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Genos (10 Boards) => Genos - General => Topic started by: bluali on November 30, 2019, 02:39:19 PM

Title: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: bluali on November 30, 2019, 02:39:19 PM
I got this error whenever I want to save the installation pack to the USB: "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
I have done the followings:
1- uninstall the old YEM 2.5 and install the new YEM 2.60
2- export and add to YEM the new Genos V2.00 ID.n27
Voice Wave Size = 2601
Voice Parameter Size =15391
Pack Installation Size =3030
I could not find any document in Yamaha web site about the Waveform limits. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: EileenL on December 01, 2019, 12:59:39 AM
You don't have to uninstall the old YEM you just load the update straight on. You should now see that you have 3Gb memory.
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: Sokratis1974 on December 01, 2019, 06:33:19 AM
The same problem here with two my friends of mine...
YEM 2.6 Version
Genos 2.0 Version

1) (https://scontent.fath3-3.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/77318889_3088797827802207_4133297562973110272_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ohc=8ThWmATocrcAQn0gFGeaT2vxmyrwJEx2asPMkrETfsWMshylRJl1mEdig&_nc_ht=scontent.fath3-3.fna&oh=44854f14aa675736aabe0961d61f8fbf&oe=5E81E7FD)

2) (https://scontent.fath3-3.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/77022477_566333054132803_1629407233714421760_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ohc=Pqb6WPkpY5sAQk10ag9YMpsqOpaT81ZLnPqrzwUTBXZJrA_BOrE0SVk7A&_nc_ht=scontent.fath3-3.fna&oh=d2ecedf7d95122da5dfc1ab80fc6701b&oe=5E8641CB)
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: Bill on December 01, 2019, 11:24:33 AM
I think the Error Messages are very clear.
You have to many voices selected, simply reduce the number until you don't get the error.  The limits do not just apply to the overall physical size of the waveform data but also the quantity.

Regards

Bill
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: valimaties on December 01, 2019, 12:39:05 PM
Hi.
IMO, is a silly error. You have 3GB of Memory, but you can't achieve it because of numbers of user wave files?! A silly limitation, IMHO, which was present in old versions, too!
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: Sokratis1974 on December 01, 2019, 12:45:47 PM
I think the Error Messages are very clear.
You have to many voices selected, simply reduce the number until you don't get the error.  The limits do not just apply to the overall physical size of the waveform data but also the quantity.

Regards

Bill
Excuse me but I believe that you are incorrect in assuming that the amount of voices exceeds the given limit. In actuality the error message tells you of an excessive amount of WAVEFORM DATA (Samples). It simply recommends that you decrease the amount of voices  in order to reduce Waveform data. The problem lies in the fact that we do not have any information on any limitations with waveform data or voices. The number is unknown, not even being shown in YEM and it is an obvious flaw from Yamaha. And lastly not even the number of currently used waveform data (Samples) is being displayed in any way.
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: valimaties on December 01, 2019, 01:04:07 PM
Excuse me but I believe that you are incorrect in assuming that the amount of voices exceeds the given limit. In actuality the error message tells you of an excessive amount of WAVEFORM DATA (Samples). It simply recommends that you decrease the amount of voices  in order to reduce Waveform data. The problem lies in the fact that we do not have any information on any limitations with waveform data or voices. The number is unknown, not even being shown in YEM and it is an obvious flaw from Yamaha. And lastly not even the number of currently used waveform data (Samples) is being displayed in any way.

Look in the picture, it might tell you everything
(https://i.ibb.co/L8GDDwG/waveform.jpg)
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: Sokratis1974 on December 01, 2019, 01:14:49 PM
Look in the picture, it might tell you everything
(https://i.ibb.co/L8GDDwG/waveform.jpg)

My dear friend Vali,
I  don't know much about these types of things.
I do understand two main things,though:

1) Either yamaha or some other company(the same problem lies with the PAX4 version 3.0) gives us 3 gigabytes of RAM and we load waveform sounds until 3 gigabytes of RAM

2) They give us 3 gigabytes but they clearly point out the possible limitations

Which of these senarios coinside with reality?
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: valimaties on December 01, 2019, 01:19:53 PM
That's what I said in Reply #4 :)

A silly limitation, 3GB of memory, but you cannot use it because waveform limitation. :-\ :o
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: Lee Batchelor on December 01, 2019, 01:22:37 PM
Good research, Vali but you should point out to people that you have taken a look inside YEM with the use of the Notepad++ free text editor program. Is this information readily available to users without having to actually use another program to determine how much space has been used?

It's like going to a movie theater, buying your ticket and having to wait in the lobby for the next showing because the theater is full and the ticket agent didn't tell you. You're smarter because you've gone down the side ally of the building and taken a peek inside the theater through a fire exit door that was accidentally left open. You've seen that the theater is full and therefore, will wait until another time to buy your ticket so you don't have to stand in the lobby for three hours!

The moral is: Yamaha should display the memory usage right on the page - not through some hidden side door. I have never used YEM but from what I see it's often very sloppy and incomplete, not to mention way out of date in its design. I downloaded it once to add some free extra voices to my T5. I couldn't make heads or tails out of it from the instructions. 
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: valimaties on December 01, 2019, 02:00:32 PM
Good research, Vali but you should point out to people that you have taken a look inside YEM with the use of the Notepad++ free text editor program. Is this information readily available to users without having to actually use another program to determine how much space has been used?

It's like going to a movie theater, buying your ticket and having to wait in the lobby for the next showing because the theater is full and the ticket agent didn't tell you. You're smarter because you've gone down the side ally of the building and taken a peek inside the theater through a fire exit door that was accidentally left open. You've seen that the theater is full and therefore, will wait until another time to buy your ticket so you don't have to stand in the lobby for three hours!

The moral is: Yamaha should display the memory usage right on the page - not through some hidden side door. I have never used YEM but from what I see it's often very sloppy and incomplete, not to mention way out of date in its design. I downloaded it once to add some free extra voices to my T5. I couldn't make heads or tails out of it from the instructions.

Hi Lee.

Being a programmer, I have made thru time a lot of research, not only on YEM's structure. In my new version of YEM-CE I will count the number of total waveform used, it's an interesting idea ;)
Although, not every information could be real. Maybe what I've point out is not the answer for the problem, but I will make some new research on this error. I have to build packs with more and more waveforms till I will encounter the error, to see if this is the correct answer to the problem, and also, to see which is the approximate number of waveforms to load (silly).

PS: Nice analogy  ;D
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: Lee Batchelor on December 01, 2019, 02:07:45 PM
Thanks, Vali :)!
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: valimaties on December 01, 2019, 02:38:40 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/CmJSx13/Number-of-waveforms.jpg)

I've made a quick test, and I have 5367 waveform elements in my uvf files of YEM installation. This is total amount of wavefiles which I can count from ppf files, and I have to add at least one waveform (which is not correct  ;) ) for each voice of cpf file and one waveform for each key of a drum voice, and you will totally count a BIG number of waveform elements.  :-\
But, as I said, is NOT a good answer, as I did not count the number of waveform elements of SELECTED voices for installation in keyboard, but the total amount of waveform elements from the entire ppf packs installed in YEM. I will have to think of a good approach  ::)
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: Joe H on December 01, 2019, 03:17:51 PM
Hi.
IMO, is a silly error. You have 3GB of Memory, but you can't achieve it because of numbers of user wave files?! A silly limitation, IMHO, which was present in old versions, too!

As a programmer, do you feel Yamaha can fix this problem.  To us non-programmers this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. With 3GB of memory, it should be filled up with no limit on the number of wave forms.

You are right to say it is a silly error.

 :o

Joe H
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: valimaties on December 01, 2019, 03:46:30 PM
As a programmer, do you feel Yamaha can fix this problem.  To us non-programmers this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. With 3GB of memory, it should be filled up with no limit on the number of wave forms.

You are right to say it is a silly error.

 :o

Joe H

I don't know Joe! Maybe it's a limitation like number of files in a folder, in keyboard (it seems to be like that one) ;)  I don't know how they store the wave files in memory expansion chip. Maybe the chip itself it limits the number of files... I've maybe said foolish things, maybe @pjd can explain technical details about it :)
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: EileenL on December 01, 2019, 04:42:58 PM
My YEM shows
Voice Wave size    3072 MB
Voice parameter size   61440 KB
Pack install size    4996 MB

I have eighteen packs loaded two being quite large.
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: valimaties on December 01, 2019, 05:30:55 PM
My YEM shows
Voice Wave size    3072 MB
Voice parameter size   61440 KB
Pack install size    4996 MB

I have eighteen packs loaded two being quite large.

Every YEM 2.6 will show those sizes  ;)
What is the Voice Wave size of selected packs which you installed in your keyboard? How many voices there are?! That's a very important thing !
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: overover on December 01, 2019, 06:12:31 PM
Hi all,

using many Packs with many "REX based" Voices could be the problem here. Those Voices can contain an extremely large number of waveforms.

There is definitely an upper limit to the number of waveforms that can be installed / used on Genos. But the exact value is currently unknown to me.


P.S.
On Tyros4, the limits of VOICE RAM, WAVE COUNT and WAVEFORM COUNT were increased by the last Firmware Update (V1.10):

https://de.yamaha.com/de/support/updates/firm_tyros4.html

Maybe Yamaha can increase the upper limit of the relevant "Custom Voice-related" parameters also on Genos, by a future Firmware Update.


Best regards,
Chris
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: Bill on December 01, 2019, 06:56:06 PM
Excuse me but I believe that you are incorrect in assuming that the amount of voices exceeds the given limit.
In actuality the error message tells you of an excessive amount of WAVEFORM DATA (Samples).
It simply recommends that you decrease the amount of voices  in order to reduce Waveform data.

The problem lies in the fact that we do not have any information on any limitations with waveform data or voices. The number is unknown, not even being shown in YEM and it is an obvious flaw from Yamaha. And lastly not even the number of currently used waveform data (Samples) is being displayed in any way.

In the original posters picture the Wave Form Size was only 2.61 GB  so lots of space left. So if it is not the waveform count that is excessive what would you suggest that it is.   I know Yamaha do not give us all the limitations, but one thing is certain that a limit has been exceeded.   It would be very easy for the original poster to delete some voices and let us know if the problem is solved.

Regards

Bill
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: Jørgen on December 01, 2019, 07:02:28 PM
As a programmer, do you feel Yamaha can fix this problem.  To us non-programmers this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. With 3GB of memory, it should be filled up with no limit on the number of wave forms.

You are right to say it is a silly error.

 :o

Joe H

I will try to explain for non-programmers...  ;)
It's like having a big tourist bus with only 4 seats, and it is not allowed to stand.

Jørgen
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: valimaties on December 01, 2019, 08:06:21 PM
I will try to explain for non-programmers...  ;)
It's like having a big tourist bus with only 4 seats, and it is not allowed to stand.

Jørgen

LOL  ;D ;D
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: panos on December 01, 2019, 08:26:25 PM
I don't if it is relevant to the source of the problem or not.

From the YEM manual:
2.Assign Waves to that Element.
NOTE
Depending on the instrument to which the Pack is to be installed, the length of Waves that can be played back may be limited

2.Assign Waves to that Drum Key.
NOTE
Depending on the instrument to which the Pack is to be installed, the length of Waves that can be played back may be limited

Even Big Space has limits....
Theoretically speaking,is a Genos (or a PA4x ) able to produce any kind of a sound wave?
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: valimaties on December 01, 2019, 09:59:43 PM
I don't if it is relevant to the source of the problem or not.

From the YEM manual:
2.Assign Waves to that Element.
NOTE
Depending on the instrument to which the Pack is to be installed, the length of Waves that can be played back may be limited

2.Assign Waves to that Drum Key.
NOTE
Depending on the instrument to which the Pack is to be installed, the length of Waves that can be played back may be limited

Even Big Space has limits....
Theoretically speaking,is a Genos (or a PA4x ) able to produce any kind of a sound wave?

Hi panos.

"Length of waves" does not mean "Count of waves" ;) Length is length, count is count ;) There are two different things there.

Length = duration or time of a wave is played (without loop)
Size = Number of Bytes
Count = :) Count :D number of items (elements, files, objects, etc)

If they refers to other thing in that note, it means they have to rewrite the manual, because is wrote wrong and gives user wrong meaning ;) !
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: overover on December 01, 2019, 11:01:04 PM
Hi all,

I just opened the file "Expansion Manager.exe" by using "7-zip" archive program.

Inside this .exe file there is the text file ".rdata". I opened this file in Windows Editor and searched for the term "waveform", and I found the following text passage:

... waveformNum: Rounded to the range. (0..32767) ...

I suspect that this is the maximum number of waveforms supported by the Genos or YEM (at least at the moment, with Firmware 2.00).


Best regards,
Chris
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: valimaties on December 02, 2019, 12:00:36 AM
It is nice the message before that string: "no YEM, no life"  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You guys, you have such a big number of voices with a lot of elements inside?! If so, it is possible. I have a lot of custom content, but not that much with more than two elements, so most of them having only one element it uses only one waveform/voice. So, that's why I have only 5367 waveform data in all my ppf packs.
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: overover on December 02, 2019, 01:33:34 AM
It is nice the message before that string: "no YEM, no life"  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Yes, Vali, I had seen this funny message in that text file too. ;)

You guys, you have such a big number of voices with a lot of elements inside?! If so, it is possible. I have a lot of custom content, but not that much with more than two elements, so most of them having only one element it uses only one waveform/voice. So, that's why I have only 5367 waveform data in all my ppf packs.

The Yamaha Oriental "Local Packs" (available for Genos and PSR-A3000) and certain third party Voice&Style Expansion Packs can contain many REX-based Voices, and these Voices use a large number of waveforms. I suspect that this is the problem mentioned by sokratis and bluali (an extremely high number of waveforms needed by some of the Packs).


Best regards,
Chris
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: Fred Smith on December 02, 2019, 03:24:18 AM
Hi all,

I just opened the file "Expansion Manager.exe" by using "7-zip" archive program.

Inside this .exe file there is the text file ".rdata". I opened this file in Windows Editor and searched for the term "waveform", and I found the following text passage:

... waveformNum: Rounded to the range. (0..32767) ...

I suspect that this is the maximum number of waveforms supported by the Genos or YEM (at least at the moment, with Firmware 2.00).

32,767 as a limit would make a lot of sense as that's 2^15-1 -- the highest positive number you can store in a 16-bit word.

I doubt that this limit can be increased without a lot of programming, and even if it could, it's way down on Yamaha's priority list.

My bet is they will fix the error message to show the limit.

Cheers,
Fred
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: Joe H on December 02, 2019, 04:58:55 PM
My YEM shows
Voice Wave size    3072 MB
Voice parameter size   61440 KB
Pack install size    4996 MB

I have eighteen packs loaded two being quite large.

Eileen,

I think the issue is the number of samples.  So if you have created a pack(s) with lots of "multi sample" SF2 Voices or a lot of drum kits (these consist of many more samples) then you can reach the limit on the number of wave forms (samples) the keyboard memory allows.

Joe H
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: valimaties on December 02, 2019, 06:19:14 PM
Eileen,

I think the issue is the number of samples.  So if you have created a pack(s) with lots of "multi sample" SF2 Voices or a lot of drum kits (these consist of many more samples) then you can reach the limit on the number of wave forms (samples) the keyboard memory allows.

Joe H

Hi Joe.

I have to correct, a little bit! Number of samples can be different than number of waveforms. Why? It is simple, as you can use the same sample for one or more waveform or more than one sample for a waveform.
As I see in backdoor, a waveform is an element for normal voice and a key for a drum voice. So I think the biggest problem is created by drums.
Let's have a look to a DrumKit UVF file:

Here are the elements (each key represent an element/oscillator)
(https://i.ibb.co/jgYbhFK/voice-Element-Drumkit.jpg)

Here are the WaveForms
Each waveform is assigned to an element in DrumKits
(https://i.ibb.co/bJKswYp/waveforms-drumkit.jpg)

A waveform can be Mono or Stereo, which means that Samples Count coudd be 1 or 2. When it is Stereo, you can assign the same wave file for Left and For Right, but in professional studio the stereo recording process is made with 2 microphones, one in the left of the instrument and one in the right. Each sample will sounds different.
Here, in this drumkit, we will see two different wave sample files (different names):
(https://i.ibb.co/PcRykFs/samples-In-Drum.jpg)

For each sample there are different parameters which can be adjusted, but we don't know the signification of those parameters names :(  (they are like "z1", "z2", "coef1", etc). More than that, which is more strange to me, is that parameters which are NOT assigned to a visual control in YEM is reset to a default value if you want to change it manually! :( Something like Hard Codded in YEM :(

Regards,
Vali
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: valimaties on December 02, 2019, 11:25:17 PM
Right now I found that importing sf2 (probably other formats, too) and, also, creating a new Normal Voice in YEM will automatically create EMPTY waveform for all Elements/Oscillators ... And I think this is a HUGE bug, because in this case there are a lot of waveform which are creating in vain, and probably count to that waveformnum parameter  :-\

I will study this problem! :(

Edited:
I have extended my function to see how many waveforms are empty in all my installed packs. This is another instance of YEM, at my work, so there are other packs installed.
Be attention to picture, there are packs downloaded from Yamaha which has those empty waveforms inside uvf files.
Example of a voice: "ML in3-Normal-1" from Lebanon Pack. It has all the 8 oscillators presents in uvf file, and only the first one is filled with samples. As I said, when YEM creates an Element in UVF file, it assign automatically a waveform element. If a waveform contains samples it must contains "keybank" child element inside.
Note: this information is available only for ppf packs!!!

So look how many waveforms are empty in my packs! I hope this is not the problem, because if it is, it is silly bug in YEM!

(https://i.ibb.co/CJhJv8S/Empty-Waveforms.jpg)



Regards,
Vali
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: valimaties on December 03, 2019, 09:31:33 AM
So, I need testers which have this error trying to export the pack and giving this error with waveforms.

Please send me PM with your emails and I will provide my new YEM-CE executable to test this function with all instructions!

Let see what I have done:
Running the test version, I get a list of all voices in ppf which has those empty waveforms. So I've checked in YEM to see if there are indeed empty.

Picture 1: Drumkit YEM-CE, tells me which elements are empty and can be deleted:
(https://i.ibb.co/8DpwpNY/EW-Drum-Kit-YEMCE.jpg)

Picture 2: The same DrumKit in YEM
(https://i.ibb.co/CVn7qXV/EW-Drum-Kit.jpg)

Picture 3: A Normal Voice, shows me the same things, elements which are empty in YEM-CE
(https://i.ibb.co/683m7dx/EW-Voice-YEMCE.jpg)

Picture 4: Checking this voice in YEM to see if it's true (I've made printscreen only to the first 4 Elements in YEM)
(https://i.ibb.co/VWqfBvz/EW-Voice-YEM.jpg)


Picture 5: A new check, after removing empty Elements and Waveforms
(https://i.ibb.co/stTB8BD/Good-Number.jpg)


I will wait for testers!  ::)

Regards,
Vali

Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: Joe H on December 03, 2019, 07:49:36 PM
Vali,

Thank you for your explanation... it makes sense.  Seems like Yamaha COULD fix this problem with code to "ignore" those empty Elements.  It might be necessary to write code for YEM and the keyboard(s) OS.

What you you think about this?

Regards,
Joe H
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: valimaties on December 03, 2019, 10:35:10 PM
Vali,

Thank you for your explanation... it makes sense.  Seems like Yamaha COULD fix this problem with code to "ignore" those empty Elements.  It might be necessary to write code for YEM and the keyboard(s) OS.

What you you think about this?

Regards,
Joe H

Hi Joe.

Not for keyboard OS. The problem I think is in YEM only. It is enough to delete them, or better not create them as long they don't have any data loaded ;) I don't see the reason  ???

I will test myself on my data, to see what happening. I will try to load as many packs to reach that silly error.

Good night
(00:35 AM  (https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQC6vFU4Exaul7qXGWUCxPawzov0LO5XopzXQUXr3O0C-reqFvZ&s))
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: Joe H on December 04, 2019, 09:17:36 PM
Vali,

I did a little testing of my own.  I have several "dummy" packs to call up my Motif Rack Users Voices that consist of just Voice names and no wave forms.

I see that when I add these dummy packs to my combined (installation) pack the Voice Wave size does not even register (no Wave Forms) but the Voice Parameter size goes up with each dummy pack I add and can exceed the Voice Parameter size limit even though the Voice Wave size is within the S970 509MB limit. 

I think this is why I experienced a dummy pack not "fully" loading.

So I think as explained in this thread, there is a limit to the number of Voices. (16 bit capacity as Fred states) And as Jorgen explained,  It's like having a bus big enough to hold 100  seats, but when you get in the bus there is only 25 seats. (so what's the point of having all that memory for packs if we can't use it?)

It's a matter of Voice Wave Size vs. Voice Parameter Size.  So... we can have a lot of leftover memory for Wave Size (memory) and use up all the available Parameter Size (capacity).

Does that make sense?

Joe H
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: valimaties on December 04, 2019, 10:41:29 PM
Hi Joe.

I don't think there is problems with Wave Size and Parameter Size, as the error came from the number of waveforms used in voices. As I have related already.

BTW, tonight, wanted to build and to give to Ali and to a romanian friend the executable of the new YEM-CE, I have encountered an error regarding of deleting the empty waveforms, on the installation in my main YEM, not the one for tests, but the one I use in gigs. So, of course, I starts checking why. I have encountered errors regarding to voices imported from T4, converted through uvn importing process, came from the old versions of YEM (2.3 till now, which btw, I used them till now).
These are the errors:

Double click on the voice, to open Voice Editor in YEM shows this:
(https://i.ibb.co/jGDpd9q/YEM-Problem1.jpg)

Clicking YES it creates new voice (a new uvf in my pack):
(https://i.ibb.co/Zhzzb1y/YEM-Problem2.jpg)

Editing it, I have noticed that wave files are missing, and I cannot really edit those voices:
(https://i.ibb.co/4tgTL1R/YEM-Problem3.jpg)

Again to study :(((
waveforms are not anymore the first thing to remove, because are bond with other new things from voiceElement  :-[

PS: Because we don't have a real xsd file of Yamaha's voice uvf file, we have to gain all the possibilities to be able to make a good job  :-X

Study, study... >:(
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: valimaties on December 08, 2019, 10:33:13 PM
Tonight I have deleted all my packs and reinstalled in new version of YEM, 2.0. So, the same packs, but imported in new version, as new packs.
What I've discovered?! Number of waveforms DRASTICALLY diminished !!!
So, this made me thinking that those who have problems with Waveform error, if you delete all packs and reinstall them on new YEM, it will solve the problem. I think there was some problems in old versions (2.5.2 was a full-error version) which damaged information about voices. This problem, only by reinstalling new version of YEM does NOT solve the problem.
As an example, a printscreen, I think at least 2000 waveforms disapeared  ???
(https://i.ibb.co/1K13Txf/Packs-waveforms.png)
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: bluali on December 10, 2019, 01:19:17 AM
Tonight I have deleted all my packs and reinstalled in new version of YEM, 2.0. So, the same packs, but imported in new version, as new packs. .... if you delete all packs and reinstall them on new YEM, it will solve the problem.....
Dear Vali, With all due respect, Sir, I don't think that's the case. if you have read my explanations in the beginning of this post, I have explained that I had re-installed everything from scratch even I had re-imported the n27(ver 2.00),  I even had deleted the old YEM directory in "App data" .  Anyhow I appreciate your help and thanks for trying.
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: valimaties on December 11, 2019, 12:38:17 PM
Thanks Ali.

I've sent you an email with test version. Please read very carefully the Note in email.
I will wait for feedback.

Regards,
Vali
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: bluali on December 12, 2019, 12:18:13 AM
Thanks Ali. ....I've sent you an email with test version. Please read very carefully the Note in email.
I will wait for feedback....

Hi Vali,
Thank you so much for the efforts. I will try your program and let you know the results. Thanks again
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: bluali on December 13, 2019, 01:22:43 AM
Thanks Ali. .....I've sent you an email with test version. Please read very carefully the Note in email. .... will wait for feedback...
Hi Vali,
Your software is a very good enhancement to YEM, I hope Yamaha learn that and add all features of your software into the current YEM, Very good job! I already sent you my feedback to your email. Thanks again for your help,
Ali
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: Joe H on December 13, 2019, 04:35:03 AM
Hi Vali,
Your software is a very good enhancement to YEM, I hope Yamaha learn that and add all features of your software into the current YEM, Very good job! I already sent you my feedback to your email. Thanks again for your help,
Ali

Yes, but there is a problem with it... I have sent Vali a report. Maybe my findings for the S970 and YEM v2.5.3 do not work with the YEMCE v2 software.  Vali will tell us.

Joe H
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: valimaties on December 13, 2019, 07:48:21 PM
Thank you guys for your help. I really appreciate it a lot.

Sadly, I don't have good news. My researches founds a lot of empty waveforms and blank elements, which in my opinion does not fit to the logic of reading xml (uvf) file!
Strange than that, is, as you also view, selecting Genos keyboard I will have 0 size of Voice Parameter after deleting empty waveforms and element banks, BUT, changing to SX900 in YEM it will calculate a value different than zero, which is very strange! The files are almost the same, I don't know which is the logic of different values  ??? More than that, with original files, before deleting, the values of voice parameters are totally insane, comparing them.
I think I will take some days of "relax" ... and after Joe will answer to my demands, I will try to do more research!
Till then...

Best regards,
Vali!
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: anandmaloo on January 07, 2020, 10:26:59 AM
Hi,

I had a Genos and I was facing a lot of these errors while creating the ppi. So I had to deselect a lot of my files within the packs to reduce their number and then only was I able to create the ppi for my Genos

Now I bought an SX900 as well, imported the instrument info in same YEM and created a ppi for my SX900 without deleting any of the files (which I had to, for creating the ppi in Genos)

And voila - my ppi for SX900 is created without a hitch. So this ppi is bigger in size than GENOS ppi. HOW???????????????

Attached is the pic showing size of the various parameters of the two ppi side by side. Every parameter of SX900 ppi is higher then Genos. The same ppi which was made for SX900 failed to make in Genos with same specifications

What am I doing wrong here !!

Will clearing of the empty waveforms in the YEM explorer help?

Regards

Anand


Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: valimaties on January 07, 2020, 09:52:18 PM
Hi Anand.

I have a suggestion for you. Export each pack as ppf (or cpf, if pack is protected) or if you have them already in your PC as ppf or cpf, skip this step.
Make a picture to LSB screen (order of packs).
Delete the folder of YEM installation from user and open your YEM again.
It will starts empty. Install n27 files for Genos and for SX900, import all ppfs and then reorder them (or you can import in the order you see in screenshot already done). Select all content you want to install in keyboard and then see if any of the values has changed.

I think YEM has a problem removing sometimes selected content flag, or some packs remains undeleted in index file of YEM. This happened to Joe H, too. I suggested him to do this job and after this process everything was fine.

You can now use my YEM-CE v2 to remove unwanted empty waveforms to release some of the voice parameter size. Try it.

Make sure to make a backup of user folder before editing something there ;) ( "%localappdata%\Yamaha\Expansion Manager" )

Regards,
Vali
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: elad770 on January 08, 2020, 01:13:30 AM
I received the same messages even though the Wave total information is clearly under 3gb.

The problem is the Pack Installation file. If this file exceeds 4096mb The program will issue the same Wave warning.

You  can confirm this by clicking on the drop-down window: "Pack install file size"
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: Joe H on January 08, 2020, 02:59:17 AM
elad770,

Did you see that Vali released a new version... YEM-CE v2. 

https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,53624.msg417847.html#msg417847 (https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,53624.msg417847.html#msg417847)

He fixed the problem with empty wave forms.   

Joe H
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: elad770 on January 08, 2020, 03:32:53 AM
I'm definitely going to install his software. I think he did a great job!

I think though, this has nothing to do with it.
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: Zaurafon on March 09, 2020, 12:14:03 AM

1. Hello. I would like to share my tests, which lasted a very long time. All the same, I think I found the WaveForms limit in Expansion Manager. 32768 Maximum Waveforms

2. after I delete the empty WaveForms, if I made any changes to the Expansion Manager, Voice Creator, and save the sound, then all empty WaveForms come back from exactly the sound you edited. after each Editing will have to be deleted again.

3. For some reason, when I drop it into Expansion Manager into one package the same samples, for example, one REX file 10 times. 10 identical copies Then it will take up space as from a single Wave Ram Size file. But Waveforms Will Occupy Under 10 Rex Files

sorry for my bad english)) I write through google Translate;)
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: valimaties on March 09, 2020, 02:12:37 PM
Hi.

First of all, YES, deleting process must be done every time before you want to send data to your keyboard. Empty waveforms are created by YEM's Voice Creator!

Second, if you could provide me that Rex file, I can make some tests, otherwise, I don't know what to search for :)

Regards,
Vali
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: valimaties on March 09, 2020, 10:49:10 PM
Ok.

First of all, thank you for files for test.
I saw now that you are using a lot of rex files which are Drums.
I don't know WHY they do that , but in Drums, each key has a waveform attached. In other types of voices, an element is a waveform.
So think about that for a normal voice you can use maximum of 8 waveforms, but for drums you use A LOT. That's why you reached so quickly the limit!

Unfortunately, I cannot do anything in this case.
Even if I remove those empty waveforms in drums (un-assigned keys) the number of waveforms is big.

I see only one solution here: Drums to be created exactly like normal voices (not by you, but Yamaha to create in the same way the file), which I think will never be done :)
Edited: Or two: the number of waveforms to be increased to a bigger one, thru a software/firmware update.

PS: If you find a solution to reduce the number of Drums files in your imported files, you can use your content, otherwise it will be a problem for you!
As a suggestion: If you use the same key/note/sound in your all drums, don't import them in all, use the sound in only one drum and open DrumSetup to get the needed sound from the drum which has needed sound! In this way, you will free up some of the waveforms. For example, cowbell sound, you can find it in a lot of drums in keyboard, or other percussion sounds, too ;)

Best regards,
Vali
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: Zaurafon on March 10, 2020, 09:02:16 AM
Ok.

First of all, thank you for files for test.
I saw now that you are using a lot of rex files which are Drums.
I don't know WHY they do that , but in Drums, each key has a waveform attached. In other types of voices, an element is a waveform.
So think about that for a normal voice you can use maximum of 8 waveforms, but for drums you use A LOT. That's why you reached so quickly the limit!

Unfortunately, I cannot do anything in this case.
Even if I remove those empty waveforms in drums (un-assigned keys) the number of waveforms is big.

I see only one solution here: Drums to be created exactly like normal voices (not by you, but Yamaha to create in the same way the file), which I think will never be done :)
Edited: Or two: the number of waveforms to be increased to a bigger one, thru a software/firmware update.

PS: If you find a solution to reduce the number of Drums files in your imported files, you can use your content, otherwise it will be a problem for you!
As a suggestion: If you use the same key/note/sound in your all drums, don't import them in all, use the sound in only one drum and open DrumSetup to get the needed sound from the drum which has needed sound! In this way, you will free up some of the waveforms. For example, cowbell sound, you can find it in a lot of drums in keyboard, or other percussion sounds, too ;)

Best regards,
Vali

Hi about Drum Setup. It is useless in this situation, because unfortunately the Drum Kits that are in the Expansion Manager. You can use only 70 of them, the rest just can't be seen. I wrote about this to Yamaha but never received any answer. And by the way, these 70 Drum Kits do not show in turn, for example, Packet1 Packet2 Packet3. Or maybe they will show at first Drum Kits From the 10th package and then, for example, from the third, ignore the remaining first second since it exceeds 70 Drum Kits

2.I understand the same structure they have on Yamaha Motif & Montage. Each WaveForm Bank This is one Multisampler If it is a regular Voice You can upload Up to 118 wave Files And it will be considered as 1 Waveform. And if you collect DrumKit, then each WaveFile takes 1 Waveform Bank. For example, if you have 67 Different Wave Files in one Drum Kits, then it will take 67 Waveforms.
Title: Re: YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"
Post by: valimaties on March 10, 2020, 12:49:25 PM
That's what I said, too  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Ok. About Drum Kits in Drum setup, seems it is also taking care of number of waveforms because I could upload only 64 drum kits to be able to see all of them in Drum Setup.

Regards,
Vali