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Genos (12 Boards) => Genos - General => Topic started by: guitpic1 on April 01, 2021, 06:11:48 PM

Title: Genos 2
Post by: guitpic1 on April 01, 2021, 06:11:48 PM
I’m starting to see posts on Facebook re: Genos 2

Real?  Fake?

April Fools?

I’m not talking about V2.0 OS.  This was a video clip from Europe.

😊
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Normanfernandez on April 01, 2021, 07:49:32 PM
Probably fake  ;D
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Gunnar Jonny on April 01, 2021, 09:01:16 PM
I’m starting to see posts on Facebook re: Genos 2

Real?  Fake?

April Fools?

Most likely a Real April Fool. 😁🎵🎹
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: EileenL on April 01, 2021, 10:32:20 PM
False as usual.
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: guitpic1 on April 03, 2021, 08:30:40 AM
Thx All
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: mikf on April 03, 2021, 10:27:53 AM
What person thinks  this is important enough to enough spend time making fake pictures and posting them? Unless you are a dealer, how many people actually care about knowing ahead of time what a keyboard might look like??

Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Toril S on April 03, 2021, 03:38:21 PM
Many strange hobbies out there😀
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: ugawoga on April 04, 2021, 10:44:40 PM
Put those handcuffs away Toril ;D
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Toril S on April 04, 2021, 10:46:30 PM
😀😀😀
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: tyrosman on April 05, 2021, 10:56:27 AM
very fake
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Bachus on April 05, 2021, 08:03:52 PM
2025 at earliest..
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: DJIncendration on May 23, 2021, 04:33:39 PM
I’m starting to see posts on Facebook re: Genos 2

Real?  Fake?

April Fools?

I’m not talking about V2.0 OS.  This was a video clip from Europe.

😊
I'm guessing it will come out sometime soon. There are quite a few voices on the SX900 that aren't on the Genos, even with the Superior Pack, such as the SixtiesGuitar, HalfWahLead and the Vibes&JazzGuitar.
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Fred Smith on May 23, 2021, 04:48:17 PM
I'm guessing it will come out sometime soon. There are quite a few voices on the SX900 that aren't on the Genos, even with the Superior Pack, such as the SixtiesGuitar, HalfWahLead and the Vibes&JazzGuitar.

I'm in between you and Bachus. I say 2023 for Genos 2. Hopefully the "2" means it will support midi 2.0.

Cheers,
Fred
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: DJIncendration on May 26, 2021, 12:17:18 AM
I hope that whenever it does come out, there will be more Revo!drums/SFX. The Genos 1 has 7 Revo!Drums and 3 Revo!SFX, while the PSR-A5000 has 20 Revo!SFX. I understand that the A5000 is focused on world content, but I was surprised that it has more Revo!SFX than even the flagship Genos.
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Bachus on May 29, 2021, 07:23:01 AM
I'm in between you and Bachus. I say 2023 for Genos 2. Hopefully the "2" means it will support midi 2.0.

Cheers,
Fred

There is no indication Yamaha will support the midi 2.0 ,  its mostly a Roland thing.
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: danand on May 29, 2021, 10:40:35 AM
I say 2023 for Genos 2
Hey... they don't create a spaceship in order to travel to Mars!!!!
4 year are more than enough...
It is quite probably to see the new version before Christmas (Nov 2021)
My 2 cents in any case, I don't have "inside" information.
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Bachus on May 29, 2021, 08:00:09 PM
Hey... they don't create a spaceship in order to travel to Mars!!!!
4 year are more than enough...
It is quite probably to see the new version before Christmas (Nov 2021)
My 2 cents in any case, I don't have "inside" information.

Peter Baartmans said that product lifetime of the Genos will be atleast 5 years.. and probably longer..

This is on par what the competition is doing..

Just some numbers of cureent top models..

Yamaha Montage 5 years and counting
Yamaha Motif XF 6 years
Korg PA4x 6 years and counting
Korg Kronos 10 years and counting
roland Fantom X 12 years

Technollogy advancement in keyboard land has almost come to a halt, thats why time between models is much longer then a decade ago.
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Bachus on May 30, 2021, 03:53:19 PM
But my question is: do we really need a Genos 2 at the moment?

(or can the current one be pushed even further?)

No, we don’t need a Genos2 yet, certainly not the way Yamaha does updates..

I can name dozens of possible updates to Genos, but time also learned me we will not see them from Yamaha Europe.

What we can expect is a major software patch each year for the current Genos.
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: soryt on May 30, 2021, 09:17:49 PM
I realy need a new one , with al the improvements i mentionned before , and a lot better hardware and surface wich suits his ridicilus high price  ( now)

Soneg  ;D
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Pincho Paxton on May 31, 2021, 11:30:34 AM
If I was Yamaha I wouldn't call it Genos 2 anyway. You had Tyros, then Genos, so the name would perhaps change again. Probably something like Zavos? Xenos?
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Bachus on May 31, 2021, 09:16:48 PM
If I was Yamaha I wouldn't call it Genos 2 anyway. You had Tyros, then Genos, so the name would perhaps change again. Probably something like Zavos? Xenos?

You had Tyros 1 to 5, all looked alike
Guess whats next and what it will look like?
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Lee Batchelor on May 31, 2021, 10:22:42 PM
Whatever Yamaha decides is fine with me EXCEPT for the new Genos, I hope they listen to all the user comments about the cheap finish and poor grade of buttons.

The symbols are starting to fade on my most used buttons - for the first time in about 9 different models!! When you own a PSR 740 and the finish and buttons outlast a keyboard that costs four time as much, there's something really wrong.

Whoever the genius is at Yamaha who authorized the reduced physical quality of the Genos, they need to be fired. It was a terrible move, all to save $3 or $4 dollars per unit.
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Pincho Paxton on June 01, 2021, 12:15:26 AM
Whatever Yamaha decides is fine with me EXCEPT for the new Genos, I hope they listen to all the user comments about the cheap finish and poor grade of buttons.

The symbols are starting to fade on my most used buttons - for the first time in about 9 different models!! When you own a PSR 740 and the finish and buttons outlast a keyboard that costs four time as much, there's something really wrong.

Whoever the genius is at Yamaha who authorized the reduced physical quality of the Genos, they need to be fired. It was a terrible move, all to save $3 or $4 dollars per unit.

Glad I'm playing mine by MIDI, it will stay new forever!!!
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Lee Batchelor on June 01, 2021, 01:58:46 AM
Glad I'm playing mine by MIDI, it will stay new forever!!!
Now, why didn't I think of that?! Of course, the old saying among musicians still holds. "If you're gear is in pristine condition, you're not playing enough." ;D
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: EileenL on June 01, 2021, 12:03:18 PM
I play mine a lot but pleased to say buttons are still good.
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: ugawoga on June 01, 2021, 01:09:57 PM
Hi Eileen and Lee

All my buttons are good except for the forward slash on the start button( Completely disappeared . Also a thin bottom line on the number 2 registration button)
Still got a year guarantee left, so i will wait until a couple of months left to either get a new button or accept it.
If a new Genos comes out next year i will let it go.
If i did give it back to E-Piano's Banbury .how long would it be gone for?? That is the problem. :-\
For Lee i would get something done about it if quite a few buttons are fading.
I was lucky to have a 5 year guarantee.

All the best
John
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: danand on June 02, 2021, 12:42:34 PM
Peter Baartmans said that product lifetime of the Genos will be atleast 5 years.. and probably longer..

Maybe, on the other hand ALL Tyros updates last 3 years from one model yo another.
• Tyros (1 May 2002)
• Tyros2 (21 June 2005)
• Tyros3 (17 April 2008)
• Tyros4 (16 June 2010)
• Tyros5 (13 July 2013)

Maybe the new release doesn't include all the updates users want, but Yamaha will release it in any case...
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Lee Batchelor on June 02, 2021, 01:19:34 PM
Hi Eileen and Lee

All my buttons are good except for the forward slash on the start button( Completely disappeared . Also a thin bottom line on the number 2 registration button)
Still got a year guarantee left, so i will wait until a couple of months left to either get a new button or accept it.
If a new Genos comes out next year i will let it go.
If i did give it back to E-Piano's Banbury .how long would it be gone for?? That is the problem. :-\
For Lee i would get something done about it if quite a few buttons are fading.
I was lucky to have a 5 year guarantee.

All the best
John
Five year warranty, John? We don't get that in Canada because...well, it's Canada - perhaps too soft a market for Yamaha, despite the fact that we produce some of the greatest entertainers in the world who often use Yamaha instruments.

We're also last to get any new product releases and only receive a one year warranty. It really sours me when a company plays favorites like that. I live close to Toronto. Upper New York state is just 50 km across the lake from me and they received the first release of the Genos keyboards 6 months ahead of us. I spoke with our Canadian Yamaha rep when I was waiting for my new Genos. She told me they were still 4 months away for me and then proceeded to brag how she just loved her new Genos. Yamaha seemed quite content to afford her one months ahead of her customers. Sure enough, four months later, I received my Genos - the second one to arrive in Canada. I hope when Genos 2 arrives, Yamaha gives us more consideration and not treat us like second class players. What was the topic again :-\?

Five year warranty? Must be nice ;D!
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: alans on June 02, 2021, 04:56:21 PM
Lee,the 5 year guarantee is a dealer extended guarantee,not Yamaha, I bought a Genos from E-pianos also and  got the 5 year deal
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Lee Batchelor on June 02, 2021, 05:45:12 PM
Didn't know that, alans. My dealer offers extended warranties but it costs a fair amount. I assume John also paid for his? He said, "I was lucky to have a 5 year guarantee." He didn't mention where he got it from. I assumed Yamaha ;D.
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: ugawoga on June 03, 2021, 08:12:26 PM
Hi Lee
The guarantee came from E-pianos in uk and i assumed it was a Yamaha offer from the dealer
I rang up  E pianos and if it is a dealers guarantee there may be a clause in it .
I had a word with the main owner of the shop and he said it is general wear because some people have acidity in their fingers. It is a manufacturing fault in my eyes.
I did not get a ,oh well we will look at it and repair it. I got to send in a photograph, then he will discuss it with Yamaha.
So they may have a get out clause for people with acidity in their fingers. Who knows. I always wash my hands before playing as this stops fingers sliding off the black notes.
Ok, I have just a forward slash that has almost gone and not much to worry about, but it would be nice if you got a straight positive to say we could get that renewed for you.
on a £5000 keyboard it is a bit wrong to have buttons wearing out because of cheap printing like on my HP £12 computer keyboard.
Things have gone down hill when the keyboards changed from Japan to China.
On the Tyros the print was inside the plastic.
Another thing is that i do not like the cheap wobbly Song A   -   Song B slider. weak rubbish.
I suppose Lee that when a new Genos arrives you will still get a good price on it being 4 -5 years old.
Better than depreciation on a car ,so chin up.

All the Best
John :)
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Lee Batchelor on June 04, 2021, 01:56:54 AM
Fully agreed, John. If Yamaha has the savvy to produce such a remarkable instrument, surely to God they can deal with a broad spectrum of peoples' varied body chemistries. They proved that with the Tyros and PSR series.

Even those who enjoy a more balanced or neutral finger chemistry will exhibit a short term shift under the pressure of playing in front of an audience, regardless of a lack of stage fright. Look at Oscar Peterson and Fats Domino. I have yet to see a video of either one of them where they didn't bring a towel on stage during their performances. Now, that's real sweat!

No my friend, someone at the top decided to show off what they learned in marketing school by convincing management to save $5 per keyboard by means of changing what worked in the past. This is not only true of Yamaha in this case but all the big players. This new generation of managers have become profit junkies. Good thing this same attitude wasn't used in the sound designs ;D!
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Toril S on June 04, 2021, 11:33:15 AM
Agreed!
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Bachus on June 04, 2021, 12:36:09 PM
Maybe, on the other hand ALL Tyros updates last 3 years from one model yo another.
• Tyros (1 May 2002)
• Tyros2 (21 June 2005)
• Tyros3 (17 April 2008)
• Tyros4 (16 June 2010)
• Tyros5 (13 July 2013)

Maybe the new release doesn't include all the updates users want, but Yamaha will release it in any case...

Thats old thinking, The 3 years between keyboard updates is long gone..  Genos 2, late 2023 at earliest, but could as well be 2025.. 
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: soundphase on June 04, 2021, 01:44:48 PM
It's for me time now to have new sound banks with more details like the one what we can find on computers.
The Genos must really become the keyboard for soundtracks composer.

I would personnally prefer to have 500 new perfect acoustic/electric sounds instead of having 2500 of old one.
That would consume more memory. So, I expect before all a new Genos with far more memory and SSD storage, and new sound banks (and if possible the removal of the awful transitions "issues" between registrations when we don't choose carefully each sound for each part)

I'm quite sure the Genos has already CPU&DSP capacities  for this.

... And I bet the new algorithms on drums will also be applied on samples for acoustic sounds on Genos 2.

The fact that Yamaha expansions are free is a sign for me, it's difficult for Yamaha to continue to sell individual sounds with this "2010 years" quality.
They prefer their Genos/Tyros customers to be satisfied to get these packs free, instead of letting them buying samples from other companies.


Regards
Soundphase
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Lee Batchelor on June 04, 2021, 03:26:32 PM
It's for me time now to have new sound banks with more details like the one what we can find on computers.
The Genos must really become the keyboard for soundtracks composer.

I would personally prefer to have 500 new perfect acoustic/electric sounds instead of having 2500 of old one.
That would consume more memory. So, I expect before all a new Genos with far more memory and SSD storage, and new sound banks (and if possible the removal of the awful transitions "issues" between registrations when we don't choose carefully each sound for each part)

I'm quite sure the Genos has already CPU&DSP capacities  for this.

... And I bet the new algorithms on drums will also be applied on samples for acoustic sounds on Genos 2.

The fact that Yamaha expansions are free is a sign for me, it's difficult for Yamaha to continue to sell individual sounds with this "2010 years" quality.
They prefer their Genos/Tyros customers to be satisfied to get these packs free, instead of letting them buying samples from other companies.
Regards
Soundphase
Agreed! In a lot of cases, several of the Genos styles are the same as the Tyros series but with the newer voices applied. It's time to retire these Tyros styles to a legacy bank somewhere in the Genos and build some new ones from scratch. I know that costs money but we are paying top dollar for this keyboard.

I'm still a proponent of having far better piano voices. It's the mainstay voice of any keyboard. The Genos pianos have improved but are still below par. Nord added a dedicated 1GB of RAM to accommodate their updated piano voices. Then, they gave us additional piano voices that we could download for free. I know I'm comparing apples to oranges here but there are enough commonalities in the two keyboards to justify better piano sounds for the Genos.
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Pincho Paxton on June 04, 2021, 03:37:40 PM
I would like Registration change at end of beat option the same as styles, plus the best Pianos.
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Lee Batchelor on June 04, 2021, 04:54:55 PM
I would like Registration change at end of beat option the same as styles, plus the best Pianos.
Agreed!!!
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: danand on June 04, 2021, 06:19:31 PM
Thats old thinking, The 3 years between keyboard updates is long gone..  Genos 2, late 2023 at earliest, but could as well be 2025..

What ever you say... I'm sure that you know everything about everything and the rest of us are nothing but "old thinkers".
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Bachus on June 04, 2021, 06:42:11 PM
What ever you say... I'm sure that you know everything about everything and the rest of us are nothing but "old thinkers".

Thats an odd opinion?

I told you its not an opinion, it was said by Peter Baartmans at several demonstrations here in Holland. genos will have a production cycle of atleast 5 years..

But then who is Peter Baartmans to make such bold statements?


Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: ugawoga on June 05, 2021, 02:29:42 PM
Hi
It is all about supply and demand and also what the opposition are doing.
Business does not love the people , it loves making money ;D
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Bachus on June 05, 2021, 09:24:21 PM
Hi
It is all about supply and demand and also what the opposition are doing.
Business does not love the people , it loves making money ;D

Its not just supply and demand...

But you are right its all about making as much money as possible.

In ths buiseness where demand is not extremely high..
They need every trick in the book to make it worthwhile..
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Pincho Paxton on June 06, 2021, 12:53:06 PM
It seems to me that you would make more money changing the name completely than calling it Genos 2. Would you want both Genos 1, and Genos 2? Or would you want Genos 1, and Xenos?

To me I could only have two keyboards named differently even though its psychological.
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Lee Batchelor on June 06, 2021, 01:57:23 PM
The Tyros series ran successfully with five identical names. To your point Pincho, I think the next arranger will be more of a crossover between the conventional arranger and the Montage. It seems we older users who like to take our keyboards out for an afternoon of entertainment at a retirement home, or simply playing the Genos in our den or living room, are becoming fewer. If I'm right, such a jump would not have us seeing the next keyboard until at least 2024.

By "crossover" I mean an arranger with far more editing and recording tools. Hopefully, it will provide a less convoluted process for recording to a DAW. It's not bad now, after you figure it out, but there are still too many hoops to jump through.

From a voice and style editing point of view, it would be nice to have full integration with a desktop computer and easy to use software versus having to do everything on a tiny touchscreen.

These are just my speculations and dreams ;D.
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: MadrasGiaguari on June 06, 2021, 06:34:16 PM
Dear Eileen,

nice to hear that your Genos buttons are still in a good shape.

May I ask you how old is your Genos?

Thank you,

Angelo
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Bachus on June 06, 2021, 08:21:31 PM
Dear Eileen,

nice to hear that your Genos buttons are still in a good shape.

May I ask you how old is your Genos?

Thank you,

Angelo

She got hers at release day..

Mine is just as old, and still looks like on day 1
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Toril S on June 06, 2021, 08:57:06 PM
My buttons are still OK, but I have some shiny spots around often used buttons. The matt black surface of the Genos is prone to this! It has been discussed here several times.
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: EileenL on June 06, 2021, 11:01:10 PM
Yes Bachus is right. I have had mine since release. I do quite a bit of editing on it so it gets well used and still looks as good as it did when new.
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Lee Batchelor on June 06, 2021, 11:12:25 PM
Yes Bachus is right. I have had mine since release. I do quite a bit of editing on it so it gets well used and still looks as good as it did when new.
You're lucky, Eileen. A lot of us have those shiny spots Toril mentioned AND fading buttons. You must have perfect body chemistry :). Does it come from clean living or all that tea you folks drink ;D?

Side note - I love reading Eileen's posts. No matter how dark the room gets, she always finds a way to raise the blinds!
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Toril S on June 06, 2021, 11:28:05 PM
Agreed! We love Eileen. Always willing to help and encourage us❤️
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Lee Batchelor on June 07, 2021, 02:53:23 AM
Agreed! We love Eileen. Always willing to help and encourage us❤️
Right again. What will we all do when she decides to sell her Genos and buy a Roland :o??!!
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Jeff Hollande on June 07, 2021, 12:43:14 PM


I have been told there will not come a Genos2 at all but a new high end arranger made by Korg and Yamaha together.

As usual, no doubt in my mind, this news must be fake again. 😜

Best regards,  JH
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Lee Batchelor on June 07, 2021, 12:54:31 PM
Good one, Jeff! Seeing Yamaha and Korg co-design and produce a keyboard is just like the famous Buddy Holly song, "That'll Be The Day" ;D.
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: EileenL on June 07, 2021, 01:47:16 PM
I must admit that I do have a very dry skin and am allergic to Sun UVA UVB and every plant you can mention. My keyboard has been my salvation as it keeps my busy when you are all enjoying yourselves in the sun. :'(
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: mikf on June 07, 2021, 02:00:54 PM
Eileen, it seems that you and Yamaha arrangers are just made for each other! :D :D :D
On a slightly more serious note - one thing I never see on ‘wish’ lists that I believe would be a great improvement, would be the ability to play along with intros and endings - with both hands. I know some novice players might be very happy let the keyboard do the work, but more experienced players don’t like just sitting there looking. The intro and endings currently respond to chord changes so you cannot play along with it without possibly screwing it up. What it needs is programmed so the initial chord triggers the key of the intro, but any subsequent playing does not. This is especially important when you have the keyboard set to full keyboard mode where even rh playing can affect the chord changes.
Mike
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: ckobu on June 07, 2021, 02:07:33 PM
Hi Mike,
An INTRO in which both hands need to be played can be made. Listen to one example, in the first part you will hear INTRO without changing the chord, and in the second part you will hear how it really sounds.

https://youtu.be/YJckfpXZpf0 (https://youtu.be/YJckfpXZpf0)
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: mikf on June 07, 2021, 02:20:08 PM
Not the same thing because what I am hearing here is really no different from playing your own intro over a main variation. I was referring to playing along with an intro with chord changes built in. For example, I have this very nice style for the Nat Cole song Unforgettable. It is a pretty decent version of the intro on his recording, but not only is it quite long, so I find it awkward to just sit there, but I know I could add to it. But you can’t play along, because of course it would immediately screw it up.
Mike
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: ckobu on June 07, 2021, 02:32:51 PM
Hi Mike,
I'm not sure I understand what you need.
OK, it doesn't even matter.

regards, ckobu
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: mikf on June 07, 2021, 03:11:36 PM
Simple cboku, - I don’t like not playing, ie just sitting while the keyboard plays for me. So I don’t normally use intros, I just play my own. But some iconic intros need more than you can do in live playing, like multiple instrument parts, tempo changes etc. In these cases a pre prepared canned intro is great, it can be made to sound just like the original recording  - but then you can’t play while it plays.
I would like the intro to act more like a hybrid midi, you trigger it with a chord in the correct key, then it plays and transitions to the main variation like any intro now, BUT while it is playing you can play along without it being altered by your playing. Endings ditto.
Mike
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: overover on June 07, 2021, 07:19:34 PM
Hi Mike,

you could set the Left Split Point to a higher note (i.e. not to the same note as the Style Split Point). Then you can play the Left part in the keyboard area between the Style control section and the Right section. The fingering type should of course not be set to "Full Keyboard", but rather to Fingered or AI Fingered, for example.

If you want, you could just put the above into Registration #1 and then (after the Intro) use Registration #2 to switch the fingering to "Full Keyboard" and/or change the Left Split Point again.


Best regards,
Chris
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: mikf on June 07, 2021, 09:37:20 PM
Chris - I have a CVP and normally use full keyboard setting, so not perfect, but yes, that would be a possible workaround. But I think my suggestion would be an overall improvement that others could like. And I can’t see any downside because there are hardly any circumstances where people need to drive chord changes while an intro is playing. In fact even touching the keyboard by accident while the intro is playing can screw it up. So would be nice if Yamaha could implement my suggestion in the future. But unlikely.
Mike
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Amwilburn on July 08, 2021, 07:25:27 PM
Simple cboku, - I don’t like not playing, ie just sitting while the keyboard plays for me. So I don’t normally use intros, I just play my own. But some iconic intros need more than you can do in live playing, like multiple instrument parts, tempo changes etc. In these cases a pre prepared canned intro is great, it can be made to sound just like the original recording  - but then you can’t play while it plays.
I would like the intro to act more like a hybrid midi, you trigger it with a chord in the correct key, then it plays and transitions to the main variation like any intro now, BUT while it is playing you can play along without it being altered by your playing. Endings ditto.
Mike

Completely agree, that's why when I create styles I usually make the intros and endings all 1 chord (so that it can then track my changes). Or no acmp at all for the intros, just drums.

Chris is right, for the built in styles, I usually just set the left to trigger using AI fingered, low split point so you can play above without changing the original chord sequence's starting point (you don't actually need to make a 2nd left split point between the right and the acmp, you can just trigger the sequence with your left hand in the AI fingered part, and then play along using the right hand).

It's cumbersome, yes. There really should be an option/ future implementation where the intros and endings play the built in chord progression if the player doesn't change the chord, but if it detects chord changes, it should then snap to those chords, rather than continuing the original chord progression.

*that* is a change I'd like on future Yamahas; or at least a button that selects Intros/Endings as chord tracking or not.

Mark
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: jwyvern on July 08, 2021, 09:05:22 PM
Quote
"*that* is a change I'd like on future Yamahas; or at least a button that selects Intros/Endings as chord tracking or not."
Do we know what it is that is different in the makeup of intros that causes them to behave differently from Main Variations? Just as an example is it possible there is a special setting in the CASM for this (perhaps which has not been discussed up to now ;))
John
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: ugawoga on July 08, 2021, 11:03:58 PM
I must admit that I do have a very dry skin and am allergic to Sun UVA UVB and every plant you can mention. My keyboard has been my salvation as it keeps my busy when you are all enjoying yourselves in the sun. :'(

Do not worry Eileen , i am 70 now and have dry skin, and a couple of scoriasis patches, on skin, but still like the sun which is good for that condition.
I plaster myself with E45 and for people with scoriasis, Farmology pink gapefruit moistureizer it is best for that condition believe it or not. BOOTs stock it and it has controlled the beastly condition around ears.Now almost gone. Found this out from a great tip in a newspaper column. Just call me FLAKEY!! "Get the bus out Butler"! ;D    (B)lakey.

Anyone who thinks i am mad, it is because i am English!! and i cannot change my medical condition!! 8)

All the Best
John :)
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: ugawoga on July 09, 2021, 05:33:56 PM
Hi Mike,
An INTRO in which both hands need to be played can be made. Listen to one example, in the first part you will hear INTRO without changing the chord, and in the second part you will hear how it really sounds.

https://youtu.be/YJckfpXZpf0 (https://youtu.be/YJckfpXZpf0)

Hi chokbu
I just play the Intro unless it is a special one, then i put the candles on and a bottle of Dr Good!! God knows what i would do for an Outro!! :P ;D
Answer-- Dress up as Batman and jump off the wardrobe!! ;D
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: ugawoga on July 09, 2021, 05:43:06 PM
PUT YER HANDS UP IF YOUR HAPPY!! :D
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: ckobu on July 09, 2021, 05:58:22 PM
Hi chokbu
I just play the Intro unless it is a special one, then i put the candles on and a bottle of Dr Good!! God knows what i would do for an Outro!! :P ;D
Answer-- Dress up as Batman and jump off the wardrobe!! ;D

Batman is OK but I prefer ladies in bikinis.  ;D
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: ugawoga on July 09, 2021, 06:04:48 PM
Batman is OK but I prefer ladies in bikinis.  ;D

Exactly, what do you think is waiting for me on the bed, Wonderwoman!! 8)
Well, we can all dream :).!!
This is only supposed to be light humour!!, but we are in the final of the Euruopen Cup! !! 8)
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: mikf on July 09, 2021, 06:35:50 PM
Well its actually the final of the European Championship - I think the European Cup is a defunct tournament about 20 years ago. And I don't want to burst your bubble but  I imagine the majority of people on this forum haven't heard or care about either of these tournaments! However, I confess I will be watching,
Mike
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: pjd on July 09, 2021, 07:23:26 PM
Quote
"*that* is a change I'd like on future Yamahas; or at least a button that selects Intros/Endings as chord tracking or not."
Do we know what it is that is different in the makeup of intros that causes them to behave differently from Main Variations? Just as an example is it possible there is a special setting in the CASM for this (perhaps which has not been discussed up to now ;))
John

Hi John --

Actually. how intros and endings work is well-understood (at least to style creation nerds.  ;D )

The CASM data determine how transposition rules are applied to each style section. Typically, CASM data for intros and endings are set such that the arranger follows only the root note, i.e., the player chooses the basic "key" and the arranger does the rest. This capability allows for elaborate intros and endings with built-in chord progressions. In main and fill-in sections, the CASM data typically applies a single chord scale to the entire main or fill-in section and the arranger applies both root note transposition and chord shape/scale.

DJ styles, by the way, use intro/ending-like CASM data for all sections. That's why DJ styles follow only the root note and the chord progressions are "baked into" the style.

The proposed feature would make CASM responsive to a front panel button (or whatever). I'm sure Yamaha would like to avoid actually changing the CASM format as that would be a major, major break with the past, possibly requiring an SFF3. That thought must give the developers shudders.

Hope this info helps -- pj
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Lee Batchelor on July 09, 2021, 07:52:54 PM
PJ, where are the CASM settings stored. They were easily visible on the Tyros 5. Where are they on the Genos?
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Amwilburn on July 09, 2021, 09:30:45 PM
The proposed feature would make CASM responsive to a front panel button (or whatever). I'm sure Yamaha would like to avoid actually changing the CASM format as that would be a major, major break with the past, possibly requiring an SFF3. That thought must give the developers shudders.

Hope this info helps -- pj

Not necessarily; I wasn't proposing to create a new way to program chord progressions into a style; I was suggesting a toggle on a future (or even current touchscreen board) that would simply ignore the chord progression data of intros & endings of the existing styles; essentially turning everything into CM7 and allowing free play of your own chord progressions.


Essentially a toggle on a kb rather than running styles through something like "midi to style", as it were, (which flattens all chord progressions)

Yet another style format would give me shudders as well!

Mark
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: pjd on July 09, 2021, 10:14:02 PM
Hi Mark --

I think we're on the same wavelength. I was just leaving open the possibility that something might need to change in the CASM data. Sorry for the confusion.

Just switching out of the Intro to a target section might be enough. Kind of like an early bail out of the Intro instead of waiting for the full Intro to complete.

Thanks for you ideas -- pj
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: pjd on July 09, 2021, 10:31:24 PM
PJ, where are the CASM settings stored. They were easily visible on the Tyros 5. Where are they on the Genos?

Hi Lee --

The CASM settings are stored in the style file itself as the settings are (usually) very style-specific. CASM settings can be changed via Style Creator. On Genos, Style Creator has a screen button labelled "SFF Edit." Real intuitive -- not.  :)

The NTR/NTT for Intro and Ending sections is normally set to Root Transpose / Bypass for the bass, chord1, chord2, pad, phrase1 and phrase2 parts. (Rhythm parts are totally different and are almost always Root Fixed / Bypass. Don't touch 'em.)

So, after choosing Intro 3, change NTR/NTT to either Root Transpose / Melody or Root Transpose / Chord for each style part (bass, chord1, chord2, pad, phrase1, phrase2). Then save the style and see what happens.

Yeah, it's tedious. I just tried this with "SkyPop" Intro 3 and got a fairly musical result! Yet another interesting way to mangle music.  :D

All the best -- pj

Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: jwyvern on July 09, 2021, 10:32:26 PM
Hi pjd, thanks for your response to my questions on what makes the intros/ outros
 "different" :)

John
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: pjd on July 09, 2021, 10:35:23 PM

Aaaay, John, no problem.

As Steely Dan once sang: "The things that pass for knowledge I can't understand."  :)

-- pj
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: pedro_pedroc on July 09, 2021, 10:41:24 PM
Hi, Mike.

I agree with you.
Most of the styles I've created, you need to change the chords along playing the intros and endings... You can check my youtube channel to check (http://www.youtube.com/pedromseleuterio ), most of my custom styles you need to change the chords... For me, automatic intros are artificial, and looks like you're playing with a midi file.

But, it's only my opinion, I respect everyone.

Regards from Brazil,
Pedro

Eileen, it seems that you and Yamaha arrangers are just made for each other! :D :D :D
On a slightly more serious note - one thing I never see on ‘wish’ lists that I believe would be a great improvement, would be the ability to play along with intros and endings - with both hands. I know some novice players might be very happy let the keyboard do the work, but more experienced players don’t like just sitting there looking. The intro and endings currently respond to chord changes so you cannot play along with it without possibly screwing it up. What it needs is programmed so the initial chord triggers the key of the intro, but any subsequent playing does not. This is especially important when you have the keyboard set to full keyboard mode where even rh playing can affect the chord changes.
Mike
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: ckobu on July 09, 2021, 10:49:07 PM
Hi Lee --

The CASM settings are stored in the style file itself as the settings are (usually) very style-specific. CASM settings can be changed via Style Creator. On Genos, Style Creator has a screen button labelled "SFF Edit." Real intuitive -- not.  :)

The NTR/NTT for Intro and Ending sections is normally set to Root Transpose / Bypass for the bass, chord1, chord2, pad, phrase1 and phrase2 parts. (Rhythm parts are totally different and are almost always Root Fixed / Bypass. Don't touch 'em.)

So, after choosing Intro 3, change NTR/NTT to either Root Transpose / Melody or Root Transpose / Chord for each style part (bass, chord1, chord2, pad, phrase1, phrase2). Then save the style and see what happens.

Yeah, it's tedious. I just tried this with "SkyPop" Intro 3 and got a fairly musical result! Yet another interesting way to mangle music.  :D

All the best -- pj

I tried in these 4 videos to explain the SFF (CASM) settings found in Style Creator. I agree, it's tiring.  :(

**********
01. SFF Edit - Source Root/Chord
https://youtu.be/vLGLjvfRJ2s (https://youtu.be/vLGLjvfRJ2s)

02. SFF Edit - NTT/NTR [Root Trans, Root Fixed]
https://youtu.be/Gh0-keHru3A (https://youtu.be/Gh0-keHru3A)

03. SFF Edit - NTT/NTR [Guitar Rule]
https://youtu.be/bJ8Sip05_24 (https://youtu.be/bJ8Sip05_24)

04. SFF Edit - RTR [Hight Key - Note Limit]
https://youtu.be/LnYs0n88g3E (https://youtu.be/LnYs0n88g3E)
********

Many more features can be found in software MagicStyle YA. And it's clearer to work with.
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Lee Batchelor on July 10, 2021, 03:56:11 PM
Thanks for clarifying the CASM stuff guys!
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: ugawoga on July 10, 2021, 06:08:49 PM
Well its actually the final of the European Championship - I think the European Cup is a defunct tournament about 20 years ago. And I don't want to burst your bubble but  I imagine the majority of people on this forum haven't heard or care about either of these tournaments! However, I confess I will be watching,
Mike

What about Rounders . English term for Baseball :) or Netball a Greek term for Bastetball!! 8). "Ill get done for saying that"!! "oh no, I have dug another deep hole"!! ::) :P :-[ ;D

With my half pennies worth, i do think it is easier just to play your own Intros and endings  and make and Intro and ending if they are more involved and you want more realism.
It really is just practice ;D
I thought i could not play Stevie wonders Sir Duke, but determination and practice i got it all in a week. The middle and ending parts are the difficult bits. or the jazzy bits!! ;D
Mr Blue Sky is a difficult arrangement to play, but go for a section at a time and you get there, but you do need multi pads for that especially the old fire hydrant sound and you need just a little vocoding.
I do believe the more you practice the less you rely on Intros and endings.
I do understand if some have difficulties as none of us are 100%. We all have little problems and Intos and endings can be a big help.
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: mikf on July 10, 2021, 07:15:52 PM
Some people are a bit obsessed with making exact copies of original recordings, they want the intro to be note for note, they even want to capture the voices in the arrangement as exact as they can. If that’s  what they like to do, more power to them. But I found that in many years of playing this is hardly ever necessary. Mostly I would play my own intro. There are a few iconic intros people like to hear, like John Lennon’s Imagine, but I never worried too much about being exact. The truth is that hardly anyone has enough of a musical memory to remember it note for note anyway, so close is usually good enough. The other thing is that we don’t have the same vocalist, or backing singers, or maybe no singers at all. So why try to do an exact copy of an intro or arrangement. If they want exact, they could just play the original recording and forget about live music.
Mike
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: ugawoga on July 10, 2021, 08:26:06 PM
Hi
Chokbu's videos are 100%

All the best
John :)
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Siegfried on July 11, 2021, 08:59:29 AM
Only today I came to read this part of the forum.

I also appreciate Eileen very much and her helpfulness.

Therefore, a piece of advice from me for her, even if it is not part of the topic.
We all appreciate playing very much, I can also spend hours on it without going outdoors.

But: Our body needs vitamin D, which is formed under sun exposure from cholesterol under the skin. This should then be supplied. Please not in  high doses but better daily  max  to 1000. This is also the  single  dietary supplement that I would like to recommend to a healthy person.
We still need you for the next 30 years eileen.
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Lee Batchelor on July 11, 2021, 01:58:56 PM
Some people are a bit obsessed with making exact copies of original recordings, they want the intro to be note for note, they even want to capture the voices in the arrangement as exact as they can. If that’s  what they like to do, more power to them. But I found that in many years of playing this is hardly ever necessary. Mostly I would play my own intro. There are a few iconic intros people like to hear, like John Lennon’s Imagine, but I never worried too much about being exact. The truth is that hardly anyone has enough of a musical memory to remember it note for note anyway, so close is usually good enough. The other thing is that we don’t have the same vocalist, or backing singers, or maybe no singers at all. So why try to do an exact copy of an intro or arrangement. If they want exact, they could just play the original recording and forget about live music.
Mike
Well put, Mike.

I believe there are two basic approaches to playing other peoples' music: tribute or cover. With a tribute, you're playing the song note for note, exact same dynamics, same key, and so on. With a cover approach, you're putting your own twist on a song, which gives you a lot more latitude.

However, in some songs, there are signature parts that define the song and if one wanders too far off that path, the song loses its appeal. A good example is the bass line from I Saw Her Standing There (Beatles). McCartney wrote that line as a divorce from all the typical schlock bass lines of the day - root and 5, and walking bass. To this day that bass line challenges even the best bass players. Fortunately, that situation is rare. Most of the time we can put our own spin on a song and enjoy it just as much.

The only time I alter a style is when those special formats like the bass line in I Saw Her Standing There must be altered to give the song an authentic feel. Okay, everyone back to their Genos' for one hour of scales ;D!
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Lee Batchelor on July 11, 2021, 02:05:14 PM
Only today I came to read this part of the forum.

I also appreciate Eileen very much and her helpfulness.

Therefore, a piece of advice from me for her, even if it is not part of the topic.
We all appreciate playing very much, I can also spend hours on it without going outdoors.

But: Our body needs vitamin D, which is formed under sun exposure from cholesterol under the skin. This should then be supplied. Please not in  high doses but better daily  max  to 1000. This is also the  single  dietary supplement that I would like to recommend to a healthy person.
We still need you for the next 30 years eileen.
Agreed. Eileen has been a pillar of knowledge, strength, and impartiality for us all. She knows her stuff and calls it the way it needs to be called. When she writes, it's important, so we should listen.
Keep popping those Vitamin Ds, Eileen!!
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Toril S on July 11, 2021, 05:03:30 PM
Lee, be kind! One hour of scales?😀😀😀
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Lee Batchelor on July 11, 2021, 06:46:13 PM
Yes, that does seem like a lot, Toril! How about 60 seconds instead of 60 minutes ;D?
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: Toril S on July 11, 2021, 07:24:23 PM
Much better😀😀😀
Title: Re: Genos 2
Post by: EileenL on July 11, 2021, 07:47:46 PM
Hello Siegfried,
  Perhaps I did not make it clear but I can not go out in the Sun and have special film on my windows so I do not burn through the glass. I take vitamin D in tablet form from my doctor. Just a few minutes in the Sun and my skin starts to itch and swell.
  It is something I have had to learn to live with.