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Yamaha Keyboards (4 Boards) => Yamaha Keyboards - General => Topic started by: Keyboard Master on July 14, 2021, 10:42:11 AM

Title: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on July 14, 2021, 10:42:11 AM
I’m just following up with it. I see it’s taking them awhile. I believe there putting a lot more features. IMO. I’m just curious 🧐
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on July 17, 2021, 07:36:26 PM
Every time I search it I only see the E463. I’m guessing it’s in development at this point.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on July 21, 2021, 01:53:10 AM
Hi guys back to this topic for the e473 here’s a video from Gearfacts https://youtu.be/4HsXp848WZo
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on July 22, 2021, 03:28:00 AM
Based on this infomation we cab guess/predict when it might be released. PSR-E203 (15 November 2004)
PSR-E213 (11 October 2006)
PSR-E223 (30 June 2008)
PSR-E233 (26 August 2010)
PSR-E243 (28 June 2012)
PSR-E253 (1 January 2014)
PSR-E263 (29 March 2016)
PSR-E273 (1 January 2020)
PSR-E303 (15 November 2004)
PSR-E313 (21 August 2006)
PSR-E323 (30 June 2008)
PSR-E333 (6 August 2010)
PSR-E343 (28 June 2012)
PSR-E353 (29 September 2014)
PSR-E363 (31 August 2016)
PSR-E373 (26 February 2020)
PSR-E403 (17 November 2005)
PSR-E413 (10 October 2007)
PSR-E423 (1 May 2009, with touch response)
PSR-E433 (28 December 2011)
PSR-E443 (2 September 2013)
PSR-E453 / PSR-EW400 (17 September 2015, Stadium Rock is first style, SurfRock, BeachRock, CanadianRock, ChartPianoPop, 70sRock added in 8Beat, New Style Collection is Movie & Show and 38 styles including WildWest, Showtune and TapDanceSwing, etc. in Movie & Show and Another Style collection is Entertainer and 34 styles in Entertainer)
PSR-E463 / PSR-EW410 (17 April 2017, 758 high quality voices with 1 sample voice for sampling, 235 styles, 30 built in songs, 10 user songs, 8 banks with 4 registrations, and groove generator) The EW410 offers 76 keys and features phono jacks for connecting external powered speakers. The E463 has 61 keys.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: SciNote on July 22, 2021, 04:36:02 AM
I'm not so sure about those dates above -- they seem to be about a year early for the PSR-E400 series, at least for the more recent ones.  I recall the PSR-E433 being released in 2012, the E443 in 2014, the E453 in 2016, and the E463 in 2018 -- unless countries outside the US got these models earlier.

But otherwise, these keyboards have been released like clockwork, every 2 years.  So, we would have expected the E473 last year, in 2020.  Okay, so Covid-19 has caused delays, but it's now well into 2021, and still nothing.  It seems like the cel phone companies seem to get their new models out, no matter what.  What's taking Yamaha so long with the E473?  I was hoping maybe something would've come out at the Summer NAMM show, but nope.  Not even a press release.

The video linked above is interesting, but just speculation.  I could speculate that it will have a thousand voices, 256 note polyphony, and 128 registrations -- but it would all be wishful thinking.  I'd like to see some real manufacturer information about this model at some point!
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on July 22, 2021, 06:13:45 AM
Yes I totally Agree. We will see whenever yamaha brings it out. what it would actully look like.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on July 24, 2021, 09:38:23 PM
One thing I hope that they do is add two more knobs to make it look more advanced. And fun 🤩
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on August 08, 2021, 12:14:10 AM
Hi everyone hears my Google search results I keep trying to find out if Yamaha leaked an image https://www.google.com/search?q=yamaha+psr+e473&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS599US599&hl=en-US&prmd=svin&sxsrf=ALeKk03R9cSk2g4A1msrbojNbdlvVC2LzA:1628377587593&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiQgaydg6DyAhXIKs0KHVx2BP4Q_AUoA3oECAIQAw&biw=414&bih=724&dpr=3
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on August 12, 2021, 06:55:22 PM
Okay, so Covid-19 has caused delays, but it's now well into 2021, and still nothing.

Hi Bob --

I started speculating about all of this myself. The only thing I could conclude -- the E473 sound set will probably be a superset of the E373 (which was a nice upgrade at that price point).

COVID-related supply chain and shipping problems continue. I live near Puget Sound and the Seattle, Tacoma and Everett ports are chockfull of container ships. The ships are literally parked in the sound and are making so much noise at idle that nearby residents are complaining about the noise at night!

Another factor is the fire at the Asahi Kasei (AKM) semiconductor plant. The AKM plant made the digital-to-analog converters (DACs) and ADCs for Yamaha and many other vendors. This was the only AKM plant making DACs and ADCs. The Japanese police and fire authorities have only recently allowed AKM to begin clean-up. AKM has tried to shift production elsewhere as a stop-gap.

Many Yamaha digital musical instruments use AKM components, including E4xx models. Folks at YamahaSynth are complaining about delays and product unavailability, too.

Seems like a bad time to launch a new product and create demand that cannot be fulfilled...

Watch, Yamaha will make a monkey of me and announce it tomorrow.  :)

-- pj
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on August 12, 2021, 07:07:02 PM
Sooooooooo, let's really speculate.  :)

I saw some recent import/export data between India and Japan. The Yamaha PSS series is manufactured in India at Yamaha's Chennai OneHub plant. The number of export units is consistent with a shipping product (1000s of units). In addition to PSS, the Chennai plant manufactures the I500 for the Indian market.

Lo and behold, in the midst of PSS models, there are a few small shipments of PSR-E473. By "small," I mean 15 total units -- maybe prototypes, maybe pre-announcement demo units. Maybe, maybe, maybe.

Here's a totally wild speculation -- the 76 key sister will be called "PSR-EW425".

Well, now I've put my foot in it -- pj   :)

P.S. At least we'll see how fast Internet rumors travel.  ::)  I deny everything.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: SciNote on August 12, 2021, 08:04:30 PM
Yes, you are correct about the shipping delays.  I have read about the closed plants and chip shortages, and yes, this is all even affecting the production of the ever-important and "all mighty" smartphone.

But what you're saying about the 15 PSR-E473s is starting to get interesting.  Even if we don't get the product for a little while, it will be nice to at least see some specs soon.

I would've thought that the sister 76-key unit would be called the PSR-EW420, but who knows?  Why did Yamaha skip over PSR-A4000 to call their new Asian-based keyboard the PSR-A5000?  Who knows why Yamaha numbers products the way they do?  In fact, why do the PSR-E series keyboards (not the EW) all end with a 3?  What does that mean?
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on August 14, 2021, 11:44:52 PM
Good point too. And if Yamaha already made a few Psr e473’s they should release pictures to see what it looks like. I’m pretty sure it already exists but Yamaha hasn’t released pictures of it yet.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on August 16, 2021, 05:49:12 PM
Good point too. And if Yamaha already made a few Psr e473’s they should release pictures to see what it looks like. I’m pretty sure it already exists but Yamaha hasn’t released pictures of it yet.

Hi --

Yamaha (or any other manufacturer) never release pictures until the actual product launch. If customers know that a new replacement product is on the way, it would kill sales of the current product. Distributors and retail stores have inventory to sell off and Yamaha doesn't want to make them angry.

Sad to say, but that's the way it is -- pj
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on August 16, 2021, 06:05:44 PM
Based on all replies I found this Picture of the EW425

That's a nice find! Thank you! I found the original source, too, and I think this picture is legit.

Specs, of course, are completely unknown. It looks like they redesigned the front panel. My first thought was "That's looks quite professional," not just a home keyboard. The live control knobs are re-located to the upper left. That decision will be controversial! The lighted buttons look nice (light blue color) and the screen is black and white monochrome. Still only four registrations per bank.

The keypad to the right has been significantly redesigned. It selects voices and styles by category.

Well, who knows? Yamaha has been so slow to roll out the new models; they might have changed everything by now.

BTW, OneHub Chennai is the newest Yamaha factory, so there may be manufacturing and test set-up delays as well as supply chain delays due to the AKM fire.

Speculate away!!!  :D

Thanks, again -- pj

[Update: Apparently, Yamaha are peeved. I have self-censored this message.]
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: SciNote on August 16, 2021, 08:56:13 PM
Very nice find!  Yep, I also notice that there are still 4 registration buttons per bank.  The question is, did they increase the number of banks?  At least using "0" and "9" for bank numbers?

I also saw those relocated live-control knobs.  Not sure how I feel about that, but I'm leaning toward a thumbs down.  On the one hand (pun not intended), I can see how the new location makes it easier to use your right hand to make adjustments while holding down left-hand chords (or playing anything with your left hand).  But sometimes, I actually use some of my left hand fingers to reach over and tweak the knobs to change the sound while still holding down some keys with other fingers on my left hand (generally using one finger to rub against the side of the knob and move the knob while moving my finger).  This will not be possible with this new set-up.  Admittedly, I do not do this too much.

As for now using sound categories to select sounds, I realize that's how all the "big boys" do it, but I've always liked being able to just punch in a number to get to a particular sound.  And in either case, all of the similar sounds are grouped together, so once you're in a particular group, you can just step through the sounds one by one if you're searching for a particular sound.  However, I wonder if the "panel voices" and XG-Lite voices will all be grouped together, by category, now?  Then again, as I took another look at the photo, I see that each of those category buttons have a white square block next to them, and that there is also a button labeled "enter".  Maybe these category buttons can also be numeric buttons, as well.  That would be the best of both worlds!

I do also see that it appears that the style control and sequencer appear to have the same number of buttons as before, so there may not be much change there.  But then again, there is a big white button to the left of what I believe are the style control buttons.  If that big white button is a style start/stop button, then that would be a 7th button, and would imply an extra button.  Maybe a dedicated fill-in button that doesn't change the A/B pattern?  That would be nice!
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on August 16, 2021, 10:47:22 PM
Looking at the picture, again, Yamaha did majorly swizzle around a bunch of front panel controls with respect to the E463.

The quadrant to the right of the display has a 3x4 button matrix for voice and style categories. The buttons above the data wheel control selection mode: voice and style. I wonder if one of the mode buttons turns the matrix into a numeric keypad? The FUNCTION and PORTABLE GRAND buttons are below the matrix.

The control groups running above the keyboard are (left to right): master volume, SONG/STYLE control, TRACK control, registration memory, and quick sampling.

Quick sampling got more real estate. Quick sampling has several buttons: LOOP HOLD, A, B, C, D, and CAPTURE. I wonder if it's possible to capture four waveforms? Did Yamaha re-think sample control including sample zones? Do the lighted A, B, C, D buttons reflect sample status like a pad controller? Can we play the pads? Are they velocity sensitive?

The live control knobs are further away from the keyboard in the quadrant to the left of the display. I can't tell if there is an additional row or not. E463 has five live control rows; EW425 has 6 or 7?

The rest of the buttons in the upper left quadrant must be record, metronome, tap tempo, melody suppressor, voice control and all that miscellaneous stuff. I can't make out any of the legends.

Yamaha is still using an LCD with pre-defined, fixed legends. Do they really save that much money versus a full graphic, pixel addressable display? What do I know?  :-\ Probably simplifies the software, but it seems so 90s.

Should be interesting finally to see the specs, not just guess.  :o

All the best -- pj

Music tech blog: http://sandsoftwaresound.net/
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on August 17, 2021, 07:45:08 AM
Yes exactly. And I’m excited to at least see what the new models will look like. I still not sure if they added a voice Demo Button. Because to my knowledge if Yamaha added a voice demo button it would allow players to hear a demo of the selected voice.😎😁
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: SciNote on August 17, 2021, 10:32:00 AM
A few more thoughts...

Where the style control section is, it does look like the right-most button is labeled start/stop, so I don't know what that big white buttons is to the left of the style controls.  But if there are only six style control buttons, then I'm thinking we're still not getting a dedicated drum-fill button.

There appears to be 7 lines of text by the live-control knobs, so that implies quite a bit more functionality for those controls.  Unless they got rid of the "destination" control -- where you'd select whether you want to modify the voices or the style, and then some of the knob features (filter, reverb, chorus, etc.) would modify the sound destination (voices or style) you select.  Maybe they incorporated all of that functionality into direct selections of the main knob-assign button, instead of having a separate destination mode button.

What do you suppose that button is right above the "D" button of the quick-sampling pads?  It looks like it's labeled "alpha boost" or "mega boost" or something like that.

As I think about it more, I really hope they did not completely ditch the numeric keypad, because that will make it more inconvenient to select registration banks.  Right now, we can quickly push the bank select button, then a numeric key, to get to a whole new bank of sounds in just 2 key-strokes -- something that is quite handy if you want to do this while playing a song.  If we now have to hit the bank select button, then carefully turn the data wheel or repeatedly hit a plus or minus button to get to the bank we want, then that is a step backwards.

And I agree that a manufacturer won't want to give away too much information on an upcoming model while retailers still have the old model in stock, but this case is a little different.  People who just want to buy a relatively inexpensive keyboard for themselves or their kid probably aren't following the progression and introduction of new models that closely and will just buy whatever sounds good at a good price.  But the people who do follow the progression of the models, like us, know very well that Yamaha is quite overdue for the replacement to the E463 and EW410, so I would guess that many of us who would be in the market have been waiting to learn more about the new models before purchasing, anyway.  So, what will happen is what always happens -- the older models get discounted, giving people an incentive to buy the older model if they don't really need all the features of the new model, which will be considerably more expensive.

Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on August 17, 2021, 06:04:13 PM
I agree too. And since I found a more believable picture I see it gaining attention. Which means we know that The PSR-E473/EW425 are on the way. I’ll be excited to test them out.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on August 18, 2021, 06:36:14 PM
but this case is a little different. 

I mean this somewhat humorously, but that's a little too nuanced for marketing managers, store owners and lawyers.  :) I expect the dealership agreement to cover old inventory in the face of a new product launch. Likely, there are dealer givebacks, etc. and Yamaha eats the price cut. Yamaha also has other tools like Sales Promotion Incentive Fund (SPIF) to move selected inventory. The lawyers probably have everything locked up!  ::)

If Yamaha can settle supply chain issues, we might hear soon. They wouldn't want to miss the holiday selling season.

Thanks for all the comments -- pj
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on August 21, 2021, 06:23:32 AM
Sooooooooo, let's really speculate.  :)

I saw some recent import/export data between India and Japan. The Yamaha PSS series is manufactured in India at Yamaha's Chennai OneHub plant. The number of export units is consistent with a shipping product (1000s of units). In addition to PSS, the Chennai plant manufactures the I500 for the Indian market.

Lo and behold, in the midst of PSS models, there are a few small shipments of PSR-E473. By "small," I mean 15 total units -- maybe prototypes, maybe pre-announcement demo units. Maybe, maybe, maybe.

Here's a totally wild speculation -- the 76 key sister will be called "PSR-EW425".

Well, now I've put my foot in it -- pj   :)

P.S. At least we'll see how fast Internet rumors travel.  ::)  I deny everything.
Hi PJ,

I am dead curious. Where on Earth did you find this information?

I find this very strange that Keyboardmaster brings back this topic of the E473/EW425, that at the same time you mention this import/export data (whatever this means) and that Keyboardmaster finds so conveniently a leaked picture of the EW425.

Hi guys, doesn’t all this remind you of the launching of the Genos?

I bet that there are malicious people out there at Yamaha’s Sales department and that whatever leaks appears, is totally intentional and programmed.

As for the launching year, I think that the main reason for the delay is the launch of the E373/EW310. Yamaha wants to sell as many of these before launching the E473/EW325. Well I was myself tempted of buying one unit, which I certainly won’t do if the launch of the E473 is programmed…

Did I hear somebody say “Winter NAMM”…?

Or “Christmas” maybe…?  ;D

Well you see the line…

Happy speculation everyone  8)

Vinciane
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on August 21, 2021, 06:40:02 AM
Another comment in passing:

Of course the screen is still an old-fashioned one. A modern graphic screen would throw a shadow on the PSR SX600.

Vinciane
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on August 21, 2021, 06:32:08 PM
Hello Vinciane --

The source is definitely not Yamaha itself. I honestly don't buy into the "Yamaha leaks" conspiracy theory. They are the most secretive company on Earth (well, maybe not as secretive as Sony...  :) ) Leaks create too much disinformation that they need to counter. When they launch, they launch.

I'm still going with supply chain problems (AKM chip shortage) and production ramp up at the new Chennai plant.

Yamaha's entry-level is the Classic 3 tier "marketing sandwich". Low end for the price conscious, high end for the feature nuts (errrr, enthusiasts) and a middle for those who want to feel "just right." Yamaha usually rolls out the high end first since that offering usually has the widest profit margin.

If Yamaha rolls out the middle before the high end, they cut into high end, higher margin sales.

I'll be curious to see the date on the MIDI implementation chart. That usually gives a clue to the actual development freeze date.

Hope you're doing well and good to hear from ya -- pj
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on August 21, 2021, 11:37:22 PM
I agree too. I know once launched it becomes a fast seller. But after it launches Yamaha will probably lower the price of the remaining e463s and ew410s. Now that a picture leaked this means that Yamaha will launch it very possibley by next month.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Roger Brenizer on August 28, 2021, 12:06:42 AM
Hi Keyboard Master,

I have removed your post in Reply #12 above, dated August 15, 2021, due to a Copyright violation notification I received from Yamaha today.  The notification follows, in RED:

Dear PSR Tutorial Forum, 

Pursuant to the Terms and Policies posted on PSR Tutorial Forum’s website, users “agree not to post any copyrighted material unless you own the copyright or you have written consent from the owner of the copyrighted material.”   Please be advised that “Keyboard Master” has posted copyrighted material owned by Yamaha.  “Keyboard Master” has not obtained permission from Yamaha to use or post this copyrighted image.  This serves as notice to PSR Tutorial Forum to remove the copyrighted image posted on its website.   

Thank you in advance,

Yamaha Brand Protection


Please refrain from such practice in the future.  Further violations of our forum rules could result in you being banned from our forum.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on August 28, 2021, 07:42:45 PM
Oh wow I didn’t know that. Thanks for the reminder.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on September 13, 2021, 10:33:18 PM
Hi everyone back to this topic. Any news from  Yamaha yet I’m still following up for the new Psr e473/ew425
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: SciNote on September 15, 2021, 05:56:44 AM
None that I know of.  Still looks like they're dragging their feet against the ground hard enough to dig gorges that rival the Grand Canyon.

I'm sorry if that sounds negative, but they are a year and a half beyond when we would have expected the E473.  Yes, there have been unprecedented situations, such as Covid-19 and the fire at the chip plant.  But in my opinion, this is when Yamaha should be supporting their loyal customers by bringing us some official information, so that they would not have to get so upset about an image floating around on the internet.

Would this possibly eat into E463 sales?  Maybe, but as I've said before, I don't think it would be that dramatic.  People who are just looking for something of good quality at a good price for their kid or to learn to play keyboard themselves are not going to be overly concerned about getting the latest model.  And those of us who are familiar with Yamaha's previous product cycle and have more dedication to this product line will continue to wait to see what the E473 is like before we make a discretionary purchase for a new keyboard.

This is not unheard of in the business world.  As the launch date for the new version of a car approaches, more and more details about the new model get released or dug up and published in the automotive media.

The fact is, when it comes to keyboards like this, Yamaha is second to none.  Look at the list of my present and previously owned keyboards, and you can see that I am no stranger to Yamaha keyboards.  What is the competition?  Casio?  Good sound with lots of features, but with a user interface with a steep learning curve and (in my opinion) a very inferior keyboard feel.  In fact, I recently saw their flagship (among portable keyboards) CT-X5000 in a store, and the keyboard felt and sounded like a $50 toy (when I say "sounded", I mean the plasticy sound of the keys themselves, not the tone generation circuitry).  You could say that it was due to being a display model with dozens of people messing with it over time, but I don't see that kind of key-feel degradation on the display models of Yamaha keyboards.  And I know there are similarly priced models from Roland and Korg, but I have yet to see one in person, and from what I've read, they generally don't have the sound shaping capabilities (like filter and envelope) and long list of features that the Yamaha keyboards have -- though someone correct me if I'm wrong.

So, we'll see what it is eventually.  Will it be essentially just an E463 with S.Art Lite and additional DSP effects?  If so, it will be a hard sell for me -- especially if they don't improve the keyboard feel from that of the E463.  Or, will we see some genuine innovation?
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on September 15, 2021, 08:19:47 AM
Oh I see. I agree too. Just lots of stuff going on causing the delay. I believe it be available whithin the next few months.😎😁
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on September 29, 2021, 04:23:37 AM
Hi everyone back on this topic once again. I’m curious if anyone has access to the data list of the upcoming psr e473/ew425. So we can see the Voice and style list.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Piano Tone on October 12, 2021, 08:03:12 PM
Hoping to see the 473/425 released soon; I'm holding off on the purchase of a Korg EK-50 in hopes of full keyboard chord detection (so surprised that's not included on the existing models) and hopefully less menu deep diving for common settings like on the 373/310/463/410.   
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on October 13, 2021, 07:20:25 AM
Me Too. I have a feeling any day now.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Piano Tone on October 14, 2021, 06:23:54 PM
I wish I had checked this thread when the picture in question was up . . . I missed it lol
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Piano Tone on October 22, 2021, 09:59:06 PM
Ok, Yamaha - times up.  My Korg EK-50 is on the way.  (I highly doubt that the 473/425 would have had full keyboard chord recognition as well as vastly reduced menu deep diving anyways . . . (of course this means it will be announced in days and will . . . ;)
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on November 01, 2021, 07:46:04 AM
Agreed. And It/s November Now so Any day Yamaha should Launch them. ;)
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: SciNote on November 01, 2021, 08:48:44 PM
I'm thinking that, since it is November and we still don't have the E473/EW425 yet, that we won't see them until the spring.  Usually, I remember new models coming out around October or earlier to sell in quantity in time for the Christmas season.

Piano Tone, let us know how your Korg is, especially in terms of sound creation and manipulation, such as filter, envelope generator, and DSP effects.  I know this is a Yamaha forum, but when Yamaha just jams the brakes for new product development in this category, won't give us any updates or details about the upcoming product, and gets bent out of shape about one photo floating on the Internet, then maybe it is time to start considering alternatives for the future.  I would prefer to stay with Yamaha, as they have produced great products.  But as my current keyboard is getting kind of old, I know I may need to replace it someday, and the existing line-up just doesn't excite me that much, unless I spend much more money for an EX600.

We understand that there is a lot going on right now, with the pandemic, shipping delays, and the fire at the microchip plant.  But this would be a great opportunity for Yamaha to support it's loyal customers by providing some information on the upcoming products -- because of these delays -- so that we can know what to do for the future.  Maybe this would cost Yamaha some lost sales in the current model line, but considering all of the other arrangers, synths, and pianos they make, not to mention all of the other types of musical instruments -- and let's not forget about the motorcycles and related products -- this would be a very small part of their overall revenue.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Toril S on November 02, 2021, 12:22:30 AM
When Korg keyboards can be on this forum, Yamaha mtorbikes can too😀😀😀🎹🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🚔
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: tbaroghel on November 02, 2021, 04:12:03 PM
I did have a Korg EK-50 for a few weeks and returned it to Thomann in favor of my PSR.

I was very happy with the price, the keybed, the sounds, the effects, the amp  and the styles !

I was very disappointed though with style management (the lack of it, to be honest) as their USB stick method is completely medieval. You want to spend time playing, not managing files transfer.

Above all, the lack of a user community like this very forum was instrumental (I like this word given the context) in my decision.

As for a second keyboard (for the holiday/weekend house in Normandy), I will consider the 473 when it is out, but also the MEDELI AKX-10. Here is hoping both hit the market soon.

Thierry

Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: SciNote on November 03, 2021, 07:02:46 AM
Yeah, I took a closer look at the online manual for that EK-50.  At first glance, it doesn't really look like it has much when you look at the control panel.  But there is a lot of good stuff there: the ability to layer 3 voices on the right side of the keyboard, roughly 150 different effects (and it appears to have the ability to layer two effects at once, independently on the right and left sides of a split keyboard), as well as hundreds of sounds and styles.

But there are some questions that either were not answered in the manual, or I just did not look deep enough to find those answers.  For example, you can layer 3 sounds on the right hand side, but can you adjust the volume of each sound independently?  And I saw where you can change the octave of the sound, but again, can the octave be set for each of the 3 layered sounds independently?  If not, then this is a serious shortcoming.  The keyboard does have some kind of recording function, but is it multi-tracking, like on the Yamaha E400 series keyboards (at least the E433 on up)?  On the Yamaha, we can record 5 independent tracks -- each containing 2 layered sounds (main and dual voice), along with a 6th accompaniment/rhythm track.  I am not sure about the recording capabilities of the EK-50, but my hunch, based on the online manual and specs I saw on Sweetwater.com, is that it can record 4 "melody" parts, and can include 8 accompaniment parts, which would likely be based on the style selected and not freely editable -- kind of like what our Yamahas record on the accompaniment track.  It is also not clear to me if the 4 melody tracks can each have up to 3 layered sounds, or if these tracks can be only one sound each.  I know on many of the Casios, they say they have a "17 track" sequencer, but only one of the tracks can include layered sounds, while all the rest can only be a single sound/voice.

There does seem to be some ability to modify the styles, and it may even be to possible load additional voices.

And there does appear to be 40 of what we call registrations (they call them "keyboard sets"), set up as 10 banks of 4, but it is not clear whether the rhythm/style can be "frozen" so that you can change the keyboard set during a song, to get a different sound, without changing the background rhythm or style at the same time.  And I saw no mention of any kind of synth functions, like filter, envelope generator, or portamento.

Please keep in mind that I have zero firsthand experience with this keyboard, and I got all of this info online, so if anyone who has had or does have this keyboard wants to correct me, certainly please do so.  This means, of course, that I also have no idea as to how good the key feel of the keyboard is.

I currently see this keyboard on Sweetwater.com for about $550 US, and there is a Korg EK-50L, which has more onboard amp/speaker power and additional sounds, for $100 more.  That's getting up there, and into the territory of something like, say, a gently used PSR-S670.  There seems to be a lot there, but at this point, not enough that would make me want to jump off the Yamaha ship.

Finally, again, I realize this is PSRTutorial, and not KORGTutorial, so I apologize if I'm stepping over the line.  But I do feel it is good to discuss what the competition offers, especially as we are all waiting for our updated models, so we can all make informed buying decisions, and perhaps also to discuss what features are important so that Yamaha can consider implementing them into their own future keyboards.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Piano Tone on November 08, 2021, 11:38:39 PM
Had my EK-50 for a few weeks and absolutely love it.  Has the best user interface I've ever seen on a keyboard or digital piano, and no menu deep diving whatsoever on an arranger keyboard (at least to me and in this price range) is unheard of.  Virtually everything you would ever need to do on the fly (add/remove layers, adjust relative layer volumes, mute/enable style parts, adjust relative part volumes, transpose +/-, octave shift +/-) is all quickly and easily available on the control panel.  I had a PSR E373 and the UI for that (in my opinion) was frustrating - you had to menu deep dive to do SO many common basic things (octave shift, adjust relative layer volumes etc). 

The USB drive will not only play wav but also mp3, and the filenames are visible on the display (which also has tons of useful info) - and you can easily adjust the incoming volume of a backing track on the fly which is super useful - I've had and have other boards where backing tracks from my iPad will distort when streamed in to a keyboard.  And the speakers are great, the piano patch is bright and clear and perfect for cutting through a mix.  I can't speak to using the USB for style transfers or anything like that (not my thing), but I love this keyboard.  Also has true full size keys (165mm octave width; almost all synth action boards say "full size" but are 159-160mm which many dont notice or care about, but being used to a digital piano with actual full size keys I definitely notice. 

I did a prelim review on my channel if you want to check it out:   https://youtu.be/X59R-PWCoDg
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on November 09, 2021, 04:29:51 AM
Hi to all,

A person who wishes to remain anonymous for disclosure issues but who I have reasons to believe is well-informed seems to think the E473 will hit the shelves sometime around next February. Nice, I also have my birthday at that time  8)

As long as the discussion goes off brand, I’d like to speak a bit about Casio here even though I am a hardcore Yamaha fan. I had a Casio CT-X3000 for a few weeks when it was released in 2018 and I just loved the sounds, the styles and the editing possibilities, including the DSPs. Eventually I sent it back because of its cumbersome user interface (to say the least). I then bought the CT-X800 which I still have. Much simpler to use but much less power and a disastrous keybed (the keybed of the 3000 was a joy to play, on par with that of pro synths).

Now they released the CT-S400, which is kind of their version of our PSR E373. Simple board, well designed, intuitive interface, same sound engine as the CT-X700/800, better keybed and some of the flaws corrected (such as this ridiculous issue of being unable to adjust the relative volume levels of the different voices on the CT-X800). The CT-S400 can now adjust volume levels, panning of all three voices, the arpeggiator can be assigned to any of the voices, you’ve got optional Bluetooth connectivity, etc. There is even a copy/paste function in the 6 tracks sequencer, which is completely unheard of in this price segment.

So while awaiting our beloved PSR E473, I also strongly hope that Casio will release a CT-S keyboard with the possibilities of the CT-X3000 but with the strengths and ease of use of the CT-S400.

As for those among you who are looking in the direction of Korg EK50/EK50L, go for the former. In an extensive video, Jeremy See explains how there isn’t much difference between them really and the EK50 is much less expensive (see the link below).

Just my two cents,

Vinciane

https://youtu.be/GVHTGKDpigQ
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Toril S on November 09, 2021, 11:03:43 AM
I have the Casio PRX-3000. The slimmest digital piano ever. And it has arranger functions and 200 styles and 700 voices. But it costs more than the Yamaha e series.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on November 09, 2021, 11:13:33 AM
Hi Toril,

Do you mean the CT-X3000 by any chance? If yes, could you please report on your experience with it? What it misses in my opinion are the Live! Knobs of the PSR E series, as well as the possibility of the PSR E463 to record yourself on a thumbdrive. Very convenient to record a composition on the fly.

Regards,

Vinciane.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Toril S on November 09, 2021, 11:49:55 AM
No, this s PRx. The series s called Privia. 88 keys. 2 control knobs  and pb wheel. But it is really a digital piano with extra functions.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on November 09, 2021, 12:00:01 PM
Oh it indeed looks cool  8)
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Toril S on November 09, 2021, 03:19:11 PM
Corrected my typos😀 Yes it is cool and has good sound. I am suffering piano lessons. 😀
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on November 09, 2021, 03:48:42 PM
Hi Toril,

“Suffering piano lessons” I like that  :D
Have you had the chance to try the DGX670? How would you rate the Privia by comparison?

This doesn’t tell us yet when the E473 will arrive  ;D

Vinciane
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Toril S on November 09, 2021, 05:10:44 PM
Yes, I have tried the DGX670. A very good instrument, better than the Privia because it is heavy and has fantastic speakers. But I fell for the Privia because it takes up little space and looks and sounds very good for its small size. For my needs it is perfect.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: SciNote on November 09, 2021, 08:37:50 PM
Vinciane, I suspect that if you held on to your Casio CTX-3000, you would have found that the keyboard feel would have quickly degenerated.  I could be wrong, but I was in a music store, and they had a CTX-5000 on display, which is their $450 portable keyboard flagship.  The keyboard felt like a rickety $50 keyboard that had been dropped down the stairs!  You could say that this was because it was a display model that had been messed with by many people, but the same would be true for the Yamaha's on display, and none of the Yamaha's felt that degraded.  It is still true that the PSR-E463's key feel is not as good as the E433, and that is something that I hope is improved with the E473, but it's nothing like what I saw with that Casio.

I also did see a CTX-400, and I also felt it to be a decent keyboard for the price.  More logical menus, with push buttons that can change functions but are clearly labeled on the LCD display, 32 registrations, and even portamento built in to some of the synthesizer sounds.  But like you said -- more of a competitor to the Yamaha's PSR-E373, not the E463, as there are no live-control knobs and no user-editable effects other than reverb and chorus, as far as I could tell.  There may have been DSP -- I can't remember -- but there was no filter or envelope generator that I could find.  The key feel was okay (still not as good as Yamaha, in my opinion) -- so only time will tell if it holds up.

As for menu-diving on the E400 series, as compared to the Korg EK50, though I have no hands-on experience with the Korg, when I look at the pictures of its control panel, I really don't see what this is about.  Yes, I can see direct push-buttons to turn on and off the three right-hand parts and the split/left hand part, as well as the style parts, but I do not see any direct controls to change the volume or octave of these parts.  Direct buttons for overall octave and transposition are there, which is good.  But other than that, I don't see a major difference in regard to the Yamaha E400 series.  At least the E433 on up has direct buttons to turn on and off the dual and split voices, and there are direct buttons to turn on and off parts of an auto-accompaniment style.  And remember, for deeper editing of the sounds, all you have to do is hit and hold down a particular button for certain features, and then the keyboard automatically jumps to the correct part of the menu list of functions, reducing the need to scroll through dozens of parameters to find what you want.  Like if you want to change the dual voice octave, you just hit and hold down the dual voice button for a couple seconds, and then it is just a couple button presses from there to get to the dual voice octave function.  Admittedly, they don't have this explicitly available for the main voice, but you can either hold down dual voice button, then just step backwards through the functions to go into the main voice parameters, or use one of the other functions (it might be style volume, but I'm not sure), that is only a couple clicks away from the main voice parameters.

As for a possible February 2022 release date for the PSR-E473?  Sounds good and logical to me!
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on November 09, 2021, 08:53:16 PM
Hi Bob,

Here in France it is much too late and I am far too tired so I’ll answer your long post when I’ll be my normal self again.

Regards,

Vinciane
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Piano Tone on November 10, 2021, 07:27:50 PM
As for menu-diving on the E400 series, as compared to the Korg EK50, though I have no hands-on experience with the Korg, when I look at the pictures of its control panel, I really don't see what this is about.  Yes, I can see direct push-buttons to turn on and off the three right-hand parts and the split/left hand part, as well as the style parts, but I do not see any direct controls to change the volume or octave of these parts.  Direct buttons for overall octave and transposition are there, which is good.  But other than that, I don't see a major difference in regard to the Yamaha E400 series.  At least the E433 on up has direct buttons to turn on and off the dual and split voices, and there are direct buttons to turn on and off parts of an auto-accompaniment style.  And remember, for deeper editing of the sounds, all you have to do is hit and hold down a particular button for certain features, and then the keyboard automatically jumps to the correct part of the menu list of functions, reducing the need to scroll through dozens of parameters to find what you want.  Like if you want to change the dual voice octave, you just hit and hold down the dual voice button for a couple seconds, and then it is just a couple button presses from there to get to the dual voice octave function.  Admittedly, they don't have this explicitly available for the main voice, but you can either hold down dual voice button, then just step backwards through the functions to go into the main voice parameters, or use one of the other functions (it might be style volume, but I'm not sure), that is only a couple clicks away from the main voice parameters.

Hi there!  The EK-50 user interface is amazing.  To change a relative voice volume layer, hold the button for the layer, spin the knob, the display will show your volume going up and down.  Same for a relative accompaniment part volume; hold the button spin the knob.  Same for a backing track relative volume; hold button, spin knob.  Same for BPM of metronome or rhythm; hold shift button, spin knob.   To octave shift a voice layer, hold the layer and hit the octave shift button. 

No menu deep diving at all, it's a brilliantly thought out interface.  As a matter of fact if you do go into the equivalent of the PSR series (massive) "function" menu, there are only a handful of entries, none of which are things you need often (specifying battery type etc).

Go to 9:09 in my review if you want to go straight to the user interface section.  https://youtu.be/X59R-PWCoDg 
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: SciNote on November 10, 2021, 08:47:44 PM
I agree that this sounds convenient, but still not truly direct, as holding down a button and then spinning the knob at the same time still requires you to use both hands at the same time.  And like I said, it's really not all that different than many of the PSR-E400-series functions, where you hold down a particular button to get to the function parameters related to that button, such as dual voice or split voice, then only have to tap the function-select button one or two times to get to the commonly used level and octave settings, then simply turn the knob (or use the plus and minus keys) to adjust the parameter.  Certainly, it's still not something you'd generally do during live playing, but it's not like you have to start from the beginning of a long list of functions and step through dozens of functions to get to what you want.

The EK-50 seems to be equivalent to the older PSR-530 to PSR-740 type keyboards, in that there are hundreds of (presumably) high quality sounds, and many effects that can be applied, but with no synthesizer type editing, such as filter or envelope generator.  I am curious, does the EK-50 have portamento, either as a selectable function or built in to some synthesizer sounds?
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: casiokid on November 11, 2021, 10:01:52 AM
I had an EK-50. Voices and adjustments were great. Lovely keybed. Choosing voices 'on the fly' meant using both hands. Downside was the loading of additional styles which have to be loaded in sets of six (Korg Set Lists). The on board Effects, apart from Reverb' I found were not much use and there was no 'panning.'
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on November 25, 2021, 12:45:02 AM
Agreed! i also Believe that the psr E473/ew425 could launch any day now even during the holidays. We might get Surprised.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on December 26, 2021, 07:37:58 AM
Hello again everyone merry Christmas 🎄. Still don’t see the psr e473 launched yet. Has anyone heard anything yet. I’m just curious.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on December 27, 2021, 05:34:03 PM
Everything in musical instrument retail is on a slow schedule. The Winter NAMM show was postponed to June 3-5 in Anaheim, California, replacing the Summer NAMM usually held in Nashville.

A quick look at on-line retailers (mostly USA) shows Yamaha out-of-stock no matter what the category: digital pianos, arrangers or synths. Guitar Center locally (Seattle) claimed that arrangers, in particular, are hard to obtain. Even if Yamaha announced it, units wouldn't be available for months.

Having missed the holiday season, there's not much incentive for a new entry-level product.

-- pj
 
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on January 12, 2022, 06:05:36 PM
Well, Yamaha's competition is coming. Casio have been running a teaser for a new entry-level board of some sort. Four octaves and may have a vocoder. Uses the AiX LSI developed for the CT-Xx000 keyboards which compete with the Yamaha E-series.

A member of the Musicplayer Keyboard forum posted the pre-release image below.

Announcment date is simply January 2022.

All the best -- pj


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: SciNote on January 12, 2022, 11:01:09 PM
Looks interesting, especially with those extra knobs.  But doesn't look too extensive -- certainly doesn't appear to have the capabilities of the Yamaha PSR-E400-series, but I know looks can sometimes be deceiving.  However, I'd really have to think about purchasing anything with just 4 octaves for how I would use such a keyboard.  I normally split the keyboard on my E433 and play both hands on that keyboard at once -- 4 octaves would really limit the range for that -- assuming that it can even split the keyboard, at all.  The vocoder is interesting, but not likely anything that I would use much, if at all.

Might make for a nice extra keyboard -- kind of like how I use my Roland Gaia synth with 3 octaves -- but might be kind of limited for a main keyboard.  But, we'll see!
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: SciNote on January 14, 2022, 05:37:53 AM
Did some digging and found this...

https://www.synthanatomy.com/2022/01/casio-ct-1000v-new-keyboard-with-vocal-synthesis-is-coming-soon.html

It looks like the "vocal" part isn't a vocoder, but instead some sort of vocal synthesis.  I'm guessing maybe a focus on various human voice and choir sounds.  Notice the big portamento knob!  The videos on the page are just teasers, but if they are indicative of the sound the keyboard can make, it might be interesting.  That webpage says it's supposed to be out sometime this month, but we all know about chip shortages and product delays these days.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on January 14, 2022, 06:19:58 PM
Hi Bob --

Thanks. I agree that the CT-S1000V does not compete directly with the E-series. I wonder if this is Casio's answer to the VKB-100 Vocaloid keyboard?

https://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-vkb-100-redux/

Casio appears to be running around playing Internet whack-a-mole with the images. Why are these people so controlling? It just hacks off influencers who might put a positive spin on their products.

All the best to ya -- pj


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Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on January 14, 2022, 09:39:34 PM
Hi Guys,

This is really interesting stuff.

First of all, this states “new keyboards”, plural. So what’s the main difference between the two models? The second one is only partly visible, maybe it has 5 octaves, 61 keys.

Secondly, the two control knobs have two labels, K1/Vocal type and K2/Portamento. Hopefully these knobs can be assigned to various parameters - this is where the real fun might begin.

Any wild guesses as to what K1 and K2 stand for? “Kontrol” in German maybe? Or simply “Knob”?

If there’s a five octaves model with two assignable control knobs, I’m in, esp. if our long-awaited PSR-E473 is still delayed.

In passing : Gearfacts on his YouTube channel in an answer to a comment I wrote made an allusion to something interesting due to come very soon from Yamaha. It might well be the PSR E473 after all, who knows…

Further, the UI of these new Casiotones strongly reminds that of the CT-S400. Behind its simplicity, the CT-S400 is a very capable entry-level keyboard with an interesting onboard MIDI recorder which has the possibility to control the volume and the panning of all three voices, as well as copy/paste function of individual tracks between different recordings. Very handy in an entry-level keyboard. On the CT-S400 the five buttons under the LCD screen have various functions depending on the mode you’re in (tone, rhythm etc.). Presumably it’ll be the same for these new Casiotones so let’s not be fooled by the apparent simplicity of the UI, it might hide some powerful features.

Isn’t life beautiful?

Regards,

Vinciane
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on January 14, 2022, 10:13:13 PM
Hi Guys,

If you watch closely this tease video and you count the white keys, this keyboard definitely has 5 octaves or am I mistaken?  8)

https://youtu.be/qUDilQUOyuc

Regards,

Vinciane
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on January 14, 2022, 10:39:47 PM
Yet another leaked photo on Reddit. The back of one of these new Casiotones can be seen.

@SciNote @PJD can you maybe guess what connectivity the keyboard has? Thanks.

Vinciane

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on January 14, 2022, 10:56:37 PM
Another update yet:

On the Casio Music Forums, Mike Martin just confirmed to me that the K1/K2 knobs are assignable and that one of the two new keyboards indeed had 61 keys  :D

Cheers.

Vinciane
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on January 14, 2022, 11:02:19 PM
Yet another teaser video. On this one you can clearly hear the speech synthesis as well as some sounds and rhythms of one of the Casiotones:

https://youtu.be/5x7UoP-3Ko4

Vinciane
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on January 14, 2022, 11:46:52 PM
Hello Vinciane --

Thanks for all of the links, pictures and info. I already updated my site.  :)

"K" probably means "knob." Can't imagine mixing German and English on a front panel. Or overusing "K" -- unless you're Korg. :-)

As to connectivity, the only identifiable port is a USB-A port, probably for a USB jump drive. The rest? We'll know in a few days.

Mike Martin strikes me as a decent chap. He has a lot of respect on the Musicplayer Keyboard forum.

I'll have to scan a CT-S400 manual for my education.  :D

As to 4 or 5 octaves, most of what I play can be done on 4 octaves -- I'm not using styles/chord recognition. I'm done with three octave keybeds and I'm nearly done with mini-keys. I've been playing a Korg Microkey Air 49 lately and Santa brought an Arturia Keylab Essential 49 last week. Even Santa had supply chain issues.  8)

Can't wait to see what Yamaha has planned. They've actually had enough time to revise what they had in the pipe...

All the best to everyone -- pj
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on January 15, 2022, 12:28:18 AM
Just read the thread on the Casio forum.

The knob legends are different on the red model (CT-S1000V) and the grey model. So, there are two new models. The grey model does not have voice synthesis -- maybe a CT-S500?

Rear panel is very similar to the CT-S400. I think these two keyboards are extensions of the CT-S400 and will hit the street in the same neighborhood as E463 -- around $330 USD.

At least Casio isn't objecting to pre-release images in its forum. Note to Yamaha --  Lighten up.

-- pj
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: SciNote on January 15, 2022, 03:25:34 AM
Very interesting.  That vocal clip sounded really nice.  I'm also casting my vote for K1 and K2 meaning "Knob 1" and "Knob 2"

In the two videos, I looked at them back to back -- freezing the darkened image of the keyboard -- and I'm guessing that this is a 5 octave keyboard on both of those videos.  There seem to be at least 34 white keys -- and some are very likely hidden in the shadows -- so 36 would be very possible, which would be 5 octaves (5 times 7 white keys = 35 keys, plus the upper key so that the board goes from C to C instead of C to B).  But PLEASE, Casio, improve the QUALITY of the KEYBED!

If there is a five octave version, then that would increase my interest in it.  The vocal features sound nice.  It obviously has portamento -- at least one version of these keyboards, anyway.  I'll be looking for how straightforward the user interface is, and how much editing of sounds by way of filter, envelope, and other synth-type functions are available.  Though, I must admit, that my Roland Gaia synth satisfies my appetite for creating sounds.  But I would still need some tweaking, such as split, dual, independent control of octave and volume for each part, and DSP of some type.

But we'll see.  Maybe this will get Yamaha to get it in gear and at least start giving us some info about the E473, because Yamaha has served me well over the years, and I would certainly want to at least see what the E473 is capable of before buying any new main keyboard.

As for the connections visible on the back of the Casios?  Hard to say for sure.  One looks like a standard full-sized USB to device port.  A couple look like 3.5mm audio jacks (maybe for microphone and MP3 player?  Maybe it will have some basic vocoder function?).  Then there is whatever the cord is hooked to, which is likely either an audio connection or a power connection.  But I can't really make out the rest of it.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on January 15, 2022, 06:33:08 AM
Hi,

Yet another update. This thread on Gearspace contains some additional information:

https://gearspace.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-and-electronic-music-production/1369862-new-casio-synth-2022-woweee.html

Apparently the CT-S1000V will have a programmable arpeggiator. Pretty cool  8)

It also seems that a Bluetooth connection module will be included in the box with both the CT-S500 and the CT-S1000V, see attached screenshot (the link is dead).

If the CT-S1000V has 5 octaves, 2 assignable control knobs, speech synthesis (I also read something about an app to control speech synthesis), Bluetooth MIDI/Audio connectivity as well as the usual AiX sounds and auto-accompaniment features, Yamaha would better release their PSR E-473 very quickly.

Vinciane



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Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: casiokid on January 15, 2022, 08:06:07 AM
All this speculation about the new Casio keyboards is interesting, but Casio need to update their out of date styles (rhythms as Casio call them) to seriously compete with Yamaha and Korg
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on January 15, 2022, 07:09:33 PM
The more I think about the new Casio keyboards, the more they seem like extensions of the existing CT-S4-- line. I'm hoping for the new pianos, etc. that they put into the S1.

Nice catch as to the Bluetooth module, Vinciane! I've been experimenting with MIDI over Bluetooth and don't really see any reason to leave it out of a product anymore. Korg have an interesting implementation with Microkey Air. There's a little cover (like a battery cover) over an installable (replaceable) Bluetooth module. All's a manufacturer has to do is type qualify a module for a region (FCC in the USA, CE in Europe, etc.), then install the module into units intended for delivery/use in the region. Yamaha has qualified modules already. Let's go!

The AiX board in the CT-S400 is small and incredibly sparse. I may have to buy a Casio just to take it apart.  ;D

Yep, Yamaha had better not let grass grow under it's feet -- pj
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on January 15, 2022, 08:18:35 PM
Hi PJ,

Audio over Bluetooth is even sweeter. It means you could control an iPad app for instance the Korg iM1 app with the keyboard via Bluetooth, then have the iPad audio sent back to the keyboard. It also mean you could record your keyboard’s audio output wirelessly on an iPad or a laptop without the need of any audio interface. Pretty cool.

Yep, I’d like to get the exclusive voices of the CT-S1 on the new keyboards, too. I have been dreaming wildly over what I could begin with the Mellotron flute ;D

And: why on Earth would you want to tear a Casio keyboard apart to get your hands on the AiX board?

What I think AiX keyboards are needing is a computer-based patch editor, like those for the Yamaha DX7 or the Korg M1 in their time.

Regards,

Vinciane
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on January 18, 2022, 12:45:57 AM
And: why on Earth would you want to tear a Casio keyboard apart to get your hands on the AiX board?

Oh, I've been taking things apart since I was a kid.  :) Just taught the grandson how to remove screws from door hinges...

Well, I did the next best thing and looked through recent Casio patents on the US Patent and Trademark site:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/recent-casio-patents-air-aix/

The voice synthesis stuff is an interesting application of deep neural nets. It'll be interesting to hear the CT-S1000V and see its app. Yamaha Vocaloid was very labor intensive. I couldn't imagine anyone devoting the time needed to make a good synthesized performance. It's got to be easy-peasy.

All the best -- pj
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on January 20, 2022, 07:35:20 AM
Well, well...

https://youtu.be/owyIirnMpfQ

 8)

Vinciane
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Duurduur on January 20, 2022, 11:58:53 AM
I can not play this video. It says it's private.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on January 20, 2022, 01:24:19 PM
Gosh they shut the video down!


It is quite cool. The musician Christian Matthew Cullen has written a song and he plays it on the CT-S1000V. Synth patches seem to be nice. The lyrics are preloaded on his smartphone and he then plays the syllables as regular music notes with his right hand. He must be doing the bass with his left hand.


I had time to read that the drums are his own samples (presumably a backing track thus) before the vid was shut down.


If you want to know more they are having an extensive presentation today at 1 PM Eastern. This video will be showcasted with plenty of other sweeties.


More of interest to Yamaha users: one good thing never comes alone, apparently Gearfacts received a nice little package from Yamaha and he'll do a presentation tomorrow on his YouTube channel. This might be about the oh-so-long awaited PSR E473.


So stay tuned, it's Christmas in January  8)


Regards


Vinciane
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on January 20, 2022, 07:39:35 PM
I updated my web site with a quick summary of the new keyboards:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/new-casio-portable-keyboards/

Watching the announcement video stream, a few of the artist demos are genuinely exciting. The new instruments include the pianos, vintage keyboards, etc., that are included in the CT-S1. [The announcement video just confirmed this.] Edits to preset voices are stored in registrations. At these price points, Casio will sell a bunch.

Both instruments allow split/layer and have 100 editable DSP effects.

The workflow through the Lyric Creator app to finished sound appears to be direct and fast -- much easier than Vocaloid.

Visually, the instruments look like synths, not arrangers. The rhythms (styles) are hidden. The video stream is trying to tell "pro musicians" that it's OK (convenient!) to have speakers built in. Interesting approach to both promotion and instrument design -- trying to get around the "it's a (Casio) arranger toy" bias of so-called "pro musicians."

Casio have really slapped down a real challenge to Yamaha!

-- pj

Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: bebopn on January 20, 2022, 08:36:26 PM
Hi,
In case it helps anyone planning their future with the psr-e series, I just got a small hint regarding availability of PSR-E463. As you know it has been out of stock in many places (Guitar Center, etc) but to my knowledge no store has actually said anything official about it's availability. I have had one on an update list (backordered) from BHPhoto (NYC) for a couple of months. They updated me Tuesday Jan 18, saying that they have been told it is "discontinued".
So, if we assume it's officially discontinued (confirmation from another source would help), announcing the next model might be their next step? Of course there is no rule saying when that might happen. With the NAMM Show not happening until June, I imagine many manufacturers are not able to wait to use that as their primary launchpad for new products this year.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on January 20, 2022, 09:19:27 PM
Hi,

Tomorrow, Gearfacts is going to post a YouTube video about new gear Yamaha sent him. I am pretty sure it’ll be the PSR E473 (just a personal guess). So stay tuned!

Honestly, after having seen Casio Special Event today, I believe it’ll be hard for Yamaha to catch the train this time.

The new Casio’s CT-S1000V and CT-S500 are ahead their time I think.

The only thing I don’t like is the fact that they’ve only two-variation styles - this is a pity since they’ve far better ergonomics than the more “pro” CT-X3000/5000, as well as the high-quality patches of the CT-S1. So why don’t they have a better style module? They would have been winners in the middle arranger segment.

They have too few real-time controllers to qualify as fully-fledged synths, either. But they’re certainly fun and capable instruments, esp. the CT-S1000V with its speech synthesis engine. They are going to sell like hot buns. I am wondering why Casio didn’t put them on the market before Christmas. Timing issues due to the Covid-19 pandemics maybe?

There are only two reasons I could think of for these keyboards having only 2-variation styles:

1) The guys responsible for instrument design at Casio are daft.

2) They’ve got a CT-S 10000 in the making which will combine the possibilities of the CT-S1000V and the CT-X5000.

In the meantime, the PSR E473 would better come with new styles, sounds and functions if Yamaha wants to remain a serious contender in the segment - but I do have serious doubts.

Looking forward to see Gearfacts vid tomorrow…

Regards,

Vinciane
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: rodrigo.b on January 20, 2022, 09:49:56 PM
Hi. Like I said before, I hope the PSR E473 will get some of the MegaVoices of the SX series  :)
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on January 21, 2022, 12:14:34 AM
Just a little food for thought...

I was working on a comparison table (S500, S1000V, E463, MX61). Yamaha doesn't have a problem only on the arranger side. The MX61 is highly vulnerable, too. The street price for the MX61 is $770 USD. The S500 and S1000V both deliver more value, if the main purpose of the instrument is to play. Versus the MX61, players probably don't care about styles/"rhythms".

I caught the name of at least one Yamaha person in the chat.

Frankly, if Yamaha releases what we glimpsed a few months ago before their lawyers got huffy, they're in trouble. Maybe fire the lawyers and hire a few more engineers.  ::)

Not expecting much tomorrow -- pj


Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: rodrigo.b on January 21, 2022, 01:06:55 AM
It’s here the PSR E473 https://youtu.be/qMVhJLas8o8 (https://youtu.be/qMVhJLas8o8)  :)
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: SciNote on January 21, 2022, 04:33:59 AM
Well DANG!  So much to consider now!  The E473 has some nice features with the S.Art. Lite, the 2 slots of DSP effects, and the morphing control they briefly mentioned.  However, I am not crazy about the live-control knobs being so far away from the keyboard.  For other things that I am hoping for, such as the ability to sustain both sides of a split keyboard with the pedal, the existence of portamento, and the key feel, we'll have to wait for the manual and to see it in person.  I paused the video in several places, and I did not see a portamento button, but it could be a programmable function (like in the I500), or maybe some synth sounds could have it built in, like the Casio CTX700 and CTS400.

That vocal Casio looks freaky!  I'm not sure what to think about it!  So, yeah, I saw the video while it was still up, and that's exactly what it looks like -- lyrics are added from a smartphone and then synthesized into speech/singing.  The song on the video had a very vocoder-like characteristic to it.  It will be interesting to see if more natural human sounds are available.  But my concern with this feature is that, it appears to play the lyrics in some sort of pre-programmed arrangement, and indeed, there were several times where it looked like the musician was playing one note, but several words were "sang", while at other times, each press of a key produced a new sung word.  It would seem like if you made a minor mistake while playing that the words could get out of sync with your playing, but that's just speculation.  And while many synths today do have more live-control knobs, that isn't always the case.  Look at the original DX-7, which was pretty much completely menu-programmed with very limited live-control of altering the sound.  But just like with the E473, we'll need to see what Casio does with the key feel, as they is a lot of room for improvement when compared with many of their recent models.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: SciNote on January 21, 2022, 09:48:34 AM
Information about the Casios -- the CTS500 and CTS1000V -- are now on their website!  Strangely, it shows them as both 5 octaves.  So, what was that 4 octave keyboard we saw previously?  A prototype?

Based on the information on the Casio website as I write this, the CTS500 is $379.99 US, and the CST1000V is $449.99 US.  I imagine these are MSRP.  The CTS500 has an option to purchase now, while the CTS1000V says that it is "coming soon."

Very interesting features here.  They are both listed as having 800 tones and 243 rhythms.  They are both listed as having 3 assignable knobs that can control things such as effects and filters.  They are both listed as having portamento.  They are both listed as having a maximum of 64 notes polyphony.  They are both listed as having 16 banks of 4 registrations.  In fact, based on the specs that I'm seeing, it looks like the CTS1000V can do most (if not all) of what the CTS500 can do, but then adds (of course) the synthesized vocal features, as well as the ability to create user tones.  There could be more -- I'm just summarizing based on basic lists of features.

So -- these look quite impressive!  So, how's the key feel, Casio?  That's the big question!  I'm really looking forward to checking out these keyboards and the new PSR-E473.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on January 21, 2022, 10:55:56 AM
Hi Bob,

On one of the leaked photos, one of the keyboards appeared to have only 4 octaves because the photo was truncated and these keyboards have 3 speakers. So with one speaker being truncated on the photo, it gave the false impression of a 2-speakers, 4-octaves keyboard.

And yes, the CT-S500 is simply a CT-S1000V without the speech synthesis module.

If you want to know more (this is also for PJ), the manuals are online now.

I am a bit confused. The CT-S500 and 1000V are great as far are sound is concerned but even if they now have two assignable knobs plus one for modulation above the pitchbend wheel, seing the wealth of functions they’re providing, they are lacking some more buttons for direct function access.

On the other hand, the new PSR E473/EW425 has as many buttons as on the now vanished PSR S series, but quite frankly from the few videos which are now online, the sounds and styles haven’t changed much since our old faithful PSR E433. I find this fairly boring.

The only thing I can say so far about these new keyboards is that the Casio videos are more funny and original than the Yamaha ones.

Yamaha probably doesn’t care because they are going to sell wealth of instruments to music schools and piano beginners, anyway, as well as to small churches (with its flashy looks I doubt that any chaplain would opt for the CT-S1000V for church service lol).

I’d say if you want to learn piano and have some basic arranging functions, choose the EW425. If you want to have fun and get into sound design or song creation, go for one of the Casio’s (and given the meagre price difference between both keyboards, I’d go for the CT-S1000V straightaway).

If you are serious about arranging, buy a PSR SX600 or a Korg PA700.

Hope we’ll get more vids of both the Casio’s and the Yamaha’s in the forthcoming days  8)

Regards,

Vinciane
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: tekorei on January 21, 2022, 02:24:41 PM
Well, I'm really interested to hear if the PSR 473 has convincing Rhodes and Wurlitzer sounds.

The Casio keyboards had those sounds even before the CTX models.

Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on January 21, 2022, 06:48:52 PM
Quote
It appears to play the lyrics in some sort of pre-programmed arrangement, and indeed, there were several times where it looked like the musician was playing one note, but several words were "sang", while at other times, each press of a key produced a new sung word.  It would seem like if you made a minor mistake while playing that the words could get out of sync with your playing.

The CT has different "modes" for playing lyrics. The Casio approach is not too different than the Yamaha Vocaloid keyboard (VKB-100). It's too hard to select (play) a phoneme with the left hand and a melody note with the right hand in real time. There were some early attempts at this and it wasn't pretty... Pre-canned lyrics are soooo much simpler.

Quote
4 octaves

That's the hazard of pre-announcement photo-interpretation. I leave my mistakes on-line in order to maintain my humility. :-)

Quote
CT prices

Those are street prices. A certain large retailer has the S500 in stock.

Quote
They are both listed... litany

Mike Martin (Casio) posted on the Musicplayer Keyboard forum. They wanted to produce both models and give people a choice. To me, the extra $80 might be worth the novelty and a chance to tear down (screwdriver) the S1000V. He also said that the CT-X series is NOT dead and may be more appropriate for one-person-band.

I think they are building the S-series from the entry-side up. I would expect a future high-end model or two.

Quote
Well, I'm really interested to hear if the PSR-E473 has convincing Rhodes and Wurlitzer sounds.

The 61 piano, EP, etc. sounds in the S1 will likely appear in future, upper-end models. Those sounds really caught people's attention on the Keyboard forum. I passed on the S1 since I need more strings, woodwinds, etc. The S500 is an attractive step up.

All the best -- pj
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on January 21, 2022, 07:01:07 PM
Quote
Well, I'm really interested to hear if the PSR-E473 has convincing Rhodes and Wurlitzer sounds.

Yamaha improved the drawbar organ sounds, giving select EW425 voices percussive click (key noise?) and leakage. As to electric pianos, SArt Lite Harpsichord? Really? Telemann is happy, but not Ray Charles.

Quote
I find this fairly boring.

I Strongly agree. We waited for this? Quite a few of the motion effects are in the PSS-A50 -- for $100 USD.

Would like to see pricing than make an assessment about performance per dollar -- customer value. My intuition is giving the edge to Casio at these price points.

-- pj
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on January 21, 2022, 07:11:58 PM
As to launch events...  :o :o :o :o :o :o

Casio wins hands down. The live event was well-advertised, well-attended, good natured. It had lively artist demos. Well done.

Yamaha simply posted videos on YouTube. As of this AM, no manuals on the USA site. Crickets. The demo videos are boring and the sounds are uninspiring.

I don't like to slag Yamaha, but maybe they need to concentrate on listening to customers and product development -- not chasing after people about pre-announcement pictures.

Mike Martin and Rich Formidoni (Casio) participate in forums and they clearly read user forums. They probably read this one. (Nice job, guys!)

I've got further thoughts, but I will get slagged if I express them here. I like competition and I wish Yamaha the best.

-- pj
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: SciNote on January 22, 2022, 07:26:00 AM
Just wanted to let everyone know that it looks like that video of the Casio vocal-effect song on the CTS-1000V posted above is available again...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owyIirnMpfQ

It's also on Sweetwater's site -- yes, they are currently listing both Casios -- the CTS-500 and the 1000V -- on their site.  I don't see the Yamaha PSR-E473/EW425 there yet, however.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on January 22, 2022, 10:46:56 AM
Hi everyone,

@PJ actually all the “exclusive” tone of the CT-S1 are in the CT-S500 and CT-S1000V.

I strongly hope that higher-end models with more buttons and controls, 4-variation styles etc., will come later, but they certainly won’t land in the Casiotone line. I think that the CT-S1000 is already very sophisticated and could put beginners off (by the way, who else thinks the CT-S1000V looks like the XW1’s little brother?).

For those interested, I made two posts on the Casio Music Forums about the new CT-Ss, one with links to the manuals and the product website (with plenty sound examples), and another with the best video demonstrations which have been published so far. It is in the CT-S section of the forum.

As for the manuals of the PSR EW425/E473, I repost them here for reference purposes:

https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/portable_keyboards/psr-e473/downloads.html

Regards,

Vinciane
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: casiokid on January 22, 2022, 01:11:43 PM
Like you Vinciane I'm impressed with what Casio are offering with the CT-S500/1000v.   I've also noted that the output of both these instruments is only 2.5W whereas the E473/425 is 6W and 12W respectively.  And yes the CT-S1 tones are included in these models as you asked Vinciane on the live stream.   Now my dilemma which one should I get ?
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on January 22, 2022, 02:34:57 PM
@Casiokid let's forget the EW425 which is bulky excepted if you're looking for a keyboard for church service.

The CT-S500 would not be a good choice excepted if you're on a budget because for 80 $ more you can have the CT-S1000V with the speech synthesis module and which will also have a better resale value.

This leaves basically the E473 and the CT-S1000V.

What I would do when they hit the shelves is either go and try both of them side by side in an old-fashioned music shop.

If this is too tedious or if you can't wait, simply order one of the other on Internet and send it back if it doesn't suits you.

Also: if you like the CT-S1, the CT-S400 or any CT-X, you can't loose if you try the CT-S1000V.

Conversely if you are an afficionado of Yamaha's E seriesv(which your nickname makes me doubt), you might want to try the E473 instead.

Regards,

Vinciane
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on January 22, 2022, 02:51:06 PM
Hi,

Esp. for Bob and for PJ, here is a new EW425 video from Gearfacts:

https://youtu.be/fNH5XKudhAs

Vinciane
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on January 22, 2022, 05:57:27 PM
Quote
I don't see the Yamaha PSR-E473/EW425 there yet, however.

This launch has been very un-Yamaha. Yamaha usually issues a press release with preliminary pricing info. As yet, nada. If I believed in conspiracy theories, I'd say they hurried the launch knowing that Casio was going to drop something big.

Quote
@PJ actually all the "exclusive" tones of the CT-S1 are in the CT-S500 and CT-S1000V.

I agree and hope that I didn't misspeak somewhere? I'm paying attention to the new CTs because of those tones. (Casio hasn't given them a name, so I wasn't sure how to refer to them.) The S1 didn't have the other voices that I genuinely need.

As to Yamaha voices, I feel like I've now heard all of them. (At least the ones that I care about.) I got to the same place with Roland circa 2010 and switched to Yamaha. Lately I've been exploring iPad as a sound generator. Yamaha needs to do something to charm me.  :)

Quote
I think that the CT-S1000 is already very sophisticated and could put beginners off.

I agree about the sophistication, but it looks pretty simple, not intimidating. But, I'm a nut case (enthusiast).

Quote
I've also noted that the output of both these instruments is only 2.5W whereas the E473/425 is 6W and 12W respectively.

Built-in speakers are "courtesy speakers." They are useful in specific situations: living room jam, a quick playing session, rehearsal without PA. For live play, tho', one needs serious amplification.

Quote
... try both of them side by side in an old-fashioned music shop.

Oh, dear, I wish I could. I've got an N95 mask/boosted VAX, but the local music stores are stripped of inventory. It's a good time to sell off old gear as new gear is in short supply. Anybody want to buy my Nord E2?  ;D {Just joking.}

Quote
excepted if you're on a budget because for 80 $ more

True that. It would have made a difference when I was kid mopping floors in a donut shop to make money...

Gotta go get the week's groceries -- pj
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on January 22, 2022, 06:00:22 PM
I posted links to the speech technology behind Casio's CT-S1000V:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/casio-speech-synthesis-technology/

Reader, beware! There is serious science/math behind their singing/speech synthesis, the culmination of 20+ years of university research.

-- pj
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on January 22, 2022, 06:53:22 PM
Hi PJ,

One of the Casio patents arises my curiosity.

"Picture/image generation in sync with music", what on Earth could it be? The formulation makes me think of the old Winamp visualization module.

And: true, 80 $ won't make such a big difference. But there are some people out there who might just as well but the CT-S500 and spare one week of groceries if they don't care about speech synthesis. If Casio are launching two different products, they must have a reason.

Regards,

Vinciane
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on January 24, 2022, 06:20:57 PM
Hi Vinciane --

Reading the patent, it takes imagination to work through the legalese and the static text, i.e., lack of actual animation. It is like old music visualizers. Black and white image below. The pictures used a flower motif.

All of the patents are on-line: https://www.uspto.gov/patents/search

As to the two products, Mike Martin posted on the Keyboard forum: They just wanted to give people a choice. Some might think the singing synthesis is too gimmicky and not want to pay for it.

All the best -- pj


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Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on January 24, 2022, 08:03:38 PM
As to the two products, Mike Martin posted on the Keyboard forum: They just wanted to give people a choice. Some might think the singing synthesis is too gimmicky and not want to pay for it.
Exactly. Once the novelty effect is withdrawn, I don’t see the utility of this speech synthesis engine, excepted if it were possible to use it with samples of more « natural » voices, because then it could be used by non-singing musicians to add vocals to their tracks and get an idea of what their song would sound like with the addition of a singer.

Vinciane
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on January 25, 2022, 06:31:53 AM
I,m glad. The wait is finally over. I/m curious if it can play Sff2 styles
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on January 25, 2022, 07:48:28 AM
I,m glad. The wait is finally over. I/m curious if it can play Sff2 styles
Nope. Otherwise it would overlap with the PSR SX600.

But there is a goodie: now you can revoice the styles and store the result into a reg slot. Wished Casio would have done the same for the new Casiotones.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on January 25, 2022, 09:39:11 AM
Yes I am so glad at least we can revioce a style as that feature is the first on the psr e range. Oh i wonder if they added a voice demo feture.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on January 26, 2022, 05:34:45 PM
Yamaha: "SFF GE (Guitar Edition) is an enhanced format of SFF, which features improved note transposition for guitar tracks."

SFF2 is SFF GE. SFF GE has some trickery for handling guitar chord voicing. Perhaps more importantly, it can handle Mega Voice guitars (and other Mega Voice instruments).

When Yamaha added Mega Voice to the DGX (DGX-670), they also added SFF GE (SFF2) capability.

Since Yamaha have not added Mega Voice to the E-series, they don't have much motivation to add SFF GE to the E-series.

That's my simplistic take, anyway.  :D

-- pj
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on January 28, 2022, 04:57:27 AM
Cool. And at least Im glad that we can revoice the styles. Making it more fun to enjoy.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: SciNote on January 28, 2022, 11:30:58 AM
Nope. Otherwise it would overlap with the PSR SX600.

But there is a goodie: now you can revoice the styles and store the result into a reg slot. Wished Casio would have done the same for the new Casiotones.

When you say "revoice the styles", what do you mean?  It sounds like the ability to change the voices/instruments of the different tracks of a style, but I don't see anything in the manual for the E473/EW425 about that.  All that I see that can be saved to a registration, as far as styles go, are normal things, such as style volume, tempo, and which tracks/parts are active.

On a different note, a kind of bizarre auto-accompaniment feature of the new keyboards is something called "smart chord."  How it works is that you go into the function menu to select an option to tell the keyboard the key of the song you will be playing by how many sharps or flats the key has.  So, if you're going to be playing a song in Bb major, you'd select two flats.  Then, with smart chord switched on, what I believe happens is that all you have to do is hit one note for the background -- the root note of the chord you want -- and then the keyboard will determine whether to play a major or minor chord based on that note.  So, for Bb major, if you hit a Bb or an Eb, you'd get a major chord, whereas if you hit a G or a C, you'd get a minor chord, because those are the natural chords for that key.  For example, since the key of Bb has a Bb and an Eb in the key signature, when you play a G chord in that key with no accidentals, you wouldn't play G-B-D for G major, you'd play G-Bb-D for G minor, because the key signature flats the B.  And I guess if you play an A, you'd get an A diminished chord.

Of course, this is for really basic song playing, as major limitations could come up, because plenty of songs do have chords with accidentals that this system would not recognize, and you have to go into the function menu and change the key signature (number of sharps or flats) each time you play a song in a different key than the one you just played.  This can all be saved to a registration, however.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on January 28, 2022, 11:45:00 AM
Hi Bob,

It seems you didn’t do your homework LoL ;D

Go have a look at page 13 of the reference manual for the E473/EW425 here:

https://europe.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/3/1544203/psre473_en_rm_a0.pdf

You can now revoice all tracks of a given style and store this into a registration. Pretty cool. Together with the tracks enabling/disabling buttons, this will give more style flexibility. I am happy about this because usually I hate the default bass sound of the styles on all PSR E keyboards.

As for chord recognition, the so-called smart chord function is just a gimmick really. I’d rather have Yamaha implementing on bass and full keyboard chord recognition, which Casio has long had even on its cheapest home keyboards. This would probably be my main issue aside of pure sound quality if I had to choose between the PSR E473 and the CT-S500 or 1000V.

Regards,

Vinciane

Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on January 28, 2022, 05:42:52 PM
PSS-E30 and PSS-F30 have Smart Chord, too. This messes me up whenever I play the kid's E30!  :)

It's easier to re-voice non-Mega Voice styles. The effect notes up in the nose bleed section (above C6) drive people crazy when they re-voice a Mega Voice style track to a non-Mega Voice. ("What are those strange noises/notes that I hear?")

I guess one should wallow in the joy of E-series simplicity...  :)

Nice day to everyone -- pj
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on January 28, 2022, 10:29:04 PM
Just got back from Guitar Center. Friday morning and the store is empty. No Steve Vai wannabe shredding, etc.  8)

None of the new keyboards were available, so I played a CT-S1 and CT-S410 and did kind of a mind-meld between the tones on the two keyboards. Speaker systems were both good enough, keybed felt good and both instruments are amazingly light.

Well, well, the entry-level market has gotten very competitive! Tough choices vs. the new E473 and EW425.

-- pj

Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: SciNote on January 29, 2022, 01:16:45 AM
Hi Bob,

It seems you didn’t do your homework LoL ;D

Go have a look at page 13 of the reference manual for the E473/EW425 here:

https://europe.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/3/1544203/psre473_en_rm_a0.pdf

You can now revoice all tracks of a given style and store this into a registration. Pretty cool. Together with the tracks enabling/disabling buttons, this will give more style flexibility. I am happy about this because usually I hate the default bass sound of the styles on all PSR E keyboards.

As for chord recognition, the so-called smart chord function is just a gimmick really. I’d rather have Yamaha implementing on bass and full keyboard chord recognition, which Casio has long had even on its cheapest home keyboards. This would probably be my main issue aside of pure sound quality if I had to choose between the PSR E473 and the CT-S500 or 1000V.

Regards,

Vinciane

Great Scott!  How could Yamaha not make any mention of that in the main manual?!  That is a really nice feature for this level of keyboard.  Honestly, I don't think I would ever use it, because I mainly just use the styles for the drums, and I mainly use the registrations just for sounds, not styles.  But I could see how this could be very useful.  I believe my old PSR-520 had a similar feature, but if so, I never used it on that keyboard, either.  I haven't had that keyboard in years, so I cannot verify that one way or the other without finding the manual.

If I were to buy any of these new keyboards, I'm really starting to lean away from the Casios at this point.  The fact that you cannot have the registration buttons and style control buttons available at the same time would make it cumbersome to play the keyboard live.  And if it is the case, as it appears to be in the manual, that the actual value settings of the filter, envelope generator and other knob parameters cannot be saved in a registration or any other way, then that is a deal-breaker for me, right there.  I'll have to just see one of those keyboards in person, or just join the Casio Music Forums site like Vinciane said and ask someone there.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on January 29, 2022, 03:22:32 AM
@PJ: interesting. If the CT-S1 and 410 are nice, then the CT-S500 and 1000V will be even better  :)
By the way, has anybody a clue about the difference between the CT-S 400 and 410?

@Bob: too bad, homework not done once more!: On page 33 of the User Manual it reads: This instrument allows you to change the Voices that are used in each track of a Style, such as drums and phrases. For details, refer to the Reference Manual on the website (page 11).

And: I agree with both of you, it’ll be a tough choice.

As for style revoicing, I am wondering whether this applies to user styles, too… because this means that it’ll be possible to remap the SFF1 styles found here with the correct voices on the PSR E473/EW425. This is pretty cool because you can then use the nicer panel voices for the styles instead of the pretty boring XG lite default voice set.

As for the real time control knobs on the CT-Ss, there is some logic there. They are really meant to be used as real time controller, so this is quite logical that you can’t store the corresponding parameter values in registration slots. That being said, the effects can still be tweaked to one’s liking via the menu, then stored in a registration slot.

And the CTSs have other advantages: the ability to melodically assign a sample to the keyboard range, as well as the chord detection mode, which is much more sophisticated than on the Yamaha E series.

On the other hand, on the E473/EW425, the arpeggios can be quantised… a really pro feature.

On the paper, I am really tempted by the Yamaha’s. But I find that sound-wise, the Casio’s are better with the AiX chip. And I really like their chord detection system.

So, yes, the best option would be to try theses keyboards out in a music shop. Or else, order one online, you can always return it if you don’t like it.

Isn’t life beautiful?  8)

Regards,

Vinciane
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: SciNote on January 29, 2022, 06:58:43 AM
Okay, now I see it -- one little paragraph at the bottom of page 33 does mention the style revoicing, and I did miss that.  You'd still think they'd go into more detail about how to implement that feature in the main manual.  And when going to the section on registrations, for what is stored related to styles, this is what it says:

Style settings: Style number, ACMP on/off, Style vol-
ume, Track on/off, Main section A/B, Tempo, Fingering
type, Smart chord key

Nothing about style revoicing or instrumentation.  But it's good to see such a feature on these keyboards.

I wonder if you'll be able to tell the E473/EW425 whether to save a style in a registration or not.  And I'm not talking about the freeze function, but it is similar.  On the previous keyboards, if you hit the "song" button before setting up and saving a registration, then you will not save any style data to the registration, which is how to implement a freeze on keyboards such as my E433.  Since no style data is saved to the registration, then the currently-playing style will not be changed when that registration is called up.

The freeze function on the E473/EW425 accomplishes that, but with the revoicing options, it might still be nice to have this ability to apply this sort of freeze to individual registrations.  Why?  Well, let's say you set up a few registrations with custom revoiced styles -- remember that revoiced styles will not be memorized in the keyboard unless you save them to a registration.  If you want to recall those revoiced styles, then obviously, you need to have style-freeze turned off when calling up the registrations with your custom styles.  But now, with style-freeze turned off, if you want to call up other registrations to change the sound while playing those custom styles, then the concern is that calling up those other registrations for the sounds, will also call up the style information stored in those registrations, which would then stop your custom style from playing.  Whereas if you can tell the other registrations (the ones where you only want voice information) to not save style data (like what can be done on the older models), then you can have a few registrations with your custom revoiced styles to use to call up those styles, and then call up just voice settings with the other registrations while using your custom styles.

Otherwise, to accomplish this, you'd have to have style-freeze turned off to call up the registrations with your custom styles, and then turn on style-freeze before you start playing a song -- and then do the same thing again every time you want to use another registration with a custom revoiced style.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on January 30, 2022, 07:00:02 AM
Oh one thing I am also curious about is when loading styles onto the new psr e473 did Yamaha increase the style file size limit or is it still 50kb. I was curious 😎
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: overover on January 30, 2022, 12:06:14 PM
Oh one thing I am also curious about is when loading styles onto the new psr e473 did Yamaha increase the style file size limit or is it still 50kb. I was curious 😎

The size of style files is still limited to a maximum of 50 KB (kilobytes).

Quote from the E473/EW425 Owner's Manual, page 55:

The maximum size of a single Style file is 50 KB. Files that
exceed this limit will not be recognized by the instrument.


Best regards,
Chris
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on January 30, 2022, 11:56:43 PM
Oh ok. Thanks.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on February 01, 2022, 01:06:05 AM
OK, I caved and bought a CT-S1000V.  :D  I sacrificed the SHS-500 Sonogenic as it didn't really fit my original purpose. The guys at the store were having a blast with it when I left!

No I'm not abandoning Yamaha nor am I planning to post how much better my keyboard is.  :)

Much to try and learn as a lot of the functionality is down in the menu tree somewhere...

All the best -- pj
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: SciNote on February 01, 2022, 04:05:18 AM
OK, I caved and bought a CT-S1000V.  :D  I sacrificed the SHS-500 Sonogenic as it didn't really fit my original purpose. The guys at the store were having a blast with it when I left!

No I'm not abandoning Yamaha nor am I planning to post how much better my keyboard is.  :)

Much to try and learn as a lot of the functionality is down in the menu tree somewhere...

All the best -- pj

Sounds great!  Let us know how well it works and how the key-feel is.  And if you get a chance, please test out whether you can save knob changes to a registration.  Basically, just take one of the sounds, then make some obvious changes to the sound with the filter and/or envelope generator with the knobs (of course, you have to first assign the knobs to those functions) -- changes dramatic enough that there would be no way you could mistake your new sound for the original sound that you selected.  Then, just save that sound to a registration.  Next, just to make sure everything is cleared, call up a different registration, then call up the registration you saved with your new sound -- then test it out.  Does it sound like the dramatically different sound you just created with the filter and/or envelope generator?  Or does it just sound like the original sound, with no filter or envelope changes?

I did join the Casio forum as suggested by Vinciane, and I posed this question.  I was told that the changes are saved to the registration, but I'm still curious, as those functions are not listed in the manual as to what is saved in a registration.  But then again, with the Yamaha PSR-E473 and EW425, the section of the manual that lists the parameters that can be saved to a registration does not list style revoicings, even though those are saved to a registration, based on the reference manual.  So, it could just be something that Casio overlooked in the manual.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: casiokid on February 01, 2022, 08:37:27 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWzkUwlm-AY
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: casiokid on February 01, 2022, 01:16:31 PM
Am I right in thinking that although you can change Style Parts on the E473 you cannot adjust their individual volume ?
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on February 01, 2022, 06:38:44 PM
@PJ: Cant wait to hear your first impressions  8)

@SciNote:

And if you get a chance, please test out whether you can save knob changes to a registration. 

No need to test, you can. The manual says that clear and loud on page 140 and 141 as well as on page 170. You can save the parameter values that you tweaked with the knobs either in one of the four Setup slots or in one of the reg memory slots.

@Casiokid:

Am I right in thinking that although you can change Style Parts on the E473 you cannot adjust their individual volume ?

You’re right indeed. The only thing you can do is activate or mute a style track you don’t want to hear using the track buttons under the screen. On this website, though, you can find plenty of software software to help you tweak styles to your liking.

Vinciane
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on February 01, 2022, 06:52:06 PM
Quote
Let us know how well it works and how the key-feel is.  And if you get a chance, please test out whether you can save knob changes to a registration.

Hi Bob --

As to trying registrations, not to worry. I have a bunch of split/layer registrations to build and, at the very least, need to dial down reverb, if needed.

Quote
Can't wait to hear your first impressions.

Hello Vinciane --

I started writing first impressions and realized that it was too much for a PSR-focused forum. I posted first impressions here:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/casio-ct-s1000v-first-impressions/

Quote
I did join the Casio forum as suggested by Vinciane

I probably should, too, although the last thing I need is another forum.  ;) I started lurking there recently -- enough to know that Vinciane is a star.  ;D

Best to everyone -- pj
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: casiokid on February 01, 2022, 07:05:18 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF6FcS-Wkl8
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: SciNote on February 01, 2022, 11:50:38 PM
@PJ: Cant wait to hear your first impressions  8)

@SciNote:

And if you get a chance, please test out whether you can save knob changes to a registration. 

No need to test, you can. The manual says that clear and loud on page 140 and 141 as well as on page 170. You can save the parameter values that you tweaked with the knobs either in one of the four Setup slots or in one of the reg memory slots.

@Casiokid:

Am I right in thinking that although you can change Style Parts on the E473 you cannot adjust their individual volume ?

You’re right indeed. The only thing you can do is activate or mute a style track you don’t want to hear using the track buttons under the screen. On this website, though, you can find plenty of software software to help you tweak styles to your liking.

Vinciane

I'm looking on pages 140, 141, and 170 of the Casio CTS1000V manual, and I am seeing the same thing that I saw before.  When referring to the knobs, in both places in the manual, it states that what is saved is:

Knob Type (K1, K2, K3)
Knob Effect Part (UPPER1, UPPER2, and LOWER for each of the knobs: K1, K2, K3)
--- the text "for each of the knobs: K1, K2, K3" is omitted in the section on registrations
Knob K1-K2 Link

My understanding of all this is: Knob Type is simply what those knobs are assigned to control (filter cutoff, envelope, modulation, etc), but not the actual values of the parameters you set (similar to the knob-assign function on the PSR-E series).  Knob Effect Part is what part of the keyboard will be affected by the use of the knobs (similar to how the E473/EW425 can set what part of the keyboard is affected by DSP2).  And Knob K1-K2 Link is a program that, when you select a function for K1, the keyboard will automatically select a related function for K2 -- for example, I would imagine that if you have this Link feature on, then if you select filter cutoff for K1, then K2 will automatically be assigned filter resonance, regardless of what it was previously assigned.  What I believe they are describing here is that a registration can store whether you want this Link function on or off.

Please highlight what I might be missing, because while these functions of the knobs can be saved, I still see nothing showing that the actual values/parameters you set with these knobs -- at least for filter and envelope generator -- get saved.  I would not be surprised if it is just an omission in the manual, just like how Yamaha did not list style revoicings in the list of functions stored in registrations in that section of the manual.  I am also having trouble determining the full difference between a registration and a set-up -- I'm sure there are differences, but they seem similar.

As for the E473/EW425, I just realized something a bit disappointing, though not necessarily deal-breaking.  The live control knobs can not be set to change the envelope attack and release!  Now, to be clear, attack and release are still there for the main and dual voice, and it appears that they can be saved to a registration, but you now have to go into the function list to access these parameters, and then you have to adjust them separately for the main and dual voice.  Many times, you'd want different settings for the main and dual voice, anyway, but the ability to change those functions by the knobs during a live performance is a nice feature to have -- and it also helps more quickly dial in the sound you want if you are trying to synthesize a patch.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on February 02, 2022, 12:51:11 AM
Hi Bob --

I mangled an oboe voice ("tone" in Casio-speak) and it stored/recalled things almost correctly. It stored and recalled the changed cut-off value. What's weird though, is it didn't seem to change the modulation setting (knob 3) when I pulled up another voice. A bug maybe?

Tried making my first split/layer (lower, upper 1 + upper 2). Accidentally overwrote my first try -- whoops! Changing the layer tone and the upper 2 tone seemed a little byzantine. Maybe I'll get used to it. Seems like it won't change the second layer voice unless split is OFF. Weird. Maybe another UI thing that needs refinement?

Actually played a little gospel piano -- which is not really my main instrument (organ). It was more pleasant to play piano on the CT than the MODX. (I detest playing piano on the MODX.)

All the best -- pj
 
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: SciNote on February 03, 2022, 01:19:45 AM
Good -- glad to see that it does save those filter settings, because that would be a serious shortcoming if it did not.  Not sure what is going on with it not changing the modulation setting when you called up a new sound.  Two things that come to mind...

1.  Is that something that can be "frozen"?  I'm not looking at the manual right now, but I saw that this keyboard can "freeze" numerouns parameters.

2.  Not likely, but maybe the default modulation of the new voice you called up is the same as what you previously set it to?  In that case, the modulation would not change when calling up the new voice -- but yes, that is a long shot.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on February 03, 2022, 09:37:09 AM
Cool. oh and if Yamaha made the psr e473 where you could also change the style channel volume that would have been nice too.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on February 03, 2022, 10:15:40 AM
Well... if you need this function you should maybe consider the PSR SX600. Don't forget that the E473 is an entry level keyboard. They added style revoicing to the new functions, which is already something great (I usually hate the default bass sound on the styles of the PSR E4xx so at least I can now choose another bass).

Regards,

Vinciane
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: casiokid on February 03, 2022, 12:32:22 PM
You can re-voice a style on the Korg EK-50 just like you can on the E473
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on February 04, 2022, 02:08:28 AM
Agree. At least the revoicing itself being able to do just that is a huge improvement imo.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: tomsixtwo on February 04, 2022, 09:57:16 AM
I started writing first impressions and realized that it was too much for a PSR-focused forum. I posted first impressions here:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/casio-ct-s1000v-first-impressions/

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your blog. sandsoftwaresound.net is one of my regular go-to places on the web. The selection of the topics and the balance between music, technology and nerdiness is second to none. Exactly my kind of thing.

With great interest I have read your latest contribution to the CT-S1000V, which is already online.

Keep up the good work!

Tom
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on February 04, 2022, 06:23:28 PM
Hi Tom --

Thanks for the kind words! If I don't write this stuff down, I forget it.  ;D

Peace -- pj
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: SciNote on February 06, 2022, 01:21:23 AM
Paul, I saw your post on the other forum :-)

Maybe I should ask this there, but I'm really getting the feeling that they don't like too many questions.  They even had a limit to the number of posts I could place in a day -- and it was like 2!  We'll see how it goes.

Anyway, since I know you have one of these keyboards, I'm curious -- We established that, on the Casio CTS 500/1000V, with DSP on, one of the knobs can be set to be a slow/fast Leslie switch.  And I know you can hold the function of the knobs to DSP parameters for when you change sounds or do something else.  But can you mix the knobs with DSP and non DSP functions?  For example, could K1 be Leslie speed, and K2 be filter cutoff?  Or maybe K1 and K2 be filter cutoff and resonance, while K3 is Leslie speed?

Otherwise, I'm getting the feeling that these keyboards are like being inside your house, and right outside, there is a brilliant world filled with rainbows, unicorns, and puppy dogs -- but you can only see it all through a small peep-hole in your door!  I feel like that with the Casios -- all of these great features -- filter, programmable DSP, Leslie speed up and slow down, various style and registration controls -- but you can only get to it all through a few dedicated buttons and soft keys, and you have to keep switching between different menus for the soft keys to access the function you want.  Since you have the keyboard, what do you think?
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: vbdx66 on February 06, 2022, 07:37:32 AM
Hi Bob, two points here:

1) I am very surprised that you were limited to two posts a day in the Casio Music Forums, I have never been aware if such a limitation. Like in our Forum here, they have a space where you can ask questions pertaining to the forum itself and usually these questions get thorough answers.

2) Yep. I am feeling exactly as you do about Casio keyboards. I was very excited when the CT-X3000 and 5000 appeared - soudwise they were great. I had the 3000 during a couple of weeks, too - great sounds, nice keybed, very complicated UI. I then had the PSR E463 for a couple of weeks but I had the feeling the sounds were a bit dated and I sent it back. I ended buying the CT-X800 which I still have.

The problem with these Casio's is that you have to program everything beforehand and store your favourite settings in registrations because the function you need are hidden into sub menus. This doesn't allow for much spontaneity.

It is too bad the PSR E473/EW425 got such a lousy launching campaign. I think that they probably deserve more love than what they're getting. If I were active in Yamaha's marketing department I would hurry a sexier demonstration campaign with live artists etc. like Casio did for the CT-S500/1000V. Hope we will get that in the forthcoming weeks.

In the meantime, I am very curious to hear PJ's feedback about the CT-S1000V.

Regards,

Vinciane.

Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on February 06, 2022, 10:57:02 PM
Good heavens, please don't wait on me.  ;D Especially while the Olympics are on TV.

As to the knobs, switches and tiny window into (or out of) the world, the CT-S1000V is limited in that way. I was playing with Active DSP and rotary parameters when I came to the same conclusion -- it's either effect parameters via the knobs OR it's tone parameters via the knobs. That could be a deal-breaker for folks who want to access both kinds of parameters simultaneously.

Casio would have (should have?) used a two-level scheme -- assign knob to CC# and assign a parameter to CC#. If the CC# is the same, then the knob and parameter rendezvous.

The situation is similar to all those synth folks wanting a zillion front panel knobs and switches for control. If a customer can live within the limitations, then OK. It's definitely not for everybody.

The CT-S1000V approach is kinda modal. The simple front panel and small number of knobs/switches keeps their cost very low. (I suspect they are even re-using printed circuit boards across models.) It does mean a lot of button pressing and menu diving...

Hope to get back to music stuff tomorrow -- pj
 
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: SciNote on February 07, 2022, 12:27:30 AM
Paul, thanks for the update and clarification!  I had a feeling that it would be either tone control OR DSP but not a mixture.

Then again, the E473/EW425 are like that as well -- the knob assignments can be filter, reverb/chorus, OR DSP controls -- no way to individually assign one knob to, say, the filter cutoff, and the other knob to a DSP parameter.  However, it looks a lot easier to change the knob assignments on the Yamahas -- just push the knob assign button and an assignment number.  No need to go into menus and sub-menus.  One thing that I don't think is clear or stated in the Yamaha manual is whether repeated pushing of the knob assignment button will advance through the selections, such as on my E433.  I suspect not -- as the E433 does not have the ability to jump from one knob assignment template to another by hitting a number key.  You can only repeatedly push the assignment button until you get to the template you want.  It is a bummer that they removed the envelope generator from the knob assignment templates on the new models.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: Keyboard Master on February 07, 2022, 03:33:28 AM
Cool. 8) I was also curious if we can adjust the Reverb Paramaters like make the tail longer (Reverb Time). If not that;s ok.
Title: Re: Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.
Post by: pjd on February 08, 2022, 06:03:11 PM
I had a feeling that it would be either tone control OR DSP but not a mixture.

Hi --

The Lyric Tone parameters might be either/or, too. I need to try.

Quote
I was also curious if we can adjust the Reverb Parameters like make the tail longer (Reverb Time).

On the CT-S1000V, nope. The system effects are reverb, delay and chorus. It's only possible to choose the effect type, no access to the reverb parameters like time, high damp, etc. I think this is a serious oversight. At the very least, I like to look at the parameter values to sort out Room1 vs. Room2 vs. Room3... 

All the best -- pj