PSR Tutorial Forum
Genos (12 Boards) => Genos - General => Topic started by: Mike2 on June 28, 2019, 10:44:16 PM
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I read all these opinions and hopes about the 1.40 upgrade, and say to myself, wow didn't realize the Genos
was that limited and lacking so much. I own the Genos, and yes nothing is perfect, but after reading all these
wishes and yes, complaints, don't know how anyone can enjoy what they already have. But, we live in a world of
expecting perfection, so for those in that camp, I feel sorry for you. Even if Yamaha would upgrade to your Genos
to your desire, you would after a few day still feel empty. Like something is always lacking. My 2 cents worth is, enjoy this
awesome keyboard, and relax.
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I certainly enjoy mine and I am happy with the update. A lot more assignable things and the sliders work much better now more positive.
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Same here.
The Genos is an awesome KB with lots of features.
To many for the average player.
Some even have returned their Genos, because they found it too complicated. ...
Technology always moves forward and more and more is being added to KB's nowadays ...
At this point I am enjoying the **** out of it and look at what I can do with it rather than what I can't
Regards
Eric
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Hi Eric,
I think if Genos was perfect (of which most things are not) people would still find something to down it. I say if you don't like it then get something else and let the rest of us enjoy what we have.
No one likes reading all this moaning and groaning. You know that as soon as something new comes out it is going to be jumped on.
I still enjoy my Genos a lot and it dose everything that I want to enjoy playing it live.
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Very well said Eileen.
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Hi Eric,
I think if Genos was perfect (of which most things are not) people would still find something to down it. I say if you don't like it then get something else and let the rest of us enjoy what we have.
No one likes reading all this moaning and groaning. You know that as soon as something new comes out it is going to be jumped on.
I still enjoy my Genos a lot and it dose everything that I want to enjoy playing it live.
Hi Eileen, and other who enjoy this keyboard.
I did not say I not enjoy it, or I don't make gigs with it, as it is! I do, and I have a lot of gigs, believe me.
But, in the world there are people who are gratefully with what God give them (I am too), and those people who, above the others, wants more in life! I don't want to stop here! I don't want to think "that's it"! WHY?! Some of us are advanced users/players of this keyboard and other ones, pianos, even other instruments... Why we have only to gratefully only with this if we now there is more potential, but in the fact, the things which bothers us are not solved in a year and a half from the launch of it?!
I (and others), we know you are pleased, you enjoy it. Very well ! Enjoy it, but let us speak about problems there are in this keyboard, that Yamaha see and solve those problems! I told it in the past and I tell now again: if someone's problem exists and he/she encountered it, that does not mean this has to be solved with a workaround thing! It must be working as it has to be!
I, personally, don't care why some of you does not recognize that this (wonderful, yes) keyboard has glitches and bugs. Maybe, you, how you play, and how do you highly use this keyboard, you don't encounter problems. It's very ok, sing and play a lot as you play.
We, others, which encounter problems, we want to tell about them, to be known, and to complain, because we expect on a TOTL arranger to work at least without operating problems, all controls to work fine. I expect for Style Reset function till 1.20 version has come. I tough it will be in 1.20. After that I tough it will be in 1.30, now in 1.40. They don't care about it, because of you, those which are negate the utility of new functions. You post every time "it's not needed" that, and that, and that! Why those functions are bad in the keyboard? What bothers you so much the presence of some new functions?! Why don't you align with other users which care about Yamaha keyboards and wants more?
I think it is not unity from you, guys! Yes, I don't use midi files, but I did not say never that is a bul...s.. the presence of that player in keyboards. Let it be, if someone use it, let it be there, I don't care who use it and who not!
Please, be more kind with the people who want more things, or want some functions to be repaired (like registration bank). If someone told about a problem, before saying it is not a problem, test on your keyboard the given information, and if it is happening to you too, that means it is a problem. Yes, maybe not for you, but for other might be! So, I encourage the unity, not for "let it be as it is" !
Best regards, and I hope some day all of you will think as it might to be, for others too, not only for you!
Vali
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Hi
I have changed my approach to things now
Instead of bull at a gate, i now take one step at a time and it is working.
The Genos is a learn curve and the more you delve the better things get.
Cubase was a headache ,but once you get over connections things start to look rosey.
It is just a matter of slow aquired knowledge for me.
I find writing things down in a notebook helps to jog the memory if something gets forgotten.
I am home studio based , but if you are gigging, preparation is the key so your set goes swimmingly.
Personally i do not want to gig as i had done all of that in my Disco Days and completed my 15 minutes.
All the best
John :)
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Hi Eileen, and other who enjoy this keyboard.
I did not say I not enjoy it, or I don't make gigs with it, as it is! I do, and I have a lot of gigs, believe me.
But, in the world there are people who are gratefully with what God give them (I am too), and those people who, above the others, wants more in life! I don't want to stop here! I don't want to think "that's it"! WHY?! Some of us are advanced users/players of this keyboard and other ones, pianos, even other instruments... Why we have only to gratefully only with this if we now there is more potential, but in the fact, the things which bothers us are not solved in a year and a half from the launch of it?!
I (and others), we know you are pleased, you enjoy it. Very well ! Enjoy it, but let us speak about problems there are in this keyboard, that Yamaha see and solve those problems! I told it in the past and I tell now again: if someone's problem exists and he/she encountered it, that does not mean this has to be solved with a workaround thing! It must be working as it has to be!
I, personally, don't care why some of you does not recognize that this (wonderful, yes) keyboard has glitches and bugs. Maybe, you, how you play, and how do you highly use this keyboard, you don't encounter problems. It's very ok, sing and play a lot as you play.
We, others, which encounter problems, we want to tell about them, to be known, and to complain, because we expect on a TOTL arranger to work at least without operating problems, all controls to work fine. I expect for Style Reset function till 1.20 version has come. I tough it will be in 1.20. After that I tough it will be in 1.30, now in 1.40. They don't care about it, because of you, those which are negate the utility of new functions. You post every time "it's not needed" that, and that, and that! Why those functions are bad in the keyboard? What bothers you so much the presence of some new functions?! Why don't you align with other users which care about Yamaha keyboards and wants more?
I think it is not unity from you, guys! Yes, I don't use midi files, but I did not say never that is a bul...s.. the presence of that player in keyboards. Let it be, if someone use it, let it be there, I don't care who use it and who not!
Please, be more kind with the people who want more things, or want some functions to be repaired (like registration bank). If someone told about a problem, before saying it is not a problem, test on your keyboard the given information, and if it is happening to you too, that means it is a problem. Yes, maybe not for you, but for other might be! So, I encourage the unity, not for "let it be as it is" !
Best regards, and I hope some day all of you will think as it might to be, for others too, not only for you!
Vali
Very well said Vali,very well.... I agre 100% .
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No one likes reading all this moaning and groaning.
With all my respect to you EileenL "moaning and groaning" is only way Yamaha will do something. And YES we learned from past that Yamaha listen a lot of "moaning and groaning" and fixed ,improved ,added and so more.
Also a lot of "moaning and groaning" ideas Yamaha got for FREE and added in new generations keyboards.
And yes I am very hapy with my Genos and will be more if they add some more stuf..
Best regards.
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I really hoped that the 1.40 version would fix the multiple DSP Parameters registration issue, but unfortunately it's not the case :/
It would open a whole new world of possibilities for new sounds, but stacking multiples tweaked DSPs on a voice.
It seems that most people are only using preset voices, the most adventurous are changing some parameters in the 'Voice Edit' menu, but that's it...
With more than 1 year of delay between 1.30 and 1.40, I must say that I'm really disappointed with such a small update... (come on ! the 'External Display' should have worked since v1.00, other thing are nice but really minor features...)
The Montage/MODX updates where much more interesting (new voices, new dsp effects, new features, and so on...)... I really hope that Yamaha will do the same for the Genos, it deserve it ! (and has the potential for it !).
I don't know if the rumors for a next update (1.5 ?) are true, but I really hope they will take into account our feedback !
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Hi Eric,
I think if Genos was perfect (of which most things are not) people would still find something to down it. I say if you don't like it then get something else and let the rest of us enjoy what we have.
No one likes reading all this moaning and groaning. You know that as soon as something new comes out it is going to be jumped on.
I still enjoy my Genos a lot and it dose everything that I want to enjoy playing it live.
If people did not " moan and groan" there probably would have been no updates at all.
Especially this one.
And the constant mantra of " if you don't like it get something else " is an insult to people
who have spent their hard earned money buying this expensive keyboard.
Civility is a sign of strength, not weakness.
Best Regards.
Abby.
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Abby,
Moaning and groaning is fine if it's constructive. The problem is that most moaning on this forum is not. And in all the years I've been on this forum, it's unique to the Genos. I never saw it with the Tyros or PSR. I've also never seen before where posters were disparaged for simply saying they were happy with their instrument.
An example of a constructive criticism is Wim's post on "Still no acces to user styles in Song Record>Multi Record>Step Edit>Target". That problem I can understand, is well documented, and can be replicated. This is something that's easy to get behind and push Yamaha to implement.
An example of unconstructive criticism is complaining that after upgrading to OS 1.4, you can't go back to 1.3. You say you want improvements, but then you also want to go backwards? How in the world is any company supposed to handle that? If you insist you want to stay in the past, then Yamaha's response is easy: Fine, we'll save all our time and effort and leave things alone. Then we won't get this complaint.
Another is example is Kaarlo's post on what of your wishlist was implemented in 1.4. There weren't more than two replies before the moaners took over and destroyed the thread. How does that help?
You ask for a "Style Reset" feature. But what is that? Is it well documented? Can it be replicated? Will it impact any other feature of the keyboard?
We all want to see improvements, especially when they are free. As we've seen in every case, from 1.0 to 1.1 to 1.2 to 1.3 to 1.4, Yamaha have fixed bugs and introduced new features. But what response do they get? More than once, it's "totally useless". With this response, why would anyone bother to continue?
Moaners are their own worst enemy. If someone can never be pleased, then there's no use trying to.
To get improvements to any piece of software, you need to ensure it's: specific, understandable, not a user error, is able to be replicated and doesn't negatively affect other users.
And thanking Yamaha for the improvements they've made in the past wouldn't hurt either.
Cheers,
Fred
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Hi Eileen, and other who enjoy this keyboard.
I did not say I not enjoy it, or I don't make gigs with it, as it is! I do, and I have a lot of gigs, believe me.
But, in the world there are people who are gratefully with what God give them (I am too), and those people who, above the others, wants more in life! I don't want to stop here! I don't want to think "that's it"! WHY?! Some of us are advanced users/players of this keyboard and other ones, pianos, even other instruments... Why we have only to gratefully only with this if we now there is more potential, but in the fact, the things which bothers us are not solved in a year and a half from the launch of it?!
I (and others), we know you are pleased, you enjoy it. Very well ! Enjoy it, but let us speak about problems there are in this keyboard, that Yamaha see and solve those problems! I told it in the past and I tell now again: if someone's problem exists and he/she encountered it, that does not mean this has to be solved with a workaround thing! It must be working as it has to be!
I, personally, don't care why some of you does not recognize that this (wonderful, yes) keyboard has glitches and bugs. Maybe, you, how you play, and how do you highly use this keyboard, you don't encounter problems. It's very ok, sing and play a lot as you play.
We, others, which encounter problems, we want to tell about them, to be known, and to complain, because we expect on a TOTL arranger to work at least without operating problems, all controls to work fine. I expect for Style Reset function till 1.20 version has come. I tough it will be in 1.20. After that I tough it will be in 1.30, now in 1.40. They don't care about it, because of you, those which are negate the utility of new functions. You post every time "it's not needed" that, and that, and that! Why those functions are bad in the keyboard? What bothers you so much the presence of some new functions?! Why don't you align with other users which care about Yamaha keyboards and wants more?
I think it is not unity from you, guys! Yes, I don't use midi files, but I did not say never that is a bul...s.. the presence of that player in keyboards. Let it be, if someone use it, let it be there, I don't care who use it and who not!
Please, be more kind with the people who want more things, or want some functions to be repaired (like registration bank). If someone told about a problem, before saying it is not a problem, test on your keyboard the given information, and if it is happening to you too, that means it is a problem. Yes, maybe not for you, but for other might be! So, I encourage the unity, not for "let it be as it is" !
Best regards, and I hope some day all of you will think as it might to be, for others too, not only for you!
Vali
I agree Vali
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Hi,
Please accept not all Genos customers are pleased with the 1.40 update.
They are clearly explaining here why they are disappointed and what has to be improved to get the best out of their Genos.
They are expecting all these problems will be solved asap.
Babette
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Abby,
Moaners are their own worst enemy. If someone can never be pleased, then there's no use trying to.
To get improvements to any piece of software, you need to ensure it's: specific, understandable, not a user error, is able to be replicated and doesn't negatively affect other users.
And thanking Yamaha for the improvements they've made in the past wouldn't hurt either.
Cheers,
Fred
Hello Fred.
Why should anybody thank Yamaha for something that they should have done from
the get go. And it's not like they've given the keyboard away for free.
This reminds me of the tale of Oliver Twist.
"Oliver Twist, trembling, bowl in hand, begged Mr. Bumble for gruel with his famous request:
"Please, sir, I want some more".
A great uproar ensued, and the board of well-fed gentlemen who administered the workhouse
got terribly upset."
In my response above I was irked by people always saying that they're being prevented
from enjoying their Genos, and if someone is not satisfied with it they should go get
something else.
Some people had to save for months and spend their last cent buying this keyboard.
Nobody here is stopping anyone from enjoying their Genos, but those who feel that they
have a right to ask for more should also be allowed to do so.
Progress has never been achieved by those who accept what they've been given and
keep quiet.
Rather it's been achieved by those who said "this is not enough and more could be done."
We would still be having gas lighting in the streets and using pigeons to send messages
if someone had not said this is not enough and more can be done.
I perform every night and would love to have the entire audience to like my performances.
Some don't, and if I were to tell them " if you don't like it go somewhere else "
then I would be the one going somewhere else, looking for a new job.
Best Regards.
Abby.
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Fred,
Yamaha Marketing are their own worst enemy. This update was trailed with a flashy video and impressive claims. I think it's fair to say that it actually contains fairly minor changes. Some people feel they have been misled about what to expect. (Others saw the marketing puff for what it was).
As for going back a version - imagine if you're a gigging musician with a full diary, you apply the update, and there is some serious issue that renders a lot of your registrations unseable. You would want to revert back to the previous version ASAP. I am personally surprised that this update can't be undone.
Edit : Sorry Fred, I don't buy your theory about the registration file structure. Otherwise, registrations created on a V1.4 Genos could not be shared with people who have not updated. I would have expected that restriction to be explicitly called out in the release notes if it were true.
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Dear Vali,
I have been following you on this site because your posts are so good and - childhood is important - some 80 years ago the Rumanian ambassador to Finland used to take us kids for a ride in his car :) Only diplomats had cars then.
Please excuse me for using your excellent text and inserting some comments instead of using the quote system. This post might get too long. I have boldened the passages I feel are the most important ones.
.... in fact, the things that bother us have not been solved in a year and a half from the launch....
Exactly !
....Enjoy your Genos, but let us speak about the problems there are in this keyboard... so that Yamaha sees and solves them... existing problems should be solved and not by a "work-around" ...
Like you I am not happy being told by those associated with the manufacturer "No problem, there is a work-around." That is ok only if the problem is taken care of in the next update, which in most cases has not been the case.
.... don't undertandd why some do not recognize that this (wonderful, yes) keyboard has glitches and bugs.
You put it kindly, we need to understand who those "some" are, then it is easy to understand. Everybody declared I was doing something wrong. (Except Lee !) Nobody told me, "there might be a defect in your internal memory, try copying ALL 520 styles and redo the 50 memorybanks on a stick. That took me days, turned out to be "the work around." So now I know there is a defect in the internal memory of my Genos that even the service reset was unable to find. Genos like everything else can have hard to detect defective components.
.....Maybe ... the way you play ... and use this keyboard, you don't encounter problems...we, others, who encounter problems want to talk about them ...because we expect a top of the line arranger to work ... without operating problems...I waited for the Style Reset function till v.1.20 came out. I though it will be in 1.20. After that I thought it will be in 1.30, now in 1.40....They don't care about it, because of those like you who negate the utility of new functions...You post every time "it's not needed"....What bothers you so much about some new functions?!...Why can't you agree with other users ...who want more? ... I don't use midi files, but I have never said that the presence of the midi player in keyboards is bul...s.. ... If someone uses it, let it be there...Please, be more kind to those who want more things, or want some functions to be repaired (like registration bank). If someone brings up a problem, before saying it is not a problem, test the given information on your keyboard , and if it is happening to you too, that means it is a problem.....maybe not for you, but for others ...So, I encourage us not say "let it be as it is" ! .... I hope some day all of us will adopt a positive attitude towards those who differ in view.
Thanks Vali
Cheers
Kaarlo
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Please accept not all Genos customers are pleased with the 1.40 update.
They are clearly explaining here why they are disappointed and what has to be improved to get the best out of their Genos.
They are expecting all these problems will be solved asap.
That’s my problem, Babette. They’re not clearly explained. Wim's problem I can understand. The others I can’t.
Cheers,
Fred
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If you have defective components in your keyboard internal memory Kaarlo why has your dealer not had this put right for you and had it replaced. I certainly would insist on this being done if it were my keyboard.
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Hi Kaarlo.
Thank you very much for very well translation (you understood perfectly what I wrote in my defective english :) )! I must say I am not a good english speaker, so in most of cases I use google translation, which most of time translate word-by-word and not as expressions :)
But if you understood me, I think a day-by-day english speaker could understand me!
In fact, I want to apologize to those who not understand my post very well. I graduate a long time ago, and even english language was the primary foreign language in collage, I forgot a lot of things. God help me that programming is not about grammar or to know language perfect :D
Regards,
Vali
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That’s my problem, Babette. They’re not clearly explained. Wim's problem I can understand. The others I can’t.
Cheers,
Fred
Hi Fred.
Did you have at least 5 minutes a Korg arranger on your hands?
If yes, did you press the "Tap Tempo / Reset" button?
It's simply, every time you will press, in any moment, it will reset the style to the first beat of the first measure. Like you have the style in stand by (when you did not start the melody, and it's time to play) and press the keys. The Sync Stop function is useless in some conditions, even if we activate the options for sync stop window from global setting. This window depends very much for the style you play, and the speed of the style ;)
I think I was very clearly when I spoke about this function to be implemented in this keyboard as an assignable function. It is very simple, is not complicated and I don't think implies anything that may blow up the keyboard's OS! Think about that could be a marker in your midi file that tells system to go to certain measure ;) This marker will tell style engine "go to 01:01:0000" ;) And every time you will press, in any moment it will say that ! What is so difficult?
Regards,
Vali
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It's simply, every time you will press, in any moment, it will reset the style to the first beat of the first measure.
Regards,
Vali
Dear Vali,
I happen to still have my YAMAHA 5700 the top model decades ago, in some aspects never surpased. It has exactly the reset function to beat one you describe (of an up to 8 bars long style !) For me it was easy to understand what you meant.
Cheers
Kaarlo
Ps. Thanks for you kind words, please believe memy goal was not to correct your English, just shorten your text to be able to writen into it. Leaving out many sentences I felt necessitated some slight re-wording in order to preserve the original meaning I am sure everyone reading your original post understood perfectly what you meant, though it may have been hard to swallow ;)
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Abby,
Moaning and groaning is fine if it's constructive. The problem is that most moaning on this forum is not.
I completely Disagree with you.
I read the long threads as well and most people simply have different expectations. This doesn't mean they are not enjoying their keyboard. It doesn't mean they seat all day and do nothing but thinking how Yamaha is not listening to them. It doesn't mean that they are moaning and groaning. Those who don't like the difference of views and opinions can easily skip threads or skip the forum
I think most people are actually entertained from the difference of views. From one person joy is one person's disappointment. This forum is diverse and should include everyone
I never came across one comment that was out of place and improper. I don't see people desires and wishes as complaints. This attitude of never settle and always strive for more is what makes technologies revolutionary and break boundaries, so these type of views i not only welcome i think they are a MUST!
Stop shutting down people just because you don't like their complaintive tone. I truly feel that NO ONE really takes a keyboard firmware update that seriously
People probably have jobs and families and other important things, But this amazing forum is unique because it provides and an outlet for different people with different personalities
Some people just like to log in and look for new Styles - So be it
Some people just like to log in click on Eileen new posts and read that
Some people like to catch on new technology
And some people like to juice it up and spice it up a little bit with sharing opposite views - What is wrong with that?
Comments are respectful and don't include improper words - ALL WELCOME!
I opened a thread called "Save my behind" for G-d Sake. If people find not interesting they can SKIP IT!
People might sound complaintive only because Yamaha is doing such a great job: Think about it!
Yamaha is breaking the barriers of what's possible from an arranger, They stimulate our minds and imagination force us to say:- what else could be possible! I want more!
This is very healthy and i want to encourage everyone to feel free to share whatever feelings you have
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In fact, I want to apologize to those who not understand my post very well. I graduate a long time ago, and even english language was the primary foreign language in collage, I forgot a lot of things. God help me that programming is not about grammar or to know language perfect :D
Regards,
Vali
Those who want to understand you - WILL !
Those who don't like you passion and desire to make things better - Will not care what language you use
You don't need to apologize how you come across! You did nothing wrong
Be yourself!
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Hi Elad 770 :
In a Forum like this with more than 5000 members, it is obvious certain rules are to be followed and respected.
Some people will agree with your words others will disagree.
I think that is part of the game.
Do you agree ?
BUT :
In French they say : " C' est le ton qui fait la musique ".
Take care, Babette
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Hi Elad 770 :
In a Forum like this with more than 5000 members, it is obvious certain rules are to be followed and respected.
Some people will agree with your words others will disagree.
I think that is part of the game.
Do you agree ?
BUT :
In French they say : " C' est le ton qui fait la musique ".
Take care, Babette
Yes! That is exactly what i'm saying. You don't have to agree with my opinion in order to show minimal respect
The fact that i say something you don't agree with doesn't or should not make me annoying, complaintive or all the adjectives that people give here.
I would say that the vast majority of the members take the difference of opinions very well and those who don't like a certain comment or a post simply don't read it and don't comment on it
simple as that. But some people have the need to shut down the spectrum of opinions and only like "certain" tone. They want "constructive" tone. They want a tone that has "meaning" and "content"
I'm saying: not everyone must dance to this. I personally try to be like that but if someone likes to say: I don't like my Genos (without explaining why) he can definitely do so!
Some people will respond to him by saying - You are complaintive and some will wisely respond by saying: Would you like to share with us specifically what you don't like about it?
It's all about our ability to accept diversity and others. But again 99% of cases people are not even complaining. they only passionate about certain things and sometimes together with language limitations, it might come across combative, but 5000 members? Trust me this is how the game should be played. Simply respect everyone and we should stop commenting on the tone and focus on the content. If a reader feels that a comment or a thread has no proper message or content- Simply ignore it!
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If you have defective components in your keyboard internal memory Kaarlo why has your dealer not had this put right for you and had it replaced. I certainly would insist on this being done if it were my keyboard.
Dear Eileen,
Thanks, very well said. My answer is so long and so incredible I deem it is better to send you a private message. I just want to say here, the YAMAHA importer has treated me with extreme courtesy and been willing to do anything for me.
Cheers
Kaarlo
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Did you have at least 5 minutes a Korg arranger on your hands?
If yes, did you press the "Tap Tempo / Reset" button?
It's simply, every time you will press, in any moment, it will reset the style to the first beat of the first measure. Like you have the style in stand by (when you did not start the melody, and it's time to play) and press the keys. The Sync Stop function is useless in some conditions, even if we activate the options for sync stop window from global setting. This window depends very much for the style you play, and the speed of the style ;)
No, I have not spent any time with a Korg arranger, and don't intend to. I'm happy with Yamaha.
If I understand your "Style reset" function, you can do the same thing by pressing the Stop button, followed by the SyncStart button. This resets the style, and something I do all the time.
So what you are asking for is the ability to assign the function to a button so you have to press only one button, rather than two. Is this correct?
If so, I can see some value in the feature, and it shouldn't be that hard to implement, but I'm not sure I'd ever use it, as I'm so used to the Stop/Start press, and any assignable button would be a lot further away.
Regardless, thanks for the clarification.
Cheers,
Fred
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Dear Fred,
Thanks .You put it very much to the point and explained reasons for your opinion unlike those who just say "if you do not like it, sell it" which is neither helpful nor very nice.
Your waydoes help.
Cheers
Kaarlo
PS
Beeing a Finn I have difficulties spelling English. I always use the Spell Check. But often later there still are mistakes and much worse even words may disappear which alters the meaning. Is that inherent in site systems ? I run into that problem also on other sites like Quora. My on purpose mistake writing "beeing" was not tetected.
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1. No, I have not spent any time with a Korg arranger, and don't intend to. I'm happy with Yamaha.
2. So what you are asking for is the ability to assign the function to a button so you have to press only one button, rather than two. Is this correct?
If so, I can see some value in the feature, and it shouldn't be that hard to implement, but I'm not sure I'd ever use it, as I'm so used to the Stop/Start press, and any assignable button would be a lot further away.
Regardless, thanks for the clarification.
Cheers,
Fred
1. In life you must try anything. I like my Genos too, even if I miss some functions which helped me in my work on other brands. Trying a Korg or Roland arranger could change anyone's vision about arranger. Comparing with other brands, can be a plus for Genos, because you can see what Genos missing that could make your job easier ;)
2. Synchro Stop function was not made for resetting process of style. It was build to be able to play the first "n" beats repeatedly as many times as you want. Between releasing the keys and pressing the key you have a lag, which is hearing and is annoying. If the reset function should have been implemented, that pause/lag would not have been heard...
Please, don't be stubborn and try other brands too.. It will open your vision about which things could be better or not... Some things could be better made on other brands, some things not! But you are able to choose when you know more than one, when you know only one, then it's only your single way of vision...
In my country it is an expression: "You see like horses"! That means you cannot see left or right, you see only in front of you, which is a bad thing!
Regards,
Vali
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If one is very happy and very pleased with his/her ( arranger ) brand - for so many years - why should he/she shoot his/her winning horse, Vali ?
I agree it is always interesting to gather information of the competition.
It might confirm his/her choice has always been the best.😁
All competitive information can be found/heard/seen on the internet and Youtube, IMO.
Babette
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[quote author=valimaties link=topic=50564.msg395953#msg395953 date=1562244326
2. Synchro Stop function was not made for resetting process of style. It was build to be able to play the first "n" beats repeatedly as many times as you want. Between releasing the keys and pressing the key you have a lag, which is hearing and is annoying. If the reset function should have been implemented, that pause/lag would not have been heard...
[/quote]
I never said anything about using SyncStop. I agree it's annoying, although it has its uses in limited circumstances.
To reset the style, I use Stop followed by SyncStart.
Cheers,
Fred
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I never said anything about using SyncStop. I agree it's annoying, although it has its uses in limited circumstances.
To reset the style, I use Stop followed by SyncStart.
Cheers,
Fred
I want to see you doing this in a millisecond ;D ;D ;D
Best regards,
Vali
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To reset the style, I use Stop followed by SyncStart.
Fred has found a workaround and mastered it. Hat's off to Fred for that. I wasn't aware you could do that. Thanks for that, Fred!
On the other hand, Kaarlo mentioned that the Style Reset function existed on his ancient 5700. I've owned a lot of PSR and Tyros keyboards and have never had that function available on any of them. To be fair, I only need it for a handful of songs. I tend to be less annoyed about "things I wish they had included on this keyboard" versus "the really convenient things the older keyboards had that are now removed." This modern-day trend of removing things that worked so well on older models is very disturbing. Of course, there are some features that should be discontinued because they are no longer used by anyone and have been replaced with far better technology. But keep the things that worked well. Just don't toss them aside so you claim to management that you created something "new and improved."
The Genos is a splendid piece of work, but if the Style Reset button was present on a dinosaur and worked well, why was it removed in the first place?
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I want to see you doing this in a millisecond ;D ;D ;D
Best regards,
Vali
Sigh.
Next time, just let us know you’re not interested in solutions, that you only want to complain.
It will save me a lot of time.
Cheers,
Fred
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Fred, I tried your Stop button solution on Pretty Woman and Song Sung Blue. Both tunes have a 6/4 (or 4/4 + 2/4) bar at the end of a phrase. It took me about one minute to master the technique for re-triggering the 4/4 count for the next phrase. I turn the Stop button on and off on an as-needed basis. It works! Probably less streamlined than a dedicated button but with a little practice...
Thanks again :).
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Sigh.
Next time, just let us know you’re not interested in solutions, that you only want to complain.
It will save me a lot of time.
Cheers,
Fred
It is not a solution! Demonstrate it in live playing, because I don't understand how do you retrigger the style to first beat in any moment without any lag or to hear the change!
It seems from your comment that you are a quite nervous, and I don't understand why, as long as I tell you you cannot do this and you did not demonstrate it can be done with a minimum effort!
Example: you have a 4/4 measure in a style. Your singer, (you don't know why), will start playing the verse from third beat instead of first one. How do you retrigger to the first beat using your technique?!
Fred, I tried your Stop button solution on Pretty Woman and Song Sung Blue. Both tunes have a 6/4 (or 4/4 + 2/4) bar at the end of a phrase. It took me about one minute to master the technique for re-triggering the 4/4 count for the next phrase. I turn the Stop button on and off on an as-needed basis. It works! Probably less streamlined than a dedicated button but with a little practice...
Thanks again :).
Demonstrate with a video! I don't believe you can do it without a pause between stop and start!
Regards,
Vali
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Hi Vali,
I can do it without most of the lag but you do need an impeccable sense of timing. I also admit that I don't get it perfect all the time. I certainly wouldn't record using this technique, but when playing a gig full of noisy people, it would work well enough.
As mentioned, it's not as perfect a solution as having a dedicated button that re-retriggers back to Beat 1 but it's close.
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Hi
I bet you can make a lot of new sounds by layering in YEM
I have not tried that yet
All the nbest
john :)
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Hi Eileen, and other who enjoy this keyboard.
I did not say I not enjoy it, or I don't make gigs with it, as it is! I do, and I have a lot of gigs, believe me.
But, in the world there are people who are gratefully with what God give them (I am too), and those people who, above the others, wants more in life! I don't want to stop here! I don't want to think "that's it"! WHY?! Some of us are advanced users/players of this keyboard and other ones, pianos, even other instruments... Why we have only to gratefully only with this if we now there is more potential, but in the fact, the things which bothers us are not solved in a year and a half from the launch of it?!
I (and others), we know you are pleased, you enjoy it. Very well ! Enjoy it, but let us speak about problems there are in this keyboard, that Yamaha see and solve those problems! I told it in the past and I tell now again: if someone's problem exists and he/she encountered it, that does not mean this has to be solved with a workaround thing! It must be working as it has to be!
I, personally, don't care why some of you does not recognize that this (wonderful, yes) keyboard has glitches and bugs. Maybe, you, how you play, and how do you highly use this keyboard, you don't encounter problems. It's very ok, sing and play a lot as you play.
We, others, which encounter problems, we want to tell about them, to be known, and to complain, because we expect on a TOTL arranger to work at least without operating problems, all controls to work fine. I expect for Style Reset function till 1.20 version has come. I tough it will be in 1.20. After that I tough it will be in 1.30, now in 1.40. They don't care about it, because of you, those which are negate the utility of new functions. You post every time "it's not needed" that, and that, and that! Why those functions are bad in the keyboard? What bothers you so much the presence of some new functions?! Why don't you align with other users which care about Yamaha keyboards and wants more?
I think it is not unity from you, guys! Yes, I don't use midi files, but I did not say never that is a bul...s.. the presence of that player in keyboards. Let it be, if someone use it, let it be there, I don't care who use it and who not!
Please, be more kind with the people who want more things, or want some functions to be repaired (like registration bank). If someone told about a problem, before saying it is not a problem, test on your keyboard the given information, and if it is happening to you too, that means it is a problem. Yes, maybe not for you, but for other might be! So, I encourage the unity, not for "let it be as it is" !
Best regards, and I hope some day all of you will think as it might to be, for others too, not only for you!
Vali
God is great , because he gives us a free Organ ;D well Half of us :) ::)
All the best
John :)
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Hi Vali,
I can do it without most of the lag but you do need an impeccable sense of timing. I also admit that I don't get it perfect all the time. I certainly wouldn't record using this technique, but when playing a gig full of noisy people, it would work well enough.
As mentioned, it's not as perfect a solution as having a dedicated button that re-retriggers back to Beat 1 but it's close.
Lee, I appreciate your comment, as Fred also (but I don't know why he is such nervous :) )
BTW, I did some tricks for resetting the measure by using shyncro stop button, and pressing the keys on beat (one or two times, depending on the beat I start resetting the style manually, using this technique). It is very hard to do it on a style on 198->203 tempo beat ;)
But really, with a reset function (think about it) you can also make some "mixing" style as a DJ (something like Sty Rtg function from knobs).
'Till I have a demonstration that it can be done with minimum effort using your workaround, I now there is not a real solution, and a good solution one.
Sorry, but you must convince me!
Fred, be more calm - show me how you do it, and I will believe it can be done and I'm the fool which cannot do it :D !
Regards,
Vali
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Expectations, are never a good thing, fallen for that to many times...
However there is a differnce between epecting and wishing..
Personally i am more a wishfull thinker..
I for long have found work arounds for the things i wished for in the Genos..
Mostly due to my modx8, but also by some other expansions (modules and ipad)
I am quite happy where my setup is now..
And i am still severely happy with my genos..
I recon the upgrade was quite small, but a step forward.
And every step is a step..
My biggest problem currently is time management..
Made a big promotion at work, but getting ito my job sucks most my time
I barely have time to play late at nights..
But things should become better after summer..
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C'mon guys, it's just a matter of timing, and some folks can master Fred's technique in a matter of minutes, while some will never be able to master it. Songs with those kind of breaks have been around for a long time and for as long as they have been around, keyboard players have been able to perform that break with a fair degree of accuracy if they take the time to practice it.
Good luck,
Gary
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Maybe I am missing something regarding what you are trying to achieve, but why is it necessary to use both the Stop button and then Sync Start?
When you press Sync Start (or trigger it from a pedal) the style stops anyway, so pressing Stop first seems to do nothing other than add an extra step, making the timing more difficult.
Whether you press Stop first or just Sync Start, the style only restarts when you trigger a chord.
Whichever way you do it, it is going to be much more difficult to get a good result with fast tempos compared to typical 'crooning' songs.
Regards
Ian
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Hi
I play the Byrds Turn turn turn. Highlight Sync Start, play the intro yourself without beats and then go for the sync start all is great once you lay your hand on the first chord off you go, the same in the middle wait for the fill to end with a cymbol and press sync start, play the first little bit and go for the chord again and off you go . no lag. All you have to do is get your timing right or all will go ***((()%%$£"! :-[ :-\ :) :o ??? :P :-[ up!! :o
all the best
John
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One thing that definitely needs fixing on the Genos is an "update code" for the Live Control knobs and faders. It IS possible to fix this. There have been many complaints about how the Volume or other parameters "jump" when adjusting Live Control parameters rather than a smooth adjustment starting from the current setting... which should be expected from a $3000 keyboard. It should even be expected from mid-priced keyboards like the S970 and S975.
There has been previous discussions about "encoder" knobs verses faders. Yamaha can fix this current poor implementation of how the knobs and faders function/respond. It's not rocket science... just implementing good basic computer code. They could just borrow the code from the Motif. I believe that particular fix would make everyone happy, even those who say it's not a big deal... home players and gigging musicians alike.
NOTE: This function was included on the Peavey PC1600x hardware controller in the late 1990s. If I adjust the volume for an external sound module from the Mixing Console on the keyboard, then I can adjust the volume further using the Peavey faders... with a smooth transition (no jumps up or down). If the Peavey programmer could figure it out, then Yamaha can figure it out too.
;)
Joe H
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Agreed, Ian. I think in Fred's first post on this subject, he meant that the Sync button must be used to start the style - not the Start/Stop button. After the style is started using the Sync button, the Sync function stays on, and then you can engage the Stop button when needed.
Gary is 100 percent correct. Some of us can time it very well while others may need to work hard at getting the feel of it. Once you get it to work, it's a wonderful tool. For years, my music buddy and I have been playing Pretty Woman and letting that one bar play out a full four beats. Even the audience sings along like the original. Kind of embarrassing to throw them a curve ball ;D.
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I don't know why some people bothers with some new function, even if there is a workaround?!
I can't understand ;D ;D ;D
Ok... Let it as it is, I see that I cannot change the workaround guys :D
My thought are you live in a workaround world, it's like you eat soup with fork, because after a time it's surely that you will finish it, what matter that spoon was invented?! :))))))))))
Regards,
Vali
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One thing that definitely needs fixing on the Genos is an "update code" for the Live Control knobs and faders. It IS possible to fix this. There have been many complaints about how the Volume or other parameters "jump" when adjusting Live Control parameters rather than a smooth adjustment starting from the current setting... which should be expected from a $3000 keyboard. It should even be expected from mid-priced keyboards like the S970 and S975.
There has been previous discussions about "encoder" knobs verses faders. Yamaha can fix this current poor implementation of how the knobs and faders function/respond. It's not rocket science... just implementing good basic computer code. They could just barrow the code from the Motif. I believe that particular fix would make everyone happy, even those who say it's not a big deal... home players and gigging musicians alike.
NOTE: This function was included on the Peavey PC1600x hardware controller in the late 1990s. If I adjust the volume for an external sound module from the Mixing Console on the keyboard, then I can adjust the volume further using the Peavey faders... with a smooth transition (no jumps up or down). If the Peavey programmer could figure it out, then Yamaha can figure it out too.
;)
Joe H
This is definately one of the things that becomes an irritator of some kind, when you are used to better. In the modx, you can choose from 3 different behaviour models for knobs and sliders.
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Hey, why not just use a song specific style, which is what I have been doing for years for Pretty Woman and several other songs of this ilk.
Now, in order to use the attached style, you will need to learn how to sing the song's end in time with the style's ending, which is exact for the song. Works for me every time. :)
Enjoy,
Gary 8)
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Yes, that works too Gary! Thanks for the style!!
Vali - I love your analogy of eating soup with a fork. It can be done but why bother when you own a spoon? Trouble is we don't have the spoon yet. If Yamaha would provide a spoon, I'm sure even Fred would rather use it than the fork :).
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Vali,
When a device is missing a feature, you have to use a workaround. You’re not condoning the fact the feature is missing. You’re just doing what you have to do.
To reset to beat 1 while a style is playing, simply press the SyncStart button.
Regarding handling a 2/4 bar, the best way is to incorporate a 2/4 fill into the style. I’m almost useless at modifying styles, but even I can create a 2/4 fill using Jorgen's software.
By the way, I don’t think "nervous" was the translation, but if it was, I’m not.
Cheers,
Fred
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Hi Fred, thanks for your reply and your explanations.
Yes, using SyncStart button can be a workaround.
But really, I would have to "implement" other things in ones mentality: ONLY WE users can make Yamaha do more things for us, free, by upgrading firmware of arrangers, by telling them our ideas. But if we starts from the beginning by answering: "Why do we need a function if we already this can be done by workaround?!", that will make Yamaha to think that if there are users which are happy with workarounds, it's a good thing, and they will not implement ever new functions...
So, that I came and tell you to be unity, when a new function is in demand, that will make our job to be made more easily ;)
Best regards,
Vali
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Hi Fred, thanks for your reply and your explanations.
Yes, using SyncStart button can be a workaround.
But really, I would have to "implement" other things in ones mentality: ONLY WE users can make Yamaha do more things for us, free, by upgrading firmware of arrangers, by telling them our ideas. But if we starts from the beginning by answering: "Why do we need a function if we already this can be done by workaround?!", that will make Yamaha to think that if there are users which are happy with workarounds, it's a good thing, and they will not implement ever new functions...
So, that I came and tell you to be unity, when a new function is in demand, that will make our job to be made more easily ;)
I don’t think anyone is happy with a workaround. Where did you get that impression? But when a feature is missing, workarounds are all you have, and they’re important to share.
Regarding how to get Yamaha to implement new features, you and I will just have to agree to disagree on the best way. I personally don’t think endless complaining works well.
Cheers,
Fred
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I personally don’t think endless complaining works well.
I think is our generation of 20-30 to complains about things that don't work as we expect.
Playing on different arrangers I took what is good from one and from other. In this century of a big raising technology from a day to another, I personally want that an electronic device to make my job easier, not to hinder it...
So, I think, me and others will complain as long as I live, maybe I will got my sunshine one day ;D !
Cheers
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Then you are going to spend your life in miserable complaining because nothing is ever perfect. And going on and on about very small irritations and minor issues quickly becomes tiresome to other people.
Mike
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As one of the older guys on this forum, my life experience has taught me a few things about complaining:
Complaining about things you wish your particular device had
Maybe such requests can be honored some day, but complaining about them not being there just irritates some users.
Complaining about things that don't work right
These are defects and should be looked after by the company concerned. Users have every right to complain until something is done about the problem. If you don't like to hear about it, read other posts. I think Yamaha keeps most things under control when it comes to defects.
Your device doesn't work as expected
You bought something and it doesn't do what you expected it to do. I guess that is under the category of "buyer beware." With such an enormous purchase, you have every right to sit in a music store for days (if necessary) to make sure the floor model does everything you need. If not, move on to another make. I believe most of us have moved from the Tyros(x) to Genos. We have a preconceived idea of how the Genos should work. I'm fortunate to deal with a large music store chain who will order me any product I want, pay for it, take it home and use it for 30 days. If I don't like it, bring it back.
There are some minor annoyances with the Genos that I wish Yamaha would fix, but I'm very happy with my new purchase. It's already been a year :)!
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I read all these opinions and hopes about the 1.40 upgrade, and say to myself, wow didn't realize the Genos
was that limited and lacking so much. I own the Genos, and yes nothing is perfect, but after reading all these
wishes and yes, complaints, don't know how anyone can enjoy what they already have. But, we live in a world of
expecting perfection, so for those in that camp, I feel sorry for you. Even if Yamaha would upgrade to your Genos
to your desire, you would after a few day still feel empty. Like something is always lacking. My 2 cents worth is, enjoy this
awesome keyboard, and relax.
ill second that Mike 2 I love it to bits it is a fantastic Keyboard
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Ditto!
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I have a different perspective on this topic.
Everyone has different technical and musical skills. So what satisfies one person, doesn't necessarily satisfy the next person. No one uses all the features available on your arrangers. Nor do we all use the keyboard in the same way. Yamaha has to make a one-size-fits-all instrument for the mass market.
We have had this discussion so many times. Making keyboards is different than making cars... with many options you can special order.
Yamaha gets its ideas from this forum and other sources and responds to the market in a cost effective way. But that doesn't mean what some "power users" want is illegitimate, they just expect more based on their personal skills, knowledge and experience.
Joe H
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Hi Joe H :
I really understand what you mean, Joe.
I wonder if " Power Users " go for an arranger keyboard
only ? Do they not want more than an arranger keyboard can offer them ?
A synth and/or a DAW might be a better, extra tool or option to make their dreams come true.
They want to make " their own perfect OMB productions ".
IMHO.
Most arranger keyboard owners here are " Home Players ".
( 90% of our members somebody said here, recently ).
They are looking for the best CD sound, a plug-and-play, a reliable, a nice and easy " all-in-one " instrument.
For these people making music is a hobby not a
( semi )profession.
Hobby means for them " play, sing, have fun and ... relax ".
An arranger became a modern family instrument like an acoustic piano in the past, I guess.
" Home Players " might be Yamaha's main target group of favourite customers, who knows ?😉
Best wishes,
Babette
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Not a bad thing to ask for new features but doing it all the time and claiming that a model is bad or doesn't worth it's money because it doesn't have features that someone is asking for,although it could,sometimes make other users wonder why the Genos is not one of the best of it's kind and deserves such a bad criticism?
From my point of view there is never going to be a GenosvoicesPax4liveTyros5colourPhantomsoundsMonta gefeature based keyboard
for lots of reasons.
Babette if you want to make the most extraordinary composition or cover or remix or whatever in a DAW, all you need is a mouse and the pc's keyboard.
Everything else (the notes,the sounds,the effects) is in your DAW.
A cheap midi keyboard or an expensive synthesizer is just optional to save you some time.
Some keyboardists feel that Yamaha overestimated and overpriced the Genos.
But let me ask you one thing?
After watching the video demonstration of Genos, after playing with it in a music store, after reading it's manual with it's "old" and "new" features you still have decided to buy it for some reasons.
Most of you have had already a Tyros or a PSR,so to understand what Genos can do or if it sounds better or not or whatever, should be pretty obvious to you.
So, better not to forget what those reasons were and not to forget that you had just 3 top models to choose from.
None of them had or has and unfortunately will never have all the features that we want.... :(
Yamaha on the other hand must provide to Genos users better support (constant updates with improvements and new features? new features for live playing were those are necessary to be added? free packs? free styles? free midis?) as long as the Genos had,still has and will always have things that should be working correctly.(Is there a software without some "bad" digits of 0 and 1???? No Way!!!)
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I don't think there will ever be a keyboard that suits everyone's needs and that is why
a lot of people have more than one make keyboard.There are a lot of home players with Genos but also a lot of these do go out entertaining in care homes etc. As with anything you have to really explore exactly what your Genos will do and for me it is everything a sit and play entertainer wants to give a good performance and feel good about it. You make the keyboard what you want it to be.
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Good point, Eileen!
I think that true music producers use the Montage for their work, but it is a very complex beast. You just don't unpack it, set it up, and start producing tunes. The learning curve is huge!
On the other hand, we unpack the Genos and if you have even spent a few hours on a PSR or Tyros, you can have the Genos doing hoops and loops in five minutes! The Genos sounds are amazing, and the book even says you can record MIDI and audio!!! Whoo-hoo!! Problem: we associate the "instant gratification of being able to sit down and play a song right out of the box" with MIDI and audio recording. Well, it's not that simple. All of a sudden the learning curve got really steep. Next comes, "The Genos won't do what I want it to. It sounds as good as a Montage. What gives??"
So, I agree with those members who believe that the ultimate setup is to have a few different keyboards for different purposes. Imagine if Yamaha did achieve the keyboard that does it all? It would cost $100,000. And then, where would they go from "up?"
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Imagine if Yamaha did achieve the keyboard that does it all? It would cost $100,000. And then, where would they go from "up?"
Never mind cost - it would be overkill and much too complicated for the vast majority of current buyers. In fact the Genos may already be getting close to that point.
You don’t need a complicated keyboard with lots of bells and whistles to play great music or do gigs either. Just the right features, good sound and ease of use. There is a lot of demand for features from power users but they are a tiny minority. And power user does not necessarily = good player.
Mike
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Hi Joe H :
I really understand what you mean, Joe.
I wonder if " Power Users " go for an arranger keyboard
only ? Do they not want more than an arranger keyboard can offer them ?...
What I mean by power users is that someone is technical enough to exploit their instrument fully and make use of most or all of its features. Whether that be a grande piano, a synthesizer, an arranger, the MIDI format, or a DAW.
Yamaha has published many Power User Guides over the years for those who want to be creative and not just plug and play.
Joe H
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As is said a good musician can make the smallest and cheapest keyboard sound great. With Genos we can make what we hear sound better and that makes us want to be better players.
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I find it ironic that those who use synths and DAWs consider an arranger keyboard inferior to their gear, claiming that a pro musician would never use an arranger on stage. These are the same folks that spend endless hours working on each and every sound to make their instrument sound almost as good as any arranger right out of the box. :)
All the best,
Gary 8)
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Yamaha has published many Power User Guides over the years for those who want to be creative and not just plug and play.
Is there one for the Genos?
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Hi
yeah!!
let us know when there is one for the Genos!! :P
With all those effects and layering new sounds in Yem ,drum programming etc a power guide would be useful.
Explaining how to integrate with Cubase for the non techies. So much Yamaha could do and make money on selling book guides
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Unfortunately, people no longer read! And that's a fact, at least read things that are printed on paper. Most of their information is garnered from Internet sources such as You Tube, Face Book, etc... I still have a couple thousand books here at home, but most of my reading these days is done on my tablet, mainly because it's a lot easier to hold than a 600-page book.
So, for you relatively young folks, the best thing for you would be a You Tub video of how to accomplish these things, but I'm to the point where I'm just too damned old to provide it for you, and for all my efforts, no one would be willing to pay the price of labor and production. So, if Yamaha doesn't come out with something to meet your specific needs, I guess your best option is to sit down at the keyboard, turn it on and begin exploring. Who knows, you might even turn on your video camera and teach others how to do this while you learn as well. Over the years, I found that the most fun I had with my arranger keyboards, other than being an OMB entertainer, was exploring the inner workings and discovering all the wonderful things I could do with this amazing instrument.
Good luck,
Gary 8)
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Hi Gary :
I like your splendid idea members should make instruction video's and upload them here to help others out !👍
Nowadays it is so simple to make a video. 🐵
It has not to be a Hollywood production. 😻
Thanks, Gary !
Best wishes, Babette
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After starting out with my 2 cents worth, this subject has grown tremendously.
If I were to ask this forum a hypothetical question, like how many of you would think a Genos 2 would solve all your wishful needs, what would the answer be? Of course this is all hypothetical, but could be also telling. Because when the next Genos comes out, what will be missing in that one?
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Hi Mike2 :
When a new arranger keyboard is in the air,
( long ) wish lists might always be seen here, as usual.
It became almost a tradition. See the past.
For the time being it looks like the Genos successor will not come ( so ) soon.
IMHO other Genos updates might have Yamaha's priority. Not a Genos2.
Babette
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"By the way, I don’t think "nervous" was the translation, but if it was, I’m not."
I for one did not get the impression you were, and even in case you had been, are we discussing what people were when posting ? As a fact available translation from Finnish more often than not gives a very misleading wording. I tend to believe that is the case with Rumanian. The word nervous as we say in Finnish "oli päin prinkkalaa." No good translation found ;) To beat about the bush does translate ok into German, but Finnish and Swedish translations are nonsense.
Cheers
Kaarlo
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Not expecting a Genos 2 for at least two years. Let us enjoy the one we have at the moment before more requests appear.
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I couldn't agree with you more Eileen. Even if the Genos 2 comes out in 2 years, we will have missed some if not much of what the Genos 1 had to offer. How will anyone handle the Genos 2? My answer is the same as the Genos 1. So I say, just relax, and enjoy the moment, for that is all we have.
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Well John,
Time will Tell but we must be grateful for what we have and enjoy life while we can.
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Hi Eileen
i am having a bad week!! :P
Firstly i left my camcorder at the Battle of the Proms at Blenhiem Palace.
Secondly i have downloaded 150 gig of sounds for Sampletank 4Max vst. Also took ages unzipping the files and then i go and delete the wrong folder >:(
About a days worth of boring downloading gone up in an instant.
I wonder what the thied thing will be!! ::)
Musn't Grumble" aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaGGGGHHH!! ;D "Great Expectations"!! :P
All the Best
John :)
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It's really sad what's happened with this thread. It's gone into a tail-spin nose-dive... complaining about the complaining. The Moderators should have locked this thread... but instead they are participating in it. What's happened to this Forum, it used to be about helping each other learn about how to use their keyboards.
:( :( :( :( :(
:'(
Joe H
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I agree Joe,
The moderators here do not seem to mind what is posted and that at least four or five different threads have started up on the 1.40 update. They of course should have all been put into one. I think people now are getting more and more confused and some requests are getting silly and some quite insulting to Yamaha and its users that are quite happy with there keyboards but are made to feel that they are old and only home players anyway.
I do believe that all these add on's Daws and computer generating music programmes should have a separate section where they can discus all the technical jargon so that those of us who only use our keyboards can go back to helping one an other get the best from them.
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As moderators, we do our level best to just keep things civil, while still maintaining the original intent of the forum, which is to assist Yamaha arranger keyboard players and owners to the best of our abilities.
We do not try to control the content of any thread, even when it strays left or south just as long as it remains civil and individuals do not attempt to insult or slander other members, or bring politics or religion into the fray. There is a complete list of forum guidelines with a link to them on the home page where members can get a good idea on what is and what is not allowed.
All the best,
Gary 8)
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Some of these posts are about venting frustrations too. And let's face it - we may see no way to do a certain thing on the Genos, but then someone comes up with a workaround. That's productive.
We may go way off topic, but even when we've never met each other in person, save for a few exceptions, it's no different than if we were sitting in a coffee shop talking about things we wish we could do with our Genos keyboards. So, we're not too far off track.
I agree - there may need to be a separate section for "Cubase + Genos." That topic just bores the daylights out of the people who just love to sit and play :).
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Hi all.
This is my last post on this forum.
Seems some old users and moderators are NOT pleased with the idea of modernization and upgrading of this keyboard, and in my opinion, upgrading every electronic device is almost 50-75% suggestions and (yes) complaining of users! If this not happening, nothing will be made!
For this reason, I think is not my place here.
I want to say nothing else more. :-X
Good luck and best regards,
Vali
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Bad decision👎, Vali, but you are the decision maker : to stay or not to stay, that's not the question but your own decision.
Anyway ...
We will miss your critical but useful comments.🎩
Take care, Babette
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Folks, folks, it's only the crummy Internet, not real life. :)
Wishing everyone peace -- pj
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Vali, if someone takes a look at the "Genos General" board and read just the titles of the threads, the only thing he should think is that this keyboard "It just doesn't work!"
The new version doesn't work and it has changed things on the keyboard which shouldn't have been changed like styles,regs etc (this isn't true of course), other threads about how bad the Genos sounds (is it?), how many functions Tyros or Psr S have and Genos hasn't (what to answer to that?), how many functions Yamaha keyboard's don't have in general (how many functions and "stuff" other brands don't have really?),how bad the new styles and sounds are compare to older models (are we serious now?) and how bad and plastic the black colour is (no comments).
These are just few examples that I can remember right now that make some people wonder: "What the ****....Do I own another kind of Genos or something?"
It isn't that there is someone that doesn't want extra features.If he doesn't use a new feature,why should he mind if it is somewhere in the menu so those who want it, they can use it?
I don't think the "old" members are mad about suggestions but for the constant negative comments and threads again and again.
With other models people are asking for help to see if and how they can do some stuff with their keyboards.
In Genos' boards on the other hand, sometimes you feel like this machine is totally useless or something.
Vali,I believe that your suggestions for live playing are useful to us,as useful is your technical knowledge about keyboards and software in general.
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As Gary says, moderators try to allow conversations to run even if they ramble, and do not step over our guidelines. However, I have removed one post on this thread because it was headed with a very blatant statement on a political matter completely unrelated to anything in this topic. I am sure the person concerned knows what this is and I ask them not to do this again.
Mike
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Hi
The title of this thread is Expectations.
This means there will be a lot of complaints .
Personally i find nothing wrong with the Genos and if people moan, they are entitled to.
Also a little light heartedness is a good thing and good old banter . I find also nothing wrong with that.
The thing is communication and a little fun is better than being serious. It makes the world go round.
Get into the Genos and open up a great tool.
It will keep people off mobile phones!! ;D Hopefully.
All the best
John :)
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Guys, Please
I simply don't understand what is the Drama
Joe H , EileenL , Vali
Everything is Ok! No need to leave the forum or cry about everything.
I actually think the moderators are doing excellent work by allowing everyone to express themselves the way they feel
To date , i haven't come across ONE word or thread or topic that was so inappropriate and this is a big thumbs up to everyone here.
i think Gary put it best: Civil - That is all! Threads might take different turns and spins especially when they are about an expected update to their keyboards and yes! people will complain
about whatever they want...... Just relax everyone. Those who feel they don't like the way a thread evolves, simply ignore it or open a new one!
the administrators are so nice and liberal about it.
I like members like Vali and others who complain. While I'm happy with my Genos these members fuel the fire that we call progress and modernization. Never had issue with any of the posts that are up.
Even the post that was removed, i would pass personally. The best way to erase a post or a thread in a free society is to ignore it and let it die on its own but i understand why they did it.
This should not be taken personally and everybody should just be happy.
there were few comments about: this forum used to be about helping ......etc.... (to suggest it's not the case anymore) - i WOULD LIKE TO SAY : PLEASE STOP WITH THIS CRAZINESS
This forum is by far the most supportive and helpful resource for any Yamaha user! Every thread that is put up get responses with help and resources and i simply don't
understand why people are not seeing that. almost as if this is a rich people problem where this forum is so good that people don't have anything better to do and complain about it
The organizers of this forum want to have and open discussion to include ALL OPINIONS and views! Some are negative some positive, some always constructive and some always complaintive. and yes ! some posts can only say: i don't like it without providing any constructive solution. So what? People...come on......
Just take it easy..... There are thousands of people here and all have a different opinion and personalities. I personally would like to see everyone express themselves they way they wish
without being shot down and again, i think the moderators are doing a fantastic job to allow us just that, as long as we are being civilized
You know what will be a great idea? I just thought about it: If I win the lottery i will organize an annual meetup of all active forum members. I will fly everyone into a beautiful resort
with their Keyboards! we can meet each other and share experiences! i think this will improve our cohesion and dynamics.
until then, let us all respect, everyone here and i definitely don't want to see members leaving the forum just because others don't like their style
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Guys, Please
I simply don't understand what is the Drama
Joe H , EileenL , Vali
Everything is Ok! No need to leave the forum or cry about everything.
I actually think the moderators are doing excellent work by allowing everyone to express themselves the way they feel
To date , i haven't come across ONE word or thread or topic that was so inappropriate and this is a big thumbs up to everyone here.
i think Gary put it best: Civil - That is all! Threads might take different turns and spins especially when they are about an expected update to their keyboards and yes! people will complain
about whatever they want...... Just relax everyone. Those who feel they don't like the way a thread evolves, simply ignore it or open a new one!
the administrators are so nice and liberal about it.
I like members like Vali and others who complain. While I'm happy with my Genos these members fuel the fire that we call progress and modernization. Never had issue with any of the posts that are up.
Even the post that was removed, i would pass personally. The best way to erase a post or a thread in a free society is to ignore it and let it die on its own but i understand why they did it.
This should not be taken personally and everybody should just be happy.
there were few comments about: this forum used to be about helping ......etc.... (to suggest it's not the case anymore) - i WOULD LIKE TO SAY : PLEASE STOP WITH THIS CRAZINESS
This forum is by far the most supportive and helpful resource for any Yamaha user! Every thread that is put up get responses with help and resources and i simply don't
understand why people are not seeing that. almost as if this is a rich people problem where this forum is so good that people don't have anything better to do and complain about it
The organizers of this forum want to have and open discussion to include ALL OPINIONS and views! Some are negative some positive, some always constructive and some always complaintive. and yes ! some posts can only say: i don't like it without providing any constructive solution. So what? People...come on......
Just take it easy..... There are thousands of people here and all have a different opinion and personalities. I personally would like to see everyone express themselves they way they wish
without being shot down and again, i think the moderators are doing a fantastic job to allow us just that, as long as we are being civilized
You know what will be a great idea? I just thought about it: If I win the lottery i will organize an annual meetup of all active forum members. I will fly everyone into a beautiful resort
with their Keyboards! we can meet each other and share experiences! i think this will improve our cohesion and dynamics.
until then, let us all respect, everyone here and i definitely don't want to see members leaving the forum just because others don't like their style
Here here!! I totally agree
All the best
John :)
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I have to with you Panos,
I have never seen such negativity on Genos on any other forum. As you say other sections receive Requests for information on how they can produce certain effects or alter styles to suit or song creating. They are not spending all there time pulling there keyboards to pieces or saying this or that should be on it. I would imagine that Yamaha have a good laugh at some of the threads.
When Tyros 5 came out everyone slated the piano but it did not last as long as the Genos threads have.
God help us when Genos 2 comes out.
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Vali, please rejoin the forum. Your input over the years has been most valuable. There have only been one or two people who should leave the forum in the time I've been a member and they're gone. You don't qualify :)!
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Is there one for the Genos?
I don't think Yamaha has ever or will ever produce a Power User Guide for the arranger. Why? Because up until the S970 and Genos, there was no need, especially with this Forum, which Yamaha monitors. So the Forum takes the place of the Power Users Guide. (which is better than any document Yamaha would produce on its own). As the arranger becomes more sophisticated and complex, Yamaha just might see the need for such a document or begin to actively participating in this forum or creating their own as they have with their synth line.
Personally I think there is already a need for Yamaha to participate in this forum... it would very helpful. The Genos is a big step up for a Yamaha arranger. It has set a new standard... but more features and sophistication will come with future models because the younger generation wants more from an arranger keyboard. They grew up on DAWs so the arranger is inferior to computer software.
Think about it; if you have been driving a Lincoln from the start... would you want to drive a low-end compact economy car?
;D
Joe H
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Hi Joe :
It is very hard to believe Yamaha will EVER participate in any private forum.
Being a commercial worldwide, international, private company with different divisions and product groups, Yamaha might have other priorities, I guess.
Yamaha have their own local help desks and dealers where all endusers are very welcome to be helped out.
Babette
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Personally I think there is already a need for Yamaha to participate in this forum... it would very helpful.
Agreed, Joe. For years, Bad Mister has "lived" on the Motif and now Montage forums. Back when the Motif first came out, it was revolutionary. There was an enormous gap between the PSR series and it. With the Genos, that gap is closing very fast. There may come a time where another "Bad Mister" chimes in once in a while to help with the advanced features of the Genos. I wonder how many heavy-weight Montage users also own a Genos, as another go-to instrument in their toolbox. Probably not that many, but it would be fun to chat with them about recording, effects, and other advanced level stuff. Perhaps they could chime in here once in a while :).
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Hi
Better guides to integration with Cubase .
it took me quite some time getting into the basics.
Thankfully there are helpful people on this forum.
Things like using wave files with styles, using Phrazor and deeper guides into Yem constructing sound layers etc. More about using the supplied effects.what to do and not what to do enhancing sounds.
All we get is how to store files and push a few buttons which we can read in the manual
All the fun of the fair!! ;D
all the best
john :)
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Hi
Better guides to integration with Cubase .
it took me quite some time getting into the basics.
Thankfully there are helpful people on this forum.
Things like using wave files with styles, using Phrazor and deeper guides into Yem constructing sound layers etc. More about using the supplied effects.what to do and not what to do enhancing sounds.
All we get is how to store files and push a few buttons which we can read in the manual
All the fun of the fair!! ;D
all the best
john :)
i do know all these kind of things, but i have a feeling after reading lot's of posts the last week over here that this isn't really the place to discuss those things. People made it very clear in this thread. These kind of discussions would be quite technical, boring and they aren't interested in that.
In my opinion the genos has stepped up the game in the technical field. I was wondered too that yamaha gives all kind of files on their site (for instance for cubase) but they don't explain how to do it. I can imagine that 99 percent of the genos users has no idea of how to set such things up or how to expand their sound libraries theirself or add their own multipads which were generated in cubase. It's not hard at all but you just need to know which tricks you need to do.
You can get a lot more out of the genos than you would expect on first sight, when you know your way around the technical stuff and doesn't treat the genos as a tyros 6, but more as a keyboard that supports the features that nowadays are quite common in the world (like touch screens, daw integration, wireless recording which works fantastically on a genos, enhancing the genos with midi loop recording on the fly through an ipad, etc.)
But it is indeed technical and if only one or two people are interested in this then it's simply not worth the time to create youtube tutorials for how to do this.
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I’d be very interested to have help/tutorials on Cubase/Genos integration and I know other people on the forum have this interest.
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Agreed, Joe. For years, Bad Mister has "lived" on the Motif and now Montage forums...
..."Bad Mister" chimes in once in a while to help with the advanced features of the Genos...
FYI... It was Phil (Bad Mister) who insulted me when I ask for help on his forum on how to integrate the arranger with the Motif.
He didn't actually say it, but his comments suggested the arranger (and I) were second class to the synth and synth owners.
I think his ego gets in the way sometimes.
BTW... it was Phil who wrote most or all of the Power Users Guides in the past.
Joe H
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I believe things have changed Joe from that point of view.
First class midi keyboard owners,second class synthesizer owners and third class arranger keyboard owners :)
I 've read somewhere Gary saying that sometimes people are spending countless hours for creating sounds that are almost as good as Yamaha's.
Thinking about it, I will say that it's been more than 30+ years since the last time I've heard a real NEW sound from a synthesizer or whatever machine or computers or anything else.
And yet they still consider to be more "pro" instruments than an arranger keyboard.
A rhetorical question from a non musician (I am not looking for an answer of course ;)):
"Why exactly?"
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... Thinking about it, I will say that it's been more than 30+ years since the last time I've heard a real NEW sound from a synthesizer or whatever machine or computers or anything else...
The exception is with arranger keyboards that have expansion capabilities. Now we can buy packs like EDM or create packs from SF2 samples that sound like a 1970s synthesizer.
8)
Joe H
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Sorry to hear about that, Joe. It's so sad when one who has talent lets ego get in the way.