I doubt it will be 6 months, but maybe not as long as last time: PA4x launched in 2015 (May in Canada), the Genos followed 2.5 years later (in Canada, anyway... Dec 2017)
But I think it all depends on how much of a dent Korg makes first ;) so if the presumed Pa5x make a major dent in the arranger market, then you're right, it'll definitely be quicker than 2.5 years!
Mark
-
Good point, Mark. It seems we all go through this speculation curve after owning the arranger "de jour" for a few years, and then wait to see what tricks Yamaha has up its sleeve. So far, they've never disappointed!
-
From what i have read the Korg will be more powerful than the Genos
-
From what i have read the Korg will be more powerful than the Genos
For me the Korg always had better functions, like the possibility of creating sounds with articulations or the guitar mode to create guitar tracks, but I don’t like the sound quality, and for me all the Korg pa keyboards sounds the same.
-
Allow me to let go of my present thoughts on this a bit. A few points that come to my mind:
a. the target group: mostly seniors. This baby boom generation is dying out (sometime financially too). Young people generally choose other brands, or skip the phenomenon of 'keyboard arranger' and compose and play via software variants (soft-synthesizer software)
b. Every keyboard manufacturer has to be very innovative (means: put a lot of money into it) to be able to improve the current top keyboards a lot. For many, a 2nd hand Genos or SX still perfectly meets their needs (if a new one will come)
c. The prices for new generations of keyboards will be quite expensive in the current market environment. One question is whether the older senior still wants to afford that for x-years.
d. In the past, large companies have given up investing in their music/keyboard division (Technics for example?). As a company, Yamaha has many other products, of course. The keyboard division will be only a very small financial security. They can, if the management wants it, just stop developing a new keyboard. A specialist company (eg Korg) has even more reason to exist in this regard.
In other words: Yamaha/Genos can just be E.O.L??
Just my 2 cents ;-)
-
What is E.O.L? I wish people would type stuff out and stop assuming we all know these abbreviations >:(.
Yes, I'm a baby boomer who can still afford a new keyboard and am not too lazy to type out the whole sentence ;D!
-
I believe EOL means "end of life". End of the line, end of the road, that's all folks!
;)
Tom G.
-
Thanks Tom. Finally, someone who isn't too lazy to type the words!!
-
Ton - I dont believe that popularity of keyboard playing late in life has anything to do with the baby boomer generation. That’s just coincidence because The baby boomers just happen to be the group around when the technology became available at reasonable cost. I believe it is simply a senior thing and will continue to be popular. And seniors are a huge and constantly growing market segment, living longer and with more money than ever before. There is now more than 2 billion people in the world over 50 years old. It’s not a market that is dying, it can only grow. I don’t know why people keep posting that the demand for easy play keyboards will die out with the current seniors, there is zero evidence that is the case.
As for getting more expensive, also not the case. They are actually getting lower in cost relative to their capability. You might personally think that $4000 is a lot to spend on a TOTL arranger, but the mid level keyboards are now outstanding and at around $1500 not much more than an impulse buy for many of the younger seniors.
Mike
-
What is E.O.L? I wish people would type stuff out and stop assuming we all know these abbreviations >:(.
Yes, I'm a baby boomer who can still afford a new keyboard and am not too lazy to type out the whole sentence ;D!
OK, boomer, I Fr xcus, Ur right.. hate to C it ;D
Don't worry, I won't add any more nonsense to my post ;). I (and almost everyone) are just guessing. Only Yamaha knows (hopefully?).
One thing I still have to say.... like many here we have donated a considerable amount of capital to Yamaha by buying their keyboards, right? Then why does Yamaha not communicate with its customers, that is not much to ask? E.g. (for example) to those who have registered there kb (keyboard ;)) on Yamaha's account. Is that the 'arrogance' of power? For the rest I will stop speculating ... and leave it to future time ;-))
-
We have chosen to spend money on our Yamaha keyboards knowing them to be reliable with great after service. Others may choose to spend there money on other hobbies even Bingo. What ever you choose it will cost you money so why keep complaining about what is and what isn't. If you are enjoying using your choice then surely it is giving you your money's worth.
Speaking of keyboards I wonder how many actually use all the features we have at our finger tips and I don't mean with the aid of special programmes or computer devices. Just pure keyboard. I keep seeing all these requests for different things to be added but who will really use them.
Life is very short so enjoy what you have and let the future take its course.
-
We have chosen to spend money on our Yamaha keyboards knowing them to be reliable with great after service. Others may choose to spend there money on other hobbies even Bingo. What ever you choose it will cost you money so why keep complaining about what is and what isn't. If you are enjoying using your choice then surely it is giving you your money's worth.
Speaking of keyboards I wonder how many actually use all the features we have at our finger tips and I don't mean with the aid of special programmes or computer devices. Just pure keyboard. I keep seeing all these requests for different things to be added but who will really use them.
Life is very short so enjoy what you have and let the future take its course.
Plus one, you couldn't have said it any better.
-
….. like many here we have donated a considerable amount of capital to Yamaha by buying their keyboards, right? Then why does Yamaha not communicate with its customers, that is not much to ask? E.g. (for example) to those who have registered there kb (keyboard ;)) on Yamaha's account. Is that the 'arrogance' of power?
Cmon Ton, get real, you can’t really believe this. Like most people here you have probably “donated” considerably more capital to car companies, have they shared their future design plans with you? ;) ;D
Mike
-
No worries, Ton. You keep on speculating along with several other forum members. Meanwhile, I'll download a copy of the most recent urban dictionary with abbreviations and acronyms ;D!
With rumors of a new model, there's always been, and forever will be speculation on its design and new features. It's perfectly normal for people to say, "I hope they put this on the new one" or "I hope it can do this." It's like a little kid a few weeks before Christmas hoping he or she gets a certain toy. People are allowed to dream. In fact, I believe the best musicians are those who allow themselves to dream. What would have happened if Ray Charles, Stevie Wonder, and Ronnie Millsap decided they couldn't play piano because of their blindness handicap? There have been some tremendous artists who have improved our lives by overcoming their own incredible odds.
Requesting these extra features is a compliment to Yamaha. Inadvertently, we're saying, "Yamaha can do anything." New features can help expand the musical horizons of those who have the courage to try treading on undiscovered ground. The SA2 voices on the Genos have pushed me to learn how sax, trumpet, guitar, and string players handle their instruments. I got hired by a band because I brought the Genos to the stage with another band and just played the organ, piano, and e.piano voices. The other band's leader came over to me after our show and asked, "What other voices does that keyboard have?" I let him hear the demo tracks for the voices mentioned earlier. He nearly fainted. He also hired me on the spot.
The moral is, I can now play musical parts I was never good enough to play before moving from the T5 to the Genos. Do you get the point? With newer features and improved voices, those with the desire WILL become better players if they are willing to harness those extra features through their own, as of yet, undiscovered abilities. So don't tell people to settle with what they have.
I agree that adding new features to a keyboard will never be a substitute for hard work and a ton of practicing. Those who are happy with the current Genos may not have the need nor the desire to want anything else. That's fine but don't let that idea be the meter stick by which the rest of us measure our limitations. The more Yamaha listens to what we want in the Genos 2, the better players we can become. We'll certainly remain loyal customers and not wander over to Korg or someone else.
-
A forum like this is a focal point for arranger enthusiasts, so we will always see these wish lists of sometimes quite esoteric features.
However, I also think it might be misleading about what is actually happening in the market place. There will be flagship arrangers for some time, and they will incorporate some of those dream features as Lee says.
But as I have said before, I think the bulk of arranger buyers just want to be able to play 'Moon River ' and sound decent, and have little interest in many of these advanced workstation type features. More and more decent quality, but simpler, and lower cost keyboards are becoming available that address this demand, and incorporate the latest easy play and accompaniment technology - without all the frills.
For me the DGX 670 is a perfect example. It has a full 88 piano keyboard, and most of the current arranger technology, or at least the parts that most people need. And costs less than $1000. The SX700 another example, cheap, easily portable, fits in a bedroom and does most things average buyers need.
I suspect this is becoming much more important to Yamaha and other manufacturers than the flagship, all singing, all dancing keyboard that Genos represents. They might sell ten or more of these to every one Genos in the future. In a way you could say that these will do to Genos type keyboards what the original PSRs did to the home organ market.
So while I think its likely that a new Korg flagship is about to appear, its also possible that Yamaha will be saying ... so what....
Mike
-
Excellent points, Mike. To your thoughts, we may see more of a Genos "meant for geeks" in the next release, while the real bread and butter to Yamaha will remain the lesser keyboards for the Moon River players, as you wrote - great analogy.
I managed a Radio Shack store back in the early 70s. Their business philosophy was to sell bits and pieces like resisters, tubes, cables, etc...to cover the basic overhead. The profit margins were generated by the sale of the larger stuff. Sound familiar?
-
I do think it possible that we will see another flag ship but not because Korg have just released one. Again what will be will be.
-
Cmon Ton, get real, you can’t really believe this. Like most people here you have probably “donated” considerably more capital to car companies, have they shared their future design plans with you? ;) ;D
Mike
As I was quoted I will give a short reaction: Hi Mike, I also know how 'big' companies behave... but I don't have to agree with that way of dealing with the customer! I would rather see them better inform their customer about possible future products. I'm aware that it may be a voice crying in the wilderness ;) ? I advocate the more 'asertive' consumer than the 'following' consumer. That's what I meant by my comment... 8)
Btw.. I like to read comments and points of view, even if they are not always mine. I have no problem with that, just fooling around every now and then, keeps the mind sharp ;-) And aside, on this forum there is always polite and reasoned discussion in a decent way! Thnx. to all contributers!! 8)
-
Ton - I spent my working life largely on the other side of this, being the person setting and implementing development strategy for large corporations. It’s not arrogance or power mongering that dictates the need for keeping info tight. It’s just common sense. Customers are not bound by confidentiality agreements so everything you discuss with them is the same as telling your competitors what you are planning. That’s typically a bad idea in a technology business.
Mike
-
Hi
I reckon Eileen is an secret agent for Yamaha and if Eileen thinks it is possible, ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I say there is no smoke without a fire :P
I am now waiting for a clip around the Lug Holes ::) :-[
-
Hello to all.
Generally Eileen doesn't say such kind of things.... And I seem to remember Eileen was also more positive for a new flagship release before the Genos was really released ...
So, a little bit of hope?
Regards
Soundphase.
-
I am just voicing an opinion because in all honesty I can't see Yamaha just stopping producing Flag ship arrangers.