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Genos (10 Boards) => Genos - General => Topic started by: dsvroland on February 17, 2020, 05:39:27 PM

Title: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: dsvroland on February 17, 2020, 05:39:27 PM
Hi friends!

Does anyone have news about StyleMagic and MIDIWorks?

Now it looks like we’ll only receive updates by subscription. I already sent an email to Tomaz, he sent one last update "for free". He still hasn't answered how much will it cost the subscription. I'm a little disappointed because when I made the purchase he said the updates would be free. I understand that he needs money to continue developing, but I believe that we should have a discount.

See the image on the website in English at the end "Free upgrade for holders of the full version as part of the annual subscription!"

(https://i.ibb.co/Yy0ZryL/Image-7.png)



Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Joe H on February 17, 2020, 07:30:05 PM
Thomas' English is not that good.  I've received many updates for free and have not received an email that I will need an annual subscription.  I know he is working on an update currently with new features.

Yes... that message is confusing.  We will just have to wait and see.

Joe H
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: dsvroland on February 17, 2020, 08:31:37 PM
I only received information about the subscription after sending him an email. For example, for the last MidiWorks update I did not receive it as usual (by e-mail without request), I only received the update because I requested it and he also confirmed that this would be the last update for free  :'(

The last MidiWorks update is compatible with PSR-SX keyboards.
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Gunnar Jonny on February 17, 2020, 10:37:36 PM
Quote from the first point at the FAQ site:

FAQ
What is the price of the software update?
Update software is free, for anyone who purchased a full version.

https://www.midisoft.pl/en/#strona-dn (https://www.midisoft.pl/en/#strona-dn)

Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Pino on February 18, 2020, 12:29:36 AM
Thomas should employ someone that is a good English speaker, translator, good at marketing and making video tutorials in English and a better English user manual. He has very good products and I’m sure he could sell 10 times more with a different approach.

I’ve recommended his software to many musicians and almost all have come back with a negative view mainly because of the language thing.

I use StyleMagic a lot, I have spend hours on it, learning mainly by trial and error, but it’s the only real program available at the moment, updates by subscription would be a "no, no" for me.

Pino

Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Joe H on February 18, 2020, 03:07:45 AM
Pino,

I share your experience and point of view.  If we have to pay for upgrades in the future, Thomas is likely to experience people are NOT willing to pay.  I think he is making a big mistake to charge for updates because we bought the programs with the understanding that all future updates would be free.

I assume he is working on a suggestion I made to him for Exporting and Importing individual style Parts in Channels Manager (like we can now do with entire sections in Sections Manager). I used the Google Translator hoping it would be more understandable and make sense. He liked my idea but he said it would take a lot of work because it would require saving the alternate channels (ch 1-8) not just the standard channels 9-16.  Maybe he is working on more than one new feature and feels that he needs to get paid for his work.  I agree with you that he needs help marketing his software.  I know he has a lot of users, but could sell a lot more with some professional help.

BTW... he asked me in the past to edit those English Captions for his videos.  At the time I didn't have a lot of experience with StyleMagic and didn't want to change the meaning of his words, so I did the best I could... but I thought it could be better.  I also edited his document for my own personal use, but I agree he needs someone who knows both Polish and English very well who uses his software and who could ask him questions and do a good job of explaining things.

Joe H
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: dsvroland on February 18, 2020, 05:34:37 AM
Pino,

I share your experience and point of view.  If we have to pay for upgrades in the future, Thomas is likely to experience people are NOT willing to pay.  I think he is making a big mistake to charge for updates because we bought the programs with the understanding that all future updates would be free.

I assume he is working on a suggestion I made to him for Exporting and Importing individual style Parts in Channels Manager (like we can now do with entire sections in Sections Manager). I used the Google Translator hoping it would be more understandable and make sense. He liked my idea but he said it would take a lot of work because it would require saving the alternate channels (ch 1-8) not just the standard channels 9-16.  Maybe he is working on more than one new feature and feels that he needs to get paid for his work.  I agree with you that he needs help marketing his software.  I know he has a lot of users, but could sell a lot more with some professional help.

BTW... he asked me in the past to edit those English Captions for his videos.  At the time I didn't have a lot of experience with StyleMagic and didn't want to change the meaning of his words, so I did the best I could... but I thought it could be better.  I also edited his document for my own personal use, but I agree he needs someone who knows both Polish and English very well who uses his software and who could ask him questions and do a good job of explaining things.

Joe H

I indicated two suggestions to him, he liked it, however, he never did anything. 1. Do the multilingual interface (I said I could help). 2. Advertise and Facebook groups.

I also understand that he does not ask for much help, it is possible that he does not want to feel that he owes a favor.

Also the security part of the software I think is very good, there is no pirated version and I feel that what I paid was worth it. But reinforcing security also made it impossible to run his programs on any computer with Hyper-V enabled. I mean Hyper-V as a Windows Feature.

(https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/virtualization/hyper-v-on-windows/quick-start/media/enable_role_upd.png)
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Pino on February 18, 2020, 07:21:08 AM
I am happy with the USB security
If it was ‘cracked’ then there would be many free downloads on the internet and that would be the end of further "updates."
I travel a lot and always carry all my USB sticks with me,
You can buy second USB pass, it’s not expensive,

Pino
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Joe H on February 19, 2020, 04:26:18 PM
I sent Thomas an email asking him for clarification on the updates issue. The way I read that statement is that those who bought full licensed versions of the StyleMagic and Midiworks will continue to receive free updates.

Hopefully this will continue... let's wait and see!

Joe H
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Joe H on February 19, 2020, 07:24:44 PM
FYI... I just downloaded the StyleMagic v3 User Manual.  It looks like there is some improvement.  I think it would be nice if we could combine all the different parts of the manual into a single document.

Joe H
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: dsvroland on February 19, 2020, 08:23:59 PM
I sent Thomas an email asking him for clarification on the updates issue. The way I read that statement is that those who bought full licensed versions of the StyleMagic and Midiworks will continue to receive free updates.

Hopefully this will continue... let's wait and see!

Joe H

I also hope that updates will continue to be free
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: eallan on February 20, 2020, 12:44:23 AM
Joe ,
The PDFs of the Manual that I have are from this download
https://www.midisoft.pl/en/hu/zasoby/stylemagic-manual.zip
The PDF files are all dated 10-03-2018.
Are the PDFs you have newer than that?
If they are , could you point me to where you downloaded them.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Joe H on February 20, 2020, 03:38:17 PM
FYI...

I have been communicating with Thomas.  Below are the email communications between me and Thomas.

============================================================================

Hi Thomas,

There is some concern on the Yamaha PSR Tutorial Forum that we will have to pay for future updates on your software. 
Is this true or will we continue to receive FREE updates if we have already purchased a full program licensed version?

Regards,
Joe  Hlifka

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Joe
 
Updates will be available free of charge as part of your subscription.
 
The subscription is valid for one year from the date of purchase of the license.
 
The subscription can also be purchased separately - I am in the process of calculating the price.
Maybe you can help me suggest something?
 
Regards
Thomas Szczepaniak


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thomas,

I am confused by the annual subscription.  What if we purchased software several years ago?  Are you saying I will need to buy a subscription once a year to get the next update? What if there are no new updates in a year?

This is what people are concerned about.  When we bought StyleMagic and Midiworks we understood all future updates would be FREE.  Now we will have to pay more money for updates.  I think this change will upset many people who have bought your software already and they will NOT be willing to buy a yearly subscription for future updates. That means we would keep paying over and over again.

There must be another way of doing business. I would not pay for an update unless it is for a very small amount of money and I would want to try it out before buying it. I really like your software, but this change is not to my liking.  I think many other users will feel the same. I might buy a subscription one time only and never buy it again… ever!

How about charging for updates without buying a subscription?  In other words If users want the update they would have to buy the update. (latest version)  But if they are not interested in the update they would not receive it.

I will not make a suggestion on how much you should charge.  To be honest, I don’t really like the idea of buying a subscription, but I might be willing to pay for a MAJOR update for a small amount of money… just one time only.  I just don’t know… I will have to think about it.

Joe

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
I think you are confusing the license with the subscription.
 
The license is for life, and no one will collect it even in 100 years.
 
The subscription will include updates, maintenance of the full version on my server, help.
 
Now I have a whole bunch of phones from people who bought the program 8 years ago and I do not have time to develop the program, I feel like a slave who was paid 50 euros 8 years ago and I have to meet expectations.
 
Understand?
 
Regards
Thomas
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Joe H on February 20, 2020, 03:43:36 PM
Joe ,
The PDFs of the Manual that I have are from this download
https://www.midisoft.pl/en/hu/zasoby/stylemagic-manual.zip
The PDF files are all dated 10-03-2018.
Are the PDFs you have newer than that?
If they are , could you point me to where you downloaded them.
Thanks.

That's the latest... it's an update for version 3

Joe H
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Joe H on February 20, 2020, 03:45:33 PM
Based on the email response from Thomas, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the end of StyleMagic and Midiworks development.

 :(

Joe H
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: WolfBack on February 20, 2020, 05:23:33 PM
I'm shocked now!
Thomas has decided to follow a wrong and dangerous path.
The same path that follows some programmers and developers (like the Collectorz.com over the last 4-5 years.).
You have to pay for a software that works forever... but you have to pay a fee every year for the upcoming updates and support.
That's ridiculous! I was pay 52€ for StyleMagicYA 3 years ago, I did receive the update to version 3 (Genos compatible) and if I choose to buy a SX700 / SX900 (or any of the upcoming SX7xx / S9xx) I will to pay more for the same program? I don't get it!!!!!
The StyleMagic is a wonderful piece of software, but Thomas make a update every now and a couple of years. That's how he's confused about the calculation of the One Year Subscription.
Let's be straight: This program is not for all kind of people. The target group is very low to sell his software... and unfortunately... the end of StyleMagic is near...
Sad....

Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Bachus on February 20, 2020, 06:55:49 PM
I guess the man needs to make money to live
And he just follows the rest of the greedy software market..

Want it or not, subscriptions are the new deal..
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Joe H on February 20, 2020, 07:01:29 PM
I guess the man needs to make money to live
And he just follows the rest of the greedy software market..

Want it or not, subscriptions are the new deal..

I think Thomas does some other kind of work for a living.  Software is not his regular income.  But it sounds like with the newer keyboards and update suggestions from users, he is feeling a lot of pressure to keep up with things.

Joe H
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Joe H on February 20, 2020, 07:06:34 PM
...  if I choose to buy a SX700 / SX900 (or any of the upcoming SX7xx / S9xx) I will to pay more for the same program?...

Right now if you download the StyleMagic v3.0.2 Demo, you can get the Voice definition files for all the latest keyboards including the SX700/SX900.  The thing that will be missing is being able to assign Insert DSPs for each style channel.

Just remember that StyleMagic has a great Voice Editor, Drum Editor and CASM Editor, so it's usefulness will not diminish.

PS: Several years ago I bought a backup license using a second USB drive just in case my regular USB drive fails eventually. Both StyleMagic and Midiworks will run on a single dongle.  This is true for both dongles.

Joe H
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: ugawoga on February 21, 2020, 11:17:46 AM
Hi
Most programs like steinberg or whatever have a fee for major upgrade which i do not mind paying as we all have to follow the technology or become a ludite using a Pentium 4 or a ZX Spectrum. ::) :P ;D.

For Thomas programs a small fee would be acceptable as a lot of work go into these programs.

I would like some clarification on what the updates are though

All the Best
john
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Joe H on February 21, 2020, 03:44:47 PM
John,

Yes, this in effect is what I stated (above) to Thomas (trying not to be rude).  This idea applies to Yamaha arrangers as well.  If Yamaha would honor the many requests for specific updates to the OS (in the form of patches) then we could each get individual special features for our own needs by buying specific patches to add features. The thing is... does the Genos and PSR sx... OS allow such patches to be written/added?

Joe H
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Fred Smith on February 21, 2020, 04:35:04 PM
I guess the man needs to make money to live
And he just follows the rest of the greedy software market..

Want it or not, subscriptions are the new deal..

In fact, subscriptions are the new deal, not because developers are "greedy", but because they want to stay in business.

If you think their product is overpriced, then you should enter the market and compete. Think of all the money you'll make (assuming you're right, of course).

Cheers,
Fred
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Wim on February 21, 2020, 11:27:41 PM
Quote: Now I have a whole bunch of phones from people who bought the program 8 years ago and I do not have time to develop the program, I feel like a slave who was paid 50 euros 8 years ago and I have to meet expectations. EndQuote.

If Microsoft does this with their Windows programs? I understand you are a one person business. I also know some small software companies. You get your updates and say a six months helpdesk. But if you want an extension for that you can buy an extra subscription for the helpdesk facilaties.

rgds Wim
 
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Jørgen on February 22, 2020, 07:26:04 AM
Hey.
This whole discussion is basically about whether software development is your livelihood or your hobby.
I started developing software approx. 20 years ago as a hobby - an intellectual challenge. In 2005, I tested the possibilities of making one of my programs commercial. It did not succeed! The market is simply too small!
Instead, I have chosen to bring a smaller number of advertisements to my website and to receive donations. These two things do NOT bring in anything similar to salary for the hours I spend on software development. They bring in something similar to half a month's salary PER YEAR!
But this has paid for a new keyboard - right now a 6 year old PSR S750 - and a new computer more times.
I have no intention of changing that my 44 software programs are free to download and use. Software development is and will be a hobby for me!
I hope Thomas finds a model so he can continue out of the track he has chosen. But it sure will not be easy, if he will make software development to Yamaha keyboards his livelihood. Anyway, good luck Thomas.

Jørgen
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: ugawoga on February 22, 2020, 12:35:43 PM
Hi Joe
Does anyone know what is in the latest updates for Stylemagic and Midiworks.

All the best
John
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: BenoitM on February 22, 2020, 01:20:01 PM
Quote
Quote: Now I have a whole bunch of phones from people who bought the program 8 years ago and I do not have time to develop the program, I feel like a slave who was paid 50 euros 8 years ago and I have to meet expectations.

The 'Pay once, free updates forever' model simply don't work. It can't, on the long term, for this kind of software in this 'niche' market. At first, it can attract some people, and create a good user-base, but in the long term the user-base tend to stagnates and the incomes are lowering year after year. New users (paying customers) are not enough to generate suffisent income for the developer to live (yes, surprisingly, everyone has to pay bills, even developers...  ::)) ... That's why he had to change the licensing model.  Existing customers saying that the developer is 'greedy' are even greedier by not understanding this, and expecting new features for free forever...

But I agree that, perhaps, the author should have clarified things from the beginning:
- 'Update' should be always free, but it contains only bug fixes or minor enhancements. (in software versioning : from v1.0 to v1.1 , or v1.2 , and so on ..)
- 'Upgrade' should be paid, as it often correspond to significant changes in the soft : new big features, complete redesign, etc... (in soft versioning : from v1.0 to v2.0, or from v2.5 to v3.0 , and so on ...)

If Microsoft does this with their Windows programs? I understand you are a one person business. I also know some small software companies. You get your updates and say a six months helpdesk. But if you want an extension for that you can buy an extra subscription for the helpdesk facilaties.

rgds Wim

As you said, there's no point comparing Windows and StyleMagic/MidiWorks (SM/MW).

Windows is a Platform, SM/MW is a software.
A platforms give the developer the tools needed to create software, it is an ecosystem.
A software brings functionalities to solve specific problems for users of an ecosystem.

Microsoft is the first winner when they announced that, starting from Windows 10, they would give upgrades for free forever, because maintaining old versions of Windows is a nightmare and cost a lot of $$$ (An O.S. in itself only gives basic functionalities to users, but it is a very complicated piece of software: thousand of engineers, hundreds of millions of lines of code, and so on...). If everyone in the world had the same Windows version, it would cost far less for Microsoft to create patches to correct bugs and security holes... Even today, Windows 7/8.x users can upgrade for free to Windows 10, if their hardware permits so ...

In fact, Google did it from day 1 with Android: they open-sourced a big part of the O.S. to allow third-party to create an Android-compatible customized OS. and they gave the O.S. - not really for free, but at a ridiculous cost compared to the building cost - to Smartphone manufacturers.
For google, creating and maintaining Android cost a lot of $$$ , they loose money on this, but they earn much more money by getting a fee on each sold app on they app store ! When you control the Platform, you are the master of the game. Giving the platform for free is a way to alienate the developers and customers :) (there's no such thing as a free lunch, remember ?)

For a professional single-person developer shop, it simply isn't possible to upgrade a soft for free forever. Because the costs of development are increasing with each version (because when you add a new feature you have to be very careful not to break existing features) whereas income are at best stagnating or at worst declining ...

Of course, some software are really 'free' to use and are regularly updated/upgraded by their creators, but those developers needs to find alternative solutions to have income (remember: developer, too, have to pay their bills !) such as consulting, or 'premium' paid versions...
And sometimes, very good free software are created by hobbyist developers, just for fun  :D  Most of the time, when its a hobby, you don't count your time, so you don't expect to be paid for what you've done...
But even for that kind of software, there are numerous examples of free software that became paying software at a certain time, either because to developer sold its product to a commercial company, or because the developer wanted to be full-time committed to its software... Sounds very sensible to me !

Beside this, a lot of people tend to misunderstand Software Development. They are willing to pay good money for 'real things' (ie: new keyboard, new car, smartphone and so on...) because they can touch them, but with software - since it is not tangible - they tend to believe it should be cheap or free forever... as if is created from thin air at no cost...

Creating software is *hard* and it cost - at least a lot of time - , and getting the knowledge on how to create (good) software takes time. (time=money, you get the thing ?  ;) )
What we take for granted is often not so easy to (re)create from scratch by a single developer. And because a feature exists in a software for a long time doesn't mean it is easy to do or replicate in another soft...

I can't count the number of customers that asks me to create software that can 'read the users mind'... Often they give me the same example: Google search can 'predict' (autocomplete and autocorrect) the searched topic -and for free - ! And they tell me that, because Google offers this kind of feature for free it should be pretty basic and cheap to recreate... My answer is always the same: "Easy to use - and as basic as it seems - doesn't means 'easy to create'. Google is a multi billions-dollar company, they have hundreds of thousands powerful servers around the world, and thousands of very qualified engineers to build the software that makes all the 'magic' happens. You don't expect your local Garage owner to be able to build a Space Shuttle from scratch just because SpaceX did it :)".

So, yes, everything has a cost, and developers are not different than you, they need money to live and grow their product.

"If a product is free, you are the product"   

Benoit
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: BenoitM on February 22, 2020, 01:22:47 PM
Ho, and sorry for the long post !  ;)

Benoit
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Gunnar Jonny on February 22, 2020, 02:36:24 PM
It is big differences between updates and upgrades.
If pay 'full price' for a software, then bugfixes and promissed changes for the version when deal done should be downloadable or delivered free of charge regardless of time.
To charge more money should not be any issue at least until next major upgrade of the program. Then customers can choose if they want to upgrade or not.
When use subscriptions, the software should start at a lower price, and if subscription payment stop, the customer get no further updates.
It's fairly simple, but the major softwareupgrades need to be protected, i.e. by use of new serial, password, USB key or whatever method used to protect piracy.

Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Joe H on February 22, 2020, 05:19:26 PM
FYI... Update on communications with Thomas Szczepaniak

After reviewing comments here and thinking about it, I sent Thomas another email.  I emphasized it is just MY suggestions and he should solicit suggestion from other users. I was speaking only for myself.

1. If he charged a subscription; and he could not lease a new update each year, I thought people would NOT buy another subscription.

2. As an alternative, I suggested that he raise his prices on his software and charge a small fee for updates. We can review the updates in the demo version. 

3. I said he should get suggestions from other users as well before making a final decision.

I also told him that I personally thought StyleMagic is better software than EMC StyleWorks for Yamaha which sells for 199 Euro.

Regards,
Joe H


Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Joe H on February 22, 2020, 05:30:28 PM
Clarification on updates vs. upgrades. 

All of Thomas' updates ARE upgrades with new features.  There are always improvements and I have never received a version of his software with bugs in it.

One of the best things about StyleMagic and MidiWorks besides all the great editors in these programs is his IDL Editor which allows us to add Voice Definition files for our expansion packs. And I thank Vali Maties for that; who has given us YEM Content Explorer which will generate Voice files for all of our packs that are compatible with Thomas IDL v2 Editor as well as MixMaster, PadMaker, and PadMaker-Midi programs.

Joe H
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Joe H on February 22, 2020, 05:51:25 PM
Hi Joe
Does anyone know what is in the latest updates for Stylemagic and Midiworks.

All the best
John

I don't know John.  I have made many suggestions over the years.  My latest idea is Export and Import individual style parts in Channels Manager. (similar to Export and Import entire Sections in Sections Manager)  He liked it.  This would allow us to save to disk any style Part and Import it into another style.  Similar to Style Creator Assembly. Someone else suggested being able to draw controller data in the multieditor (piano roll) with the mouse rather entering one event at a time. Other suggestions have been to be able to record directly into StyleMagic like a DAW. But I doubt we will ever see that capability, because StyleMagic is just an editor; not a sequencer.

I suggested in the past he include support for Multi Pads but he didn't implement it. Since that time I discovered we can load a MP into MixMaster and pass it to StyleMagic for DEEP editing, then send it back to MixMaster and save it.  If we change the extension from .pad to .mid we can load a MP directly into StyleMagic, there is also the possibility of converting the MP to a 4-part style and saving it.  Lot's of possibilities!

Joe H
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Gunnar Jonny on February 22, 2020, 06:14:37 PM
......... I also told him that I personally thought StyleMagic is better software than EMC StyleWorks for Yamaha which sells for 199 Euro.

So far I have not tried Stylemagic, and therefor cannot say anything abot what's best or not, but EMC and XT universal has been regulary updated since middle of the 90'ies till today, and I've never been charged for any extra fee.
That said, EMC may need to take some steps further into the new models, but I guess all audio stuff make a difference.

I can see Dan has gone the 'subscription way' with vArranger as well, but I still think both a relative high price at the product and then add subscription fee for support and updates may mostly catch the users that already have bought the software.

Probably not a fair comparision, but if i.e. look at MS Office. Buy it for a relative high price, and the price is for the pack and updates / fixes for a looong time. You will not get next major upgrade. If subscribe, no high start price, install pack at several computers for a monthly fee that is 1/24 part of the full pack. Always the newest and updated software.
That's the way more and more softwaresuppliers do it. Choose between buy a version, or monthly/yearly subscriptions to stay continious updated.
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Joe H on February 22, 2020, 09:56:09 PM
Here is the latest communications with Thomas:

Joe H

=====================================================================================================

Hi Thomas,

I’ve been thinking about your last comments. I understand what a subscription is. I think it is the wrong way to go.  There has been discussion on PSR Tutorial Forum about your proposed changes. As I stated before, if you don’t make an update in one year with subscription, people will NOT buy a subscription again. 

You would be better off raising your prices for your software. I think StyleMagic is a much better program than EMC StyleWorks.  StyleMagic has great Voice Editor, Drum Editor, CASM Editor, multieditor, Channels Manager, Sections Manager, OTS Editor, etc.

StyleWorks price for Yamaha version from EMC is 199 Euro. 

http://www.emc-musicsoftware.com/epages/62511965.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/62511965/Products/stwxt_0001/SubProducts/stwxt_0001-0001 (http://www.emc-musicsoftware.com/epages/62511965.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/62511965/Products/stwxt_0001/SubProducts/stwxt_0001-0001)

Here is my suggestion:

1. Raise price on StyleMagic to 100 Euro
2. Charge small amount for updates: 5 to 6 Euro (we can review updates in Demo Version before we buy)
 
You have great software.  Users want to see more improvements.  This is just MY suggestions.  Please ask other users for their opinion too.

I would be willing to pay a small fee for next update, but NOT a subscription. I think most people would EXPECT an update at least once a year with a subscription. If you cannot deliver a yearly update, I believe you will loose customers.

I wish you continued success with StyleMagic and MidiWorks software. Everyone understands the hard work that goes into writing software code and testing it.

Kind Regards,
Joe Hlifka

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thomas' response:
==============

Hi Joe
 
In fact, you are right, I have rarely updated in recent times, mainly because the program is almost complete.
I have to think about it yet, your suggestions are good, but I don't want to raise the initial price strongly.
 
I'm finishing testing version 3.0.2 of StyleMagic YA.
Next week I will send a link to the update to all my clients (free of charge).
 
These are the improvements:
v 3.0.2
Multieditor - added new tools: eraser, pencil, selection,
Multieditor - added grid lines in the Control Change field,
Multieditor - the controllers selection has been extended (details)  for the Copy and Delete functions,
Main window - added SCP and FPS file formats,
Main window - added Slovak language,
Voice selection - added voice selection prompter,

v 3.0.1
Channels manager - added copying parts between sections,
Channels manager - added access to the CASM Editor,
Mixing console - fix problem with PLUS voices for S975 and S775,
 
If you know those interested, you can post it on forum on my behalf.
Thank you.
 
Regards
Thomas
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: ugawoga on February 22, 2020, 11:58:09 PM
Hi
Do not bother with EMC Styleworks as I get excuses

It has stopped working for me since the last few Windows 10 updates .
This is over the top priced really and needs a major overhaul in my opinion
It used to work with just a few glitches ,but now i get a pop up box telling me

Invalid _Device name 263() WHAT DOES THIS MEAN???? :o and what can you do about it??? :P

I have a fast Windows 10 I7 computer with plenty of ram and no other software complains like this program.
I am finding Stylemagic more than stable. Rock solid in fact. The only thing is to make a style it is a little long winded.
Klaus needs to look into  EMC Styleworks. It was such an easy program to make Styles, but now utter useless to me and for well over £100 a total waste of time.
Still no word from Klaus to put me right . He goes on to say use the Winamp checkbox.
I do not want Winamp  as i have Yamaha drivers and that should talk between The Genos and the computer Styleworks
You do not need a sound box when just using the Genos and the computer.
For the price i paid for EMC Styleworks i expect more than just workarounds.

All the best
John

All the best
John :)
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Joe H on February 23, 2020, 01:57:04 AM
... I am finding Stylemagic more than stable. Rock solid in fact. The only thing is to make a style it is a little long winded...

I gave up on trying to make styles from MIDI files. I use StyleMagic as an editor only and to convert Multi Pads to style Parts that I can then use with Style Creator Assembly on the keyboard.

I looked at the v3.0.2 Demo.  Thomas has added a lot more controller options in the piano roll.  The pencil tool is nice too and there is an eraser.  You can draw controllers in with the pencil or use it to point and click adding just one controller event at a time with greater accuracy.  I'm glad the next update/upgrade will be free.

Joe H
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Joe H on February 23, 2020, 08:41:56 PM
I checked out the improvements for v302

These are the improvements:
v 3.0.2
Multieditor - added new tools: eraser, pencil, selection,
With the pencil we can now draw controller data in any style Part and also use it the same as the mouse to add CCs one at a time

Multieditor - added grid lines in the Control Change field,
This is helpful for placing single controller data and Voice messages for accurate timing position

Multieditor - the controllers selection has been extended (details)  for the Copy and Delete functions,
Many new controllers including Art1 and Art2 messages

Main window - added SCP and FPS file formats,
This refers to Open File Menu

Main window - added Slovak language,
New Language

Voice selection - added voice selection prompter,
This applies to both OTS Editor and Piano Roll multieditor... now we have access to our pack Voices too (like in Voice Editor)

It's icing on the cake!

Joe H
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: dsvroland on February 25, 2020, 12:51:46 AM
Hello friends, I am really disappointed with this situation, but as I said at the beginning, I understand that Thomas needs to earn money and feel insentivated to continue developing the programs. On the other hand it is bad that we were notified from the beginning that the updates would be free.

I have been a user of StyleMagic and MidiWorks for 6 years, and in fact I still found a bug in StyleMagic converting a MIDI to Style, selecting for example the part of Main A, I switch to Main B, Main C, and so I finish, then I change my opinion and change the selected part of Main A, again I change my mind and put back the first selection (measures) I had made at the beginning, then the Main A is a little out of position when I press on Play to hear that selection. And it does not resolve to make Undo, this does not solve the problem.

Another part that would be good is to manually change position of the notes from the Events List, placing in a specific M:B:T.

I just have a big question, how the updates and upgrades will work.

With my experience at Musitek (SmartScore) I had a simple version, one day I wanted to switch to the Pro version, I had to buy each update and then the upgrade. The point is, if I don't buy updates for a long time afterwards, will I have to pay all of them to be able to have the latest version?

Cubase charges upgrades following the steps: 8.0> 8.5> 9.0> 9.5 and so on. Before reaching the major change, updates are free.

I believe that Thomas still has a lot to think about it.
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Joe H on February 25, 2020, 05:49:22 AM
Hello friends... I believe that Thomas still has a lot to think about it.

It's real easy to criticize... isn't it? (especially if you don't have all the facts and your methodology is a bit flawed)

::)

Joe H

Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Aquilauno on February 25, 2020, 10:41:04 AM
If I can add my insignificant opinion. I believe that Thomas cannot be made to weigh an error of evaluation after eight years of free updates, and we all understand that the commitment to keep updated and improve a program is a job that must be recognized and rewarded. But I think Thomas needs good advice now. When selling subscription programs, the price of the software is usually adequately low, this is to entice the purchase and the profit is based on licenses. However, these are products that have a large target (e.g. an antivirus) and therefore have a widespread and widespread distribution. In the case of Style Magic I don't know how much it could get with the paid license and how many customers it could lose ... thus obtaining the opposite effect. So it is important to understand what the right price of the software can be and what the license price can be (for 1, 2 or 3 years). If it were an acceptable amount of 10 or 15 euros, I think that if the program is as good as I seem to have understood then I would gladly spend them ... I had a look at the program it seems valid, intuitive and with a lot of potential ... Joe h in future I will ask you many questions about style magic ...  ;)
I have to understand if I can extrapolate the intro from my hundreds of midi files and how reliable the program is in the final result (.... Xxxxxx.sty)
Pietro
PS:
do not think about paying for the upgrade but think about purchasing a license that includes the updates .. the concept is very different.
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Joe H on February 25, 2020, 03:54:50 PM
... Joe h in future I will ask you many questions about style magic ... 

I doubt that I will be able to help you. In the beginning I developed a template on paper and followed a method of incremental steps and saving the file after each step. (so I could go back if I made a mistake or changed my mind about something or work on the style over the coarse of several days) I don't make styles from MIDI files anymore. Making styles with Style Creator Assembly on the keyboard is much better than making styles from Song files.  Song files do not have the right phrases and chords and often are not in CM7 scale. Even with Styleworks from EMC (which is far more money) you cannot get good results... just simple styles.  It's way too much work for the final results achieved.

I now use StyleMagic as a style and Multi Pad editor. We can do deep editing that is not possible on the keyboard.

As far as Intros go... I like intros that I can play my own chord progressions.  This allows me to use the style for different tunes/songs without the intro influencing the rest of the tune/song due to predetermined chord progressions in the intro.

I will qualify the above statements by adding that I don't play covers of commercial music and don't entertain.  I mostly play (improvise) my own original music for my personal enjoyment.

Joe H
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Aquilauno on February 25, 2020, 06:46:33 PM
Thanks Joe for the clarification ...
Going back to Thomas and his decision I wanted to add that any decision he will make must consider who purchased the program, perhaps offering them a free license for the first one or two years. And then he decide if it is appropriate to lower the price of the program and focus on an annual license of 10/15 euros ... otherwise I am afraid that it will not have the desired result ... keep the price high and introducing a periodic payment is not a good idea ... it must broaden the base of potential customers and only two things can make it, a good price (that encourages the purchase)and  a valid and indispensable program for yamaha users.
Now, one of the shortcomings of the program is that, at present, given the limitations of the demo (saving the .sty file), you cannot verify the goodness of the program. Thomas must find a solution while maintaining protection from piracy ...
an example of what I mean:
I'm potentially interested but I don't know anything and I can't know the validity of the program for what it promises ... (conversion from midi to styles ... ) I managed to separate the various markers and the premise is good, but after? what comes out?  I can't know, for this I said I would ask you many questions ;)
 ...  the current version of the program does not help me.
the result is that:
for the moment, although interested, I don't buy it until someone who uses stylemagic YA answers my questions ...    I don't say it for you but to try to help Thomas.
Pietro
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Joe H on February 25, 2020, 07:48:52 PM
Pietro,

I respect your point of view.  You are coming from a place of someone considering to buy the program. What about those who already bought the program.  Why should Thomas lower the price, his competition is sellinig for 3 1/2 times the money and not as good. Most important he needs to find a better way to market his software to sell more copies.

1. License is currently good for Lifetime.

2. You can play your newly created style in StyleMagic without having to SAVE it.

3. I don't think Thomas is reading this thread so he won't know your thoughts.

4. Download the manual and you can learn a lot about the capabilities of StyleMagic

Joe H
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Aquilauno on February 25, 2020, 08:38:19 PM
I don't want to have been misunderstood. If a program is valid, they are willing to pay it even 3 times more therefore thoughts are for the best for Thomas ... Thomas can make his choices.
Thomas is free to sell at the price he wants, but not take into consideration the comments made, which are the subject of this post, is not a good idea, it is my point of view that is worth as much as any other.
This means that I too can be wrong in my ideas. Also you too said that you do not share Thomas's choice ... I just thought it would be feasible with a lower price, it is true that the competition sells 3 times more but there are no subscriptions... Here because I explained why it should take into consideration a lowering of the price ... would make an annual subscription more acceptable (
and in my opinion whit higher cash return ...).
Thomas does not read this post but you represented to him this discussion about its program, I assume that there is a relationship of cordiality, I seem to have understood that thomas asked you for advice ...  not easy to make the right decisions but less easy is to  advise someone ...
I downloaded the manual and will give us a good read ... but if listening to the created style you mean on the PC is not the same as loading it on the keyboard ... but I probably miss something so I'm going to read the manual
...all the best for Thomas e for StyleMagic YA.


Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: beykock on February 26, 2020, 10:04:26 AM
There is a difference between an update and an upgrade.
Maybe Thomas has the intention to launch an upgrade ... ::)

Best wishes, Babette
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Pino on February 26, 2020, 10:35:18 AM
I am a big fan of this software, have no problem to pay some additional payment for a real upgrade.

I have been able to make song styles from prepared midi intros from my PC, deleting the existing intros in a Yamaha style and importing my own intros

The "MultiEditor" has been so clunky in the past versions, I hope now, with the introduction of a pencil, that we may be able to write in some ‘hi hats’ or other drum parts and be able to edit and add new parts to our styles, we wait and see.

Pino
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: valimaties on March 01, 2020, 12:01:22 PM

The "MultiEditor" has been so clunky in the past versions, I hope now, with the introduction of a pencil, that we may be able to write in some ‘hi hats’ or other drum parts and be able to edit and add new parts to our styles, we wait and see.

Pino

Hi Pino.
This instrument does not work for notes, only for controls. I have tried and does not work in notes area. I have told Thomas about this and it answered me with a very simple and bothered answer: "My beta testers have told me that it works very good" . I told him, that in this case, his beta testers have not test it as it must to...

Here is a video which shows what I said:

MultiEditor's new tools are unfinished IMO ... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hutQv4B0cO8)

PS: Enable subtitles on youtube video...



Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Joe H on March 01, 2020, 04:07:52 PM
Vali,

I think the Pencil gives greater accuracy than the mouse pointer.  I can place both notes and controller messages much better with the Pencil.  But dragging the Pencil is a problem. It's not good for that kind of operation... too many MIDI events.  Maybe Thomas could lower the resolution for dragging the Pencil. Make a User defined resolution to suit our own personal needs.

Joe H
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Pino on March 01, 2020, 05:25:48 PM
Disappointing, with a pencil to draw notes this program could have become a "must have" for editing YAMAHA style.

Without that there’s nothing much new for me,

oh well,  - Now the excitement has gone, - 👹
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: valimaties on March 01, 2020, 05:33:53 PM
Vali,

I think the Pencil gives greater accuracy than the mouse pointer.  I can place both notes and controller messages much better with the Pencil.  But dragging the Pencil is a problem. It's not good for that kind of operation... too many MIDI events.  Maybe Thomas could lower the resolution for dragging the Pencil. Make a User defined resolution to suit our own personal needs.

Joe H

Hi Joe...

I also gave him the idea to let user click two points (holding CTRL) and program to be able to draw itself a line of events from the point A to point B. I don't think is such a huge math calc :)
Yes it is a better solution, but it also can be improved as most of DAWs action ;) That is what I want him to understand.

There is also a missing of wheel event on that screen. It is very annoying that mouse wheel does not do anything in that screen and you have to use that up-down and right-left button switch ... Why?  :o

Regards,
Vali
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: rikkisbears on March 02, 2020, 09:42:49 PM
Hi,
I bought Style Magic a few months ago , when I bought my SX900.
To be quite honest, haven’t used it yet. I will if I decide to do a lot more style editing than I currently am.
Prefer to use the onboard style assembly function.
For note editing, I use Jorgen’s Split and Splice program in conjunction with XGWorks. So far so good.
Next test will be if I can actually replace an intro with a midi file intro using just xg works and split and splice.

For multi pads , I’ve just started using XG works on its own. Wanted to turn some of the style arpeggios into pads. Seems to have worked.

Don’t really have a hassle with someone charging  for an upgrade, an update, though, if it’s just to fix existing bugs, I would.
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Pino on March 03, 2020, 01:50:51 AM
Hi,
I bought Style Magic a few months ago , when I bought my SX900.
To be quite honest, haven’t used it yet. I will if I decide to do a lot more style editing than I currently am.
Prefer to use the onboard style assembly function.

Are you saying that you prefer to use the onboard ‘style creator’ to using ‘style magic’ but so far you haven’t had time to try ‘StyleMagic

That doesn’t even make any sense.

Pino
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Joe H on March 03, 2020, 02:00:26 AM
Using Style Creator Assembly to exchange style Parts is different than editing styles with StyleMagic.  The Voice Editor and Drum Editor very good.  And you can do LOTS of editing in the multieditor (piano roll) that you will never be able to do with Style Creator.

You should load a style into StyleMagic and check it out. I think you will find the StyleMagic is well worth the money.

Joe H
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: rikkisbears on March 03, 2020, 07:47:50 PM
Are you saying that you prefer to use the onboard ‘style creator’ to using ‘style magic’ but so far you haven’t had time to try ‘StyleMagic

That doesn’t even make any sense.

Pino

Hi Pino,
basically I’m just altering the odd  style at the moment.
I want a few more with piano arpeggios for instance, I use orchestral type styles mainly.
So I went thru the psr styles that use piano arpeggios  turned arpeggios into pads. I now have a piano arpeggio style library which I can audition with any style.
If I find something that works I copy the style track ( that the pad was based on, ) into the style using style assembly.
If I actually have to do any editing to the style or pad , I just do it in XG Works. Split and splice to get my midi file,  I can then alter the style and save it. I can import a pad into the style also, provided I’m replacing a style section with a similar type of pad.

Far more convoluted way of doing things  than it was on my korgs, but I’m comfortable with xg works, I used it for nearly 15 years to convert psr styles across to Korg.

Now that I actually have a psr ,I don’t need to do the same amount style creating/editing that I used to do, I actually have the styles I wanted. I can stop trying to turn a Pa4x into a Yamaha. Haha

I bought Style Magic more as a safety net, knowing that if I get back into my old addiction of style converting, I will have the means of doing it, and I won’t regret having sold my Korgs. I’ll be able to do it on my psr’s.



Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Joe H on March 03, 2020, 08:28:36 PM
... I bought Style Magic more as a safety net, knowing that if I get back into my old addiction of style converting, I will have the means of doing it, and I won’t regret having sold my Korgs. I’ll be able to do it on my psr’s.


You can't convert styles with StyleMagic.  Are you talking about StyleWorks from EMC?

Joe H
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: rikkisbears on March 03, 2020, 09:22:29 PM
Hi Joe,
no. I used to be able to convert the earlier psr styles to Korg  by just using xg works. Once guitar mode was introduced on psr’s , it no longer worked. I then used my s950 to create the .mid file I needed.

Basically, change psr ext .sty  to .mid. Load into xg works.
 Min Intro’s/ endings are stacked on top of Maj  intro/ ending, so basically moved them to end of  mid file and also had to copy drum parts for those.

Then had to swap midi channel 9 and 11 around. Rest of the channels suited Korg.

Changed to markers from  Yamaha vers to Korg ( i1cv1, v1cv1 etc)

If there were any mega voice sounds, just delete the track they’re normally on a  seperate track, nothing one can really do.

Then save song to midi file 0.

Import it into Korg style creator. Used to have to do settings in the style itself , volumes, change voices  ntt settings etc. the equivalent to Casm settings. The fine tuning was done in the korg itself.

Pa3x/PA4x had xg voices and drums. Pa800 didn’t used to be a real chore converting xg drums to Korg.

As I mentioned once guitar mode  was introduced, I used to have to record the midifile I needed in a psr. Intro / End
Min / Maj, variations , fills , breaks , I use to be able to record just a cmaj7, or  I could do more variations if required.

I have EMC, had since the early 90’s used to work ok, but sometimes for some styles the editing afterwards was more trouble than it was worth. Does some strange things at times.
For Ketron Sd1, it used to remove some controllers from beginning of bar, expression for one. Used to get loud jumps in volume. Editing was lousy on sd1, it didn’t last long.

I never got into trying to convert midi songs into styles.  Maybe the odd intro /ending.
Haven’t used it in years.

Also have Dan’s V arranger for creating midifiles for converting to Korg. Gave me the option of doing Roland, Technics, Ketron , Korg and Yamaha.
Never really used it as the arranger it was designed to be.

As I mentioned , I was a style converting addict, never had the spare time to actually play.

Dumped all 3 korgs and my psrs950  , bought the sx900, and tried to steer clear of anything too much to do with styles.

Having style magic, makes me feel comfortable that, should I want to get back into converting, I can.

I should  be able to do on the Yamaha , what I used to do on the korgs. With some minor changes, 
I’ll have to use VArranger to create the midi files of the styles.
I’m assuming I’d just have to do Maj/min  intro / ending , variations etc. maj7 chord.
Import them into style magic to create the psr style.




Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: dsvroland on March 03, 2020, 09:27:33 PM
The new version for StyleMagic was released right now!

Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: rikkisbears on March 03, 2020, 10:08:21 PM
Thank you Dsvroland
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: ckobu on March 03, 2020, 10:59:27 PM
I just got a mail from Thomas. I think this is a completely fair and honest attitude towards the customer of his software.
I often use MixMaster> Go to> XGWorks or Cakewalk.
However, StyleMagic has great solutions, especially in the CASM area, and there is no alternative for that. Thanks Thomas for the great program.

###################
Hello

This is link to the new version StyleMagic YA:
----------
You must have the full version on the computer.
If you do not have the installation package for the full version of the program, please write to me.

modification:
        Multieditor - added new tools: eraser, pencil, selection,
        Multieditor - added grid lines in the Control Change field,
        Multieditor - added option of controllers selection has been extended for the Copy and Delete functions,
        Main window - added scp and fps file formats,
        Main window - added Slovak language,
        Voice selection - added voice selection prompter,

Please be informed that subsequent updates will be available free of charge only for a valid subscription.
The subscription will be valid for a one year from the purchase of the license, after which you can purchase subscriptions at any time,
e.g. when a new update is available.
Today I am giving you a start subscription valid for one year.

Regards
Thomas Szczepaniak
software author
#################
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: rikkisbears on March 04, 2020, 12:38:25 AM
Hi,
Sorry , bit confused, where do you actually get the update from. I did buy full version a few weeks ago.
Haven’t gotten round to using it yet, and I don’t want to do something stupid and corrupt my current version.

Thank you
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: ckobu on March 04, 2020, 12:45:35 AM
I received a notification and a download link in the mail. He'll probably get it too.
A little warning, turn off the antivirus program because Defender (win10) automatically deletes the downloaded file.
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Pino on March 04, 2020, 01:35:26 AM
Hi
Sorry, but confused also 🤔
Is there a download link somewhere.?

Pino
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: rikkisbears on March 04, 2020, 03:52:04 AM
Thank you ckobu
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: WolfBack on March 04, 2020, 06:32:06 PM
Hi
Sorry, but confused also 🤔
Is there a download link somewhere.?

Pino
This is the download link for the upgrade:
http://www.mirage.neostrada.pl/midisoft/upgrade_stylemagicya_v302.zip (http://www.mirage.neostrada.pl/midisoft/upgrade_stylemagicya_v302.zip)
If you didn't receive it yet, then you will be receive the email soon.

I hate this subscription stuff... but I have to learn to live with this nowadays...
I like the approach of Thomas to give us a free year subscription on StyleMagicYA...
We are waiting for the price for each subscription. I hope that will be affordable for everyone.
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: panos on March 04, 2020, 08:36:54 PM
Are you saying that you prefer to use the onboard ‘style creator’ to using ‘style magic’ but so far you haven’t had time to try ‘StyleMagic

That doesn’t even make any sense.

Pino

Hi Pino,
Stylemagic looks cool to do things easier (when you learn how it works of course) but it seems to has two disadvantages compared to the on board Style Creator:

a) Style parts assembly:
There are plenty of note combinations on Yamaha's style parts ready to use.
I don't know but how many combinations of 4th,8th,16th etc notes and patterns can a bar has that do not already exist inside the hundreds (and more) styles and they have tested to work in all chords?

b) On a pc I cannot hear the voices of the keyboard, so all the... "inspiration" is gone when I hear general midi voices which I really don't like that much.
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: ckobu on March 04, 2020, 11:41:35 PM
....
b) On a pc I cannot hear the voices of the keyboard, so all the... "inspiration" is gone when I hear general midi voices which I really don't like that much.

If the keyboard is properly paired with the PS, everything you do in MixMaster, XGWorks, Cacewalk, StyleMagic ... will be heard on the keyboard.
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Pino on March 05, 2020, 03:47:05 AM
Rikki
StyleMagic has everything you will ever need to make Styles form midi.
Take a look at this video, will give you an idea of how it works.

https://youtu.be/AmRT6MK1M74

Cut a midi in your PC so that you only have an intro, VarA and an ending
Take note of the bar numbers and transpose to C. Thomas shows how to do this in SM in his video but I find it easier to do in my Midi sequencer, for this test run keep the drums-bass-guitar/piano tracks Only.

Watch the video all the way through and load your midi into SM
Every time you get stuck look at the video again, and take notes, best way to learn.
When your happy with the style parts, Save and load into your SX for editing and balancing the voices.

I can’t think of any other program where we can make ‘styles from midi’ like this one.

Pino
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Pino on March 05, 2020, 05:01:08 AM
Panos

StyleMagic is nothing to do with ‘inspiration’ it’s a programme for grouping a few bars together from a midi file and naming them "Intro or Var A" etc, and to sort out the SInt/CASM, + a lot more, once you’ve done that, save the style, load the style into your Yamaha keyboard for editing the voices and balances, whether I hear the voices in GM or XG makes no difference to me at that point cos all that is done later on the keyboard.

Just want to tell you that I have nothing to do with 1,000 of Styles or collecting or editing styles, I am 1st a keyboard player and a gigger, playing styles only. What matters to me is the intros to the styles, this is what determines if your audience gets up to dance or not, if they hear a good intro they are up dancing, so the better the intro the more dancers and maybe a song specific intro is the best and that is why i am using StyleMagic, mainly just for the intros,

I find Yamaha styles are the best, covering every beat that I will ever need, style endings is of no importance to me and a short ending is the best, so, If you have the capability to change the intro to a Yamaha style to a more song specific intro, then we have full control of how we want the end product to sound like.

The big test is, is your audience up dancing. That’s all that matters to me.

Pino
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: rikkisbears on March 05, 2020, 10:52:21 AM
Thank you Pino for the information.
I received my update link today and great that sx900 is now supported.
I will start learning a bit more about it.
Your intro’s idea is a good one.
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: WolfBack on March 05, 2020, 09:45:31 PM
I'm totally agree with Panos.
Let's say the things right... The StyleMagicYa is NOT a tool to make a style from scratch! Not at all!!!!!
If there's anybody's looking to purchase this software to make a style with this from a scratch... then he's completely walk on the wrong way. For sure, the StyleMagicYA is NOT a alternative way to make thinks like the onboard Style Creator does (unfortunately) !
The newer purchasers have to know that before they make a decision to purchase this (yeap, amazing) piece of software.
I make a lot of styles, but the StyleMagicYA will always be my second step to do those things works. It's like my editor for my project, before I move the .sty file on my KB.
On conclusion, if anyone wants to add / remove / add effects and things / revoice / changing the SYSeX parameters / add some variation and channels for a EXISTING style then he's got the RIGHT tool!!!!

I use the Fruity Loops and StyleMagicYa to make a style from a scratch... (and my KB too)
It's a hell of work... but the result is fine to my ears!
If anyone's wants to learn the whole procedure, just pm me.

For Panos:

Ευτυχώς που το IDL Editor κάνει δουλειά με τα Expansion Packs... αλλιώς δεν θα είχα ασχοληθεί καθόλου με το StyleMagicYA.
Πολύ δουλειά όμως. Φόρτωσε όλα τα packs στο IDL, σύνδεσέ τα με το StyleMagic, σύνδεσε με MIDI το S7xx σου... και παίξε με τους ήχους...
Βαρεμάρα!
Βάζω τα onboard voices στο StyleMagic και μετά κάνω revoice με το Style Creator του S770 μου... Δεν αντέχω όλο αυτό το χάσιμο χρόνου φίλε μου!

CONCLUSION:
The StyleMagicYA is a GREATFULL tool for every Yamaha KB owner!
Period!!!!
If Thomas want's a affordable fee for his subscriptions, then I'll go ahead with his software!
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: soundphase on March 07, 2020, 10:48:44 AM
Do you consider Yamaha should give us Genos2 because we bought Tyros1 ?
Would you accept to spend a lot of time and give the result of your work to strangers over the world  totally for free ?

In software industry, pricing rules change a lot. For example, the official version of Java is now sold by Oracle and is no longer free. Java is everywhere...  And as hardware is more and more powerful, major professional software licenses are more and more associated with the power of the CPU... open source support is not free... and so on ...

I agree with Thomas. All good works must be paid. The fact that you react, shows you like his work.
It’s up to him to find the good pricing model
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Styles2psr on March 08, 2020, 12:44:27 AM
I have to agree with Panos.

You all forgot something, to make a high quality style with great sounding EQ settings you always have to finish your work in Style Creator.
It doesn't matter how good you are on using Style Magic, you will still end up with a shitty sounding style.
I think many people don't know how much work it takes to mixing all channels/parts with the correct EQ/Volume settings, and add effects for each part.

My method to create styles are different, it is indeed very time consuming but it works great for me.

I create all of my midi patterns using the piano roll in FL Studio, and then export each part to midi.
When i create styles i always start to make the Intros and some parts of the Main variations, when that is done i move/transpose the patterns to C minor or Major in the piano roll... depending on the style.
Next step is to use Jörgens Midi2style, and import each midi pattern, and export each part to a style.

When i have a full folder with all styles part for each styles, i unlock them with the Style Unlocker program so i can edit and change the CASM settings in Style Creator.

The hard work starts now....take each style part to create the Intros for each style and change to correct CASM setting for Intros.
When i'm done with the Intros, i move over to the Main Variations, and use the same process as above.
Next step is to create the Endings.
Next step is to create the drum fill-ins and breaks,
Last step is to play the whole style and listen very carefully to each part and make small adjustments if necessary of the notes/volumes.

Of course i could use Style Magic and make it easier for me, but the styles would never sound as good as when you work directly onboard with Style Creator and actually listen to each pattern if they sound good and correct.

In fact i have contacted Thomas last year because i was interested to buy Style Magic and i had a couple of questions.
I've mentioned in my mail that i'm a friend of Joe H, and also member of PSR Tutorial Forum.
He never reply to me  :(

I personally would never do that if a customer have questions or need help... i always reply no matter what.
The lack of support, more informative Tutorials how to use Style Magic, and his nonchalant attitude is the reason why many don't buy it.

I rather donate Jörgen some money once in a while because of his hard work and great software,
than buy Style Magic and support Thomas.

Thanks Jörgen.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Dick Rector on March 08, 2020, 04:31:21 AM
Hello friends, I need some help.
My Indonesian provider does not let me download the update zip trough the link from Tomasz neither the one mentioned here earlier. It is blocked as being whatever dangerous. No it is not my antivirus program. I wrote to Tomasz but did not get an answer. Does one of you just have the plain zip-file (without the whole link) and is willing to share it with me?
I do have the original program with a dongle.
Thanks very much in advance.

Dick Rector
Indonesia
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: valimaties on March 08, 2020, 10:54:29 AM
Hi.

First of all : EACH installer is made for each person, because installer contains the executable file encrypted with owner's USB stick. So don't post ever links gave by Thomas because is useless ;)

Second thing:
I have a quite long conversation with Thomas on emails, so he responded to me, to all my mails.
In October I have sent to him an email and I proposed him to make an "online" style player, as all styles which are playing with his soft to be able to play chords in keyboard, thru midi connection. He respond to me (late, but he did) that is a big propose and he don't think he can make this thing, because is a lot of job to do. This is the biggest missing thing in this software, because he cannot play but Major minor and 7th chord types and only if the style has its CASM section for those types of chords made separately. Which is not a bad thing but in most of cases, useless ;) 

PS: In it's program license it wrote something like that:
Quote
3.   The license is issued for an indefinite period. With the purchase of the license, the user acquires a subscription for ONE YEAR from the date of purchase. The subscription provides: free updates, free migration of the dongle to another USB stick, active link to the full version of the software, help in using the program.

So, by selling the commercial license and according to that paragraph on his license, he is somehow obliged to respond to Help emails on How his program works. But if you don't have a license, I don't think he is obliged to do something! Everyone can download his demo version, and use it. I don't thing Steinberg or other big brands respond to anyone by give them support in how to use their software. There are forums, there are a videos on youtube (but because of its use on entire world, is a big software) and everyone can use those things.

Regards,
Vali
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Bachus on March 08, 2020, 04:03:14 PM
In fact, subscriptions are the new deal, not because developers are "greedy", but because they want to stay in business.

If you think their product is overpriced, then you should enter the market and compete. Think of all the money you'll make (assuming you're right, of course).

Cheers,
Fred

Thats what i said, subscriptions are the new deal..

Did you see me say anywhere they are overpriced?

Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: WolfBack on March 08, 2020, 04:06:38 PM
IMHO, Thomas crash his head on a deadlock.
I think that StyleMagic will be abandoned by it's creator really soon if there's no more incomes on Thomas wallet and I'm really curious how many copies sold the last month... I hope to be wrong but I think he sold 1-2 (perhaps not a single copy at least). That's the reason of this subscriptions thing, as he last hope to gain more incoming from his older purchasers.
The big question: how will this program survive in the future? and Thomas has to focus on this issue before it's too late.
Lack of advertisement. If there's be no PSR Tutorial forum... I never heard a thing about StyleMagic.
Lack of tutorials. It's not a easy to use software, and the information about this is totally unused!A simple text file, a couple of confused videos on YT... and that's it! I don't have the time to learn this software by myself...
Outdated and hard to use UI. The user interface is so poor and the multieditor is a pain! Draw notes, delete notes, move notes, change the values, all that things takes time and everyone that uses a third party tool knows how easier can be if Thomas will be dispose a little of his time to make it better. For instance, a challenge for you all: Draw for me a linear control line on his multieditor. I burn my eyes with this damned thing!!!!
Competition & Support. Fortunately, Jörgens gave us a bunch of wonderful tools for free and he's supporting those tools and all will be thankfully for this. If anyone wants to SELL something, from a lighter to a helicopter, then he MUST support his work. He must stay close to his buyers and reply to theirs issues. Otherwise, give your stuff for free and leave them in piece to learn how it work by their selves. No bother at all!
All that I write is my thoughts and nothing more.
Im really hope for a brighter future of StyleMagic. I'm really am.

Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Jørgen on March 08, 2020, 04:44:21 PM
...
I rather donate Jörgen some money once in a while because of his hard work and great software,
than buy Style Magic and support Thomas.

Thanks Jörgen.

Regards, Jan.

Hi Jan
Thanks for your most kind words! Makes me both happy and proud...  :) :) :)

Jørgen
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Jørgen on March 08, 2020, 04:49:46 PM
...
Competition & Support. Fortunately, Jörgens gave us a bunch of wonderful tools for free and his supporting those tools and all will be thankfully for this.

...

Hi WolfBack
Thanks for your most kind words! Makes me both happy and proud...  :) :) :)

Jørgen
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Pino on March 09, 2020, 05:37:28 AM
Well, each to his own,
In my opinion this is the best all round program for Yamaha arranger keyboards available today.

What other program offers this -
Editing the style notes, write and erase
Moving sections around
Copy and past style parts, eg Bass
Editing the sounds
Editing the FX
Editing the Drums and voices
Editing the OTS
Delete intros 1 & 2 and ending 1 & 3
Style variations to AACC
Moving the drum fills around or deleting
And all that in 15 minutes or less

I don’t need anymore updates
I’m fine with StyleMagic as it
I think Thomas has done a good job on the MultiEditor on this update,
Now we can enter and delete notes easier than before
And adjust the gate time as we go.

We all do things in different ways and have different needs.
How much do you expect for $63
Thomas could probably write a program same quality as Steinberg
But he knows that the market is small, very small.
Just my opinion

Pino
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: ugawoga on March 09, 2020, 09:58:34 AM
Hi Pino
What do people expect for $63.
probably a V-Console ;D ;D :P ::) 8)

For me a Audi TT :)  ( probably a scale model)> :P


All the Best
John
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: Pino on March 09, 2020, 11:25:31 AM
John, don’t ‘stock pile’ on that Tizer 🤞
I am a Corona drinker myself 🍺
Only got one crate left now, won’t last till the weekend 😖

Thanks for your humor along the way 😂
So serious around here
Supposed to be entertainers 🤡

Pino
Title: Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
Post by: ugawoga on March 09, 2020, 04:46:38 PM
I get the Red Wine bug on Friday night ;)

The cure is a Prime Fillet Steak!!  :)