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Tyros Keyboards (5 Boards) => Tyros 4 (SFF2) => Topic started by: sugarplumsss on February 17, 2019, 09:43:48 PM

Title: Old Windows 7 question
Post by: sugarplumsss on February 17, 2019, 09:43:48 PM
I am planning to finally bite the bullet and purchase whichever apps on a Windows machine , are recommended for MIDI song adjustments.  I am Mac user., and the sole reason I bought the Windows 7 machine was to use for the T4, no other reason.. But I procrastinated!

Just in general terms ( I will hire someone to do this ) how daunting a task is it to upgrade a 5 year old windows 7 laptop to windows 10?  I know just the security updates will be a huge amount of time.
Is an update to this laptop sensible?  Should I but a cheap 10 laptop instead?

Some may say that I do not need to upgrade... but I want to buy at least a few, as yet undetermined apps from Murray, Sorenson, and any other apps that will simplify adjusting MIDI Files.
The issue is avoiding viruses while I install these apps.
Unless I can purchase those portable drives from each of the creators and circumvent exposing the old Window machine to viruses.

I do not mind going through process of upgrading the machine form 7 to 10.

Advice, please.

In another as yet unfinished thread I am going to ask questions about recommended apps for time saving adjustments to MIDI FILES purchased from Yamaha.
Title: Re: Old Windows 7 question
Post by: Roland on February 17, 2019, 10:04:36 PM
Hi there,

I recommend keeping the Windows 7 version on a 5 year old laptop and then install the Windows apps on that machine for as long as you can until you REALLY have to upgrade. At that point, just get a cheap Windows 10 box. The security updates btw. are simple and you don't need someone else to do them for you - unless it's just for convenience :-)

Why keeping Windows 7? Because it is the last really stable and well built Windows version and it will run apps that Windows 10 won't run anymore (older apps).

Viruses: Just don't open email attachments that are not from a trusted source and be careful when browsing the Internet, and DO NOT download stuff that is not from a trusted source either. As long as you stick to that, you will be fine just using the standard Microsoft Security Essentials that comes with Windows 7. If you want more than that, check out AVG - which you might already know as it works for the Mac OS too.

And at last but not at least: After playing with Windows, you will be tickled and pink when login on to your Mac again - hehe :-)

Cheers, Roland

Title: Re: Old Windows 7 question
Post by: Fred Smith on February 17, 2019, 10:07:53 PM
You won't get a virus when you download trusted apps, like Murray's or Jorgen's.

It's the ones you don't trust that you have to avoid.

I agree with Roland. Stick with Win7 on the old laptop.

Buy a new, cheap one only when you need more speed or power.

Title: Re: Old Windows 7 question
Post by: panos on February 17, 2019, 10:13:48 PM
Hi sugar,
Is there a problem downloading the programs you mentioned on windows 7 ?
On my PC in the office I haven't got any problem with any kind of program I use with windows 7.
I haven't updated my PC to windows 10 because I didn't like them and in my home still got windows 8  which were not so successful  as windows 7 but haven't  upgraded them also.
I don't  know if windows 10 is more secure or not but  previous windows were well secured also if you know how not to download programs you don't know and you don't trust..
Title: Re: Old Windows 7 question
Post by: sugarplumsss on February 17, 2019, 10:24:44 PM
Gentle Men
Appreciate the sound voices of experience.

There are supposedly no dumb questions   ;D

So today if I go online with my old win 7
that fact, does not get mt laptop a virus, trojan etc... right?
Title: Re: Old Windows 7 question
Post by: Dick Rector on February 17, 2019, 10:31:47 PM
I had a serious crash and needed a new motherboard, drive etc. Suffer now with windows 10 and hate it. Windows 7 was much easier.
Title: Re: Old Windows 7 question
Post by: Roland on February 17, 2019, 11:07:57 PM
Gentle Men
Appreciate the sound voices of experience.

There are supposedly no dumb questions   ;D

So today if I go online with my old win 7
that fact, does not get mt laptop a virus, trojan etc... right?

No, by just going online your Windows 7 laptop won't catch a cold :-)  Just stay away from questionable web sites - the one your mother would tell you to stay away from  ::)  And if you are not 100% sure that you spell a web site correctly, then Google it first to make sure you get to a site that is not a knock-off that wants information from you!  And this is true regardless of what operating system you use, be this the Mac's OSX, Windows, Chrome or what have you.

Cheers, Roland
Title: Re: Old Windows 7 question
Post by: sugarplumsss on February 17, 2019, 11:12:25 PM
This forum has saved me once again.
Thanks Boys
Title: Re: Old Windows 7 question
Post by: Toril S on February 17, 2019, 11:19:18 PM
I have a five years old Win7 machine. All OK.
I agree with the others, do NOT upgrade the old machine. That is asking for trouble.
I have a Win 10 PC also, and it is faster, but I like the Win7 OS better.
Title: Re: Old Windows 7 question
Post by: tyrosaurus on February 18, 2019, 01:41:14 AM
Microsoft ended so called 'Mainstream Support' for Windows 7 back in January 2015!

Windows 7 is currently on 'Extended Support' from Microsoft.  This means that updates only address essential security issues.  No new 'features' are being added.

However this Extended Support will end for most non corporate users on 14th January 2020, when the OS will be declared 'EOL' (End Of Life) and no further support of any kind will be provided for the OS.

Corporate users can elect to pay for continued security updates for up to three years after the above date, but it will be costly!

For the rest of us, even though MS is going to produce security updates for these 'paying' corporate users, home users will not be able to get them, even if they are willing to pay!  Presumably in doing this, Microsoft are trying to 'intimidate' users into switching to Windows 10!

Therefore continuing to use the OS will be at our own risk if any major security hole is discovered, and let's face it, it is not unknown for this to happen with Microsoft OS, even years after their initial release!

Anti Virus/Malware Protection suites can only do so much, especially when 'zero day' vulnerabilities and exploits arise, and can/do get things wrong, but are better than nothing if you insist on continuing to use the internet with an unsupported OS.

However if you only intend to visit so called 'trusted sites' and use common sense when doing so, you will probably be OK.  Unfortunately hackers seem to be coming up with more and more exploits which make use of security holes in OS or even in chipsets! Furthermore because of the huge number of people still using Windows 7, the end of security updates for most of us will make the OS an attractive 'target' for hackers.

I have just purchased a new laptop with Windows 10 installed and (as expected) I don't like it much. I have tried to make it look as much like Windows 7 as I can.  The first thing that I did was to get rid of the 'live tiles' and other animations, which I find really irritating and distracting.  I have turned off as much of the 'spying' functions and telemetry as I can, in the knowledge that almost certainly,  MS will probably check and turn them back on with each (non optional!) update!  Even with them turned off, I'm sure that a company as unethical as Microsoft is still harvesting plenty of data about me, even though I haven't created an account with them!  Of course, let's face it, I use Google Chrome as my browser and search engine so they will already have most of the information anyway!

However in spite of the above, with the end of W7 support looming, I am going to continue with W10 on the new laptop, leaving W7 on my others for now at least!


Title: Re: Old Windows 7 question
Post by: Tyros5Mad on February 18, 2019, 04:40:14 AM
I can speak with some authority on this subject. I ran my own business building and fixing Windows computers for the 12 years before I retired 4 years ago.

As with many others, I was reluctant to go to Windows 10 because I was very happy with Windows 7 and did not like Windows 8 or 8.1. Windows 7 did everything I wanted to do.

However, when I upgraded my hardware to run my games and my virtual reality headset there was no choice but to get Windows 10.

And, as with everything else, now that I am used to Windows 10, I really would not go back to an earlier version of Windows. There are actually no software programs that I ran on Windows 7, that will not run on my Windows 10 systems (I have two - one for my games and one for office type programs and software development). This includes quite old music software. There are some really old software programs that were written for windows 95 and 98 that will not run on Windows 7 or Windows 10 because they are 16 bit programs and Windows 7 to 10 are strictly 32 and 64 bit.

To address the question from SugarPlum:
The machine you mention is 5 years old so it will not run Windows 10 very well, if it will run it at all. Stay with Windows 7.

If you do want to upgrade get the cheap Windows 10 laptop. I cannot speak to Mac hardware or software because I never supported Mac in my business. It was hard enough keeping up with the Windows world, so spending the time required to become a Mac expert was time I did not have.

Hope that helps a bit.

Regards, Richard
Title: Re: Old Windows 7 question
Post by: sugarplumsss on February 18, 2019, 05:27:59 PM
I cannot get a response when I tap Like on Ian's post!
Title: Re: Old Windows 7 question
Post by: panos on February 18, 2019, 08:02:12 PM
Saying "thanks" sugar is shown so it is OK☺
On windows 8 I have installed a program and shows  the main menus as it were in older windows.(it is called Classic shell)
I don't really mind how each windows version works,I just like to be what is supposed to be: opening windows and not feel like using a smartphone or tablet or I pad etc.
These little machines are nice but to do something really quick it takes a lot of time.
They are just good for reading news,playing games etc when you have to....go (you know where ;D )

Title: Re: Old Windows 7 question
Post by: Joe H on February 19, 2019, 03:47:07 AM
I have a stand-alone Windows 7 MIDI machine that gets used for nothing else.  I dread going to Win 10 for the reasons stated by Ian. 

When end of life comes for Win 7, I won't go on the internet with my MIDI machine, I will use Win 10 or some other currently supported OS machine and copy the downloaded files to a USB drive and carry them over to my MIDI machine.

Joe H
Title: Re: Old Windows 7 question
Post by: Tyros5Mad on February 19, 2019, 04:00:42 AM
lol sound like paranoia to me. Not entirely without grounds but in my experience most people who end up with a compromised PC went to sites where you guys and I probably would not go.

I have fixed thousands of PCs with viruses and other pups (potentially unwanted programs). Ninety percent of them were infected because the users could not be bothered to install anti-virus software or be bothered to update them regularly. Some were so badly infected that the only remedy was to wipe the disk and start again.

The only group of viruses that scared me were the Ransom viruses. These encrypted the files on the hard disk and unless you paid a lot of money you could not get them back.

The rules to stay safe are pretty simple:
1. Install an anti-virus program (I only have Windows Defender but it is pretty good)
2. Don't surf to unsafe sites. Your browser will warn you that a site is not safe. take note of that.
3. Never open an email that you don't know anything about and click on an attachment that offers you something good.
4. Don't be tempted to download any old garbage program, simply because it says DOWNLOAD NOW and WIN or whatever.

Oh and BTW -- Back up your information to an offline source. How many times have I asked a customer for a backup and found out they don't do backups. If set up correctly it takes a few seconds to back up the latest changes to your data each day.

That's about it. I have 2 PC's on the internet virtually 24/7 and I have not had any problems. The advice above is good -  I follow those rules.

Regards, Richard
Title: Re: Old Windows 7 question
Post by: Denn on February 19, 2019, 09:06:43 AM
Hello, I have a few computers, one is on Win95, one on 98, both in the workshop, my office desktop is WinXP and my other laptop is WinXP. This laptop is running- and I mean running- Win10. It is an ASUS.
Now for the fun. I got a ransomware somehow not long after I bought this machine so there was not much on it. I held down the start (switch on) button and the escape button and three blue blocks came up. I installed the windows operating system with a full format. WOW! I really did get the full version of Win10. Next was to install Classic Shell, then Malwarebytes. It has been my policy right from my very first computer to have TWO hard drives, one for my programs that can be replaced easily and one for my made files. The “second” H/D on this laptop is a 2Tb portable box on a switchable USB connection. When I go on the web, as I am doing now, I transfer my blurb to my external H/D.
Personally I would have stuck with WinXP but needed other things that would not run on XP, hence Win10. Now I find Win10 is fine, like it a lot. It is the only one that goes on the net.
Moral to the story; 1. Back up your made docs etc. immediately every time. 2. Install a good antivirus and web-blocker. 3. Relax and have fun.
Computers are supposed to work for you NOT you work for them. Take control.
Regards, Denn